Adding CO2 to Optimum Room Ennvironment

[Raw_Dog]

If your grow room has optimum temperatures in flower 70-75 degrees would it be beneficial to add CO2 to the room for maximum environment conditions? I have all my lights vented and automated A/C controlling the temperature of the room. If adding CO2 would benefit my room by 5-10% I would add it. I'm just pursuing an optimum growth environment.

Experienced Growers please respond.

 

[Vegan]

thats the big question isnt it?? most of wha i have read says that optimum co2 usage is at 85 deg, yea mayby in veg!! but i run my room at those same temps you have and i use co2 supplement.. how many % it adds to my final yield i really dont know. i can tell you this once i sealed the room and got co2 controller my yields have gotten better.. ithink it does wonders for veg time and plant health
i dont care for the prices of the controllers but its a hobby and hobbies cost muney

 

[Cali MedPatient]

I find I get about a 30% better yield in a perfect sealed room with CO2 than in a fresh air room with great temps. I also get a much larger electric bill, but it's worth it.

 

[Raw_Dog]

With all the studies and side by side comparisons I would think someone would have done a CO2 perfect environment vs Non CO2 perfect environment. At least co2 (85* room) vs co2 (optimum temps).

 

[Holdin']

I havent done a side by side comparison, considering i only have one sealed room with co2... but i can say that I've tinkered back and forth during veg with temps around optimal, ~75° to ~85°, and i think the plants look much happier with the warmer temps... another benefit being drying out faster between waterings, hence more opportunity to absorb nutes and an improved rootmass all around. One "downside" being that I dont believe that co2 improves anything when it comes to recovering from transplant, trim/top shock etc... but that could just be a biased opinion since ive been accustomed to the co2. As for higher temps during flower... well thats another question that i would love to see answered with a side by side... this round im on will be my first co2 immersion during flower and i think im going to meet in the middle and just flower around 80°. But common sense tells me higher temps in flower even with co2 would affect the density of your buds. But i could be totally wrong. I think we need to see a side by side of two complete grows, start to finish, with the all the same genetics and addition conditions... both with co2 enhancement in a sealed room, but one with "optimal" temps and the other with higher temps. Only problem being finding someone willing with all that space and equip....

 

[Raw_Dog]

My flower room has temps of 68-73* and I produce the most beautiful, dense, colorful, sugar coated, high quality buds. I couldn't image high temps helping my room. I'm not willing to go there I just want to know if I can add CO2 to my immediate situation. High temps without CO2 creates horrible fruit, by experience. So, I love my results, I just want to spoil my plants a little more.

 

[Stonefree69]

And I also agree with spurr (pretty smart, but think banned from lack of social skills and turned Hyde): The facts about CO2 ppm: don't use 1,500! I know you can up the temps into the 80's if you supplement w/CO2. My grow is in a dwelling which might hit 800 ppm with no CO2 added.

 

[youngtrader9689]

i have run sealed for years always dense bud as long as you keep under 86. ive run 1500 ppm co2 at 80 and have noticed a yield improvement with a higher temp.

 

[supermanlives]

adding co2 to a dialed in room is always worth it. anyone should get 5 to 10 percent easilly. more too. alot of peeps have poor ventillation and low co2 levels. when these folks add co2 to a proper room they tend to see the highest yield increases. cause their co2 was low all along. IMHO i dont get 30 percent more when using co2. but i got killer fresh airflow normally . or maybe i am a shitty grower lol

 

[budbasket]

increased temp. speeds up reactions of photosynthetic enzymes within the plant. When you increase the Co2 up to 1200ppm, outside normal atmospheric conditions around 400ppm, the plants able to achieve a higher grow rate. That's why growers see a benefit when adding C02 to also increase the temp. People gotta remember that plants don't grow from nutrients, they grow from the carbon captured out of the atmosphere. Increased carbon, increased biomass. Really simplified answer than the actual processes of what happens in the plant.

 

[Raw_Dog]

Thank you. This is the info I was searching. My apologies for not previously researching the topic but this info was scarce.

 

[farmari]

I keep reading people mention that higher temps are needed to take advantage of CO2 and would love to see the sources for that information as I've not found any scientific literature saying that.

There was a study done on the effects of temperature on photosynthesis with cannabis at intervals of 20C, 25C, 30C, 35C, etc. and photosynthesis peaked at 30C while 25C was not far behind, with 35C third best. (25C=77F, 30C=86F, 35C=95F if I recall right) Search "Photosynthetic response of Cannabis" here on Icmag or the net to find the PDF.

When using higher temps, read a little about vapor pressure deficit... higher temps ideally would come with much higher absolute humidity and higher relative humidity. My completely unqualified interpretation of all this is that low to mid 80s seems ideal, unless you can handle +55% flowering humidity.

On a side note, one neat thing from the study was the photosynthesis rate at different PAR levels. Going from 40K lux to 80k lux (HPS estimate) apparently increases photosynthesis of a leaf by just 30% or so.

 

[Stonefree69]

On a side note, one neat thing from the study was the photosynthesis rate at different PAR levels. Going from 40K lux to 80k lux (HPS estimate) apparently increases photosynthesis of a leaf by just 30% or so.

PAR and Lux (also lumens if you multiply lux by 12.57) are 2 different measurements. PAR is photosynthetically active radiation that the plants actually use and take up. Lux is basically visible light with a lot of green spectrum in there. 80,000 lux (or 80k as you noted) would be about 1 million lumens, not sure if even our solar satellite gets that in space. That's about 100x the amount on a sunny day at noon (10,000 lumens/sq ft). Don't want to get OT, but there is diminishing returns after about 50 watts/sq ft HID or 7,500 or so lumens/sq ft. Plants need at least 3,000 lumens/sq ft. The 30% increase could be about right but for a much lower light level. I'll take that 30% increase too though with proper lighting levels. I would call it diminishing returns at say < 5-10% increase in yield when doubling light output.

 

[farmari]

PAR and Lux (also lumens if you multiply lux by 12.57) are 2 different measurements. PAR is photosynthetically active radiation that the plants actually use and take up. Lux is basically visible light with a lot of green spectrum in there. 80,000 lux (or 80k as you noted) would be about 1 million lumens, not sure if even our solar satellite gets that in space. That's about 100x the amount on a sunny day at noon (10,000 lumens/sq ft). Don't want to get OT, but there is diminishing returns after about 50 watts/sq ft HID or 7,500 or so lumens/sq ft. Plants need at least 3,000 lumens/sq ft. The 30% increase could be about right but for a much lower light level. I'll take that 30% increase too though with proper lighting levels. I would call it diminishing returns at say < 5-10% increase in yield when doubling light output.

I think you're correct on all of that except for the lumens to lux conversion. Midday sun is somewhere around 30k-130k lux according to wikipedia. (wikipedia never lies of course!) At 50w/sqft horizontal my canopy gets around 60k lux according to my light meter, IIRC.

HPS bulbs don't vary too much in terms of their PAR output per watt, and they vary even less in their PAR/lumen ratio. So one can get a pretty accurate estimate of PAR if they know the lux. Anyone can buy a $20 light meter and test for Lux so it makes sense for growers to talk about lumens/lux instead of PAR.

 

[Phillthy]

i run co2 at 1100ppm and i can tell you that any temps above 82 or so have a negative impact on my plants. i find 75-80 optimal.

 

[Stonefree69]

I think you're correct on all of that except for the lumens to lux conversion. Midday sun is somewhere around 30k-130k lux according to wikipedia. (wikipedia never lies of course!) At 50w/sqft horizontal my canopy gets around 60k lux according to my light meter, IIRC.

You're absolutely right farmari, another Wikipedia site on Lumen (unit) I must have misinterpreted conversion: 1 candela = 12.57 lumens. So it does all add up. 80,000 lux converts to 7,432.2 lumens/sq ft. and that's about 50 watts/sq ft of HID (going by 600 watt HPS bulb = 90,000 lumens).

 

[2buds]

I gave up on Co2, got nervous showing up getting that big ass bottle filled often enough the guy started making small talk, plus it looked like I was carrying a missile on my shoulder(aluminum tank). I spend the money on new bulbs more often and find the new bulbs bring out the great density I'm always craving.

 

[Stonefree69]

I'm gonna try a few CO2 Boost Buckets (each good for at 32-64 sq ft) and for very cheap refills you can search this info I've archived:

The Garden Giant Mushroom Patch (King Stropharia)
Mushroom Sawdust Spawn (King Stropharia)
Stropharia Wood Chip SpawnItem #: LCWOSRA
MycoMedia Select Hardwood Chips
Select Hardwood Sawdust
How to Grow King Stropharia Mushrooms (strong CO2 producer) in Your Garden (Video)
The Mushroom Cultivator

Plus an accurate CO2 monitor to see what they're actually putting out. Gonna get some more Reflectix and Orca film 1st.

 

[eyes]

ive always found 80/50 perfect. co2 will def increase your yields. it will also speed up veg plants as well.

 

[Raw_Dog]

I gave up on Co2, got nervous showing up getting that big ass bottle filled often enough the guy started making small talk, plus it looked like I was carrying a missile on my shoulder(aluminum tank). I spend the money on new bulbs more often and find the new bulbs bring out the great density I'm always craving.

You know you could have bought a natural gas burner and ran it from your gas line, no tanks, no heavy lifting... just a bill. Im thinking a propane burner will do the job.