Absorbers Bell Syphon Automated Grow

[greyfader]

@Absorber, howdy! very ingenious system! they say we stoners are lazy! a lot of thinking went into your design.

@Rocket Soul, the need for a chiller depends on the ratio of roots in the solution to the roots permanently out of the solution. i ran roots in the water hydro for about 13 years and needed to cool the water.

in a hybrid system, there's a point where the amount of roots in the water will require the user to use a chiller, but, i don't know the exact point because i never experimented with it to find out.

in my system almost all of the roots are out of the water so the water, for all intents and purposes, could actually be anaerobic and it wouldn't make any difference because the entire system derives all of it's o2 from ambient air, not the solution.

but, because my system doesn't put any bio-demand for o2 on the solution it never becomes anaerobic because of atmospheric partial pressures.

in a system with substantial roots in the water the need for cooling is critical because water holds free o2 molecules at about 68f or 20c quite well. you don't want to go much below that because very cold water temps can suppress growth. temperature is the second most powerful regulator of plant growth after light.

at temperatures above 20c as you increase temps the number of free o2 molecules drops off and at around 85f or 30c most free o2 molecules have left the solution. add a large bio-demand from the plant and you will develop anaerobic bacteria.

my reservoirs run at 30c all the time and i never get root rot because the roots do not live in the solution.

i have friends who have operated the ppk system outdoors in 100f heat with no chillers and no issues.

this is where recirculating, closed-loop systems diverge. roots in the water or roots out of the water.

@Absorber's system is one of the best thought out roots in the water schemes i've ever seen. it just depends on your needs and goals which way to go.

 

[Rocket Soul]

@Absorber, howdy! very ingenious system! they say we stoners are lazy! a lot of thinking went into your design.

@Rocket Soul, the need for a chiller depends on the ratio of roots in the solution to the roots permanently out of the solution. i ran roots in the water hydro for about 13 years and needed to cool the water.

in a hybrid system, there's a point where the amount of roots in the water will require the user to use a chiller, but, i don't know the exact point because i never experimented with it to find out.

in my system almost all of the roots are out of the water so the water, for all intents and purposes, could actually be anaerobic and it wouldn't make any difference because the entire system derives all of it's o2 from ambient air, not the solution.

but, because my system doesn't put any bio-demand for o2 on the solution it never becomes anaerobic because of atmospheric partial pressures.

in a system with substantial roots in the water the need for cooling is critical because water holds free o2 molecules at about 68f or 20c quite well. you don't want to go much below that because very cold water temps can suppress growth. temperature is the second most powerful regulator of plant growth after light.

at temperatures above 20c as you increase temps the number of free o2 molecules drops off and at around 85f or 30c most free o2 molecules have left the solution. add a large bio-demand from the plant and you will develop anaerobic bacteria.

my reservoirs run at 30c all the time and i never get root rot because the roots do not live in the solution.

i have friends who have operated the ppk system outdoors in 100f heat with no chillers and no issues.

this is where recirculating, closed-loop systems diverge. roots in the water or roots out of the water.

@Absorber's system is one of the best thought out roots in the water schemes i've ever seen. it just depends on your needs and goals which way to go.

If i understand it correctly the roots arent in the water permanently; the bucket empties completely but then fills up slowly. Maybe im wrong or too enthusiastic. In any case i thought youd get a kick put of it.

 

[Absorber]

@Absorber, howdy! very ingenious system! they say we stoners are lazy! a lot of thinking went into your design.

@Rocket Soul, the need for a chiller depends on the ratio of roots in the solution to the roots permanently out of the solution. i ran roots in the water hydro for about 13 years and needed to cool the water.

in a hybrid system, there's a point where the amount of roots in the water will require the user to use a chiller, but, i don't know the exact point because i never experimented with it to find out.

in my system almost all of the roots are out of the water so the water, for all intents and purposes, could actually be anaerobic and it wouldn't make any difference because the entire system derives all of it's o2 from ambient air, not the solution.

but, because my system doesn't put any bio-demand for o2 on the solution it never becomes anaerobic because of atmospheric partial pressures.

in a system with substantial roots in the water the need for cooling is critical because water holds free o2 molecules at about 68f or 20c quite well. you don't want to go much below that because very cold water temps can suppress growth. temperature is the second most powerful regulator of plant growth after light.

at temperatures above 20c as you increase temps the number of free o2 molecules drops off and at around 85f or 30c most free o2 molecules have left the solution. add a large bio-demand from the plant and you will develop anaerobic bacteria.

my reservoirs run at 30c all the time and i never get root rot because the roots do not live in the solution.

i have friends who have operated the ppk system outdoors in 100f heat with no chillers and no issues.

this is where recirculating, closed-loop systems diverge. roots in the water or roots out of the water.

@Absorber's system is one of the best thought out roots in the water schemes i've ever seen. it just depends on your needs and goals which way to go.

Thanks for the information and kind words and for popping by

 

[Absorber]

If i understand it correctly the roots arent in the water permanently; the bucket empties completely but then fills up slowly. Maybe im wrong or too enthusiastic. In any case i thought youd get a kick put of it.

You are correct they do empty completly but they also start filling straight away ,i would say the roots are submerged under water more than in air 60/40 kinda thing

 

[Absorber]

i have friends who have operated the ppk system outdoors in 100f heat with no chillers and no issues.

What is a ppk system ?,i may know but im not familiar with the term

 

[greyfader]

the only other thing i would like to add here is that there is a high probability that @Absorber's system can run without a chiller because of the flood and drain nature of it's operation.

you would have to gamble with a crop to find out.

editing to add that this thread about the ppk is a pretty good one to start with;

Something wicked this way comes

this thread is intended to show the "state of the art" ppk plumbing. since i started on this journey more than seven years ago the basic operating principles have remained the same but we have all gone through many iterations of plumbing. most of these, i now realize, were derived from our...

www.icmag.com

 

[Absorber]

the only other thing i would like to add here is that there is a high probability that @Absorber's system can run without a chiller because of the flood and drain nature of it's operation.

you would have to gamble with a crop to find out.

Yea im not that courageous yet
Maybe after a few rotations

 

[Rocket Soul]

What is a ppk system ?,i may know but im not familiar with the term

Its a long story. Youve done sips, right? Its the same idea, but with hydro. But the design of the container, wick and media is to not wick very well. Its actually there to help the water out of the container by removing the so called perched water table: that bit of extra wet media in the bottom of a normal pot. This means its easier to do multiwaterings since the container retains much less water than normal. And if you have a pump failure you still have a kinda sort sump res on the bottom where the plant can draw water from by wicking. Search for PPK here on icmag or just from user Delta9 (greyfaders old handle) profile; go to find all threads started by and have a look. I dont know which thread is best to start with its kinda complicated; there are several refinements of the system.

There are also threads under greyfaders profile, but indont know how much info on the system. Though i seriously rec checking out his latest growlog and the previous phenohunt. Ive never run it but ive tested out the perched water table theory and it checks out completely: same amount of media retained 2/3 of water just by a small modification of the shape of the media inside the pot; just by adding that tailpipe (same as the wick in a SIP).

From what ive seen from users: incredible growth, only complaint was that it was too easy and boring growing when everything was going so perfectly.

Edit : Sorry, GF got it before me.

 

[Absorber]

Its a long story. Youve done sips, right? Its the same idea, but with hydro. But the design of the container, wick and media is to not wick very well. Its actually there to help the water out of the container by removing the so called perched water table: that bit of extra wet media in the bottom of a normal pot. This means its easier to do multiwaterings since the container retains much less water than normal. And if you have a pump failure you still have a kinda sort sump res on the bottom where the plant can draw water from by wicking. Search for PPK here on icmag or just from user Delta9 (greyfaders old handle) profile; go to find all threads started by and have a look. I dont know which thread is best to start with its kinda complicated; there are several refinements of the system.

There are also threads under greyfaders profile, but indont know how much info on the system. Though i seriously rec checking out his latest growlog and the previous phenohunt. Ive never run it but ive tested out the perched water table theory and it checks out completely: same amount of media retained 2/3 of water just by a small modification of the shape of the media inside the pot; just by adding that tailpipe (same as the wick in a SIP).

From what ive seen from users: incredible growth, only complaint was that it was too easy and boring growing when everything was going so perfectly.

Edit : Sorry, GF got it before me.

editing to add that this thread about the ppk is a pretty good one to start with;

Thankyou to you both i just found one of greyfader's threads that explained it for me .
Interesting setup indeed .

 

[Porky82]

Yea im not that courageous yet
Maybe after a few rotations

Ya got 2 tents don't ya??

 

[Absorber]

Ya got 2 tents don't ya??

Yea but both run off same resevoir

 

[Absorber]

This is one mars product after a slight modification that suits my grow style,
I 3d printed the puck holders for it so i can use it without a basket and medium that they supply so its an easy transition from the hydroline to my grow set up in my tent .

My cuttings first start life in the bubbler till they get roots then they are placed in the hydroline until im ready for them .

The white cyclic timer you can see is the trick to the bubbler working it turns the pump on for 6 sec every 10min to encourage root growth last batch i did in summer took 6 days to get roots . Im currently in winter and this will slow the process of them rooting a little bit .

 

[Absorber]

Just tidying up a few things , 3d printed a powerboard holder that clips to the tent pole.