A5 S1 test Thread
- Thread starter THC123
- Start date
Okay, I was just about to go water them so good timing!
I kept them at 6-12 inches because thats what the manufacturer said.
I did not realize this would be too much (or even the 2-3 inches I can run at 25 degrees) because I thought sunlight was much stronger than any LED. I know it is recommended to give them only 100-300 micromol when they are small, and now they were getting the full 500. But in the sun they always go well even when the sun shines at it's brightest. SO I thought that they could take it. I did not see any external signs apart from the slow veg. Thanks for the tip KG
And as you know and probably can tell I am an outdoor grower. I am forced into growing indoor now because then I can use filters (new anti weed nazi neighbours). It has been 3 years ago since my last indoor hehe. I have to adjust to indoor again...
But don't worry, I'll fix the issue so I can do your babies justice!
Maybe I'll come visit once it is dried and cured
I kept them at 6-12 inches because thats what the manufacturer said.
I did not realize this would be too much (or even the 2-3 inches I can run at 25 degrees) because I thought sunlight was much stronger than any LED. I know it is recommended to give them only 100-300 micromol when they are small, and now they were getting the full 500. But in the sun they always go well even when the sun shines at it's brightest. SO I thought that they could take it. I did not see any external signs apart from the slow veg. Thanks for the tip KG
And as you know and probably can tell I am an outdoor grower. I am forced into growing indoor now because then I can use filters (new anti weed nazi neighbours). It has been 3 years ago since my last indoor hehe. I have to adjust to indoor again...
But don't worry, I'll fix the issue so I can do your babies justice!
Maybe I'll come visit once it is dried and cured
I did some more research on the fluence website and I found a usefull chart (still need to get used to growing with leds coming from HPS and the Sun).
It states that the light should even be farther away untill the seedlings start growing vigoriously. They say 60 cm distance so that I have about 250 micromol. And then very slowly over the course of the weeks lower the lamp more and more.
Wish I had this info sooner. Today they are already looking much happier and fresh !!!
It states that the light should even be farther away untill the seedlings start growing vigoriously. They say 60 cm distance so that I have about 250 micromol. And then very slowly over the course of the weeks lower the lamp more and more.
Wish I had this info sooner. Today they are already looking much happier and fresh !!!
Welcome Doc!
Small update part 1
After raising the lights to 32 inches (60 cm) they were a bit happier but still not like they should.(I kept the light REALLY close in the beginning, even less than 6 inches cuz the lights operated so cool, almost like a TL tube....)
I then consulted a chart in some article hidden on the fluence website and I put my lights at about 36 inches so they get a 180 PPFD. Once they will pick u size a bit I will slowly (very slowly) put the lights lower again.
Since I did this, they started growing normally again and especially the A5 seems to have woken up. The yellow coloration that I thought was due to a too hot soil is slowly dissapearing and the leaves are turning green and they are starting to look normal.
I suspect in one week the A5's will be recovered.
Still it is a shame that this grow had to start in such a bad way.....
On the plusside, the seedlings are still growing, no signs of elongation or flowering so hopefully they can still become something beautiful. If I find a keeper pheno, I will defintely do a second run now that I am figuring out how to work with these lights.
Here a re some pics
The ones with plastic color labels are the A5 cross, the others a5
As you can see the new shoots are slowly starting to look normal. Not paperthin and pale like the older leaves. The a5 have not yet recovered but they are slowly getting there, they are waking up after being blinded by the light.
Small update part 1
After raising the lights to 32 inches (60 cm) they were a bit happier but still not like they should.(I kept the light REALLY close in the beginning, even less than 6 inches cuz the lights operated so cool, almost like a TL tube....)
I then consulted a chart in some article hidden on the fluence website and I put my lights at about 36 inches so they get a 180 PPFD. Once they will pick u size a bit I will slowly (very slowly) put the lights lower again.
Since I did this, they started growing normally again and especially the A5 seems to have woken up. The yellow coloration that I thought was due to a too hot soil is slowly dissapearing and the leaves are turning green and they are starting to look normal.
I suspect in one week the A5's will be recovered.
Still it is a shame that this grow had to start in such a bad way.....
On the plusside, the seedlings are still growing, no signs of elongation or flowering so hopefully they can still become something beautiful. If I find a keeper pheno, I will defintely do a second run now that I am figuring out how to work with these lights.
Here a re some pics
The ones with plastic color labels are the A5 cross, the others a5
As you can see the new shoots are slowly starting to look normal. Not paperthin and pale like the older leaves. The a5 have not yet recovered but they are slowly getting there, they are waking up after being blinded by the light.
Update part 2
The retarded A5 is also still alive lol, I will leave her to do her thing lol
And here the A5 x HPH x Skunk (all plants with plastic label in pots are the cross)
These plants are a lot stronger, they were able to take the PPFD abuse and are simply growing at a normal rate now and looking healthier than before
Normally by this time all plants should have looked like this one regarding size......
And here a lonely Killer a5. This one did not have all this abuse and is growing normally from the start. It took some of the other plants almost 10-14 days to get to this point under the PPFD abuse.
The IPM strategy of coating the pots with petroleum jelly(vaseline) is working. I have seen may mites stuck in there. For the moment I am treating the plants with a garlic spray. I have also put another plant(not cannabis) in the corner of the tent. This plants is not treated with garlic. Theoretically the mites should prefer the untreated plant and focus on the plant and leave the cannabis alone.
I have also coated the sides of the tent in this jelly so that the bugs have a hard time getting to the plants.
As soon as they are bigger I will release predators.
In the meantime, I treat my plants with garlic 2 times per week. I also spray the undersides of the leaves daily with a strong sprayer to annoy those mites as much as I can. This really slows them down and they are not really an issue.
Can't wait to set those green lacewing larvae loose!!
The retarded A5 is also still alive lol, I will leave her to do her thing lol
And here the A5 x HPH x Skunk (all plants with plastic label in pots are the cross)
These plants are a lot stronger, they were able to take the PPFD abuse and are simply growing at a normal rate now and looking healthier than before
Normally by this time all plants should have looked like this one regarding size......
And here a lonely Killer a5. This one did not have all this abuse and is growing normally from the start. It took some of the other plants almost 10-14 days to get to this point under the PPFD abuse.
The IPM strategy of coating the pots with petroleum jelly(vaseline) is working. I have seen may mites stuck in there. For the moment I am treating the plants with a garlic spray. I have also put another plant(not cannabis) in the corner of the tent. This plants is not treated with garlic. Theoretically the mites should prefer the untreated plant and focus on the plant and leave the cannabis alone.
I have also coated the sides of the tent in this jelly so that the bugs have a hard time getting to the plants.
As soon as they are bigger I will release predators.
In the meantime, I treat my plants with garlic 2 times per week. I also spray the undersides of the leaves daily with a strong sprayer to annoy those mites as much as I can. This really slows them down and they are not really an issue.
Can't wait to set those green lacewing larvae loose!!
Update part 1
Hi guys,
I have been watching the plants a lot these last day checking for signs of flowering or elongation and they still look 100% in veg (which is normal).
Next monday 4 weeks will have passed.
For me this grow (apart from taking care of the plants) is almost like growing for the first time. I have to learn how to work with the leds in the most efficient way.
I fucked up the start of the grow with an insane amount of PPFD. This has caused stunted and slow growth and in the A5 lightburn.
From the viewpoint of this being a testrun it is however nice to see (well not for me but for the data on the testrun for KG) that the HPH x Skunk x A5 can take punishment much better than the A5 s1.
The a5 cross also grew a lot slower than I am used to with seedlings, but overall at least they stayed green and are growing into their pot with nice big new growth.
The a5 are recovering with new green shoots. However, all the yellow leaves and leaves with yellow spots are fucked. They will never get green so at this moment they are really inefficient for the plant to use for photosynthesis.
So the A5 still look like they are in small pots. With the new normal growth, things will pick up.
The Killer A5 never had this punishment and she is growing at a normal rate and within 10 days she realized she was in a big pot and she is a nice big fast growing vigorious verdant green seedling, just like I am used to.
So this got me thinking....I never did this before, because I know it will probably mess with the plants and might even cause hermafrodites.
But I have never ever flowered plants that were as sad as my tortured A5 babies. They need more time to recover. Before they flower I want them to have a few sets of normal leaves. I also want to see them grow into the size of their pots with big new growth.
They are still all very much in a vegetative state, even on 12/12.
I would like to change the timer to 18/6 Or 16/8 so that they will keep vegging some more.
Pros:
- the a5 will get a chance to get healthy and grow into nice plants.
- Valuable data for KG regarding stress factors (too high ppfd and inconsistent light cycles)
- The killer a5 also will be able to grow a bit more.
Cons:
- might cause hermies (to be honest I don't care that much and I can always take cuts for a next run, I vape so a few seeds don't bother me an i can test terp profile and effects)
- the A5 cross might get too big (12 plants on 5*5 in 5 gal). This could be solved with training and pruning.
Even though yield is not really important I don't want to flower unhealthy plants......
Before I do a direct 12/12 from seed again, I will first learn how to grow well with the Fluence...
So Icmag and KG, what do you say??? Yay or Nay? And why?
Here are some pics so you can see what I mean:
A5 cross they all look very similar-->
The cross is growing nice and compact, even with the lights now 90 cm away (last week it was 105 cm). No stretch due to distance to lights and no flowering elongation.
The light is 90 cm away now, I am really very very slowly doing photo acclimatization cuz of the damaged a5 plants. I could do it faster with the other plants but I can't risk fucking the a5 up more.
They get about 180-200 PPFD now. I know they would need more but the a5 can't take a too sudden increase at the moment.
They were also slower veggers than normal due to high ppfd but they are still okay, wouldn't mind if these would start flowering. They look healthy enough and will revive completely over the next weeks!!
And here the a5 plants, the newest shoots are almost looking normal, here and there still yellow tip:
This one is the greenes of them all. The yellow tips are not due to nutrients but due to the lights. It looks similar. Also the green isn't really green, especially the older leaves. More greyish, not healthy.
Hi guys,
I have been watching the plants a lot these last day checking for signs of flowering or elongation and they still look 100% in veg (which is normal).
Next monday 4 weeks will have passed.
For me this grow (apart from taking care of the plants) is almost like growing for the first time. I have to learn how to work with the leds in the most efficient way.
I fucked up the start of the grow with an insane amount of PPFD. This has caused stunted and slow growth and in the A5 lightburn.
From the viewpoint of this being a testrun it is however nice to see (well not for me but for the data on the testrun for KG) that the HPH x Skunk x A5 can take punishment much better than the A5 s1.
The a5 cross also grew a lot slower than I am used to with seedlings, but overall at least they stayed green and are growing into their pot with nice big new growth.
The a5 are recovering with new green shoots. However, all the yellow leaves and leaves with yellow spots are fucked. They will never get green so at this moment they are really inefficient for the plant to use for photosynthesis.
So the A5 still look like they are in small pots. With the new normal growth, things will pick up.
The Killer A5 never had this punishment and she is growing at a normal rate and within 10 days she realized she was in a big pot and she is a nice big fast growing vigorious verdant green seedling, just like I am used to.
So this got me thinking....I never did this before, because I know it will probably mess with the plants and might even cause hermafrodites.
But I have never ever flowered plants that were as sad as my tortured A5 babies. They need more time to recover. Before they flower I want them to have a few sets of normal leaves. I also want to see them grow into the size of their pots with big new growth.
They are still all very much in a vegetative state, even on 12/12.
I would like to change the timer to 18/6 Or 16/8 so that they will keep vegging some more.
Pros:
- the a5 will get a chance to get healthy and grow into nice plants.
- Valuable data for KG regarding stress factors (too high ppfd and inconsistent light cycles)
- The killer a5 also will be able to grow a bit more.
Cons:
- might cause hermies (to be honest I don't care that much and I can always take cuts for a next run, I vape so a few seeds don't bother me an i can test terp profile and effects)
- the A5 cross might get too big (12 plants on 5*5 in 5 gal). This could be solved with training and pruning.
Even though yield is not really important I don't want to flower unhealthy plants......
Before I do a direct 12/12 from seed again, I will first learn how to grow well with the Fluence...
So Icmag and KG, what do you say??? Yay or Nay? And why?
Here are some pics so you can see what I mean:
A5 cross they all look very similar-->
The cross is growing nice and compact, even with the lights now 90 cm away (last week it was 105 cm). No stretch due to distance to lights and no flowering elongation.
The light is 90 cm away now, I am really very very slowly doing photo acclimatization cuz of the damaged a5 plants. I could do it faster with the other plants but I can't risk fucking the a5 up more.
They get about 180-200 PPFD now. I know they would need more but the a5 can't take a too sudden increase at the moment.
They were also slower veggers than normal due to high ppfd but they are still okay, wouldn't mind if these would start flowering. They look healthy enough and will revive completely over the next weeks!!
And here the a5 plants, the newest shoots are almost looking normal, here and there still yellow tip:
This one is the greenes of them all. The yellow tips are not due to nutrients but due to the lights. It looks similar. Also the green isn't really green, especially the older leaves. More greyish, not healthy.
Update part 2
Even the lower shoots of one are still completely yellow. Untill there are new green shoots they will keep on growing slow.
And here the only normal plant in the tent, the Killer a5
Only had 2-3 days of high ppfd and at that time she still ahd the seed husk on. This is the only healthy green plant in the tent. Her new shoots and even the first leaves are already almost bigger than the one from the a5 even though she is younger. The leaves and roots are connected so the a5's root system isn't properly developped cuz the yellow leaves can't do photosynthesis properly... I have been waiting 15 years to grow the a5 so I really want them to be healthy before they flower.
Can't wait to start a new grow with these lights now that I am slowly getting used to them. They are great lights, but because "i had experience" I did not research properly how to use them....oops. Serves me right
Even the lower shoots of one are still completely yellow. Untill there are new green shoots they will keep on growing slow.
And here the only normal plant in the tent, the Killer a5
Only had 2-3 days of high ppfd and at that time she still ahd the seed husk on. This is the only healthy green plant in the tent. Her new shoots and even the first leaves are already almost bigger than the one from the a5 even though she is younger. The leaves and roots are connected so the a5's root system isn't properly developped cuz the yellow leaves can't do photosynthesis properly... I have been waiting 15 years to grow the a5 so I really want them to be healthy before they flower.
Can't wait to start a new grow with these lights now that I am slowly getting used to them. They are great lights, but because "i had experience" I did not research properly how to use them....oops. Serves me right
I think you'll be alright. They're coming back already and you've got a lot to work with. The same thing just happened a month or two back in a Chimera thread. 12" flour. vs. 12" led are pretty different.
Clones: 110 umol (fluence or otherwise)
Seeds w/ fluorescent light: I roll closer to 400 umol and 6-12"
Seeds w/ proper LED: 200-250, at least two to three feet like you said earlier.
Clones: 110 umol (fluence or otherwise)
Seeds w/ fluorescent light: I roll closer to 400 umol and 6-12"
Seeds w/ proper LED: 200-250, at least two to three feet like you said earlier.
I wish a quick recovery!
Can´t wait to see some flowers!
I´d veg a bit longer, till the roots have buid up more extensivley and prune or super crop the bigger plants, if they get too big...I don´t think that at this stage of flowering there would be hermis, if you turn back to 18/6...
Peace
Ace
Can´t wait to see some flowers!
I´d veg a bit longer, till the roots have buid up more extensivley and prune or super crop the bigger plants, if they get too big...I don´t think that at this stage of flowering there would be hermis, if you turn back to 18/6...
Peace
Ace
Last edited:
Hi Ace!!
Yeah I was thinking exactly the same thing. I have switched them back to 18/6 yesterday and I will do pruning, LST and topping.
I hope that within 14 days or so they are recovered!!!
Probably will have to remove a lot of good and usefull growth from the a5 cross to make sure there is enough room in the tent for all 12 plants once they get bigger. If needed I'll competely remove branches. I think that the a5 cross, if it grows 2 more weeks, will be enough to mostly fill the entire 5*5 tent with 6 plants. Even though the leaves are pretty wide, with the HPH and A5 in there, I expect 3-5 timer increase with a big internodal stretch in size plus taking into account the fact that they are seedlings.
Yeah I was thinking exactly the same thing. I have switched them back to 18/6 yesterday and I will do pruning, LST and topping.
I hope that within 14 days or so they are recovered!!!
Probably will have to remove a lot of good and usefull growth from the a5 cross to make sure there is enough room in the tent for all 12 plants once they get bigger. If needed I'll competely remove branches. I think that the a5 cross, if it grows 2 more weeks, will be enough to mostly fill the entire 5*5 tent with 6 plants. Even though the leaves are pretty wide, with the HPH and A5 in there, I expect 3-5 timer increase with a big internodal stretch in size plus taking into account the fact that they are seedlings.
Everybody including myself need to remember that pushing Sativa's will most likely result in some type of problems. When they are given patience they shine the most.
I dimmed the new LED even at 2' above canopy as I think I am just beginning to see a slight deficiency due to the light intensity, not much and its showing more on the NH but some of that might be due to the uprooting and up potting as some were sharing pots.
Get a couple branches starting and flip them. They will continue to grow. I am mostly worried about feeding too much but they are doing fine right now. I had N burn when I first ran my OTH so I am trying to start out low and watch for them to respond.
Nevil said that These long Hazes can be topped even in 12/12 and will keep right on going, he was encouraging that. I plan to flip once I top them as the NH are going to need to start the journey.
Best
LT
Yeah you are right, I am taking it real slow now.
a few days ago I put the light 15 cm lower, from 105 cm to 90 and after 3 days I saw that it was too much as I started seeing them yellow more again, so now the light is at 120 cm (48 inches) and it stays there untill the a5 are totally green and healthy.
I thought seedlings could easily take 150-250 PPFD, according to the lightchart from fluence I am at 139 ppfd atm.
Of course the 2 weeks of abuse made the plants weaker probably so that is why they are so sensitive now.
The A5 cross has been topped. I only left 2 nodes with good branches and I will train them horiziontally.
For the rest I removed the freaky A5 runt and put it in a small pot and into the motherroom. I replaced it with a trimmed down White Jones x GG3 motherplant. I didn't had time to germ an extra seed and I want to see what she does indoors.
a few days ago I put the light 15 cm lower, from 105 cm to 90 and after 3 days I saw that it was too much as I started seeing them yellow more again, so now the light is at 120 cm (48 inches) and it stays there untill the a5 are totally green and healthy.
I thought seedlings could easily take 150-250 PPFD, according to the lightchart from fluence I am at 139 ppfd atm.
Of course the 2 weeks of abuse made the plants weaker probably so that is why they are so sensitive now.
The A5 cross has been topped. I only left 2 nodes with good branches and I will train them horiziontally.
For the rest I removed the freaky A5 runt and put it in a small pot and into the motherroom. I replaced it with a trimmed down White Jones x GG3 motherplant. I didn't had time to germ an extra seed and I want to see what she does indoors.
What's your PPM going in and PPM going out?
Ran into another issue today ugh,
I installed a humidifier because RH was 30-40%. It makes hot vapor. I have put it in a corner of the 5 x 5 tent just under the oscillating fan.
I also raised temps a bit so now I am at 24-25 degrees and 60% RH which should be fine. Before it was 21-22 and 30-40% RH. This change happened gradually over 5-6 hours.
Since I did this 8 hours ago, I came to have a look and I see the leaf tips of the a5 curling up. This is normally due to heat or too high RH.
But the readings on the meter are fine.
Could it be that because the humidifier is inside the tent, that it is too much, too aggressive?
Lights are almost out now but tomorrow I will place the humidifier outside the tent...But then the RH probably won't rise as much.
Does anyone have any usefull tips for this? Never had a problem with this before.
I installed a humidifier because RH was 30-40%. It makes hot vapor. I have put it in a corner of the 5 x 5 tent just under the oscillating fan.
I also raised temps a bit so now I am at 24-25 degrees and 60% RH which should be fine. Before it was 21-22 and 30-40% RH. This change happened gradually over 5-6 hours.
Since I did this 8 hours ago, I came to have a look and I see the leaf tips of the a5 curling up. This is normally due to heat or too high RH.
But the readings on the meter are fine.
Could it be that because the humidifier is inside the tent, that it is too much, too aggressive?
Lights are almost out now but tomorrow I will place the humidifier outside the tent...But then the RH probably won't rise as much.
Does anyone have any usefull tips for this? Never had a problem with this before.
I was getting real sick and tired with these miserable suffering plants. So I bought a dimmer for the light today. It was 99 euros but now I can at least control the light intensity.
I will do an update tomorrow, but let's just say they don't look happy. That should change soon, they are finally getting a break. Even a mom of mine that had been under 250 MH an V600 viparspectra for months with a well established root system couldn't take it at 120 cm distance.
I will do an update tomorrow, but let's just say they don't look happy. That should change soon, they are finally getting a break. Even a mom of mine that had been under 250 MH an V600 viparspectra for months with a well established root system couldn't take it at 120 cm distance.
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