A Tribute to JonJaffer - 4K Vertical PVC Stadium

[GMax]

yeah mediumless is so awesome- easy clean up and little after harvest trash, gotta love it

i reuse all the neoprene in my systems, after harvest i just give them a nice scrub with bleach water and toothbrush, never had to buy new ones cause they are costly

each one of my neoprenes has seen 5+ crops...hope this helps

looking great k+

 

[Squire5683]

Cheeb.... Any updates? Im currently building my 8" System like yours.

 

[SumDumGuy]

WOW!! Subscribed !

 

[Canada]

I know ehhh

 

[Cheeb]

Thanks for the interest all.

Here we are about 9-10 days later. Came to find this madness. LemGs on left have totally exploded meanwhile the EWs on the right not so much. My buddy apparently did a bit of de-leafing on the right so its hard for me to know what they looked like before this. I'm not sure why he decided to do this without running it by me 1st - supposed to only be checking EC/pH and overall keeping an eye on em... I personally would have waited until 1 week into bloom to do this heavy of a pruning, but then again I didn't even get a chance to see them 1st.

However I do think they may have been generally smaller and not as lush and bushy so I'm not really putting any fault anywhere. I believe its more genetic then anything and apparently these 2 varieties might not be the best to run together. Next round will 100% make sure to have enough clones to fill the entire system with 1 strain.

Hopefully 1 more week veg will allow the right side to catch up with the left. I'll thin out the left heavily and hope for as much uniformity and canopy fill as possible on the right. I do fear that if I let it go too long the left will outgrow me during the stretch and I'll have a wild jungle on my hands with bare bulbs hanging around. Might get ugly.

Lemme know what you guys think. I'm not familiar enough with these strains yet, but I believe the lemG (on left) likes to stretch a lot.

Everything seen is only 2000w, turned a 3rd bulb on today so we are on 3000w now. Need to get my ass back over there with a capacitor and get the 4th light turned on.

During the last week they sucked down some nutes and I think we experienced a bit of deficiency (orange spots on lower leaves). EC got drank/diluted to around .4 and pH had to be near 6.5. Added back to get 1.4 EC so I'm sure they'll like that. Will bump to 1.6 - 1.8EC as I flip to bloom sometime next week. I thought it was mites at 1st, but think its merely underfed while having a tad high pH.

I do need to get a 3/4" valve asap to choke down the flow some and direct it back into the reservoir. Left tubes water level is really high and I worry it'll spill out of the pipe where the plants sit as flow is slowed due to so much root growth. I dont think I'm necessarily worried about clogging my 2" PVC overflows, but merely have a bit too large of a pump in the 1st place.

gotta root shot here somewhere..brb




Praying and hoping this 1st run is as successful as a 1st run can be. Definitely need to prolly start popping in more then once a week, and told the "live-in eye keeper" to leave em alone for now - just watch and enjoy.

You can see the MAX 14" (1700CFM) in the back sitting on a MAX Filter (2500cfm). Moves an ass ton of air and hardly makes any noise. Poly'd over that opening back there so the room now has good negative pressure drawing air from the outside fresh air intake.

later

Canada, welcome to ICMAG. I see your 1st and 2nd posts here happen to be in this thread.

 

[~Shhh~]

That's looking good mate, I remember john jaffer from OG and this set up always wanted to try it myself. I'll be following to see how you get on

 

[Canada]

Thanks for the interest all.

Here we are about 9-10 days later. Came to find this madness. LemGs on left have totally exploded meanwhile the EWs on the right not so much. My buddy apparently did a bit of de-leafing on the right so its hard for me to know what they looked like before this. I'm not sure why he decided to do this without running it by me 1st - supposed to only be checking EC/pH and overall keeping an eye on em... I personally would have waited until 1 week into bloom to do this heavy of a pruning, but then again I didn't even get a chance to see them 1st.

However I do think they may have been generally smaller and not as lush and bushy so I'm not really putting any fault anywhere. I believe its more genetic then anything and apparently these 2 varieties might not be the best to run together. Next round will 100% make sure to have enough clones to fill the entire system with 1 strain.

Hopefully 1 more week veg will allow the right side to catch up with the left. I'll thin out the left heavily and hope for as much uniformity and canopy fill as possible on the right. I do fear that if I let it go too long the left will outgrow me during the stretch and I'll have a wild jungle on my hands with bare bulbs hanging around. Might get ugly.

Lemme know what you guys think. I'm not familiar enough with these strains yet, but I believe the lemG (on left) likes to stretch a lot.

Everything seen is only 2000w, turned a 3rd bulb on today so we are on 3000w now. Need to get my ass back over there with a capacitor and get the 4th light turned on.

During the last week they sucked down some nutes and I think we experienced a bit of deficiency (orange spots on lower leaves). EC got drank/diluted to around .4 and pH had to be near 6.5. Added back to get 1.4 EC so I'm sure they'll like that. Will bump to 1.6 - 1.8EC as I flip to bloom sometime next week. I thought it was mites at 1st, but think its merely underfed while having a tad high pH.

I do need to get a 3/4" valve asap to choke down the flow some and direct it back into the reservoir. Left tubes water level is really high and I worry it'll spill out of the pipe where the plants sit as flow is slowed due to so much root growth. I dont think I'm necessarily worried about clogging my 2" PVC overflows, but merely have a bit too large of a pump in the 1st place.

gotta root shot here somewhere..brb




Praying and hoping this 1st run is as successful as a 1st run can be. Definitely need to prolly start popping in more then once a week, and told the "live-in eye keeper" to leave em alone for now - just watch and enjoy.

You can see the MAX 14" (1700CFM) in the back sitting on a MAX Filter (2500cfm). Moves an ass ton of air and hardly makes any noise. Poly'd over that opening back there so the room now has good negative pressure drawing air from the outside fresh air intake.

later

Canada, welcome to ICMAG. I see your 1st and 2nd posts here happen to be in this thread.

Hey yea this is excatly what I was looking for a vertical section. Plants look pretty dam good so far good luck hope all goes sound for you on this grow . You may see somthing along the same lines from myself one day soon

 

[Weird]

awesome application

 

[Cheeb]

Here we are now...stripped em down a little. They are drinking like crazy causing my EC to plummet as they are auto topped/diluted with RO. Need to start adding back nutes more often then once a week.

Tomorrow will be 1st day of 12hr darkness.

I have ran into a bit of a problem. I lost an entire healthy plant to my decision to go 100% mediumless. When I initially put these clones in the neoprene they were longer clones and most touched the bottom of my net pot. Because of this and the lack of busting bubbles like a traditional SWC system the majority of my root system developed below the netpot rather then anchoring into the bottom & sides of the cup as I've had previous success with. I now realize its super important on how the clones are "wedged" into the neoprene as they start to develop.

While I have an assload of roots below the cup they lack good connection to the trunk of the plant. The plant got top heavy and ripped itself away from its root mass. A major weak link in my method here. Going to have to trellis them ASAP. A V shape from ceiling to floor.

I dont think this mediumless technique is the fault of this.. I just planted them too low in the neoprene. Might toss some stones under each plant in this system's future smaller veg stadium...as well as start them higher wedged in the neoprene. I need initial trunck/root growth to grow INTO my net cup - not below it. These clones were not heavily rooted from my buddies aero cloner, but just had a few main roots coming off the stems. I think having very well rooted aeroponic cuts before going into the system would have did a lot to prevent this.

Hydroton would have just been the easier answer here, but thats no fun!

Now I have a big ol' gap in our canopy. Dammit. Hopefully the stretch will fill it in.

Definitely have to trellis them asap before more tragedies occur and hoping things dont stretch way out of control. Should be fun from here on out - or it'll be a total disaster. lol

Still on 3000w right now.

 

[Squire5683]

Cheeb... my build is dragging ass... I have all my parts, just no time to build... Your pics and posts are making my mouth water!! Ill be up and running almost identical to your setup. Just a couple of questions..
No Hydroton? Any reason? I was planning on 3" netpots, a little hydroton, and neoprene discs to seal the light.
Do you aerate your rez
And finally, how much water sits in your tubes, or are your drains all the way to bottom?

Sorry for posting questions that you might have written, but I have a hangover and my brain doesnt like me looking at this screen very long ..lol

Awesome grow, and good luck!!

 

[Securityfirst]

A trellis huh? If I were you I would build an over head support system made out of wood and use plant yo yo's. Are you going to use anything like bushmaster or phosphoload to control the stretch? It seems like a bit of phosphoload at week 3 would help them to stretch less and bush out sideways more. Just my 2 cents

Looking good.

 

[Hrpuffnkush]

Awesome job!! it all looks Great Plants look very healthy too .. Great job!

 

[Suomi-Prkl]

great looking system, just waiting for the budshots now!!

 

[Cheeb]

thanks!

Squire5683,

Cant wait to see it man. I havn't seen anyone post anything online like this since JonJaffer in the OG days.

No hydroton here - just because I wanted to try eliminating it from my life completely, but by all means use Hydroton. It'd be a small amount of hydroton so its really not a huge deal and would have prevented the issues I'm seeing now. I kinda shot myself in the foot on this one, but will know what to correct next time. (see previous post about that)

Other then the waterfall effect back into my res I do not further aerate. Its a good 3-4" drop creating a lot of DO.

Water was about half way up the pipe. My 2" overflows where installed 3/4 up the end cap. Now with root mass water is higher, but dont think it'll overflow as my drains are 2".

I do have something I need to fix to correct flow and further prevent risk of overflow. Where my eyebolts go into my tubes the excess threads stick down directly infront of my overflow allowing roots to tangle and hang up there - rather then just ride the current down the 2" overflow pipe. Will cut excess thread after harvest when system is empty.

-

Security,

I was thinking that too, but this room has a perfectly textured drywalled ceiling and I dont really want to be driving anymore screws, hooks, etc into it. I'm not happy about the holes I had to put into it to hang tubes/light bar. Its just more to fix should we have to leave.

I've got an idea in my head on how I'd like to trellis it, but may play with some retractable yo-yos too if I can get em. My local shop is out of them right now. Hoping to just trellis and not have to deal with individual colas.

Not sure about phosphoload - I'd like to avoid if possible, but it may be come in handy. I always feel like I put myself at risk of bud rot - even at a low dose of 1-2 ml per gal. Also - I have no idea how much water I'm running here.

I do think my tubes need to be closer - eliminating the gap below the bulbs (I dont think I'll be able to fill it)...

I have a feeling my stadium will be more of a high U shape rather then the deep V cut I'm looking for - if that makes any sense to any of you. I think I want the 2 sides brought in closer as well as maybe a steeper step from lower pipe to upper pipe.. but again..I've already hung and made some holes in the ceiling and dont want to make more.

In future more permanent applications it would be awesome to devise some type of track system above where I can move the tubes inward and outward, ect at will. I'd also love to see a long version of this system. I had to have these 8" pipes cut down at the plumbing yard...they are normally 20ft long. A few 20ft 7-8 light stadiums would make a wicked small warehouse op. Just tossing that idea out there for all you lucky CA people.

so...I'll be waiting on a couch invite anytime after Nov 3rd! Midwest kid wants to come out.


Budshots around the corner...

 

[fredflintstoned]

I know I'm real late to the party, but:
Does anyone have any insight on how far part I should place my 2 bottom rows.. and how far up and out I should hang my upper outer tube?
And how far does northern farmer space his 1K bulbs from one another down the middle?
Bottom rows are 22in apart and light spacing is 30in.
I've been running a couple of NFR stadiums for a few years now and must say this idea is the answer to my prayers. Hand watering a full stadium every day really blows dog!
NFR ran about 220 plants per, I've worked out a way to use three levels with bigger plants and 600W lamps. For height between rows, I use the minimum possible(12in). The minor lollypop on the next level adds another 4-5in clearance. With an 8in tall 2gal bag, I can usually avoid a lot of shading. Set back of the next level up is also at a minimum. Just enough to clear the stem of the lower plant. In my case, about 5in. Tall and steep is the name of the game here. I'll be interested to see how the trellis works out.
I'm hoping your yield numbers are way beyond mine. It'll give me the final kick in the ass to make the switch.
Fred

 

[Jbonez]

I actually find that root porn sexy. God i need to get a life, do you use h2o2? I do, keeps my roots uber white, but i keep my temps in check as well.

 

[Bob Smith]

Great looking system, stoked to see it up and running.

 

[Cheeb]

Thanks for the replies all!

Fred, thanks for that info on the spacing. Might have to adjust some things depending on how things fill in and yield.

Jbonez,

No h202 is used, but I wouldnt disagree with it. Its a temporary way to add oxygen to the system and whiten up the roots. I'm partial to a product called Dutch Master ZONE to keep things sterile. Its choramine product that keeps everything really clean and sterile when used only at 1mL per Gallon. I've used it in the past w/ a clear reservoir and did not get any nasties forming.

Unfortunately this system I have no idea how much water I'm dealing with so it'd be hard for me to use additives at proper doses. Right now I just add maxibloom and test with my truncheon EC meter until I hit my desired EC. (1.6 - 2.0EC)

More pics tomorrow night.

 

[Bob Smith]

Cheeb, did you use panda over the PVC more as a preventative to keep it cool or as a way to stop light from entering?

Just build a DIY coliseum out of wyes and haven't quite figured out if the PVC is opaque or not.

Thanks.

 

[Cheeb]

Bob,

In regards to the poly saddles.
I'd say both. I believe JonJaffer did this as I think he mentioned a small amount of light was penetrating the pipe. His pvc was however some lighter colored green stuff if I recall so I'm not sure if it'd matter either way. Looks nice anyway...could most likely be eliminated to keep it as minimal as possible.

Maintain a sterile system by using zone @ 1ml per gallon or h202 (dosed periodically) should keep things algea free. Keeping water temps below 68F makes it virtually impossible for nasties to thrive and may not even require the above additives. I think you'll be fine as long as you dont let water temps break 72-73 MAX!..even if your gear isnt 100% light proof.