A question for the growers using Jacks 5-12-26

[Treetroit City]

Hey man. Sorry I never got back in here.
I'm no pro. So take it all with a grain of salt.

I feed everytime with promix... unless I'm out of solution and time.. then I'll hit gen with a little water till he next time I get in there

Rykus has good info in his thread about "flushing" and not giving plain water... I.e flush with 200 ppm. By going back and forth btw water and food you are doing a feast and famine wherein ph will be all over and plants get stressed

I do promix hp with cut in half with chunky perlite.

Chimera has a good promix thread. The overall consensus is that 6.8 is ideal. Worked fine for me.


I am in tap @ bout 220ppm 7.3. Ur high ph is curious for lower ppm

My mix always swings up. So in my last run of promix I went with 6.5 and let it swing.
Honestly don't worry about runoff. It won't be that accurate.

I have fed at 1.0 during flower. The plants slowly yellowed the whole time. But the yield was awesome as well as quality.

Lastly. I'll say that in veg he 1:.666 doesn't cut it for me.
I've done 1:1 with better success
And I've also been recommended 3.7g hydro:2.45g calnit.. the numbers look good there too.

I mix the proportions of hydro and cal not that I like.... then add water till it gets to my desired strength. If I'm gunna add epsom or silica I do it then. Then pH.

Ok.. idk if any of that helps. But it's what I've done

But 3.7 & 2.45 is the 1:.666 ratio, so while you're saying that ratio doesn't work for you you are also saying it looks good?

Also I'm not sure how it matters but jr peters recommends adding any Epsom after the Jacks but before the calnit.

Not trying to be confrontational just want to clarify so I'm understanding you correctly.

 

[Big_Al's_Buds]

Hey man. Sorry I never got back in here.
I'm no pro. So take it all with a grain of salt.

I feed everytime with promix... unless I'm out of solution and time.. then I'll hit gen with a little water till he next time I get in there

Rykus has good info in his thread about "flushing" and not giving plain water... I.e flush with 200 ppm. By going back and forth btw water and food you are doing a feast and famine wherein ph will be all over and plants get stressed

I do promix hp with cut in half with chunky perlite.

Chimera has a good promix thread. The overall consensus is that 6.8 is ideal. Worked fine for me.


I am in tap @ bout 220ppm 7.3. Ur high ph is curious for lower ppm

My mix always swings up. So in my last run of promix I went with 6.5 and let it swing.
Honestly don't worry about runoff. It won't be that accurate.

I have fed at 1.0 during flower. The plants slowly yellowed the whole time. But the yield was awesome as well as quality.

Lastly. I'll say that in veg he 1:.666 doesn't cut it for me.
I've done 1:1 with better success
And I've also been recommended 3.7g hydro:2.45g calnit.. the numbers look good there too.

I mix the proportions of hydro and cal not that I like.... then add water till it gets to my desired strength. If I'm gunna add epsom or silica I do it then. Then pH.

Ok.. idk if any of that helps. But it's what I've done

Thanks I appreciate the info. I have read chimeras replies in a couple other threads but didnt know he had his own, I will have to search for it, although I can never find things on here when I search.

When I move spots in 2 weeks the RO gets hooked back up and I think that will fix things.

Next water they will get 1:1 300ppm of each and see how they react.

I saw Chimera was the one promoting a ph of 6.8.. he likes to view promix as a soil, where others view it more in the direction of hydro and go between 5.8 and 6.2.. The hydro shop says 6ish, but I dont trust them.

When I add in 600ppm of food my water will settle around 6.5, maybe I will just leave it there for now and see how things work out.

 

[Budley Doright]

Here is how jacks....the company.....says to mix 10 gallons....

1. Dissolve 1.3 oz. (2 tbsp.) of 5-12-26 in
10 gal. of final feed solution. You will obtain
the following elemental PPM concentrations:
Element N P K Mg SO4 Fe Mn Zn Cu B Mo
PPM 50 52 215 63 246 3 .50 .15 .15 .50 .10
Mix this solution very well, then proceed
to step 2.
2. Dissolve 0.86 oz. (approx. 5 tsp.) of
soluble Calcium Nitrate into the above
10 gal. solution. The mixture of Step 1 and
Step 2 will produce a total nutrient concentration
of 150 ppm N and 116 ppm Ca.
E.C. at 150 ppm N=3.15 in pure or RO water
Limit of Solubility=3 lb./gal.

Some people have said that this formulation was designed for cannabis..... I dont think I would argue the point.....

 

[Trich_Tyson]

But 3.7 & 2.45 is the 1:.666 ratio, so while you're saying that ratio doesn't work for you you are also saying it looks good?

Also I'm not sure how it matters but jr peters recommends adding any Epsom after the Jacks but before the calnit.

Not trying to be confrontational just want to clarify so I'm understanding you correctly.

sup tree.

I should have said "it isn't enough N for me in veg... imo"
I didn't mean to say it doesn't work.

Aso.. I didn't use those weights, all i did was run them thru cannastats.. didn't think to look at the ratio lol.. was just passing along info that was recommended to me by a fella whose opinion i value quite a bit, following my IG post.

having said that.. I have used 1:.666 in the form of 3:2:1 by weight and watered down accordingly.
epsom brings the ca:magnesium well under 2:1 in the case of 1:.66:.33...
not what i was going for, but.. if you drop the epsom the ca:mg is just under 2:1, and the other numbers look good comparatively. So a stronger nutrient solution could be the answer

I built my ratio to emulate v+b ratios, which is far from the be all end all.. its just what i did.. where i struggled was with the very high ca:mg (almost 3.5:1).

Only thing i could do without calcium chloride or some other form of calcium was bump the cal nit a bit.. at 1:1 jacks:calnit, the ca:mg hit almost 3:1 without throwing off my other macros and micros too much.

after that.. potassium fell short by a drop, so i just played with amount of K/Si until it better balanced my macros.

in re: to mixing epsom before jacks.. got no idea.. but it would complicate how i mix my rez.
as is I.. add 30g of jacks, 30g of cal nit.. as i fill the rez.. i cut the water when i hit 1.2ish EC.. then I approximate the volume.. and add epsom and silica accordingly. let circulate over night then pH

maybe some of that makes sense ?

and just a friendly reminder.. im not a pro - at all.. al's post was related to promix so i thought i'd chime in.. woulda stayed quiet if it wasn't about promix

 

[Budley Doright]

I think the most interesting thing about jacks numbers is this....

according to LUcas.....who has a sticky in the hydro section......

mel frank has targets for npk and mg....Mel Franks 100-100-200-60 targets

while jacks hits most of the targets....one it misses significantly......

thats phos...... mel frank target 100 while jacks is just half that.......52....

I might expect a few folks supplement phos during flowering....but it seems few do......

 

[caljim]

Even with the directions to mix a batch of Jack's right on the tub, easily found on the website or by calling them direct everybody seems to come at making a batch their own particular way.

For me mixing single batches of 40 or so gallons by ppm was frustrating and time consuming. Seemed to take forever to get the ppm to settle down. Making the stock solutions was a bust also...the calnit was fine but no matter what i did with the jacks it would percipitate a brown ring around the container....tap, ro, distlled...didn't matter, so...

I was shooting for the 1:67 ratio, which...with dry salts for me... comes to Calnit at 81% of Jack's by weight....100grams Jacks to 81 grams Calnit.

AND THEN a one part stock is made in 5 gallons of my 150ppm tap water. No precipitate and the plants love it. 12oz. beer cup to gallon of water...give or take. Fresh rooted clones get 1.0 ec teens and moms like 1.2 under t5s. Whatever keeps them happy in flower.

In the end my plants like it better at 89% in veg and through the stretch, it gets cut back to about 83% for the last week they are getting fed... with a couple weeks straight water to finnish. YMMV.

I do add a little humic acid in early flower , but just because .

 

[Trich_Tyson]

Great point budley. Another factor when formulating a mix. I tried to achieve those ratios as well thru the calculator. Didn't linger on it long I don't think.
Then ya got those who say 3-1-2 is the ideal ratio for all stages of life. Based on tissue culture (non canna)
It's been a while since I was nutrient researching but it had something to do with nitrogen being a limiting factor and maintaining a proper ratio of N for P uptake.

So many ways to skin the cat.
And I guess you gotta have a lot of cats to find the best method.

Curious about the single stock Jim. I would also get the ring in plastic. So I started mixing and storing in glass. Still got all weird.. stringy weird suspended stuff with the black stuff floating on top.
I've just been dumping powder in the Rez as I fill it lately.

Ahh man. You guys are gunna keep me busy trying all this stuff

 

[AWDTERROR]

Jacks worked great for me. I got some of my lifetimes biggest yields using it. I would randomly get some weird deficiencies but once I switched (300/300 for veg and 360/240 for flower) everything started looking great. One thing I didn't like was my quality was a little under what I would prefer it to be.
My last run with it, I made an inverted sugar syrup with equal parts citric acid/sucanat(sugar cane natural) and it literally made all the difference. It was staggering how much the quality went up from it and I had the biggest nugs ive ever gotten on my OGs.
I recently switched to heavy16 and have been loving it. Zero deficiencies ever and very high quality

 

[jidoka]

I think the most interesting thing about jacks numbers is this....

according to LUcas.....who has a sticky in the hydro section......

mel frank has targets for npk and mg....Mel Franks 100-100-200-60 targets

while jacks hits most of the targets....one it misses significantly......

thats phos...... mel frank target 100 while jacks is just half that.......52....

I might expect a few folks supplement phos during flowering....but it seems few do......

This Mel dude left out the single most important number of all. I am having serious problems with my give a fuck at the moment

 

[Budley Doright]

8ml GH Micro 16 ml GH Bloom, is my guru pH's baseline bloom formula (pH is a person) derived from the Mel Frank targets, which suggest a 100-100-200-60 goal for NPKMG values in bloom Both GH Flora series nutes and the Flora Nova series, achieve Mel Franks targets without additives. Here is a link to Mel's specs https://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fou...s/profiles.htm
pH's "Lucas Formula" values for 8ml micro, 16ml bloom
n 130
p 106
k 183
Mg 73

8 Flora Nova grow. Flora Nova is the one bottle solution to nutrients, note this mix is almost identical to Canna Aqua Vega, and GrowGreen's Nute Recipe
n 217
p 54
k 257
Mg 46

8 fnBloom
n 124
p 108
k 180
Mg 62

GH's baseline Flora Series, the 3 bottles, green purple and red, (different from Flora Nova series) veg formula
GH 15grow, 10micro, 5bloom
211
46
263
40

and GH 3 part bloom formula
GH 5grow, 10micro, 15bloom
159
92
219
66


canna coco 5.7a plus 5.7b (this is their baseline 3ml per liter formula), the highest dosage they recommend is 14ml/gal of canna coco A plus 14 of B). This mix (5.7ml/gal) is less than 1/3 strength of GH Flora Nova Bloom @8ml per gallon on the P, K and Mg..
N 87
P 30
K 43
Mg 17


canna coco 8/a and 8/b
121
42
60
24

Here is canna coco's strongest bloom mix, before the pk14 boost. it resembles the GH FloraNovaGrow recipe in its Nitrogen level
canna coco 14/a and 14/b
212
74
106
42

Here we see Canna Coco hitting hard with P and K
canna coco 14/a and 14/b plus 6ml pk13-14

212
177
317
42

pk 13-14 alone
0
103
212

here is Canna Aqua Vega at mfg rec of 3ml per litre each of A and B (very similar to GH's veg mix)
208
45
230
35

and here is Canna Aqua Flores at 3ml/litre each of A and B (it does not resemble GH bloom recipes, but is slightly similar to 15ml PBPBloom plus 5ml Cal Mag)
138
60
316
42

Here is PureBlendPro Bloom @ 15ml/gal
129
45
214
26

and PBPBloom 15, plus 5 cal mag (GrowGreen's formula) it resembles the grow formula of FloraNova @8ml, as well as GH's 15Grow, 10Micro, 5 bloom formulations, the most copied recipe Ive found. It seems competition only copied GH's veg formula for the most part..
Note also that GrowGreen has contributed a total nutes per crop spec, of 15ml per 40 gallons, or 20 ounces of PBPBloom per 1k crop.. a very interesting spec, resulting in about 5000 total ppm of N per croplife..
161
45
214
45

 

[AWDTERROR]

is heavy 16 really worth 35$ more a gl of A & B?

I get really good deals on the stuff. It's not much more expensive to me then Jack's.
I get a 55gal A/B set for $2000 and I only use at 6-7ml a gal. You can get 23l a/b sets for 230-275 which is almost the same price.
I get just under 2x 75(kw) light runs from each set.
So basically $1000 per run
I rarely use the boosters but they are very expensive but u only need to to use them at 1ml per gallon and only 1 or 2 times in a flower run.
My quality is leaps and bounds above what it was with Jack's tho and with how competitive things are right now it's making my life alot easier.

 

[AWDTERROR]

is heavy 16 really worth 35$ more a gl of A & B?

With Jack's /calnit and small organic additives I was at like 750 a run so it's not really any more expensive

 

[Big_Al's_Buds]

So at 2000$ for a 55gl of A&B it costs you a lil over 7$ to fill a 100gl tank up once.

After I cut calnit out in week 4/5 it costs me a lil over 1$ to fill up the 100gl tank. With calnit I'm still under 3$ a fillup...

Plus to get that deal I'd need to haul over 100gl of nutrient tanks around every crop, I'd have to visit a hydro store(which I RARELY do),support a company that is filled with assholes in Long Beach, and in all honesty I have found those who do not succeed with Jack's do not understand the ratios and when to cut calnit out.

If you do everything correctly & add some mollases at the end Jack's pushes out some real nugs.

Waxy, could you share your exact recipe and when you apply it at different stages? What temp/humidity and co2 levels do you do throughout?

 

[AWDTERROR]

So at 2000$ for a 55gl of A&B it costs you a lil over 7$ to fill a 100gl tank up once.

After I cut calnit out in week 4/5 it costs me a lil over 1$ to fill up the 100gl tank. With calnit I'm still under 3$ a fillup...

Plus to get that deal I'd need to haul over 100gl of nutrient tanks around every crop, I'd have to visit a hydro store(which I RARELY do),support a company that is filled with assholes in Long Beach, and in all honesty I have found those who do not succeed with Jack's do not understand the ratios and when to cut calnit out.

If you do everything correctly & add some mollases at the end Jack's pushes out some real nugs.

I don't buy the 55 gallons anymore I get them to match the price on the 23l sets so they are not hard to lug around.
I did very well with Jack's I averaged 1-1.2gpw. I had a high of 2.66lbs per light on a 4x4 spread not including larf and was able to bring the quality up emensly with the use of some homemade organic additives.
But when your constantly expending and building new locations adding something that's not very costly and makes ur life much easier is way worth it Imo.

 

[Big_Al's_Buds]

I can understand that AWD, best of luck to you and the ladies.

Big al-
Lots of info to put down right there lol I wouldn't know where to start...

Just know to boost the calnit in veg, cut it out in late flower and add mollases and enzymes towards the start and finish if flower. Every strain reacts a bit different.

I try to keep around 80/70 throughout flower and drop down lower in the last 3 weeks.

I use the pink oyster co2 mushroom bags and throw the leftovers outside for the veggies. 1 bag per light and usually I'm between 900-1400ppm

Thanks man, I have been running different ratios to see what works. Its hard cause I have so many different seed moms right now that I just took clones from. They all want it a different way.

How much Mollases are you adding? Does it desolve in the stock tank?

 

[Big_Al's_Buds]

i use earth juice hi brix and about 5ml per gallon, yes it mixes quite well. the powdered mollases was leaving residue so I switched over.

Ah ok so its not just straight up black molasas you buy at the grocery store and put in a homemade bbq sauce then.

 

[beta]

I don't buy the 55 gallons anymore I get them to match the price on the 23l sets so they are not hard to lug around.
I did very well with Jack's I averaged 1-1.2gpw. I had a high of 2.66lbs per light on a 4x4 spread not including larf and was able to bring the quality up emensly with the use of some homemade organic additives.
But when your constantly expending and building new locations adding something that's not very costly and makes ur life much easier is way worth it Imo.

What sort of organic amendments were you using? Did you top dress or add it to the rez? You're in coco, right?

 

[Big_Al's_Buds]

I was recommended this - http://www.jrpeters.com/products_/1...onal/16320-15-5-15-calcium--magnesium-lx.html

Some growers use it as a 1 part. Seems to be lacking in certain ways but for the price and ease of use, could be great. Anyone try it? Or consider it?

 

[eric2028]

I need some advice from the jacks pros. I'm running 5.66 grams/gallon of jacks 5-12-26, 3.02 grams/gallon of calnit and 1 gram/gallon of epsom in tupar coco dtw. I'm loving it no issues. The same rates in promix hp is locking out in about week 2 of flower. So what are you promix users running with success?

 

[cocktail frank]

i run in coco, 3.7g jacks 2.4 cal/ nit and a dash of MgSo4.
This is full strength which gets me to around 1.7 EC.
I dilute this down to 80% most of the time so i top out at 1.4EC
I also add primordial solutions gear and mammoth P to it and straight crush with this.
I could do without the sea green / rootamentary/ true blooms additives but the buds dont finish as well.
As far as taste, aromas and frost go.
I feel like mammoth P helps me out with the low P numbers going in, but have no scientific study to prove it, just my eyes and scales.