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A question for the growers using Jacks 5-12-26

audiohi

Well-known member
Veteran
Utilizing Your JR Peters Lab Results to Select the Proper Jack’s Professional® Fertilizers

Now that you have your water test results, you can begin the process of selecting the correct fertilizer to grow your crops. The first step in the process is to determine the nutritional needs of the plant material you are growing. Once you have this information, you are ready to interpret the results of your water test and begin the process of fertilizer selection.

Step 1: Begin by examining the level of alkalinity in the water.

A simple way to think of alkalinity is as the ability of your water to neutralize acid. The higher the alkalinity, the more acid it will take to lower the pH of your water. Alkalinity is composed of bicarbonates, carbonates and hydroxides joined to calcium, magnesium or sodium. These are the same components found in antacids, such as Tums or Rolaids, baking soda, limestone and lye. Alkalinity is expressed as ppm calcium carbonate equivalent. The higher the number, the more of these components there are in the water. Alkalinity levels are of more concern for crops grown in small containers and for those grown for a long period. Table 1 lists recommended alkalinity ranges for various container sizes.

Table 1. JR Peters Laboratory Alkalinity Guidelines

CONTAINER SIZE

RECOMMENDED RANGE

LEVEL OF CONCERN1



ppm=mg CaCO3/L

Milliequivalents2 CaCO3

ppm=mg CaCO3/L

Milliequivalents CaCO3

Plugs

60-100

1.2-2.0

<40, >120

<0.8, >2.4

Small pots/Shallow flats

80-120

1.6-2.4

<40, >140

<0.8, >2.8

4” to 5” pots/deep flats

100-140

2.0-2.8

<40, >160

<0.8, >3.2

Pots > 6”/long term crops

120-180

1.6-3.6

<60, >200

<1.2, >4.0


1 Alkalinity levels are intended as guidelines only and are dependent on the plant and media type, pot diameter/size, acidity of the feed program and watering practices.

2 Milliequivalents=ppm total alkalinity expressed as mg CaCO3/liter divided by 50.

High alkalinity water may cause a gradual increase in the growing media pH. As the pH climbs, availability of certain plant nutrients, particularly the micronutrients like iron and manganese are negatively affected resulting in deficiencies. It may be necessary to inject mineral acid (sulfuric or phosphoric) into the water or to use acidic media amendments, such as sulfur, or “acid-forming” fertilizers. To determine the amount of mineral acid you need to use to reduce the alkalinity of your water, access the alkalinity calculator located on the web on the North Carolina State University website at http://www.floricultureinfo.com/ and clicking on the floriculture software link. Do not use water that has been water softened. Water softeners add harmful sodium while removing desirable calcium and magnesium. Water softeners do not reduce water alkalinity.

Low alkalinity water usually lacks the components that neutralize acid. As a consequence, the continued use of potentially acidic fertilizers, like many all-purpose formulas, may result in an undesirable decrease in the pH of the growing medium. As the pH drops, certain plant nutrients like iron and manganese may become available in toxic amounts. In addition, these waters are often deficient in calcium, magnesium or sulfate and additional supplements may be needed. A fertilizer program that alternates a potentially basic fertilizer containing calcium and magnesium with a low potential acidity fertilizer can help prevent pH crashes in the growing media and supply needed nutrients.

Step 2: Examine the level of nutrients that may present a concern.

Nutrient levels in water are expected to be low. The exceptions to this rule are calcium, magnesium and sulfur, which frequently occur naturally in water. The normal ranges of plant nutrients in water are listed in Table 2.

Table 2. JR Peters Laboratory Water Quality Guidelines

PARAMETERS

NORMAL RANGE

LOW

HIGH



Soluble Salts (mmhos/cm)

0.3 to 1.0

<0.2

>1.3



M

A

C

R

O

S

Nitrate Nitrogen (NO3-N)

-----

-----

>10

Ammonium Nitrogen (NH4-N)

-----

-----

>10

Phosphorus (P)

-----

-----

>10

Potassium (K)

-----

-----

>10

Calcium (Ca)

40 to 75

<25

>100

Magnesium (Mg)

30 to 50

<15

>50

Sulfur (S)

10 to 80

<10

>80

T

R

A

C

E

S

Manganese (Mn)

-----

-----

>1.50

Iron (Fe)

-----

-----

>2.00

Copper (Cu)

-----

-----

>0.20

Boron (B)*

-----

-----

>0.50

Zinc (Zn)

-----

-----

>0.40

Molybdenum (Mo)

-----

-----

>0.20

O

T

H

E

R

Sodium (Na)

-----

-----

>50

Chlorides (Cl)

-----

-----

>70

Fluorides (F)

-----

-----

>1.0

Aluminum (Al)

-----

-----

>1.0


*Poinsettias are sensitive to boron. A level equal to or greater than 0.25 ppm may be considered high and could cause toxicity.

Nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium levels greater than 10 ppm may indicate contamination of the water source, possibly due to nutrient runoff; however there is no negative effect on plant growth if these nutrients are present.

High levels of trace elements and other elements, such as sodium and chloride, in irrigation water may result in plant toxicity. Consult with a water treatment specialist to determine the source of these elements and appropriate treatment methods.

Step 3: Determine whether a calcium-containing fertilizer is needed.

Most all-purpose water soluble fertilizers do not contain calcium or magnesium but some water can serve as a source of these essential plant nutrients. If calcium is not supplied by the irrigation water, it is recommended that it be added by a water soluble fertilizer. Most greenhouse crops grow best when they are supplied with a minimum of 50-60 ppm calcium on a continuous basis. Herbaceous perennial and woody plant crops may grow well with slightly lower calcium levels. Poinsettias perform best when continuously supplied with 100-150 ppm calcium. Low calcium levels may be corrected by supplementing with a calcium-containing fertilizer such as Jack’s Professional 15-5-15, 13-2-13, 15-0-15, or 15-0-14.

Sodium is an undesirable component of some waters. Sodium bicarbonate can raise the pH of the growing medium while supplying a potentially toxic element. The best way to minimize the negative effect of sodium in the water is to supply calcium at a level greater than or equal to that of sodium.

Step 4: Check for imbalances and sulfur levels.

The ideal ratio of calcium to magnesium in water or fertilizer solutions is 2 parts calcium to1part magnesium (2:1). Acceptable ratios range from 5:1 to 1:1. Low magnesium levels can be corrected with a drench of Epsom salts (MgSO4 - magnesium sulfate) or by adding Epsom salts to non-calcium containing fertilizers. Sulfur is reported as elemental S. To convert to sulfate (SO4-), multiply by 3. Small amounts of sulfur can be added through the addition of Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to non-calcium fertilizer formulations. DO NOT MIX any sulfur-containing compounds with calcium, an insoluble precipitate will form. One ounce of Epsom salts per 100 gallons of water will deliver 7.5 ppm Mg and 30 ppm SO4. The following Jack’s Professional fertilizers contain magnesium in addition to calcium: 15-5-15, 13-2-13, 15-0-14, or 15-4-15. If it is necessary to add more magnesium to a calcium-containing fertilizer, it is possible to add magnesium nitrate, 10-0-0.

Step 5: Consider the nitrogen sources and potential acidity or basicity of the fertilizer.

Nitrogen can be supplied in fertilizers in three forms; nitrate (NO3-), ammonium (NH4+), or urea (CO(NH2)2). The forms of nitrogen in a fertilizer product determine whether the tendency of a particular fertilizer is to raise the pH of the growing medium (potentially basic) or to lower the pH (potentially acidic). The potential acidity or basicity of a fertilizer product is referred to as its CCE (calcium carbonate equivalent) and it is expressed in pounds. This value can be found on the label of the fertilizer. The higher the number, the more effect the fertilizer potentially has to change the pH of the growing medium. The absolute value of this number is not important, but it provides an indication of how strong an acidifier a product may be. High nitrate fertilizers are generally potentially basic while ammoniacal and urea-based fertilizers are generally potentially acidic. Use of a product with high potential acidity may help to prevent the need for mineral acids; however, the pH effect of the fertilizer is not the sole factor to consider when selecting a product.

Products high in the nitrate form of nitrogen tend to produce sturdier, stockier plants, while the ammoniacal and urea forms of nitrogen produce softer, more lush growth. Another factor to consider is that under cool, wet conditions, fertilizers high in ammonium and urea may result in an accumulation of ammonium around plant roots and this may result in ammonium toxicity. For these reasons, many growers select fertilizers with at least 60% nitrate nitrogen for use in the greenhouse, especially during to cool, short days of early spring and when there is an extended period of cool, wet weather. During the high light and warm days of late spring, summer and early autumn, fertilizers with more ammonium and urea may be used.

Step 6: Select fertilizer based on your water quality and crop needs.

After you have evaluated your results for the above factors it is time to select the fertilizer that best fits the needs of the crops you are growing. There is a large selection of fertilizers available that can be mixed and matched to fit your needs. Review the cultural guidelines provided by plant suppliers and modify them as needed based on your geographical and environmental factors. Group plants with similar cultural requirements. For further information of grouping plants, refer to the Jack’s Professional® Technical Bulletin Group Your Plants by Growing Medium pH Preference.

Table 4, below, provides an outline to follow for selecting a proper fertilizer for your water type. Remember, that these are general comments and that your crop may have specific requirements that may alter your selection. Some crop specific characteristics are listed here:




Those tables didn't post correctly, but the point is... Just be sure your starting water quality isn't bad.
 
I posted my water analysis initially.

I dont think its bad. pH is high due to CaCO3, not sure if that is the culprit. Tried calling peters today, but no one was there.
 
So 3.7g/gal mix

.28g/gal epsom if i need it

2.44g/gal CaNO3

I'll do a 100:1 stock and add 370g mix and 28g epsom Part A and 244g CaNO3 part B to a gallon of distilled water.

How close are people getting to the guaranteed analysis adding just small amounts of mix?
 
Doing the mix that way it wasn't exactly 3:2 mix to CaNO3 by ppm/EC

3.7g/gal mix was about 420ppm and the 2.44g/gal CaNO3 was about 220

I was doing the 3:2 mix to CaNO3 by ppm/EC so that 420ppm mix would have commanded 280ppm

The final read was 1.3EC my tap made it 1.4EC

I'll roll with this see how it works. I feel I may need to run a little bit hotter than this.

The plant that I set at 1.9EC last night was at 1.7EC tonight

The other plant I set at 1.8EC was at 1.8EC tonight
 

Hookah79

Active member
I am @wk 6 of flower.Would .25/.5 gram of mkp (bloom booster)be of any help?.I am running jacks/cal-nit and silica only.
 
Still getting the same issues of yellowing tips.

I added epsom salts at 1g/gal and increased the size of my res so id have less nutrient drops and pH swings.

Final feed is 1.66EC but tap is 0.16EC so 1.5EC of feed.

Its about 1.0EC by the time I change the res.

Leaves are getting dark.

Currently using 2.5oz per gal of each 50:1 stock I made using 112g CaNO3 in 1 gal distilled water and 185g of mix to 1 gal distilled water. Perhaps i should back off on the calcium nitrate a bit?
 
Flower area has improved and is being fed 1.4EC and it seems to like it. I put one of the smaller ones at 1.7EC and its tips started shriveling and turning light yellow. SO perhaps I was overdoing it.

This is my veg area though. Doesnt look good. Currently at 1.4EC on the two healthiest looking ones, but I just pushed them there last night and already it looks like im getting yellow tips.

Im about to say fuck jacks and go back to my 5-11-26 chem-gro. The only thing I can think of is since im mixing only 185g of Jacks in a stock that maybe im not getting close to the guaranteed analysis. With the chem-gro I did 5lbs per 11gal and got it analyzed and it was pretty close to the guaranteed analysis.

SAM_3338.jpg

SAM_3340.jpg

SAM_3345.jpg

SAM_3337.jpg

SAM_3353.jpg
 
I actually did an experiment and used distilled water as my base at 550ppm (1.1EC) and they look the most fucked, they are pictures 1, 2 and 3 and are the 2 bottoms on the left hand column in the group picture.

The two I set at 1.4EC and 1.3EC are on the right hand column of the group picture. The yellow growing tips is the 5th and final picture and is of the one set at 1.4EC (which is now 1.3EC after only 24 hours)
 

audiohi

Well-known member
Veteran
My guess would be that you need magnesium then. But, if switching to something else would be a definite fix, maybe that's what's best for now?
 

Hookah79

Active member
Almost done with wk 7 and i am still not seeing the yellowing on my leaves like i should.Is this normal with this formula or should i lower/remove the cal-nit?I am @2.25 jack's and 1.5 calnit in tap water.
 

Speed of green

Active member
Almost done with wk 7 and i am still not seeing the yellowing on my leaves like i should.Is this normal with this formula or should i lower/remove the cal-nit?I am @2.25 jack's and 1.5 calnit in tap water.

If the plant is still uptaking everything it needs from the root zone it will not yellow off, i have dropped calnit the last few weeks and pretty much as soon as the nitrogen is gone the plant will start pulling from the leaves.

depending on how many weeks you plan to take this strain would dictate when to drop calnit

some say drop calnit & raise jacks.

some say drop calnit & leave jacks the same.

I've had good results with both, hopefully someone more educated will chime in.

Ive used mkp several times with jacks, if the leaves look healthy with no burn then i would say give it a shot.
 

Hookah79

Active member
If the plant is still uptaking everything it needs from the root zone it will not yellow off, i have dropped calnit the last few weeks and pretty much as soon as the nitrogen is gone the plant will start pulling from the leaves.

depending on how many weeks you plan to take this strain would dictate when to drop calnit

some say drop calnit & raise jacks.

some say drop calnit & leave jacks the same.

I've had good results with both, hopefully someone more educated will chime in.

Ive used mkp several times with jacks, if the leaves look healthy with no burn then i would say give it a shot.
Appreciate it man,i plan on taking them to 9 weeks.
Some things worry me thou,like how is it going to burn if the leaves end up green all the way thru as i was planning to run calnit all the way to flush.

I did have issues in veg earlier as i didnt water frequently as max and others pointed out,but they've came thru since.I don't go pass 1.4 ec,so i figured i'd run both til harvest.

Would too much nitrogen towards the last 3 weeks effect them bulking up?The og kush strain is bulking up nicely but some of gsc are not so not sure if it's that or maybe because i had to flip those too early in a big pot...

Either way if i cut back the cal-nit now do i have to worry about the calcium uptake til harvest?
 

Speed of green

Active member
you can supplement the calcium with calcium chloride if you really want to, i don't think it will hurt to drop cal nit completely.

i think it will smoke fine, maybe do a three day flush if you are worried.

the bulking normally happens once i cut calnit, the plants really swell up the last few weeks.

i shoot between 1.2-1.4ec

i had a lot of issues with jacks when i began using it, i think part of my issues came from trying to mix concentrated stock solutions. once i switched over to the dry method it made everything easier for me, and took a lot of the guesswork out of it.
 

clown baby

Active member
Hoping for some people who run Jacks hydroponic 5-12-26 to chime in.

I want to run it with a potassium silicate additive.

I know a lot of the coco guys say not to add anymore K, but I'm not in coco. I'm in recirculating top feed (F&D intervals) in hydroton/lavarock.

I mix all stock tanks at 1.5#/gallon, so i adding equal volumes gets me equal weights. IE 100ml of 10-0-0 and 100ml of 0-20-10 should yield me a 1-2-1 solution.

With that in mind i want to take 4 parts Jacks hydro, 5 parts calcium nitrate, and 1.5 parts potassium silicate. If my math is right, that should yield a 2-1-3 solution, with a Ca:Mg ratio of 3.8:1.

Does anything look wrong with this calculation or nutrient profile?

Just want to make sure there's no obvious lockout with this mix. Calculation attached.

Thanks
 

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linky

Member
Anyone else having ph swings? I am using jacks in a 40 gal res, first 2 days its at 5.8 on its own, after that it rises quickly, up to mid and high 6's by 3rd/4th day. I use jacks hydroponics, cal nit, mag sul, fulvic acid, sm 90, terpinator and mammoth p.

what product can I add to lower ph (besides ph down) (I know silica is great to raise), need to use quite a bit of ph down to get it back to the 5.8-6.1 range and I don't thing using that much is good for the plants.
 

caljim

I'm on the edge. Of what I'm not sure.
Veteran
Linky.....In my 40 gallon rez Jacks will climb a few tentths of a ph point overnight. Say from 6.0 to 6.3. You can use phosphoric acid(common comercial ph down) or sulfuric acid to lower ph.

I like sulfuric acid because i can get 5 gallons of it at Napa for 30 bucks,..... and I dilute that by 50% for daily use.
 

Speed of green

Active member
linky, are you starting with RO? Jacks has a ton of mag already, whats your ec & ph with just jacks and calnit?

i mix a 30 gal res with r/o starting at 0ec and 6.5ph

after mixing jacks and calnit I'm at 1.2-1.4ec and 5.4 ph every time. normally 6-10 drops potassium hydroxide (botanicare ph up) gets me to 5.8 The res is normally stable like this until its used~ 1wk
 

linky

Member
linky, are you starting with RO? Jacks has a ton of mag already, whats your ec & ph with just jacks and calnit?

i mix a 30 gal res with r/o starting at 0ec and 6.5ph

after mixing jacks and calnit I'm at 1.2-1.4ec and 5.4 ph every time. normally 6-10 drops potassium hydroxide (botanicare ph up) gets me to 5.8 The res is normally stable like this until its used~ 1wk

Yep, I am using RO. Next time I reset a res I will put in just jacks and calnit and see what my EC is, right now my ec is 2.3 with everything I am using. It sounds high (I was used to 1.3-1.4 when using canna coco line) but most plants are super green and healthy with it like this but I have a couple strains that I think need even more.. as they are yellowing evenly all over. I do use co2 as well.. so may be partially why they are more hungry.
 

Speed of green

Active member
yeah co2 can drain them, the mix you are using sounds strong enough, there might be some chemistry going on with those additives thats locking up something, causing your yellowing.

jacks calnit sm90 and mammoth p are for sure not giving you the ph issue, maybe revert back to these for a week and see if you are still getting the swing, rule out some variables.

maybe foliar the mag and fulvic if you aren't too far along.
 

SuperWeed

Member
Hoping for some people who run Jacks hydroponic 5-12-26 to chime in.

I want to run it with a potassium silicate additive.

I know a lot of the coco guys say not to add anymore K, but I'm not in coco. I'm in recirculating top feed (F&D intervals) in hydroton/lavarock.

I mix all stock tanks at 1.5#/gallon, so i adding equal volumes gets me equal weights. IE 100ml of 10-0-0 and 100ml of 0-20-10 should yield me a 1-2-1 solution.

With that in mind i want to take 4 parts Jacks hydro, 5 parts calcium nitrate, and 1.5 parts potassium silicate. If my math is right, that should yield a 2-1-3 solution, with a Ca:Mg ratio of 3.8:1.

Does anything look wrong with this calculation or nutrient profile?

Just want to make sure there's no obvious lockout with this mix. Calculation attached.

Thanks
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=391501&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

From another site: "Jack's has more than enough silica own it own. I can attest to this as my branches are thicker and stronger than ever."

"Dr. Bruce Bugbee suggests ~3ppm Si (0.1 mM) as an average for recirculating hydroponic crops specifically . That's probably perfect for cannabis as well since all tissue analyses of cannabis i've seen has shown Si levels in the same range as Fe."

I cannot attest to the veracity of these statements in DWC. Although, it is my understanding that Jacks is all you need. It is all I ever needed, except a zone product.
 
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