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a ppk for a 6 plant limit
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
Snook
Still Learning
in 4 hours the top of my ppks (using 3.5 gallon pot with 2 gallons of MVP) looks like a desert. move it to 3 hours, observe and adjust. increasing the air gap will help drainage also raising the light intensity (eg. 400w instead of 250W) will suck more thru the plants. I just had a similar problem, volume rez wasn't using water as fast as usual.. I had too much exhaust in a tent that was a little too cool and buds weren't forming as typical, leaves looked 'dry' not happy. Turned off the AC (which was also lowering the humidity) and lowered the exhaust fan to half its speed... 3 day positive response from the girls. good luck av8her.
Id start with the air gap if theyre still wet after 4 hours.
Snook
Still Learning
if you started with a tilted garage floor (as you said and they're supposed to be) and set the gap a little high it would, as you found out, really make the gap smaller on the down hill ppks. as we all do, killinm with food (water/nutrients). with the 8822, washed or unwashed, will wick higher than MVP. Gap, 3-4".
av8or
Member
I suspected the floor dry might wick a bit more than the turface. After I scratched my head for a few, I was able to settle the air gap down at 3 3/4". Apparently, it had been sitting at 2 1/2" for a while. So, now that this is corrected (again), I'm hoping they will take off soon.
I'm still wondering, though, how can you tell when to start increasing the feed schedule? I'm at three hours off right now, air gap set, and waiting. When do I bump it to, say...two and a half hours off?
I'm still wondering, though, how can you tell when to start increasing the feed schedule? I'm at three hours off right now, air gap set, and waiting. When do I bump it to, say...two and a half hours off?
Snook
Still Learning
not until they look happy, you'll have to pay attention to the pulse vs the wick..just experience.. every time I change something it takes me half a grow to adjust.. why do I keep changing? Idono, idot.
good morning! let me start by addressing some of the recent questions.
flower farmer, when I was using the wave type pulse I was in 3.5 gal buckets and was delivering about a quart every 30 minutes to an hour.
more frequently when they are small and less when the roots fill the container.
the saturation pulse is mechanically more difficult to achieve because of larger line and pump requirements.
you really need to design and build for it in advance.
the wave pulse is easier to achieve and can grow huge plants.
it may be the best way to do outdoor ppk's, with their greater media volume.
with the wave pulse you need to disperse the solution more evenly onto the surface of the medium.
to all:
how wet should it be? with turface or 8822 you want the medium just below the surface to be visibly wet at all times. when you pick up a small amount from the top you should be able to see moisture not just dark color from it.
start all air gaps at 4" and adjust from there.
the perched water table is pulled down into the tailpiece after each pulse but does not exist at the same level as the solution in the plant reservoir.
if you are in turface and have a 1.5" perched water table then that 1.5" saturated zone will still exist inside the tailpiece above the solution level.
so if your solution level is 4" below the medium the actual saturated level is 2.5" below the medium.
look at the plants for cues as to adjustment. you want the leaves flat rather than curled under or edges turned up. when they are flat everything is right, and they are growing at the highest rate.
every choice of container and medium will require a slightly different air gap and interval between pulses.
the saturation pulse predetermines duration and takes a lot of the decision making out of the process, leaving only interval to deal with.
I hope this helps! d9
flower farmer, when I was using the wave type pulse I was in 3.5 gal buckets and was delivering about a quart every 30 minutes to an hour.
more frequently when they are small and less when the roots fill the container.
the saturation pulse is mechanically more difficult to achieve because of larger line and pump requirements.
you really need to design and build for it in advance.
the wave pulse is easier to achieve and can grow huge plants.
it may be the best way to do outdoor ppk's, with their greater media volume.
with the wave pulse you need to disperse the solution more evenly onto the surface of the medium.
to all:
how wet should it be? with turface or 8822 you want the medium just below the surface to be visibly wet at all times. when you pick up a small amount from the top you should be able to see moisture not just dark color from it.
start all air gaps at 4" and adjust from there.
the perched water table is pulled down into the tailpiece after each pulse but does not exist at the same level as the solution in the plant reservoir.
if you are in turface and have a 1.5" perched water table then that 1.5" saturated zone will still exist inside the tailpiece above the solution level.
so if your solution level is 4" below the medium the actual saturated level is 2.5" below the medium.
look at the plants for cues as to adjustment. you want the leaves flat rather than curled under or edges turned up. when they are flat everything is right, and they are growing at the highest rate.
every choice of container and medium will require a slightly different air gap and interval between pulses.
the saturation pulse predetermines duration and takes a lot of the decision making out of the process, leaving only interval to deal with.
I hope this helps! d9
just some shots of a new build i'm finishing.
these are the 7 gal tuff tubs and 70 quart muck tubs which av8or has somehow beat me showing a picture of. I suspect friends in common.
the tailpiece assemblies are the same as detailed in post #2,3, and 4 for the 3 gal tubs.
the red handled ball valve from home depot is the best I've found so far, it's really smooth to operate. proline brand. the blue ones shown earlier in this thread are stiff and difficult to adjust.
these are the 7 gal tuff tubs and 70 quart muck tubs which av8or has somehow beat me showing a picture of. I suspect friends in common.
the tailpiece assemblies are the same as detailed in post #2,3, and 4 for the 3 gal tubs.
the red handled ball valve from home depot is the best I've found so far, it's really smooth to operate. proline brand. the blue ones shown earlier in this thread are stiff and difficult to adjust.
the 1.5" feed and return lines go around the room. these were already installed from a previous ppk build that was here so we just used them.
pump chamber. the pump is a 3000 gph mag drive fountain pump with a 1.5" outlet. it easily floods all 12 sites with no flow restrictors.
here I used four tubs linked together for a reservoir.
the float valve and volume tank have not been installed yet.
the system was flooded for leak testing and was bone dry everywhere.
this is getting way too easy!
pump chamber. the pump is a 3000 gph mag drive fountain pump with a 1.5" outlet. it easily floods all 12 sites with no flow restrictors.
here I used four tubs linked together for a reservoir.
the float valve and volume tank have not been installed yet.
the system was flooded for leak testing and was bone dry everywhere.
this is getting way too easy!
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Everytime I say this I usually get humbled in some way.
Good looking room brother! Keep spreading the good work uve done!
Using coco in the ppk, if u set the water level below the drain, will the pwt still be in the bottom 2.5" of the drain?
Ive been experiencing some overwatering with the coco medium so next run im going to add some hydroton in the bottom 2.5" of my drain to give me a little more water level in my res with out water logging the coco. My drains are 6" so they go pretty deep into my 3.5 gallon buckets the plants sit on.
Snook
Still Learning
I too have thought of this hydroton 'fix' but was always thinking hydroton has little wicking ability and not bottom feed the plant
and I'd just be running a 'drain to waste'/pulse system.
BTW, very organized and 'pretty build', as usual, D9 but that's some mess you have going on behind the scenes. thanks for the pics.
Looking good!
i'm not real sure i understand you here. by "drain", do you mean the tailpiece? if so, depending on the coco consistency, you will have a PWT of approx 2". so if you run an air gap below the media container of no less than 4", which is the starting point, then you will have the same approx 2" saturated zone inside the tailpiece ABOVE the solution level in the reservoir.
the device does not eliminate the pwt, it just greatly reduces it and minimizes it's down regulating effect on the plant.
and, as Snook mentioned, you don't want to put anything in the tailpiece that could possibly break the hydraulic connection between the plant container and the reservoir below it.
not my mess, mine are much larger! the last one was 1200 sq ft about 8' high. packed with useless shit.
In order of greatest choice to last choice, how would you rate:
Coco
Turface
Diatomite (floor dry 8822)
Grostones
Perlite
I already know turface is first, but I'm curious to where coco lands. Last I remember you don't suggest coco as a media, people still seem apt to use it right off the bat though.
Coco
Turface
Diatomite (floor dry 8822)
Grostones
Perlite
I already know turface is first, but I'm curious to where coco lands. Last I remember you don't suggest coco as a media, people still seem apt to use it right off the bat though.
Being a die hard coco head I had to toss some in my ppks 
. Still doing some experimenting, but so far I've come to the conclusion that the coffee ground coco really shouldn't be part of the mix. Was able to successfully pull off a nice crop with my usual blend of roughly equal parts coco (coffee), coco chips, and floor dry, but even as airy as that mix is it still wicked too well to sufficiently remove the PWT. I have since experimented with doubling the amount of chips and floor dry in the mix, and it still wicks too well. Next step is a 50/50 blend of chips and floor dry. Having said all that, Turface, floordry, and very possibly the smaller growstones are likely better suited for use in the ppk. I just like to tinker with shit 
. I am however curious to hear d9's thoughts on this 
.
. Still doing some experimenting, but so far I've come to the conclusion that the coffee ground coco really shouldn't be part of the mix. Was able to successfully pull off a nice crop with my usual blend of roughly equal parts coco (coffee), coco chips, and floor dry, but even as airy as that mix is it still wicked too well to sufficiently remove the PWT. I have since experimented with doubling the amount of chips and floor dry in the mix, and it still wicks too well. Next step is a 50/50 blend of chips and floor dry. Having said all that, Turface, floordry, and very possibly the smaller growstones are likely better suited for use in the ppk. I just like to tinker with shit . I am however curious to hear d9's thoughts on this .Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Yes the drain equals the tail piece I was talking about.
So the hydraulic connection? Is that critical? Because I show signs of overwatering a lot when the water level is touching the tailpiece. Doesn't the tailpiece still allow me to lower my pwt into it without the tailpiece being in the water level? Thus making it a better dtw recirculating system cause my pwt is in the tailpiece instead of the pot. That's my take on it using coco that seems to wick too much.
