A Change of Heart: Prop 19

[Herborizer]

Myth #4: Under the initiative, anyone 21 or over will be allowed to grow marijuana in a 5’x5’ space.
[11] Plus, if you rent, you will be required to obtain permission from your landlord—which they may be unwilling to grant since doing so will subject them to forfeiture by the federal government.

That's not the way I read it. Lets look at prop 19 shall we:

(ii) Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property. Provided that, nothing in this section shall permit unlawful or unlicensed cultivation of cannabis on any public lands.

Notice how I bold the "may" in the above. The way I read this, is that a landlord can update your lease on the next renewal that specifically doesn't give you permission to grow. The way I read it, it doesn't mean you have to get permission.

Myth #5: Adults 21 and over will be able to possess up to one ounce of marijuana without penalty.
Fact: Perhaps the most ironic piece of the puzzle is that the initiative to legalize marijuana actually makes it illegal to possess marijuana if it was purchased anywhere other than the very few licensed dispensaries in the state.[12] So if this initiative passes, better not get caught carrying marijuana you bought off your neighbor, your current dealer, or at a party; you could get arrested. And if you do buy from a licensed dispensary, better keep your receipts, because the burden of proof will be on you. Not only is this inconvenient, but it sets the industry up to be monopolized.

This is an assumption. How do you know how many dispensaries will be licensed?

Also, your point about the burden of proof is incorrect here. It will become lawful to possess up to 1oz of Marijuana outside of your home. Lets read the prop 19 again:

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:
(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.

Notice the words I have in bold. You can share all you want (up to 1 oz at a time).

Also, TODAY f you buy Cannabis from your neighbor, dealer, or at a party, you could get arrested. I still don't see the passage of Prop 19 will be any different (in this aspect) then it is today. Except, that cops will most likely stop trying to bust people for Cannabis because it will become too difficult to enforce.

What’s more, if your city decides not to tax cannabis, then buying and selling marijuana in the city limits would remain illegal. You would be permitted to possess and consume marijuana, but you would be required to travel to another city that taxes cannabis to buy it.[13] This is a move towards decreased, not increased, access. And since the initiative is so ambiguous that cities are destined to be tied up in a legal quagmire over how to interpret it, many local governments might find it simpler just to opt-out and send its citizens elsewhere. Indeed, 129 cities did just that with medical marijuana, banning it outright, while still others have established moratoriums against dispensaries. In fact, of the entire state, only the city of Oakland has endorsed the initiative. A vote for the initiative will therefore not ensure local access to purchase marijuana legally.

Right now cities and counties are already banning Dispensaries. This is TODAY. Yep, under Prop 215. Even if what you say above is true, how would it be any different then today?

 

[krunchbubble]

Yes, it could of helped. The smell of the elbows in your jeep wouldn't of been cause for search. Also, having weed in your jeep, probably wouldn't of been cause for searching your residence.

Also, you have to figure on another angle. If the California voters send a message to our officers saying that Cannabis is legal, the officers can stop trying to decide the legal/illegal aspect of the Medical Marijuana position.

Hey, that's just the way I see it. I could be wrong.

there's a lot of could's and probably's there.....

so let me get this straight, you think if a cop smells pot in your vehicle, they wont search to determine how much you have? even if prop 19 passes, you are still limited to the amount you can have/carry.

so, just because it may pass, they wont care anymore and just let people go if they smell weed, fuck no! there will be a limit and they will prosecute you if your over, this is not decriminalization!

if i was a cop and smelled pot in your car, i will search to make sure you dont have lb's and lb's of it, and it will happen if it passes, no way around it, there not just all of a sudden not going to give a shit about weed......

 

[Herborizer]

there's a lot of could's and probably's there.....

so let me get this straight, you think if a cop smells pot in your vehicle, they wont search to determine how much you have? even if prop 19 passes, you are still limited to the amount you can have/carry.

so, just because it may pass, they wont care anymore and just let people go if they smell weed, fuck no! there will be a limit and they will prosecute you if your over, this is not decriminalization!

if i was a cop and smelled pot in your car, i will search to make sure you dont have lb's and lb's of it, and it will happen if it passes, no way around it, there not just all of a sudden not going to give a shit about weed......

You might be right, but the way I understand it they need probable cause for a search. Today, they have that. This is because they can say they are not sure if you recommendation is fake. They can say that because Cannabis is illegal to possess.

If prop 19 passes, I believe probable cause goes away in this case. I could be wrong, just the way I see it.

 

[kmk420kali]

there's a lot of could's and probably's there.....

so let me get this straight, you think if a cop smells pot in your vehicle, they wont search to determine how much you have? even if prop 19 passes, you are still limited to the amount you can have/carry.

so, just because it may pass, they wont care anymore and just let people go if they smell weed, fuck no! there will be a limit and they will prosecute you if your over, this is not decriminalization!

if i was a cop and smelled pot in your car, i will search to make sure you dont have lb's and lb's of it, and it will happen if it passes, no way around it, there not just all of a sudden not going to give a shit about weed......

It will not be Probable Cause for a search, no-- Just because they want to, doesn't mean they can--
With 215, it is on us to prove we are a patient, and in compliance-- But under 19, smell will mean nothing, since it is Legal for everyone--

 

[krunchbubble]

You're totally out of line KrunchBubble.

Before California medical marijuana laws, if you got caught with weed, you're busted.

After the medical marijuana laws, there became this 'gray' area.

Now you can be stopped, and if you are in the 'gray' area the officer has an option to let you go... citation or no citation.

With the passage of Prop 19, this 'gray' area becomes HUGE.

How much more room does that give a cop to make a decision to persue or not to?

Maybe the cop is friendly to MMJ and recreational mary jane, but just needs more 'gray' area to feel safe he won't lose his own skin by not busting you.

I say Prop 19 will be good for ALL users of marijuana in ALL places around the whole WORLD.

It changes that 'gray' area from medicine only to accepting people have a legitimate reason and right to use marijuana for recreation.

dont understand how im out of line.......

i am not arguing, calling people names or anything of that sort. if you read the threads, the YES people are.......

you guys are out of line and have been all this time, i think you guys are too passionate about prop 19........

you guys want it so bad, your willing to shit on anyone who dares not to agree with you......

reminds me of grade school days.........

 

[krunchbubble]

It will not be Probable Cause for a search, no-- Just because they want to, doesn't mean they can--
With 215, it is on us to prove we are a patient, and in compliance-- But under 19, smell will mean nothing, since it is Legal for everyone--

show me where it says there will no longer be probable cause to search a vehicle........

i think you guys are assuming?

 

[Herborizer]

dont understand how im out of line.......

i am not arguing, calling people names or anything of that sort..

I don't understand how you are out of line either. I must of missed something. Name calling, bashing, uncivil debate does nobody good.

People in these threads need to not take it so personal. Everyone isn't out to get you. Debate, vote, then shake hands afterward.

 

[OhGee Kush]

C'mon seriously... When this passes do you really think every car that smells of pot is gonna get searched?? Everybodys car is gonna smell like it then you think they're gonna say I got a shots fired call but I may catch someone with 30 grams!! I'm gonna stay here and bother this guy... And 28 grams isn't enough for you to take a car ride??? Get the fuck outta here unless you riding in a school bus I think an OZ will do just fine for a car ride... Get over it, the time is coming where med patients will have easy cheap access to what they want... And fact of the matter is the only people who don't want it to pass are the people already bending the laws and making a killing off of sick people... All of the good old school growers I know are getting ready to pass clones for 1$ a piece and selling 8ths of dank for 25$... <--And that my friends is the reason for the NO votes... 15-20$ a clone, and 40-60$ and 8th... Hey if I was a lowlife selling overpriced pot to sick people and making a good living I'd vote no too... But since I just wanna be able to smoke weed grow some and not be harrased I vote yes... That simple.. I have yet to see a NO voter post a valid reason why, they just spew out more propaganda than the gov does.... Vote NO all u want the small majority of you parasites that live off of peoples pain will then become what you should've been all this time parasites... But if you are a true business man and good for the community guess what you will still be able to keep afloat... All this is gonna do is seperate the men from the boys...

 

[kmk420kali]

show me where it says there will no longer be probable cause to search a vehicle........

i think you guys are assuming?

Can you give me 1 legitimate reason to oppose this, without assuming??
Edit* Shit..let me continue...lol
If it is legal, it will not be probable cause for a search-- Now they may check you for drugged driving...but not just to search, based on smell alone, and dogs will be useless--

 

[krunchbubble]

Can you give me 1 legitimate reason to oppose this, without assuming??
Edit* Shit..let me continue...lol
If it is legal, it will not be probable cause for a search-- Now they may check you for drugged driving...but not just to search, based on smell alone, and dogs will be useless--

show me where it says this, in the prop 19 writing, or anything else that had to do with prop 19. if you cant, you are assuming.......

i am not assuming anything. cops are not just going to let you go if they smell pot, it will still illegal to possess over an ounce......

you think they all of a sudden there not going to give a shit?

you may posses alcohol, but if a cop smells it in your car, your car is getting searched and your getting breath tested.....

why would it be different with pot?

it just cracks me up, the assumptions.......

reality is, no one knows what will happen, you, me and every other person......

 

[kmk420kali]

show me where it says this, in the prop 19 writing, or anything else that had to do with prop 19. if you cant, you are assuming.......

i am not assuming anything. cops are not just going to let you go if they smell pot, it will still illegal to possess over an ounce......

you think they all of a sudden there not going to give a shit?

you may posses alcohol, but if a cop smells it in your car, your car is getting searched and your getting breath tested.....

why would it be different with pot?

Because there is no Open Container law with Pot--
If you got pulled over...and the cop seen a gun under your jacket...and you have a Permit to carry it...they cannot just search the rest of your car...to see if there are more guns--
They must follow Protocol--

 

[PanchoBuddah]

The only ones who dont want it legal are people who are making big profits. Including our government.

They are already making billions off us by arrest, and the war on drugs, making marinol a 1000 dollars for a month perscription. DEA, pharma companys, among 1000s of others who are profiting on it being Illegal.

And this is why 19 won't pass. I'm not saying that's how I want it, but it's something beyond our reach at the moment. All these big agencies and corporations will pay to have it NOT pass. They don't want to lose profits.. Obama won't support shit. He's a puppet to the White men... Damn this Nazi-goverment!!!

 

[krunchbubble]

Because there is no Open Container law with Pot--
If you got pulled over...and the cop seen a gun under your jacket...and you have a Permit to carry it...they cannot just search the rest of your car...to see if there are more guns--
They must follow Protocol--

6th time asking........

where does it say in prop 19 about this?

whats the protocol with pot if prop 19 passes?

oh, thats right, there is NONE!

 

[kmk420kali]

6th time asking........

where does it say in prop 19 about this?

whats the protocol with pot if prop 19 passes?

oh, thats right, there is NONE!

Where does it say they will have the Right to search you because of smell, if 19 passes??
100th time asking...why exactly do you plan on voting No on this Prop?? What is so bad about it...it doesn't create utopia...but it takes nothing away from us...while giving (Granted not enough) Rights to Cannabis users--

 

[krunchbubble]

Where does it say they will have the Right to search you because of smell, if 19 passes??
100th time asking...why exactly do you plan on voting No on this Prop?? What is so bad about it...it doesn't create utopia...but it takes nothing away from us...while giving (Granted not enough) Rights to Cannabis users--

it does not. but its the law now, its not going to change because of the passing of prop 19, unless it says it in the text......

it does not just go away........

i have many reasons why i have said i dont want prop 19 to pass....my main reasons is its to flawed to begin with, with to many restrictions.....

i know you will say, but there is Tom Ammiano's bill.......

true! but goes to show how fucked prop 19 is when there is already an amendment before it passes!

 

[kmk420kali]

it does not. but its the law now, its not going to change because of the passing of prop 19, unless it says it in the text......

it does not just go away........

i have many reasons why i have said i dont want prop 19 to pass....my main reasons is its to flawed to begin with, with to many restrictions.....

i know you will say, but there is Tom Ammiano's bill.......

true! but goes to show how fucked prop 19 is when there is already an amendment before it passes!

Bro...would you check out this vid?? It is, "Joint Informational Hearing on Proposition 19"..it is a very calm, and fact driven...even tho there are some Opinions given there... it is very long, but, IMO...worth watching--

https://www.calchannel.com/channel/viewvideo/1758

 

[BlueberryLovr]

Cops have probable cause if they smell mj. If 19 passes, they will still have it. They'd wanna see if you're under the carrying limit. It isn't fully decriminalized. We just get slapped with a bunch of restrictions.

Regardless of the passing of 19, mj will still be illegal under federal law. Would be fun to see how this plays out--assuming 19 even manages to pass.

 

[CARE giver]

I'm voting Yes also.

It's been over 35 years since we had a legalization initiative on the ballot. I'm not young enough to wait another 35 years to introduce another one. Let's pass Prop 19 NOW and work on it to improve it as it evolves.

Don't let this chance go to waste. The time is NOW.

Very well put.

I really hope prop 19 gets passed. That means if California can have pot, then every other state has a chance. Don't screw this up for generations to come because of greed.

 

[Herborizer]

6th time asking........

where does it say in prop 19 about this?

whats the protocol with pot if prop 19 passes?

oh, thats right, there is NONE!

And we could never have one out of the gate. If that's what you are waiting for, it will never happen. Those types of issues are supplemental bills.

 

[rives]

i know you will say, but there is Tom Ammiano's bill.......

true! but goes to show how fucked prop 19 is when there is already an amendment before it passes!

Remember when 215 was passed how there were wildly differing enforcements, opinions, etc until 420 nailed things down? This is exactly why Ammiano has come up with his bill - to nail down all of the "gray areas" without a seven year lag. This is typical of voter propositions - they are intentionally loosely worded to get the intent across, and then the details are worked out in assembly bills.