504W Independent Test with LED Grow Lights

[LEDGirl]

If more than 2 LED's fails in the unit while it is under warranty, we will send a new unit out to replace it. If a LED burns out/fails, it does not effect the performance of the other LED's in the product. Replacing it would require soldering, which is not the easiest fix, and that's also why we simply tend to ship out a new product

 

[wintermute]

I'm wondering if anyone has figured out a way to take pics under these LEDs so that they appear normal colored (if that's even possible).

NASA uses a chromaticity shifting / normalization technique for photos from Mars and other such situations. Not sure if there is a Photoshop / Gimp filter to do the same. Perhaps manually tweaking via color levels could get you an approximation but that is a lot of work!

 

[growclean]

You should be able to run 4, 318W on a single 20 amp breaker without a problem. Honestly, you should be able to run a few more than that if you needed to

That is awesome. I would drill this into people because it is one of the many reasons that I am considering these right now. I am going to try to do all the reading I can in the next couple of days, but I was about to walk in to order a 1000w magnum xxxl (followed up by 3 more soon!) and with digital ballast and light was going to be looking at ~ $700. So, depending on shipping, a 318w would be around $1200 I am guessing. So $500 more. But the new room I am building was going to require new wiring to run the 4 lights, fans, ac, etc. But with these I could just keep the outlets that are already there, and skip out on light cooling? If the results are real, then it seems too good to be true. Now I just wish I didn't already put in 12' ceilings!

Can anyone else that has used the 318s chime in? Anyone with the 30 degree?

LEDGirl, Do you still suggest a t-5 for cloning? What about veging? Is this spectrum best suited just for flowering?

Super Curious about all this,
Thanks!

 

[StickyFingerz]

Dry weight always...

Awesome!

 

[LEDGirl]

That is awesome. I would drill this into people because it is one of the many reasons that I am considering these right now. I am going to try to do all the reading I can in the next couple of days, but I was about to walk in to order a 1000w magnum xxxl (followed up by 3 more soon!) and with digital ballast and light was going to be looking at ~ $700. So, depending on shipping, a 318w would be around $1200 I am guessing. So $500 more. But the new room I am building was going to require new wiring to run the 4 lights, fans, ac, etc. But with these I could just keep the outlets that are already there, and skip out on light cooling? If the results are real, then it seems too good to be true. Now I just wish I didn't already put in 12' ceilings!

LEDGirl, Do you still suggest a t-5 for cloning? What about veging? Is this spectrum best suited just for flowering?

With 4,000W HID you would need A/C and ventilation (and like you mentioned custom wiring). For 4 of our 318W units, you won't need A/C (except maybe intermittently during the summer), and there is no need for ventilation or custom wiring. The amount you'll save year 1 on electricity (over 3500W per hour) and bulbs is more than the initial cost difference between the two lighting sources.

Our lights are made for designed for all stages of growth. They work great from clone to harvest, and contain more than sufficient red to promote robust flowering. Plants vegged under our LED's tend to be bushier, have thicker stems, and produce tight internodal spacing. To my knowledge a customer of mine currently using the 318W will be posting a journal on these forums soon.

 

[dongle69]

I'm getting a little confused as to what size units are accurate replacements for HID lighting.
Would it be (2) 318 watt LED's vs a 1,000 watt hps for a 4x4 area?
What would you recommend for a 8ft x 12ft canopy of 2ft tall plants?

 

[LEDGirl]

I'm getting a little confused as to what size units are accurate replacements for HID lighting.
Would it be (2) 318 watt LED's vs a 1,000 watt hps for a 4x4 area?
What would you recommend for a 8ft x 12ft canopy of 2ft tall plants?

The 318W is a 1000W replacement unit in terms of what it is capable of yielding (1lbs+). This does not mean it can cover the same area as a 1000W HID, as LED's are not designed like HID's to cover large areas with 1 super bright bulb. Instead they use multiple 1W LED's spread out on a board to create coverage. If you were to spread the light from each 1W source over the same area that a HID would cover (say even 4' x 4'), it has very little energy and intensity to be very beneficial for your plants.

So understand that LED is a completely new technology, and the only reason we give a comparison rating is that everyone is currently used to HID. It's not because they necessarily compare on all levels, simply what they can yield. If you want a more economical way of covering larger areas, 3 x 126W units would make an excellent replacement for a 1000W HID as well.

My general recommendation for a 4' x 4' area is 4 x 126W units, as it will provide a more even spread of light vs 2 of the 318W units. 2 x 318W will give you more watts per square foot though, so it's really up to you on just how big you'd want to go. Either way you go with a comparison, it doesn't matter how many watts HID to LED, all that matters is the end result: grams per watt. You can make a comparison based on that for any wattage level. For example, if you do .6grams per watt with your HID and 1.8grams per watt with our LED, you can see that our units are at least 3x more efficient. Then you can take that multiplier and run it on any of our lights: 126W x 3 = 378W HID, 318W x 3 = 954W HID, etc...

 

[dongle69]

So 24 x 126w units would be good for a 8x12 area with 2ft tall plants?

 

[LEDGirl]

So 24 x 126w units would be good for a 8x12 area with 2ft tall plants?

Sorry, I forgot to respond to that lol!

You would want 20-25 units (5 rows of 4, or 5 rows of 5) for an 8x12 area with 2 foot tall plants, assuming you are using the entire space for plant growth.

 

[Rouge]

mmm...... you are almost there LEDGirl. Namely the 126 watt unit. When the specs get to less than 100 watts, equivalent output to a 600 watts HID, and configurable either vertically or horizontally...... pots to vary each output, uv, and priced for less than I can build one, you'll have me. I can dream, can't I? In the meantime, I am drooling.

 

[growclean]

The 318W is a 1000W replacement unit in terms of what it is capable of yielding (1lbs+). This does not mean it can cover the same area as a 1000W HID....

....If you want a more economical way of covering larger areas, 3 x 126W units would make an excellent replacement for a 1000W HID as well.

My general recommendation for a 4' x 4' area is 4 x 126W units, as it will provide a more even spread of light vs 2 of the 318W units. 2 x 318W will give you more watts per square foot though, so it's really up to you on just how big you'd want to go. Either way you go with a comparison, it doesn't matter how many watts HID to LED, all that matters is the end result: grams per watt. You can make a comparison based on that for any wattage level. For example, if you do .6grams per watt with your HID and 1.8grams per watt with our LED, you can see that our units are at least 3x more efficient. Then you can take that multiplier and run it on any of our lights: 126W x 3 = 378W HID, 318W x 3 = 954W HID, etc...

Ok, so this changes the premises for my calculation then. So I understand that you are stating that you get a higher yield per watt. But one 318w led does NOT replace a 1000w HPS in terms of actuall plants grown? So to actually replace a 1000w HPS I would want 4 X 126w units? But then I should expect a higher yield from those same plants?? But really to actually replace the 4 X 1000w HPS I would want 16 of the 126w LEDs or 8 318w LEDs right?

So 16 X $400 = $6400 + shipping 2016 watts
and 8 X $1100 = $8800 + shipping 2544 watts

HPS 4 X $700 = $2800 + fans/wiring/ac 4000 watts

so with the 126w LEDs, we get a savings of 1984 watts / 1000 (convert to kwh) = 1.984 X 12 hours a day x 365 days a year = 8690 X .0563260 (my max kwh rate) = $490 a year savings

replacement bulbs HPS 4 X $125 = $600

So I would save $1100 per year X 4 years (when you said LEDs would reach only 90% output) = $4400

So if I can afford the initial outlay, they will pay for themselves in 4 years. This is not taking into account the savings from running the additional fans and ac.

The added benefit is that you claim that I should actually have superior yields using the LEDs? Is that still true with the lower penetration of the 126w units or just the 318w?

Sorry to get so detailed here, but I am REALLY interested in using LEDs instead, but I need to order equipment soon, so I am trying to get it nailed down. Still a little nervous to jump on the new technology.

Thanks!

 

[dongle69]

I'm in the same situation but my figures are different...
My 1,000 watt HPS ballasts/reflectors/bulbs were $320. 6x320= $1920.
I pay $65 each for replacement bulbs so 6x65=$390
So my hps is $3090 for the first 4 years and $390 a year after that.
24 126w led = $9600+ every 4 years.
Electricity savings would be about $1500 a year for the led's.
So there is no monetary savings for me with led's over time.
They would have to perform way better for me to hassle with 24 fixtures in my room.
I'm hoping to see a larger scale led grow...

 

[Thundurkel]

I want to see if I can rock a 63w one in a 2.4 sqft space I have and get HID sized bud's with my CFL QUALITY and POTENCY and I'd fuckin have a room of stacked cabs on different cycles each cab pulling 1/4 - 1/2 a week .... I bet I'd peek somebody's interest with grow system..

 

[growclean]

I'm in the same situation but my figures are different...
My 1,000 watt HPS hoods/reflector/bulbs were $320. 6x320= $1920.
I pay $65 each for replacement bulbs so 6x65=$390
So my hps is $3090 for the first 4 years and $390 a year after that.
24 126w led = $9600+ every 4 years.
Electricity savings would be about $1500 a year for the led's.
So there is no monetary savings for me with led's over time.
They would have to perform way better for me to hassle with 24 fixtures in my room.
I'm hoping to see a larger scale led grow...

Dongle,
First, by the way, I appreciate your posts on your current operation. I have read through your thread so many times to help me even be where I am, so THANK YOU.

Don't forget ballast costs in your calculations. That is where I was getting my total of ~ $700 = 1000w magnum xxxls, digital ballasts and bulbs.

You brough up another consideration that can both be a positive and a negative of the LEDs. There are no bulbs to change, so we are not paying the annual cost of bulbs, but that annual costs of bulbs guarantees a continual fresh light source. We can be running these same ballasts/reflectors in 10 years and just have a brand new set of bulbs in them. With the LEDs, you are going to have to buy completely new units eventually, thereby renewing our costs. Hopefully the costs will have come down by then I suppose.

I would also love to see a larger scale grow. LEDGirl, do you have any of your customers that are using somewhere around 16 to 24 126w LEDs and may be able to share their experience or already has on another forum?

 

[dongle69]

My mistake, it should have read ballasts/reflectors/bulbs.
Still $320...
I'll edit and fix.
Thanks!

 

[medmaker420]

deleted

 

[LEDGirl]

Ok, so this changes the premises for my calculation then. So I understand that you are stating that you get a higher yield per watt. But one 318w led does NOT replace a 1000w HPS in terms of actuall plants grown? So to actually replace a 1000w HPS I would want 4 X 126w units? But then I should expect a higher yield from those same plants?? But really to actually replace the 4 X 1000w HPS I would want 16 of the 126w LEDs or 8 318w LEDs right?

I'm not one to care much about how many plants each light grows, since it usually takes people at least twice the plants to match what I do in terms of yield. I think a lot of growers are too caught up most of the time, on variables that don't make a whole lot of sense to me. For medical gardeners like myself, we're after the MAX amount we can yield on a single plant within a small space, not trying to fill a room with plants under a single 1000W, and hope each plant to gives us an ounce. So in terms of YIELD (what the light can actually produce as an end product) it will match or beat a 1000W HID. This means that if you were running a 4' x 4' area with 16 plants under HID, and only 8 plants in a 4' x 2' area with our LED, you'd get the same or better yield with our 8 plants, than you would with your 16. So help me understand, why does plant count matter if it's really all about yield? Switching to LED may simply allow you to reduce your garden size while maintaining equal or better results using far less power and plants...

Replacing your 1000W in terms of coverage area, you would want 4, 126W units to do so. The 504W of LED will certainly outperform the 1000W HID, and the penetrative power of ALL of our products is the same. Our 63W, 126W, and 318W are all built of the same "light engines", simply varying amounts of them. The difference between our units is simply how many watts per square foot they provide within their footprint. The 126W is our most economical in terms of covering large areas, and will provide you with results like you've seen in the grows I've posted.

 

[Seismic]

Good point on the plant numbers LEDGirl, sometimes its not easier to take care of fewer large plants, but god forbid if you ever got busted, the lower plant count come come in handy. Take care everyone, and good info LEDGirl

 

[medmaker420]

deleted

 

[LEDGirl]

I'm in the same situation but my figures are different...
My 1,000 watt HPS ballasts/reflectors/bulbs were $320. 6x320= $1920.
I pay $65 each for replacement bulbs so 6x65=$390
So my hps is $3090 for the first 4 years and $390 a year after that.
24 126w led = $9600+ every 4 years.
Electricity savings would be about $1500 a year for the led's.
So there is no monetary savings for me with led's over time.
They would have to perform way better for me to hassle with 24 fixtures in my room.
I'm hoping to see a larger scale led grow...

My 1000W HPS units were $650 retail, and my 1000W MH were $770. I was using Galaxy Digital Ballasts, Sun System YieldMasterII 6" hoods, and Hortilux Super HPS or Blue MH bulbs. At $320 did your 1000W units come with a vented hood? And at $65 what brand of bulb are you using? Not to mention, how much was your A/C unit, your A/C electric use, and ventilation systems combined? Components and how they are put together make a lot of difference as to the efficiency of any lighting setup and the total cost to operate it over time.

As far as changing out the units in 4 years, what is the reasoning for that? I don't know ANYONE that changes a HID when it's at 90% of it's original brightness, so why would you want to with LED? I guess if money was no option, then fine, but these things can go 10+ years in a bloom room without needing replaced.