5 ton central AC debate! whats the deal with Excel?

[Yes4Prop215]

I searched and could not find any real discussion on Excel 5 ton central AC units. I saw some controversy that excel really just buys York parts and remarkets them as fancy expensive grow room Acs, is this true?

I am in the market for 12 tons of central AC cooling, spread out over three 4 ton units. for sake of argument and because its the industry standard, lets just talk about a 5ton unit. if they have good 5 tons, their 4 tons are probably good too.

Should i pay the extra money for the Excel unit? they run about 6k each so it would cost be 18k total.

Or would a york, goodman, or rheum 4 ton do the trick nicely for half the price.

one thing i like about the excel is that they turn into de-hueys when the lights are off so i don't need to buy any commercial de-hueys. i also hear that their customer service is great and i have heard from plenty of people that they work great, it just comes down to the higher price point. is it truly worth it?

 

[watts]

York affinity are good models. They also have a commercial line called york predator.

 

[krunchbubble]

PROP, my boy OWNS his own HVAC business, he sets up our rooms....

 

[StinKyFinGerS]

Yes4 prop,

I have a 5 ton excel that i been running for 2 yrs now. paid 6k for mine. it is manufactured by York, however the catch is the homeownwer can install it rather then having an HVAC person do it....Freon in the line is closed off somehow until one screws both sides on and its good to go. i think the price we pay for is in stealth, otherwise i would have gone with a brand with better reviews.

My room: (16) 1k lights in a daylight basement. 16'x10', completely insulated, not completely sealed.

works well with containing my temps at 75-78f, lots of air coming in when lights are off.

Im pulling air from my gararage / basement rather then re-circulating air, which means my humidity will change based on air im pulling in...if i re-circulated air i would be able to control humidity better. (take note)
It does pull humidity out a lot, however i have a commercial dehumidy that assists with the process. Due to the design of my basement it would be extremely difficult for me to get large enough (custome made) hvac ducting to do a re-circ. Also, i live in a pretty wet environment, however if your outside environment is more dry then one may not need to re-circ.. lastly, i would suggest purchasing a seperate thermostat. The one they give you works, but i need something more detailed due to the design of my room.
In conclusion: great unit for my space, heating does not work great but is not a big issue when im looking to cool and dehumidify 70% of the year. re-circulating would work better for me to stabilize my temp and humidity better. And be prepared to push out a lot of air because this unit will pull in tons of air. One last thing, very important! If u do not use a re-circulating system, change out your air filters monthly.

Hope this helps.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

PROP, my boy OWNS his own HVAC business, he sets up our rooms....

hmm il have to holler at you, my friend helping build the rooms is also certified HVAC but he doesn't own a shop, so I've hollered at lumpstatus and gonna talk to my local hydro shop about ordering as well. can your homie order one and i can pay him cash? il drop you a message…

would like to talk to him and see what he would recommend for 12k of cooling.

 

[krunchbubble]

can your homie order one and i can pay him cash? il drop you a message…

Of course!!! He is my boy from WAY back, he is good folks...

 

[budleydoright]

I understand the exel has the compressor mounted in it's own case to reduce noise.

 

[Holdin']

HVAC professional here...

You're right, it's just York (also Coleman) equipment, which is manufactured by Johnson Controls, with added "plug and play" valves for DIY installation. $6,000 is absolutely absurd... it pretty much is summed up by exactly what you said, it's just cheap Johnson Controls equipment slapped with a new label and couple extra parts and triple the price. In the HVAC world, this is pretty much low-end equipment. Even the "14 SEER" (slightly better efficiency than the 13 SEER) is still mediocre at best. Most units are fitted with reciprocating compressors which aren't quite as noisy as a scroll, but that's about all they've got going for them when comparing to low-end equipment. I can buy this same exact, 5 ton equipment wholesale with a Coleman label on it for $1700 dollars, condenser and air handler. Just to give you an idea...

You can get Goodman equipment for 1/3 of the price... near wholesale... and it's very available to the public around that price. Pay a growroom friendly HVAC fella to install it. Goodman is certainly in the low-end spectrum of HVAC equipment, but it's very simple and basic, parts are very readily available, they are fairly good about honoring warranties (which is a 5 year manuf. warranty just like most low-mid range equip) and as long as it's installed properly, it will do what you need it to do.

Good luck man! 12 tons of cooling sounds like a fucking awesome endeavor, I'd set it up for you if I wasn't so far away

 

[Yes4Prop215]

thanks for the insight holdin, glad i found about that makes total sense and a good business venture idea lol excel seems to have that corner on lock not even ideal makes 5 tons...whats a company with better quality than goodman? something in that high end spectrum…i don't want to skimp on AC its a very important part of the engine that makes up a grow room. I'm running e-pap lighting so people have warned me about increased BTU load so i am oversizing my units. normally i would go with 36k btu per 8-10kw but i decided to just go with 48k. I'm not in a very high heat environment moderate temps usually never tops 80 outside.

im also entertaining the thought of running a 7.5ton central for the 16 light room, but i like the idea of having two 4 tons because i can direct air over each row of lights.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

so is it possible to buy a goodman/any other brand besides excel, and add the upgraded parts like special compressor installed by them, or do i have to source all these parts separately and have someone do a custom install?

don't really need the plug n play option since i have an hvac but i do like the quieter and higher end parts.

 

[organiclover]

Holdin - what is a high end HVAC unit ?

 

[Snype]

Holdin - what is a high end HVAC unit ?

I'd also like to know the answer to this question.

 

[the gnome]

HVAC professional here...

You're right, it's just York (also Coleman) equipment, which is manufactured by Johnson Controls, with added "plug and play" valves for DIY installation. $6,000 is absolutely absurd... it pretty much is summed up by exactly what you said, it's just cheap Johnson Controls equipment slapped with a new label and couple extra parts and triple the price. In the HVAC world, this is pretty much low-end equipment. Even the "14 SEER" (slightly better efficiency than the 13 SEER) is still mediocre at best. Most units are fitted with reciprocating compressors which aren't quite as noisy as a scroll, but that's about all they've got going for them when comparing to low-end equipment. I can buy this same exact, 5 ton equipment wholesale with a Coleman label on it for $1700 dollars, condenser and air handler. Just to give you an idea...

You can get Goodman equipment for 1/3 of the price... near wholesale... and it's very available to the public around that price. Pay a growroom friendly HVAC fella to install it. Goodman is certainly in the low-end spectrum of HVAC equipment, but it's very simple and basic, parts are very readily available, they are fairly good about honoring warranties (which is a 5 year manuf. warranty just like most low-mid range equip) and as long as it's installed properly, it will do what you need it to do.

this is common through out a lot of manufacturers,
they same washing machine/clothes dryer are made in 1 place and when they're at the end of the assembly line there's a guys that has 4 different labels to put on em...
ammana...hot point...kenmore... etc etc

i but in the gro scene the markups are crazy.
like the Co2 water gen at the hydro sites for $$300plus
i got the same exact thing,
knobs, controls, everything the same except a plastic cover and sticker for $112

even the solenoid to connect to tap is $59 @gro site and i go the same thing fro amazon for $33

 

[Storm Shadow]

Prop go with the Goodman bro... My fucken units are not even on all the time and my temps are in the low 70's... 1 of the 4 tons is keeping the room perfect...

Get dual thermostats and set them to be a degree or 2 different from one another...that way your units cycle on/off

Don't forget a Low Ambient kit either...or once it reaches below 65degrees outside, your compressor will freeze over without it...

Make sure your Blower has a High CFM rating ... it helps a lot!

 

[Yes4Prop215]

does goodman ship with the low ambient kit pre-installed or do i need hvac to do it.

also what is typically recommended. air handler inside the room or outside? i saw your grow was setup outside SS, and ducted through the drywall. what is the size of this duct so i can estimate the holes i gotta cut. since my rooms are long runs i will need to have some 12inch on the ceiling with vents running the length of the room. I've eyed that special fabric filter thing that excel had, are these worthless or better compared to standard sheet metal ducting.

 

[budleydoright]

HVAC professional here...

You're right, it's just York (also Coleman) equipment, which is manufactured by Johnson Controls, with added "plug and play" valves for DIY installation. $6,000 is absolutely absurd... it pretty much is summed up by exactly what you said, it's just cheap Johnson Controls equipment slapped with a new label and couple extra parts and triple the price. In the HVAC world, this is pretty much low-end equipment. Even the "14 SEER" (slightly better efficiency than the 13 SEER) is still mediocre at best. Most units are fitted with reciprocating compressors which aren't quite as noisy as a scroll, but that's about all they've got going for them when comparing to low-end equipment. I can buy this same exact, 5 ton equipment wholesale with a Coleman label on it for $1700 dollars, condenser and air handler. Just to give you an idea...

You can get Goodman equipment for 1/3 of the price... near wholesale... and it's very available to the public around that price. Pay a growroom friendly HVAC fella to install it. Goodman is certainly in the low-end spectrum of HVAC equipment, but it's very simple and basic, parts are very readily available, they are fairly good about honoring warranties (which is a 5 year manuf. warranty just like most low-mid range equip) and as long as it's installed properly, it will do what you need it to do.

Good luck man! 12 tons of cooling sounds like a fucking awesome endeavor, I'd set it up for you if I wasn't so far away

Their prices are up there, but those re-sealable refrigeration fittings cost about 150.00 per connection and the unit has at least four of them. Their products ship from Canada which no doubt ads to the cost and it is turn key for the most part. I doubt anyone is getting rich here.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

any specific models to look for?

it seems most units are horizontal but i would really like a vertical style unit like StormShadow posted for space constraint issues. two big ass 4 ton horizontal units is gonna take a bunch of space….i need something to installs vertically like an Excel unit.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

something like this…

instead of this

 

[budleydoright]

Top pict looks like the air handler of a split and the bottom pict is an all in one.

Most air handlers including the Excel Air units can be mounted either way.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

Haha oh right my bad posted the wrong pic, not gonna go with the all in one don't have the room for that.