4th grow in Promix - I still suck - Help

[Jonnysact]

update:

The plants were doing very well for about 1.5 weeks. I saw incredible new growth, leaves going very green. In the last week and a half, things have slowed down. Leave have become very, very dark with some deficiencies popping up. All my new green stems have gone pruple again. Growth has slowed down.

Today they just got water, no nutes.

plant 1) 6.5 in 5.8 out @ 700ppm
plant 2) 6.5 in 5.7 out @ 500ppm
plant 3) 6.5 in 6.4 out........ @ 300ppm VERY brown runoff....

Thought I was on track to something great here, but it turns out that's not the case.

Also, about that dolomite lime? Does it raise the PH of your medium as the medium dries?

 

[Chimera]

Still same problem, your pH is crashing and you are experiencing Mg lockout! This is a classic Mg deficiency; brown splotches on the leaves, limey green growth, brittle leaves etc.

If you are adding water @ 6.5 and it is coming out @ 5.7/5.8, the actual pH of the medium is probably around 5.2 or 5.3... way too low for cannabis...

 

[MrBungle]

how are you mixing up your nutrients?

 

[Jonnysact]

Still same problem, your pH is crashing and you are experiencing Mg lockout! This is a classic Mg deficiency; brown splotches on the leaves, limey green growth, brittle leaves etc.

If you are adding water @ 6.5 and it is coming out @ 5.7/5.8, the actual pH of the medium is probably around 5.2 or 5.3... way too low for cannabis...

Damn. I thought this stuff had Dol Lime in it to swing PH back up? If you wouldn't mind, I've been dying to understand dolomite lime: Does it raise the PH of your medium as it dries? Or should its effect be noticeable in the runoff?

Mr Bungle, I only gave water this time, but last time I fed I checked my water ppm @140. Fed nutes until I got 500ppm. Checked the water PH at it was at 6.7/6.8 and simply watered with that.

 

[Bwanabud]

Still same problem, your pH is crashing and you are experiencing Mg lockout! This is a classic Mg deficiency; brown splotches on the leaves, limey green growth, brittle leaves etc.

If you are adding water @ 6.5 and it is coming out @ 5.7/5.8, the actual pH of the medium is probably around 5.2 or 5.3... way too low for cannabis...

Yuuup

 

[Chimera]

http://www.braenstone.com/2014/12/agricultural-lime-vs-dolomite-lime/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolomite

I'm not going to re-write what is written all over, but ^^ there are some basics facts of dolomite lime. Google "dolomite lime" and you have hours of reading. Also read the above link on Ag-lime vs dolomite lime.

Think about where dolomite lime comes from; it's essentially a powdered rock. Rocks are hard, and don't easily dissolve... they weather in nature over Millenia so it's not an instant cure to your problem in a container garden. The weathering and release of the component minerals is a super slow release process however - and you need a quick fix - which is why I suggested the drastic high pH rinse last time.

I can't stress enough that you need to raise the pH of your soil. Mg is locked right out at such a low pH. Normally a high pH rinse is a stress on the root system, but you really have no choice other than correct the soil pH or watch your plants continue to suffer. Make a 500 ppm nutrient solution with about 100-200 ppm being epsom salts. Rinse water through the soil equal to multiple volumes of your pot size. Again, make sure you are watering 15% of the water through the container on every watering.

Make sure your pH pen is calibrated according to the manufacturer directions using fresh calibration solution.

Last time I didn't mention you can also do a foliar feed and bypass the roots with a mild Epsom salts foliar spray, from the underside of he leaves. This will help, but is only a quick shot fix and not a permanent one - if you don't address the ongoing pH problem, you will keep having the same result.

-Chimera

 

[Jonnysact]

Thanks again Chimera. Damn, I thought I was on to something for a bit. I'll continue to raise the PH until things continue the way they did for a brief period of time.

 

[rykus]

Although I am in 1000% agreement with everything Chimera said, I will still caution that a plant that is unable to effectively drink enough liqued from being water to 15% run off in under 3 days will experience serious root issues from lack of oxygen causing death and even contributing to ph flux in extreme circumstances... And example is I grow in 15 gallon containers, if I water even once to run off before my plant is over 2 feet tall I might as well throw it in the garbage!

So that IS NOT 100% accurate and if speaking with someone that has little experience differentiation between ph nutrient and soil toxicity as the form of lock out, can lead to more problems and frustrations....

IMO your plant is too small for the medium and in either too low of light or too cold of temperatures to even think about watering to run out!

Seriously a sick plant that size in that pot I would be giving maybe a 100-200ml of feed at 1.5-2 EC /ph 6.5 every 2 days till the little windows in the bottom look dry isn, then maybe 500ml water at 7 with some micros and stress relievers...

But this is a public forum and you have very little to gauge people's insight so I would take a few of the same plants in same condition and experiment...

I won't be offended if I'm wrong but if I'm right your being your own worst enemy and the forum isn't helping,lol

Oh yeah, and also as both Chimera and myself have mentioned, folia r is an invaluable tool for fixing small nutrient/root transport issues with folia r feeding... I like seaweed like growth plus and my micros that are easier locked out by PH or cation/anion imbalance like cal/mg... Even spray every day till soil can be fed again will get nutrients in without further complicating your learning curve on water application, lol

Good luck! And if you are convinced about watering to run out, use smallish containers and use WAY more perlite in vegative stages till plants are established and drinking.... Like 50% +!

 

[darthcultivator]

9 pages of advice and still have the same problem. Atleast you hit the nail on the head with your thread title. maybe try reading your own thread again and put some of what people said into practice instead of asking question after question when they have already been answered.

 

[Bwanabud]

9 pages of advice and still have the same problem. Atleast you hit the nail on the head with your thread title. maybe try reading your own thread again and put some of what people said into practice instead of asking question after question when they have already been answered.

Yuuup, some people won't listen or heed solid advice...thus sensory overload.

And after you an others offer detailed advice, he responds with this:

I'm sorry for giving you guys too much to process.

 

[chronosync]

Damn...

 

[Jonnysact]

In retrospect that does sound rough, I apologize. But my response was literal, not sarcastic.

There is indeed great advice in this thread. Once my plants started bouncing back after taking the advice given, I thought I was supposed to continue a regime that was incorrect. That being, once the runoff was getting back to a good place (between 6.3-6.8), I assumed that I could now continue my watering and feed regime at around 6.5-6.8. But I see now that the runoff has dipped back down again. That is all that's happened really.

Cheers, let's leave the salt for another thread please. If you have nothing good or nice to say, see yourself out I am only here to learn, not deal with internet trolls who enjoy voicing their frustration due to impatience. But I imagine I'll have to deal with those too, all the same.

 

[Bwanabud]

In retrospect that does sound rough, I apologize. But my response was literal, not sarcastic.

There is indeed great advice in this thread. Once my plants started bouncing back after taking the advice given, I thought I was supposed to continue a regime that was incorrect. That being, once the runoff was getting back to a good place (between 6.3-6.8), I assumed that I could now continue my watering and feed regime at around 6.5-6.8. But I see now that the runoff has dipped back down again. That is all that's happened really.

Cheers, let's leave the salt for another thread please. If you have nothing good or nice to say, see yourself out I am only here to learn, not deal with internet trolls who enjoy voicing their frustration due to impatience. But I imagine I'll have to deal with those too, all the same.

Wow ! I'd move onto tomato plants or Chia pets if I was you

 

[Jonnysact]

Hey all,

it's been a while since I've updated. I wanted to give the ladies some time to see if given the help I received I could get them to bounce back again.

One of the two of my ladies seems to be doing much better while the other one is lagging a bit behind. I'm managed to get my runoff to come out a little higher but still requiring me to water at a very high ph.

Still a little rough but here she is! Transplanted her to a 2 gal container two days ago with some coco i'm using in a new grow and will be flipping her in about a week. Thanks again!

 

[Tynehead Tom]

I'd say that's progress and the advice given here hasn't been wasted.
good for you man, keep on truckin

 

[Chimera]

It's still suffering from Mg shortage, not as bad but the problem persists. Foliar spray with Epsom salts, and keep flushing with a high pH-H2O until you are seeing healthy green growth.

And while I agree with rykus that the plant was too small for the pot size to flush in an ideal world, it's a matter of priorities imo. With the pH too low, the plant would just get worse. If it were me, I would fix the pH first.

That plant needs to be taken to a bath tub and have the soil rinsed through with pH 8-8.5 water until the runoff hits 7. Readjust the water, and then water through with pH 7.5 (350 ppm total, 100 ppm Epsom salts) until you hit 7. If you do this, the plant will bounce back with healthy green growth. If you don't fix the issue the plant will continue on with this lime green color and the harvest will suffer in terms of both yield and quality.

 

[Tynehead Tom]

I thought maybe it was just his lighting/camera, but I do still see the contrast in his leaves suggesting exactly what yer saying Chimera. Still, a vast improvement showing he's headed in the right direction
O.P. yer getting fantastic advice in this thread and when I say keep on truckin.... I mean keep on soakin it up from the pros

 

[sourpuss]

Yeah 1 lucky dude getting the goods from the man himself... im reading and absorbing everything chimera is sayin... respect... not many breeders take the time to help and spread growing knowledge..

 

[Jonnysact]

It's still suffering from Mg shortage, not as bad but the problem persists. Foliar spray with Epsom salts, and keep flushing with a high pH-H2O until you are seeing healthy green growth.

And while I agree with rykus that the plant was too small for the pot size to flush in an ideal world, it's a matter of priorities imo. With the pH too low, the plant would just get worse. If it were me, I would fix the pH first.

That plant needs to be taken to a bath tub and have the soil rinsed through with pH 8-8.5 water until the runoff hits 7. Readjust the water, and then water through with pH 7.5 (350 ppm total, 100 ppm Epsom salts) until you hit 7. If you do this, the plant will bounce back with healthy green growth. If you don't fix the issue the plant will continue on with this lime green color and the harvest will suffer in terms of both yield and quality.

I will give this a try. The plant was flushed recently, should I attempt doing this before feeding or flush again? It will have been a while since she was fed. I imagine the priority is ph over feeding but i just want to confirm before moving ahead. I find it amazing this promix is making me do this . Loving my new coco's though what i put in is what comes out.

Thanks guys. And I have been spraying but i guess it's not doing enough Should i be getting the underside of the leaves?

 

[Tynehead Tom]

the problem with the promixes and sunshine mixes is everything can look great until it doesn't and noticing the first signs and correcting right away before feeding again has been critical to my own journey. I took a decade absence from having to worry about PH and PPm's and just grew a good organic mix outside and straight rain water from a barrel.
I'm running my own re-learning curve over here in the sunshine mix so am also soaking in the info being thrown down here. though it's more of a refresher for me.