400W MH flood light fixture. Need bulb replacement input!

[Drop That Sound]

Here it is, suitable for wet/damp locations, I believe with pulse start? and an M59 bulb socket.

I have had it for awhile and used it once several years ago, bolted to the wall inside a garage.. slightly tilted up, and vegged some beautiful looking starts, and it's been sitting ever since.

I would like to have it as a supplemental\backup light\seasonal extra flowering fixture.. and wondering what bulbs would work best for mostly flowering? I heard the 4000Ks work good but unsure if I should use anything but the recommended bulb in this type of fixture. It does get pretty warm, but I want it too right now!

It's completely sealed but I could take the glass off if need be, or even add intake and exhaust flanges I suppose. I also wanna drill out and add some eye bolts so it can also hang from the top. I like that I could spray without hurting it though so rather leave sealed.

I have no idea the age of the bulb that's in it or even itself. Probably around 10 years, other than that it looks pretty standard and has a 400MH/U USA-8M-1 printed on the side of it.

Been wanting to try an all MH test run on my current strain, and also use it between my two 1000 HPS's to add a better spectrum with UVs to my flower room, when not in use otherwise.

Figure I can use it in my spare 3.5x3.5 multi purpose veg/flower/drying room right now over a little 2 plant coco scrog . Flip flopped to run during HPS lights out, instead of running a heater(s) for the rest of winter/spring, with no need to exhaust outside.. except back through my main work area and to the flower room, helping to keep it warmer, so I can kick my radiant oil heater down to the lowest setting. Might as well flower plants instead of waste heat right

Anyone have any suggestions on a decent bulb for the job, or use these fixtures to bloom before?

 

[Drop That Sound]

Ok so I am re-studying MH (been using t-5s for awhile now) and M59 is probe start.

Basically I can install any m59 (says ONLY M59) bulb and be alright then? What about m59/s and m59/e, etc? Got me all confused. I just want a cheap but decent 4000k bulb that will fire and last.

 

[Can of Bliss]

I'm not sure what the letter after m59 mean, but I think it'll be fine as long as the ANIC number starts with M59. And if not, hopefully someone will step in with an answer?

 

[Drop That Sound]

Finally found a few bulbs with just M59 code

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/88147/PX-MS400.html this plantmax should work good, amazon reviews suck for it though, the digi version anyway which I don't need. Also says 10,000 hour life while most are twice that..

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/63004/MH-49197.html?gclid=COfohaDfndICFdiXfgodxT0MoAand there is this bulb I found, it states that it is a m59 under the specs (comparison with the other bulbs), but m59/e at the top of the page.. this is the one I want, but having both m59 and m59/e on the same page is what it really confusing me..

 

[Drop That Sound]

ok just found this thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=148612

m59/e just means it needs an enclosed fixture, which is what I have.

Hi BP,

Light bulbs come with a letter designating what type fixture it needs to go in.
O = Open light fixture
E = Enclosed light fixture
S = Must be in Enclosed fixture unless vertical.

What this means is the O bulbs have more glass and can withstand explosion or mishap. Get these, yes they cost more.
The E and S bulbs need a light fixture to contain the quartz or hot glass in a mishap.

http://www.gelighting.com/na/busine...ature_library/catalogs/downloads/2008_hid.pdf

Page 10, General Information:Fixture Requirements

If your light fixture is completely enclosed and sealed, Yes.

Now hear is the thing that gets me, the eiko bulb has some "CRI" number that states it is 70, while all the comparison bulbs on 1000bulbs page listed as m59/e say CRI: 65..

What does CRI mean I wonder..?

 

[Drop That Sound]

OK, it stand for color rendering index, blah blah blah..

Do I want the CRI 70 or 65?

I think i'm way over thinking this all lol, but I am going to first try flowering with my flood light fixture so I want the best bulb that will work.

 

[growingcrazy]

You can purchase a Philips bulb at your local home depot.

 

[Drop That Sound]

You can purchase a Philips bulb at your local home depot.

Id rather pay 10-15 bucks with free shipping if possible, but 30 isn't to bad I guess for this bulb that is in stock http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...-SearchPLPHorizontal1_rr-_-NA-_-100054121-_-N

The only thing really stopping me from buying it is that it says its a "switch start", and doesn't specify m59.. I don't know if switch is different than probe or pulse?

It is warm white 4000k though so maybe i'll run down and pick one up, worst case if it doesn't fire is I just have to return it right? Shipping for a single bulb is the same as the bulb on most sites anyway unless I buy one off amazon.

If they allow returns on it I will just fork out the extra money (could buy 2 for that price online!) and get one tomorrow.

 

[Jhhnn]

Id rather pay 10-15 bucks with free shipping if possible, but 30 isn't to bad I guess for this bulb that is in stock http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...-SearchPLPHorizontal1_rr-_-NA-_-100054121-_-N

The only thing really stopping me from buying it is that it says its a "switch start", and doesn't specify m59.. I don't know if switch is different than probe or pulse?

It is warm white 4000k though so maybe i'll run down and pick one up, worst case if it doesn't fire is I just have to return it right? Shipping for a single bulb is the same as the bulb on most sites anyway unless I buy one off amazon.

If they allow returns on it I will just fork out the extra money (could buy 2 for that price online!) and get one tomorrow.

Switch start & probe start are the same thing. That Philips lamp should work fine as should a 400w metalarc series lamp from Sylvania. One of our contributors, Gnome, uses the Sylvania lamps exclusively at 1000w with excellent results.

This lamp probably offers the best spectrum for growing w/ MH ballasts-

https://www.bulbamerica.com/product...2&cadevice=c&gclid=CI3B6NTtotICFUW5wAodbfMJGA

It puts out the same amount of light as a standard 400w using less power w/ a broad spectrum.

 

[Drop That Sound]

Switch start & probe start are the same thing. That Philips lamp should work fine as should a 400w metalarc series lamp from Sylvania. One of our contributors, Gnome, uses the Sylvania lamps exclusively at 1000w with excellent results.

This lamp probably offers the best spectrum for growing w/ MH ballasts-

https://www.bulbamerica.com/product...2&cadevice=c&gclid=CI3B6NTtotICFUW5wAodbfMJGA

It puts out the same amount of light as a standard 400w using less power w/ a broad spectrum.

Thank you for clarifying this!. I couldn't find any info regarding the start types of MH bulbs, other than pulse and probe.

Yes I have seen what gnome pulls off with the MH lamps for bloom, I am curious to see how it works out for my strain. Him and a few others inspired me to do the test myself, other wise I was possibly gonna throw a 360 watt hps conversion bulb in if it..

This CDM bulb, is a ceramic MH right? I'm totally up for for that, wasn't sure about what kind of ballast they take to run though.. going to look into it.

After my next run or 2 its time to replace my 2 1000hps bulbs (currently a solar max super hps and a cheap apollo, both work great so no more expensive ones) in the flower room. Do they make 1000 CDM bulbs that would work with my nanolux digi's? or would you say to stick with hps over cdm? I don't trust doing a side by side in the same room, or risk losing out by switching bulbs just yet.

That's why I want to experiment with a little 400 in its own little room to start with, and seems I already have the 400 flood light. I just want a good all around light but also one that will still hit my 1gpw I usually get.. on the first flower run with whatever bulb I get hopefully.

There is something about my strain that doesn't like HPS, even though I still make out good, my intuition tells me this!

I do believe that the best comes from being both vegged and flowered with the same spectrum. I use t-5 mostly, and not quite convinced with LED until I see the end result of my buddies double johnson cx6 cree led run with my strain in a 4x4 scrog. Not impressed with the price tag for the 2 he bought that's for sure. CMH sounds like the golden ticket!

 

[Drop That Sound]

About the CDM bulbs again, I keep seeing that they should be mounted vertically? If so I don't think it might be a good idea to seal one up horizontally in an enclosed flood fixture, at 50-60 a pop I wouldn't wanna be replacing it any time soon!

As for the flower room, i'm stuck with a 6 ft ceiling, and the 860 watt CDMs having to be vertical I would have to go vertical and change my whole setup.. plus 88,000 lumens vs my 140,000 hps bulbs don't seem worth it, but then again the better spectrum might make up for that in quality. Id rather supplement the HPS with MH like I plan on doing.. I don't think they can fire on a digital ballast either, just replace probe or pulse start bulbs..

Gonna go with a sylvania

 

[Jhhnn]

Thank you for clarifying this!. I couldn't find any info regarding the start types of MH bulbs, other than pulse and probe.

Yes I have seen what gnome pulls off with the MH lamps for bloom, I am curious to see how it works out for my strain. Him and a few others inspired me to do the test myself, other wise I was possibly gonna throw a 360 watt hps conversion bulb in if it..

This CDM bulb, is a ceramic MH right? I'm totally up for for that, wasn't sure about what kind of ballast they take to run though.. going to look into it.

After my next run or 2 its time to replace my 2 1000hps bulbs (currently a solar max super hps and a cheap apollo, both work great so no more expensive ones) in the flower room. Do they make 1000 CDM bulbs that would work with my nanolux digi's? or would you say to stick with hps over cdm? I don't trust doing a side by side in the same room, or risk losing out by switching bulbs just yet.

That's why I want to experiment with a little 400 in its own little room to start with, and seems I already have the 400 flood light. I just want a good all around light but also one that will still hit my 1gpw I usually get.. on the first flower run with whatever bulb I get hopefully.

There is something about my strain that doesn't like HPS, even though I still make out good, my intuition tells me this!

I do believe that the best comes from being both vegged and flowered with the same spectrum. I use t-5 mostly, and not quite convinced with LED until I see the end result of my buddies double johnson cx6 cree led run with my strain in a 4x4 scrog. Not impressed with the price tag for the 2 he bought that's for sure. CMH sounds like the golden ticket!

CMH lamps of that series- 860, 330 & 205 are designed as screw in power saving lamps for 50-60 HZ core & coil MH ballasts in commercial fixtures. They're all open fixture rated & the 860 is vertical only. None of them should be operated on high frequency electronic ballasts. Your fixture very likely is the right type. If it has a transformer & capacitor only, it's probe start. If it has an ignitor as well then it's pulse start. CMH & probe start work with either but pulse start lamps won't fire on probe start ballasts. Pulse start lamps have somewhat longer average life which is why many modern commercial fixtures use them.

I use a 330 for veggie starts in the spring & occasionally for seedlings if I want to overlap batches. Works great in an enclosed white painted area 3x3 or so. They have superior spectrum so they should work fine for flowering as well.

It's a good way to experiment with CMH & figure out if you want to make the jump to Philips 315 tech or some variant down the road. They're state of the art for HID with remarkable visible output per watt & superior lamp life. Once you start to scale up very far & have normal height ceilings then the DE HPS tech makes more sense.

 

[Jhhnn]

About the CDM bulbs again, I keep seeing that they should be mounted vertically? If so I don't think it might be a good idea to seal one up horizontally in an enclosed flood fixture, at 50-60 a pop I wouldn't wanna be replacing it any time soon!

As for the flower room, i'm stuck with a 6 ft ceiling, and the 860 watt CDMs having to be vertical I would have to go vertical and change my whole setup.. plus 88,000 lumens vs my 140,000 hps bulbs don't seem worth it, but then again the better spectrum might make up for that in quality. Id rather supplement the HPS with MH like I plan on doing.. I don't think they can fire on a digital ballast either, just replace probe or pulse start bulbs..

Gonna go with a sylvania

The 860 is the only one of philips cmh & cdm lamps that requires vertical mounting.

I used one of these for awhile with solid results-

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/88210/PX-LU1000MHDA.html?gclid=CNG235yQpNICFcu2wAodep8CVA

Other more expensive dual arc lamps have longer rated lifespans.

The sweet spot, the point of diminished returns for conventional HID is ~60W per sq.ft. That's 1000w over a 4x4 area, what the big boys use.

 

[Drop That Sound]

Jhhnn thanks for the input, really appreciate it! I had no idea I was gonna be testing out a CDM but I think you sold me on it... My area that I wanna do a flower run with the flood fixture is my multi purpose room and should be perfect for it.

I still like to veg large plants too so I might just permanently bolt the fixture to a wall in there and leave it for good.

2000 watts is already more than sweet for my 7.5Wx6.25Lx6H flower room, so maybe ill just drop in 2 reptile uvb lights to come on for a few hours as a supplement instead. I could always drop in 2 MH lamps in there or do half and half sometime if I wanted as well..

Figured with the extra 400 in the center i would switch the hps bulbs down 2 750watts each if need be and get a better spread + spectrum. My best buds grow in the center of them anyway as is..

My new little main veg area Im setting up a 8 site LP-aero/fog/swc hybrid dual rail 5x5 fence post system and is only like 3 ft tall with an 8 lamp t-5.

I originally just planned for the multi purpose room to just be a drying/single big plant veg area but going to go ahead and do flower runs in it to keep my garden warmer in the winter. Should help out a lot flowering in it, staggered light schedule from the main flower room, instead of just heating 2 spaces with 2 different heaters like I have been.