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4000 watt electric setup
- Thread starter ParanoidNovice
- Start date
Unless DX's offerings have changed substantially in the last year or so, his bottom-end stuff suffers from the same problems that I detailed above. He is capable of better work, but expect to pay a good bit more for it.
I helped someone on here specify out a custom controller - cost wasn't an issue, he simply wanted top shelf gear and DX's price reflected that approach. Some aspects of the final product were significantly less than stellar. When questioned about it, DX said that, while it didn't meet "best practices", it did meet code.
Bear in mind, code compliance is considered a minimum, not a guideline for top quality gear.
Caveat emptor.
I helped someone on here specify out a custom controller - cost wasn't an issue, he simply wanted top shelf gear and DX's price reflected that approach. Some aspects of the final product were significantly less than stellar. When questioned about it, DX said that, while it didn't meet "best practices", it did meet code.
Bear in mind, code compliance is considered a minimum, not a guideline for top quality gear.
Caveat emptor.
Old fashioned me, I just run mechanical outlet timers, 1 per ballast. They have been pretty reliable.
ParanoidNovice
Member
Ok, I had some time to work on this this today. Had a couple hiccups but nothing worth mentioning. I decided to run the wire in conduit...
Looks good.
On the water heater timer, there should be a green-anodized screw somewhere in the back of the enclosure (I don't see it it in the picture). This would normally either have a clamp-plate under it or accept a lug, and this is where the grounds would tie together and bond the enclosure to ground. It looks like it's possible that one of the ground conductors goes up on the right, under the load connections and behind the timer mechanism, and it might go to this point. It's important that the enclosure is bonded, so this should be verified.
The neutral buss on the sub should also have some way of grounding it to the enclosure - this should not be used in your application. I don't see where one is installed, but again, just verifying.
You are miles ahead of the commercially-available controllers!
On the water heater timer, there should be a green-anodized screw somewhere in the back of the enclosure (I don't see it it in the picture). This would normally either have a clamp-plate under it or accept a lug, and this is where the grounds would tie together and bond the enclosure to ground. It looks like it's possible that one of the ground conductors goes up on the right, under the load connections and behind the timer mechanism, and it might go to this point. It's important that the enclosure is bonded, so this should be verified.
The neutral buss on the sub should also have some way of grounding it to the enclosure - this should not be used in your application. I don't see where one is installed, but again, just verifying.
You are miles ahead of the commercially-available controllers!
ParanoidNovice
Member
Yes, I ran a jumper to the green ground screw under the mech and the two neutrals are also nutted together.
Could you explain more what you mean about the neutral bus?
Thanks a lot for your help
Could you explain more what you mean about the neutral bus?
Thanks a lot for your help
A "buss" is one of the bars where the connections are made. In your case, the ground buss is the one on the right in the picture. It should be screwed directly to the sheet metal, bonding the enclosure to ground.
The neutral buss is the one on the left and is mounted on insulated stand-offs. There is usually an optional ground strap included that can bond the enclosure to the buss, or a long green screw that will go through the buss and into the sheet metal behind. These are not used when the panel is used as a subpanel, only when it is the main panel. Everything looks right from what I can see, but I wanted to make sure.
The neutral buss is the one on the left and is mounted on insulated stand-offs. There is usually an optional ground strap included that can bond the enclosure to the buss, or a long green screw that will go through the buss and into the sheet metal behind. These are not used when the panel is used as a subpanel, only when it is the main panel. Everything looks right from what I can see, but I wanted to make sure.
ParanoidNovice
Member
Is there any reason that I couldn't install a 50 amp plug near the main breaker and also make the sub-panel semi-portable? I ask because it's probable I will want to move the tent in the not too distant future.
I will be tying in today, or tomorrow.
Something similar to this combo?
Lincoln Electric Welding Receptacle
Lincoln Electric Welding Plug
Edit: I think I'll just do this at a later date when/if I move it...it will just create more delays now
I will be tying in today, or tomorrow.
Something similar to this combo?
Lincoln Electric Welding Receptacle
Lincoln Electric Welding Plug
Edit: I think I'll just do this at a later date when/if I move it...it will just create more delays now
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ParanoidNovice
Member
Thanks, I actually think I will. I found a combo that will work for around $25 and I know I will regret it in the future if I don't.
ParanoidNovice
Member
I just wanted to post a follow up...I finished the electric and everything seems to be working perfectly. I ended up adding the 50a plug without issue.
Thanks, Rives! I learned a lot.
Thanks, Rives! I learned a lot.
ParanoidNovice
Member
Yes, I'm glad I went the way I did! The knowledge I picked up on this project will be very handy in the future...I'll post finished pics of the room soon...
SourBubbler
New member
Does the water heater timer step down the voltage at the same time? It looks like a 240v dryer plug going into the timer and 120v panel.
If you carry 3-wire 240v (2 hot legs and 1 neutral) through the timer and into the sub-panel, then both 120v and 240v are available at the the sub. The neutral is unswitched, and if you go from either hot leg to neutral, you get 120v. If you go from hot to hot, you get 240v.
I'm having trouble reconciling the 50 amp breaker feeding all this.
The outlet is 30 amp, the dryer plug 30 amp. The load side of the timer is orange romex (30 amp) feeding a sub with no main breaker.
The breaker in your house panel feeding all this is the only overcurrent protection you have. Meaning it must be a 30 amp breaker, and not 50 regardless of whatever plug rating it is attached to.
The outlet is 30 amp, the dryer plug 30 amp. The load side of the timer is orange romex (30 amp) feeding a sub with no main breaker.
The breaker in your house panel feeding all this is the only overcurrent protection you have. Meaning it must be a 30 amp breaker, and not 50 regardless of whatever plug rating it is attached to.
If this was the way that it was set up, you would be correct - the breaker should always be rated for either the same amperage or less than the current rating of the downstream components that it is supposed to protect.
However, I think (hope!) that you are misreading what has been done here. If you look at post #19, you can see where OP has used a 30a breaker and 10/3 to feed the dryer receptacle, the timer and the downstream sub while the 50a breaker is installed in the main panel, connected with #6 and used to feed the new upstream sub.
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Good thread, good info and good pics.... I think when I get some time I'm going to change out my various hydro store light controllers for this set up.
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SourBubbler
New member
I have a dryer outlet I would love to use but only for 120v. Do I need the timer or can I just wire outlets thru a panel and dryer plug?
Whether the dryer circuit works depends on the circuit arrangement. The 3-wire 240v mentioned above will actually have 4 wires total at the receptacle - there is also the ground to account for. If there are only 3 wires in the receptacle, then a neutral is not present - just 2 hot legs and a ground.
If 120v is all that you need, then the receptacle wiring could be re-arranged even if it is straight 240v by moving one of the hot wires from the breaker to the neutral buss. Of course, if it is a 4-wire style then it would be usable "as is" by using only single-pole breakers in your cord-connected subpanel.
Be aware that if a hot wire is converted over to a neutral, white "phase tape" should be used on the wire at each end to mark that it has been converted to that purpose. Also, the receptacle should be changed over to a Nema 5-30 configuration so that a 240v appliance cannot be plugged into it.
The timer would not be needed, but some downstream circuit protection is required if the downstream components are the usual 15a variety.
If 120v is all that you need, then the receptacle wiring could be re-arranged even if it is straight 240v by moving one of the hot wires from the breaker to the neutral buss. Of course, if it is a 4-wire style then it would be usable "as is" by using only single-pole breakers in your cord-connected subpanel.
Be aware that if a hot wire is converted over to a neutral, white "phase tape" should be used on the wire at each end to mark that it has been converted to that purpose. Also, the receptacle should be changed over to a Nema 5-30 configuration so that a 240v appliance cannot be plugged into it.
The timer would not be needed, but some downstream circuit protection is required if the downstream components are the usual 15a variety.
