3LB's Molasses - The Miracle Addative

[Guest]

Molasses is ok. Black strap grade molasses is good.

High fructose corn syrup is better.

Its a cleaner, purer source of energy. Cheaper too.

 

[theFLINTSTONERS]

this one is a classic, I wonder where those birdies are roosting tday....

I smell a sticky coming...!

looks like we're "roosting" here now . . .

gld to see this information still around . . . we are always growing and learning ourselves . . . so a new and revised version of this "molasses manual" isn't out of the question . . .

 

[Guest]

Molasses is ok. Black strap grade molasses is good.

High fructose corn syrup is better.

Its a cleaner, purer source of energy. Cheaper too.

I haven't personally tried it but have always heard that it's usable but Black Strap is the better source for what we are looking for. I don't know how much truth there is to it but it seems to me that every liquid source of minerals and micros are black and the corn syrup just seems to pure to be competitive with Black Strap in regards to horticultural usefullness.

J.

 

[vonforne]

This is why we use Black Strap

45 calories
Sodium 15mg
Potassium 500mg
Carbohydrates 11g
Sugar 8g
Calcium 15%
Iron 20%
Magnesium 10%

 

[theFLINTSTONERS]

in another thread a grower mentioned using high fructose corn syrup . . . so this seemed like an opportunity to add some more "food for thought" to this thread . . .

I prefer high fructose corn syrup to any grade of molasses.

we are curious . . . hopefully that grower won't mind if we ask why they prefer high fructose corn syrup to molasses ? we invited them to the conversation . . . so hopefully they will share their perspective here soon . . .

we have been researching "soil sweeteners" used by farmers pretty extensively . . . certainly we've even heard of some farmers using what is essentially table sugar - sucrose . . . but using high fructose corn syrup for growing isn't inside our personal experience . . .

we don't advocate the exclusive use of molasses as a soil sweetener . . . we will openly admit there are other suitable carbohydrate sources that can substitute for molasses . . . molasses does have some special qualities . . . but that doesn't mean it's the ONLY choice either . . .

 

[Guest]

Ya folks, I dig the use of the stuff, old schoolers proved its worth sometime ago, buuuuuuuut...
I already know that the 15 essentials are present in the medium, as well as being one that supplies what a plant requires when it requires it, molasses puts me in a realm of supplying unutilized extras during feeding. And being as molasses is dirty with cane or beet gunk, which really does clog tinsy root hairs! Thankfully, the roots of mj overcome the periodic gunking!
Corn syrup though, is a straighter stonger shot of sugars...costs less, goes great with foliar sprays...and ummm...works in me coffee when I've run out of sugar!

Word of caution to organic grow types...if the molasses isnt from beet or cane that was organically grown...don't wreck your medium using a source that has known the taste of commercial fertilizers and insecticides!

 

[gratefuldawg]

One more big factor i would like to say. Calcium is Very important for plants in flowering. and vegging for that matter. Oyster shells work wonders in your soil!!!! Max Cal that a plant can take without burning as thats how organics works take what it wants leave the rest.

Good call on the oyster shells, I'll have to check em out. I'm always having cal/mag issues with RO water. How much do you add? Also, is anyone growing in fox farm, or happy frog? How often do you feed them
these BS Molasis teas? I'm dying to try it out, but I think I might burn the bitches now, I'm doing a modified moonshine mix, a week or so into flower right now, and things are goin good.

 

[Guest]

Egg shell is round about 94 to 97% calcium carbonate. Easy to grind to a powder.

 

[Guest]

Doesnt the egg shell take a very long tome to break down and release the calcium though?

Peace, hhf

 

[Guest]

Ok, not to Shang-hi the thread away from molasses...
hhf, yes, egg shell does break down in due time. That though is a plus! Slow release nutrients are set and forget!
Grinding the shell to a powder aids the process! That or just get the bits and pieces as itsy bitsy as ya can!

 

[Pimpslapped]

At Publix or Kroger you get
Gramdma's unsulfured

Tree of Life
Unsulfured Blackstrap Molasses

You can get the Tree of Life at the feed store or a Health food store.

Just thought I'd mention I found Brer Rabbit Blackstrap at a local Krogers.
12oz bottle.

Fat - 0g, 0%;
Sodium - 65mg. 3%;
Potassium - 800 mg. 23%;
Total Carbohydrates - 13g, 4%;
Sugars - 12g,
Protein - 1g,
Calcium - 2%;
Iron 10%;
Magnesium 15%

 

[Chuckleberry]

Good call on the oyster shells, I'll have to check em out. I'm always having cal/mag issues with RO water. How much do you add? Also, is anyone growing in fox farm, or happy frog? How often do you feed them
these BS Molasis teas? I'm dying to try it out, but I think I might burn the bitches now, I'm doing a modified moonshine mix, a week or so into flower right now, and things are goin good.

Hey gratefuldawg, i use r/o water as well with the fox farms ocean forest soil and their nutes as well as molasses, I have been getting cal/mag issues too and i think its from ph lockout more so than the lack of cal/mag as from what I have read mag is locked out under a ph of 6.0 fox farms nutes and my r/o water was coming in well below 6.0

So to correct this i started adding ph up to my r/o to get it around 6.2-6.4 after i mix the nutes in. Finally got it dialed in and no more deficiencies.

heres an example take it ez

 

[Suby]

I swear by molasses, I've yet to try corn syrup but unsulphered just seems like a better choice because it contains extra elements for the micro's to feed on.
As far as molasses being unorganic I am wondering how corn syrup is any more organic, I'm surrounded by corn fields and they use pesticides whereas as beets are a root vegetable which require little pesticides if any?
I have no experience with anything else but raw unsulphered molasses, I picked up a gallon at my local feed store and never looked back.
I'm also interested in raw sugar cane extrat if anyone has experience with that?

Good discussion all, nice to see this thread revived and generating feedback.

Suby

 

[Suby]

On a side not those using RO water definately need to look into using powdered dolomite lime at 1-2TBS per gallon of mix, if your already doing so and still have imbalances or def's then get back to me.

S

 

[Farmer John]

Great thread 10+ points a gold medal!

 

[theFLINTSTONERS]

Ok, not to Shang-hi the thread away from molasses...
hhf, yes, egg shell does break down in due time. That though is a plus! Slow release nutrients are set and forget!
Grinding the shell to a powder aids the process! That or just get the bits and pieces as itsy bitsy as ya can!

when talking calcium . . . we like to discuss Magnesium and Potassium at the same time . . . all three are cations so they can actually compete with each other at cation exchange sites in the soil . . .

hopefully we can get a really good discussion going on that topic soon . . .

we have our own thoughts about high frustose corn syrup . . . hopefully we'll have time to come back later today to add those later today . . .

 

[Guest]

Suby, same thing applies...check to see if the source of the product was organically farmed. If genetically altered foods is a no-go for you, corn syrup and the process of its production including designer enzymes is a thing you may want to shy away from.
I'd debate that genetically altered foods are indeed organic as long as farmed organically. Same goes for designer enzymes. It's not as if designer strains of mj are any different.

I should emphasize...using HFCS, to me, is a matter of control. As in, not adding nutrients that the plant's life stage it is not going to utilize. And again, knowing the essentials are present...using molasses would have me wasting many of its constituents.
I'm not knocking molasses, not at all. Merely citing the whys of my preference for HFCS.

FLINTSTONERS....

The main ingredient in eggshells is calcium carbonate (the same brittle white stuff that chalk, limestone, cave stalactites, sea shells, coral, and pearls are made of). The shell itself is about 95% CaCO3. The remaining 5% includes calcium phosphate and magnesium carbonate and soluble and insoluble proteins.
Nutrients Eggshell

Water, % 29-35
Protein, % 1.4-4
Crude Fat, % 0.10-0.20
Ash, % 89.9-91.1
Calcium, % 35.1-36.4
CaCO3, % of total Ca 90.9
Phosphorus, % 0.12
Sodium, % 0.15-0.17
Magnesium, % 0.37-0.40
Potassium, % 0.10-0.13
Sulphur, % 0.09-0.19
Alanine, % 0.45
Arginine, % 0.56-0.57
Aspartic Acid, % 0.83-0.87
Cystine, % 0.37-0.41
Glutamic Acid, % 1.22-1.26
Glycine, % 0.48-0.51
Histidine, % 0.25-0.30
Isoleucine, % 0.34
Leucine, % 0.57
Lysine, % 0.37
Methionine, % 0.28-0.29
Phenylalanine, % 0.38-0.46
Proline, % 0.54-0.62
Serine, % 0.64-0.65
Threonine, % 0.45-0.47
Tyrosine, % 0.25-0.26
Valine, % 0.54-0.55

http://www.serve.com/BatonRouge/nutrition/eggshell.htm

 

[theFLINTSTONERS]

Suby, same thing applies...check to see if the source of the product was organically farmed. If genetically altered foods is a no-go for you, corn syrup and the process of its production including designer enzymes is a thing you may want to shy away from.
I'd debate that genetically altered foods are indeed organic as long as farmed organically. Same goes for designer enzymes. It's not as if designer strains of mj are any different.

I should emphasize...using HFCS, to me, is a matter of control. As in, not adding nutrients that the plant's life stage it is not going to utilize. And again, knowing the essentials are present...using molasses would have me wasting many of its constituents.
I'm not knocking molasses, not at all. Merely citing the whys of my preference for HFCS.

High Fructose Corn Syrup wouldn't be our first choice for a number of reasons . . . but our way isn't the ONLY way . . . and we do think that information on HFSC as an option might be useful in the next edition of the "molasses manual" we write . . .

we intend to write a new version of this essay . . . not exclusively focusing on molasses . . . but also inicluding more comprehensive information on alternative carbohydrate sources . . . sometime in the near future . . . so with W i l l's permission we'd like to use him as an example of the grower who intruduced us to grower's using High Fructose Corn Syrup . . .

as for whether HFSC can be considered organic . . . we'd submit the following . . . quote from Wikipedia . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fructose_corn_syrup

Labeling as "natural"

In May 2006, the Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI) threatened to file a lawsuit against Cadbury Schweppes for labeling 7 Up as "All Natural", despite containing high fructose corn syrup. While the FDA has no definition of "Natural", CSPI claims that HFCS is not a "natural" ingredient due to the high level of processing and the use of at least one genetically modifed (GMO) enzyme required to produce it. In January 2007, Cadbury Schweppes agreed to stop calling 7 Up "All Natural".

FLINTSTONERS....

The main ingredient in eggshells is calcium carbonate (the same brittle white stuff that chalk, limestone, cave stalactites, sea shells, coral, and pearls are made of). The shell itself is about 95% CaCO3. The remaining 5% includes calcium phosphate and magnesium carbonate and soluble and insoluble proteins.
Nutrients Eggshell

Water, % 29-35
Protein, % 1.4-4
Crude Fat, % 0.10-0.20
Ash, % 89.9-91.1
Calcium, % 35.1-36.4
CaCO3, % of total Ca 90.9
Phosphorus, % 0.12
Sodium, % 0.15-0.17
Magnesium, % 0.37-0.40
Potassium, % 0.10-0.13
Sulphur, % 0.09-0.19
Alanine, % 0.45
Arginine, % 0.56-0.57
Aspartic Acid, % 0.83-0.87
Cystine, % 0.37-0.41
Glutamic Acid, % 1.22-1.26
Glycine, % 0.48-0.51
Histidine, % 0.25-0.30
Isoleucine, % 0.34
Leucine, % 0.57
Lysine, % 0.37
Methionine, % 0.28-0.29
Phenylalanine, % 0.38-0.46
Proline, % 0.54-0.62
Serine, % 0.64-0.65
Threonine, % 0.45-0.47
Tyrosine, % 0.25-0.26
Valine, % 0.54-0.55

http://www.serve.com/BatonRouge/nutrition/eggshell.htm

yes . . . we know what eggshells are composed of . . .

we've raised chickens . . . and one member of our collective has won awards for work breeding birds . . . not trying to brag . . . just giving you some insight into our perspective . . . .

perhaps you misunderstood our comment . . . we were simply saying that whenever we discuss calcium . . . we also like to discuss the other important cations . . . magnesium and potassium . . . because balancing the three is essential to proper plant nutrition and health . . . since they compete with each other at cation exchange sites . . .

 

[Dignan]

when talking calcium . . . we like to discuss Magnesium and Potassium at the same time . . . all three are cations so they can actually compete with each other at cation exchange sites in the soil . . .

hopefully we can get a really good discussion going on that topic soon . . ..

I, for one, am very interested in learning more about that.

Dig

 

[theFLINTSTONERS]

I, for one, am very interested in learning more about that.

Dig

we'll see if we can get something started soon . . . we've been writing book reviews lately in our spare time . . . and have a couple of them almost finished . . . but maybe we can take a break with those for a moment later and get something started . . . once we do . . . we'll post a link in this thread for those who are interested . . .