-
ICMag with help from Phlizon, Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest for Christmas! You can check it here. Prizes are: full spectrum led light, seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
3 plus 3=?
- Thread starter GMT
- Start date
Just give it a Tri
Just give it a Tri
Core's not the only original around here..I watched the evolution begin..but I've been away..so I'll let you get away with that comment..hehe..
What's up GMT..I see the Tri empire continues..but I noticed something different, your pics are killer now..not to say they were bad in the old days..
The focus, clarity and lighting are way better than the old days..diggin them alot..
I just skimmed though..hopefully the pests are giving you a break this round..I know what you mean about certain family traits..
How many times have I heard, "Oh my God, what are you, a tripod"..hehe..
More l8r..a lot to see..till then.. :friends:
..Packn
Just give it a Tri
Core's not the only original around here..I watched the evolution begin..but I've been away..so I'll let you get away with that comment..hehe..
What's up GMT..I see the Tri empire continues..but I noticed something different, your pics are killer now..not to say they were bad in the old days..
The focus, clarity and lighting are way better than the old days..diggin them alot..
I just skimmed though..hopefully the pests are giving you a break this round..I know what you mean about certain family traits..
How many times have I heard, "Oh my God, what are you, a tripod"..hehe..
More l8r..a lot to see..till then.. :friends:
..Packn
Hiya Pack, its good to have you back around the place, tripod lmao, yeah I've missed your humour. I did a camera upgrade last summer from the original 2mp sony, which I thought was great when I first got it. Now I'm onto my second upgrade, a very nice olympus sp 550, 23-504mm lens (35mm equivalent), its only 7mp, but here its 600x800 so I dont feel too bad about that. Anyway, the pic improvements are down to equipment upgrades, but thanks for the props, looking forward to some pics from you again one day, I know lighting is something that you like to nail in your pics. Unfortunately I can't take mine out into day light, I have to make do with the orange hps glow for my light source, I'm glad olympus does white balance so well. Anyway, weekend update:
My 2 girls
K
Karma Genetics
Core said:hehehe its hard to keep track mate...but i still know what the thread is about ey...gimme some credit for that lol......no serious...its been a while since we talkt about this subject ..and the progress ofcaurse...but i think its possible...i tell you why i think this....some1 onhere has send me some seeds...and i started 6 of them....after a few days roots appeard and i could seperate 1 obvious twin wich i broke ....but i still potted them all...few days later all appeard above surface and there woz like 3 more twins....these 3 where separated and they lived...now a few weeks later i discoverd yet another twin...this one came up later so thats why i missed it.....so thats 5 twins...i started 6 and i ended up with 11....individuals... of wich 9 lived....why am i telling you this you may ask??? i'm just wondering... could it be that this guy may of stumbled on the Twin trait without knowing...could this be??...or am i seeing to much SiFi movies ??
give us ya
ohw dude and i don't think it would take 10000 years ....maybe in free nature ...but not if plants are selected...this will reduce your time to what ...1000 years lol...J/K on the last :wink:
Hello All
I seem to get a lot of twins and a verry high female ratio on the Mirre (Sage x JH#22) seeds. Why i dont know. But i am almost finishd with another crossing Kushage#16 x JH#22 crossing. When it has somthing to do with the JH#22 father it will show in this ofspring also. When making the Mirre seeds there was a lot of pollen flying in the room, maybe its the big amount of pollen that made all this twins. To be fare i dont know. I save all moms and dads i use in my crossings so i can always make them again.
what do you guys think can it be in the genetics of the male ?
Hey thanks Karma, that's really interesting. All the research that I have done on the subject tells me that the only way for the twin thing to be passed on genetically is down the female line, although that is in animal research, rather than botany, and it could be that the same principles in plants can be carried on down the male line too. Or it could be that the principle I had considered to be the cause, is actually nothing to do with it. To have a male that passes on the trait reliably does prove that it is genetic in some way, which is always a big leap in knowledge on these things, so thanks for sharing. The fact that it's male rather than female is fascinating though. As I'm typing, I'm still pondering what's going on, would be great if Charles could put some of his thoughts on this in here, though I dont think he follows this thread. The only thing that comes to my mind is that ( I believe it's called Ratchet theory) the process by which evolution clusters traits that are beneficial to males and females individually into separate chromosomes, which is further along in animals than in plants, has not moved the sequence that codes for "twin" into the female chromosome yet, and that when it occurs, it does so on a part of the dna chain which is shared by both sexes. That's the only thing that I can think of to explain your findings, but I'm only guessing, what do you think, sound reasonable?
Core said:ello GMT
well its done ....i let my Tri-male have a shag with my most productive/compact girl....
just need 2 have a Spare cut of the father...i already have a extra cut from the mother....
pitty that the road is sooooooo looooong
lol she's on dark cycle...smoking a sig after that shag
EDIT ...done G
Hey Core, just having a look back through my thread to see how old it is, and stumbled across this post from you, how did that all turn out?
aaaauhm...i believe that workt out.... i don't remember the plants that woz used.....but i think i must still have'm here....the seed turnd out good...never done anything with them coz they are 'th ggeneration at least...i think i called them High Tones at the time...i realy need to check if there still in the seed box 
they must be somewhere..
they must be somewhere..
oooow ahhhhhh eye candy... 
I can see twins being a passed on female trait in animals..eggs splitting and all..seems likely in plants as well..females gestating the seed..
but maybe multiple pollen in a calyx could trigger as well..
Just thinking out loud..not educated enough on the subject..here's some more pondering..just a possible theory from my trichome soaked feeble mind..
MJ sure is resilient to adapting to various environments and situations to ensure it's survival..
it's like it has a built in set of triggers..some strains have triggers more sensitive than others..(hermie, polys, twins..etc.)
As each generation lives in an environment and breeds..data is added to the legacy from both parents
so the new plants know what direction they need to move in for survival in that environment or situation..
Maybe a good tri candidate is a plant with a legacy of living in a short season, high latitude, etc. or be the result be some chemical reaction..
to lock down this trait and make the trigger very sensitive..it seems you have to know what makes a plant want to be tri or poly..
then create that situation over and over ..
I'm thinking without the plant still wanting to be tri because the situation has changed..the gene begins it's process to go more dormant..
I compare this to human skin color and appearance and the distance generations lived from the equator...
Which brings us back to your original thread...Evolution...
Your quest may be hindered by time..you may only have a speck of the time needed to influence evolution..
Maybe not though..MJ seems to adapt very quickly..quest on
Just a stoner theory..I could be way off..but seems reasonable to my THC influenced reasoning..
Hijack over..I'm out of here
I can see twins being a passed on female trait in animals..eggs splitting and all..seems likely in plants as well..females gestating the seed..
but maybe multiple pollen in a calyx could trigger as well..
Just thinking out loud..not educated enough on the subject..here's some more pondering..just a possible theory from my trichome soaked feeble mind..
MJ sure is resilient to adapting to various environments and situations to ensure it's survival..
it's like it has a built in set of triggers..some strains have triggers more sensitive than others..(hermie, polys, twins..etc.)
As each generation lives in an environment and breeds..data is added to the legacy from both parents
so the new plants know what direction they need to move in for survival in that environment or situation..
Maybe a good tri candidate is a plant with a legacy of living in a short season, high latitude, etc. or be the result be some chemical reaction..
to lock down this trait and make the trigger very sensitive..it seems you have to know what makes a plant want to be tri or poly..
then create that situation over and over ..
I'm thinking without the plant still wanting to be tri because the situation has changed..the gene begins it's process to go more dormant..
I compare this to human skin color and appearance and the distance generations lived from the equator...
Which brings us back to your original thread...Evolution...
Your quest may be hindered by time..you may only have a speck of the time needed to influence evolution..
Maybe not though..MJ seems to adapt very quickly..quest on
Just a stoner theory..I could be way off..but seems reasonable to my THC influenced reasoning..
Hijack over..I'm out of here
Lol Core, you seemed excited about starting your own tri line, hope I havent put ya off with my adventure.
Hi Pack,
there was a case of identical triplets over here this week, (in people on the news), they reckon that the odds of one egg splitting and one of those splitting are around 200,000,000 : 1. Another way to get multiple births is to implant multiple pre-fertilised eggs, although we are still talking about animals. In plants, I'm guessing that we can consider the whole seed, the equivalent of an animals womb. And so the method of generating twins that I was guessing at, (when talking about plants) was whereby each cycle, the female's ovaries release more than one egg, which allows for more than one birth, though this is the non-identical twin thing. The problem is with the fact that we now know that males can generate twins in the generation that they pollinate. If it was in the subsequent generation, then we could guess that it was casuing this to happen in the girls its pollen creates, but it couldn't stimulate the female with which it is breeding to engage in this. Therefore it is possible that in the case of twins in plants, the original cells maywell split, as is sometimes the case with animals, and it is being caused by the male pollen. Research in animals have shown that egg splitting is not herreditory, however the multiple egg thing is. I can't really see multiple pollen grains having the same effect though as with animals there are several million sperm about but normally only one birth. I am having trouble assimilating this new information to be honest, as it doesn't fit, which probably indicates I'm talking out of my arse.
Yeah, triggers, epigenetics, kids born to parents who have lived through famines, tend to be smaller therefore requiring less food to survive. (You'd think that in itself would be enough to make me feed mine wouldn't ya lol). The only problem with the environmental triggers or RNA over DNA theory, is that some are born tri and some bi and one or two quad from the same parents. If environmental influences were at play, then I would expect a more even set of observations. Evolution, rather than spotting that camoflage would be handy, and so evolving it by design, rather puts out some green deer, some blue deer, and some brownish deer, its just that the green and blue ones get spotted more easily and get eaten quickly, making their breeding so unsuccessfull, that their genes dont get passed on, resulting in brownish deer. Evolution can only be by design, when there is a designer at play. Without that, the steps each generation take are random. Some being advantagous and some being so deformed they cant survive. This is true at every level of our reality even down to the laws of physics, its all random, or as Stephen Hawking put it when refuting Einstein, "God does indeed play dice". The difference here, is that I am god, lol, well you know what I mean, I am the designer, I not evolution decide which plants get to breed and which don't, which as Core pointed out, gives me a slight edge, but as you point out, that edge may only be a drop in the ocean of the time line needed. The worst case scenario is that the tri's are triploids, which I still dont want to believe, but ratio numbers right now could point to either theory being true. However I have gone from one solitary branch, to seeds which produce sufficient numbers of tris of both sexes to be able to pick and choose between them as to which ones I want to use for breeding. And that's only taken a few years, so I figure I must be doing something right. Or getting luckier each generation, or the plants want to evolve, or Gods rolling his dice in my grow room, either way, it's all an added entertainment while I wait for yet more bud to grow, and yet more free seeds to develop for me to play with in the future. Clearly, when you're trying to generate something new rather than stabalise something already out there, you need to take a different approach, and need to generate instability. Something that standard commercial breeders would consider going in the wrong direction, but it was necessary in order to find exceptional individuals. This means that I've had to go through my fair share of average plants and a few sub standard ones too, but its all in the good cause of finding and using for seeds, the execptional. I figure the first stage is now completed, and now I'm just trying to stabalise what is now out there, the tri pheno of an InbredLine of seeds. I'm hoping that stage two is easier and quicker than stage one was, but once / if I do it, then what will I do? And given that even the top breeders of commercially available stable strains, state that its best to buy a couple of packs of seeds to find your keeper mother plant, so how stable are their best examples really? It kindof sounds as if one in 10 females being the correct pheno is considered stable.
Anyway, I've rambled on enough now, thanks for the thought provoking post Pack. What do you reckon to my ramblings on the subjects?
Hi Pack,
there was a case of identical triplets over here this week, (in people on the news), they reckon that the odds of one egg splitting and one of those splitting are around 200,000,000 : 1. Another way to get multiple births is to implant multiple pre-fertilised eggs, although we are still talking about animals. In plants, I'm guessing that we can consider the whole seed, the equivalent of an animals womb. And so the method of generating twins that I was guessing at, (when talking about plants) was whereby each cycle, the female's ovaries release more than one egg, which allows for more than one birth, though this is the non-identical twin thing. The problem is with the fact that we now know that males can generate twins in the generation that they pollinate. If it was in the subsequent generation, then we could guess that it was casuing this to happen in the girls its pollen creates, but it couldn't stimulate the female with which it is breeding to engage in this. Therefore it is possible that in the case of twins in plants, the original cells maywell split, as is sometimes the case with animals, and it is being caused by the male pollen. Research in animals have shown that egg splitting is not herreditory, however the multiple egg thing is. I can't really see multiple pollen grains having the same effect though as with animals there are several million sperm about but normally only one birth. I am having trouble assimilating this new information to be honest, as it doesn't fit, which probably indicates I'm talking out of my arse.
Yeah, triggers, epigenetics, kids born to parents who have lived through famines, tend to be smaller therefore requiring less food to survive. (You'd think that in itself would be enough to make me feed mine wouldn't ya lol). The only problem with the environmental triggers or RNA over DNA theory, is that some are born tri and some bi and one or two quad from the same parents. If environmental influences were at play, then I would expect a more even set of observations. Evolution, rather than spotting that camoflage would be handy, and so evolving it by design, rather puts out some green deer, some blue deer, and some brownish deer, its just that the green and blue ones get spotted more easily and get eaten quickly, making their breeding so unsuccessfull, that their genes dont get passed on, resulting in brownish deer. Evolution can only be by design, when there is a designer at play. Without that, the steps each generation take are random. Some being advantagous and some being so deformed they cant survive. This is true at every level of our reality even down to the laws of physics, its all random, or as Stephen Hawking put it when refuting Einstein, "God does indeed play dice". The difference here, is that I am god, lol, well you know what I mean, I am the designer, I not evolution decide which plants get to breed and which don't, which as Core pointed out, gives me a slight edge, but as you point out, that edge may only be a drop in the ocean of the time line needed. The worst case scenario is that the tri's are triploids, which I still dont want to believe, but ratio numbers right now could point to either theory being true. However I have gone from one solitary branch, to seeds which produce sufficient numbers of tris of both sexes to be able to pick and choose between them as to which ones I want to use for breeding. And that's only taken a few years, so I figure I must be doing something right. Or getting luckier each generation, or the plants want to evolve, or Gods rolling his dice in my grow room, either way, it's all an added entertainment while I wait for yet more bud to grow, and yet more free seeds to develop for me to play with in the future. Clearly, when you're trying to generate something new rather than stabalise something already out there, you need to take a different approach, and need to generate instability. Something that standard commercial breeders would consider going in the wrong direction, but it was necessary in order to find exceptional individuals. This means that I've had to go through my fair share of average plants and a few sub standard ones too, but its all in the good cause of finding and using for seeds, the execptional. I figure the first stage is now completed, and now I'm just trying to stabalise what is now out there, the tri pheno of an InbredLine of seeds. I'm hoping that stage two is easier and quicker than stage one was, but once / if I do it, then what will I do? And given that even the top breeders of commercially available stable strains, state that its best to buy a couple of packs of seeds to find your keeper mother plant, so how stable are their best examples really? It kindof sounds as if one in 10 females being the correct pheno is considered stable.
Anyway, I've rambled on enough now, thanks for the thought provoking post Pack. What do you reckon to my ramblings on the subjects?
Last edited:
Hiya Doc Dog, no worries, the seats always empty a bit during veg, you timed reclaiming your seat just in time, as they'll start to fill as the buds do. Stealth is pretty key for me, so fortuantely these dont put out much smell until 2 weeks from harvest, and no smell yet, so at least 3 weeks left I guess.
N
NZjay
Jebus H Christmas, GMT!
what you doing! growing weed or this years Xmas tree for the hall way?!
what you doing! growing weed or this years Xmas tree for the hall way?!
N
NZjay
lol! i hate when that happens
... ok.. SOMETIMES ... i hate when that happens. lol
... ok.. SOMETIMES ... i hate when that happens. lol
K
Karma Genetics
I just harvested this Kushage#16 that was dusted by the same father used in my Mirre. When this offspring show a lot of twins two then it gots to be in the Male Pollen. Only Time will tell.....
