3 phase pumps, the latest thing.

[f-e]

The latest and greatest in pumps. The 3 phase DC pump. I'm not talking industrial here. It's the new whisper stuff that deserves the name. A few aquarium shops are getting these in as high end stuff, like $100 and it's only really one supplier on Ali that has them. Minco https://mincoheatingcable.aliexpres...=a2g0o.store_pc_home.pcShopHead_6190399.1_6_1

I can talk tech if anyone is interested, but think of it like this. AC pumps vibrate. DC pumps whine. 3~ DC pumps are a Tesla.

I was using a 3.5w AC circulation pump. Typical 300L and 50cm of lift. Vibrates the tank if it gets within a few inches of the bottom or side. Show it a filter and any ideas of a whirlpool bath are history. I swapped it for a 600A3 which costs about double at $20 delivered. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...e5-5&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000024245449140"}
The moment it was in my hand, I knew. This is no hollow plastic box, it's heavy and solid. $15+$5 for a 12v psu. Held by it's wire, it's trying to swim away, but there is no vibration at your fingers. Sat on the tanks bottom, the tank doesn't make a noise. Using a filter, the water is circling the tank and the surface is rippling. It has 5 times the shove and not a fraction of the vibration.

Many of us use massive pumps for drip systems, due to the pressure requirement. AC motors are limited by the mains frequency, they just can't spin above 3600rpm. No matter how big the pump, it's hard to reach the 10 meters of pressure a dripper wants. An issue these electronically commuted pumps don't share. A small pump like the jt-1000ct I'm using can make that 10 meters from 12v. It's 24v sibling can manage 17 meters. For $40 and without any real noise. I have just 16 emitters which is a low count, making the pump fish a couple of times a second as the control gear recognises it's spinning on the spot doing nothing. This is now an older model though. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...exp_id=1844278b-94a5-444a-ba3a-701aaf8c1fcc-0

This lives somewhere in the middle with a 7 meter head and 700L spec for $30 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32620810098.html

Or I quite fancy one of the variable speed ones, just because.. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...xp_id=1844278b-94a5-444a-ba3a-701aaf8c1fcc-37
The 24v version is 3000L but that's a useless spec, as nobody wants 3000L. It's the 8 meters in interest. Enough for common pressure compensated drippers from netafim. 8 meters is about where most sump pumps are giving up. But it's tint and quiet.



The motor will be much like a modern direct drive, belt free washing machine. Perhaps 24 magnets in a ring around the rotor, numbers 1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 3.... so you get 8 of each. The controller looks at the wires and see's as the magnets pass. So it knows the rotors position. Enabling it to synchronize how it powers the field windings. Ramping to power up and down in each windings, to pass the rotors magnets from one to the next. Think about the power of a washing machine, and how little noise they can make chucking many Kg of washing about. Our pump is a few watts, spinning a few grams. Finally... we are getting somewhere

 

[ledtime]

The latest and greatest in pumps. The 3 phase DC pump. I'm not talking industrial here. It's the new whisper stuff that deserves the name. A few aquarium shops are getting these in as high end stuff, like $100 and it's only really one supplier on Ali that has them. Minco https://mincoheatingcable.aliexpress.. ._6190399.1_6_1

I can talk tech if anyone is interested, but think of it like this. AC pumps vibrate. DC pumps whine. 3~ DC pumps are a Tesla.

I was using a 3.5w AC circulation pump. Typical 300L and 50cm of lift. Vibrates the tank if it gets within a few inches of the bottom or side. Show it a filter and any ideas of a whirlpool bath are history. I swapped it for a 600A3 which costs about double at $20 delivered. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...45449140%22%7D
The moment it was in my hand, I knew. This is no hollow plastic box, it's heavy and solid. $15+$5 for a 12v psu. Held by it's wire, it's trying to swim away, but there is no vibration at your fingers. Sat on the tanks bottom, the tank doesn't make a noise. Using a filter, the water is circling the tank and the surface is rippling. It has 5 times the shove and not a fraction of the vibration.

Many of us use massive pumps for drip systems, due to the pressure requirement. AC motors are limited by the mains frequency, they just can't spin above 3600rpm. No matter how big the pump, it's hard to reach the 10 meters of pressure a dripper wants. An issue these electronically commuted pumps don't share. A small pump like the jt-1000ct I'm using can make that 10 meters from 12v. It's 24v sibling can manage 17 meters. For $40 and without any real noise. I have just 16 emitters which is a low count, making the pump fish a couple of times a second as the control gear recognises it's spinning on the spot doing nothing. This is now an older model though. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...701aaf8c1fcc-0

This lives somewhere in the middle with a 7 meter head and 700L spec for $30 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32620810098.html

Or I quite fancy one of the variable speed ones, just because.. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...01aaf8c1fcc-37
The 24v version is 3000L but that's a useless spec, as nobody wants 3000L. It's the 8 meters in interest. Enough for common pressure compensated drippers from netafim. 8 meters is about where most sump pumps are giving up. But it's tint and quiet.



The motor will be much like a modern direct drive, belt free washing machine. Perhaps 24 magnets in a ring around the rotor, numbers 1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 3.... so you get 8 of each. The controller looks at the wires and see's as the magnets pass. So it knows the rotors position. Enabling it to synchronize how it powers the field windings. Ramping to power up and down in each windings, to pass the rotors magnets from one to the next. Think about the power of a washing machine, and how little noise they can make chucking many Kg of washing about. Our pump is a few watts, spinning a few grams. Finally... we are getting somewhere

I really love your posts. You've got my attention on this one. I was using a 2088 Shurflo pump. Just swapped it for Seaflo that is quieter. They do make noise when running the few times a day at feed. Whisper quiet would be nice. Right now my pump sits about 5 feet above the bulkhead on the bottom of my reservoir. then pumps down into my manifold. Like you I run 12 to 16 emitters. I just swapped out netafim ones at 2GPH for the DIG TOP 12 that has .6GPH emitters at each port.

Where are the curve charts for these pumps?

 

[f-e]

Thanks for the words of encouragement.
12v diaphragm pumps? By design they can make real pressure, but the back'n'forth action is very noisy. I got a small one and a 12v power regulator. The noise can be lowered a lot, but I never got it to an acceptable level to use it. I thought maybe in a well padded box, but the actual flow pulses like with an air-pump. I have pneumatic arresters on my air lines, but bladders on my water lines is just too much.
Many people would be happy with this $10 pump with 15 meters of shove https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...71158823%22%7D
I'm not sure it's brushless, but having used whale caravan pumps for many years, I would give it a go. It will last years still, run 20 minutes a day. Though it won't lift from dry like a diaphragm pump can. Not much will. It shouldn't be heard at all in the center of a bucket though. I keep standard DC pumps a few inches off the bottom, and use a very soft dip tube to reach down from the pump to the bottom. This way the pump can end up out the water, where you hear in whine. Still not transferring noise to the tank though. Such an install needs thought to see the pump always has water in it though.

I used the Top Spins for a bit. Watch the individual filters. They are finer than most line filters, so catch quite a bit. The Top Spin needs over 8 meters to clamp down. Any lower and they sit wide open, as a line clearing mechanism when the pump shuts off.

Most centrifugal pumps have very similar delivery curves. Holding close to full pressure for the first 20% of the delivery capacity. So even the $10 pump set above can run 100 2gph without even reaching for the calculator.

 

[f-e]

This could be the best drip system pump on the market for smaller grows (the 24v version)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3280...04845809%22%7D
Just $25 and plug'n'play. Gives the full 10 meters of head that most systems want in order to work properly. It also has some tricks. If it detects it's spinning on the spot due to a lack of water, it will shut down. If it can't spin, it will back up for a moment to clear the blockage. It should make so little noise you really can call it silent. It's probably the reason my drip pump(with the external driver)is going off the market.

Alternately, people could spend $190 in harborfreight, buying a 1HP 6000gph Drummond. However the Drummond won't put as much water through a dripper. Won't be quiet. Won't fit in your palm. Won't be low voltage. But it at 750w it might warm your bucket enough to make a nice cup of tea.

In car terms, we are looking at a little turbocharged petroleum engine, verse a dirty great oil burner.

Don't forget these anti-siphon valves https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32829997020.html
Just pop one in your plumbing, and power it off the same wires as your pump(or their own psu, off the same timer). So it's open only when the pump runs. You will need the low pressure version, listed for drain use. The water dispensers that have a big bottle on top use them. The one in your washing machine looks the same, but may not seal properly without mains pressure behind it.


Kinda gutted I didn't get this pump myself. Mine is just too big. My controls are all 12v though. 24v allows the windings to power up faster, increasing rpm. So increasing pressure. With that will come more noise, but as there was non, getting 50% louder is still non.


Real game changing stuff this. DC pumps have always been good, but these 3 phase one's with their fancy electronics, are just something else.

If/when people buy these, please add a review. Nobody will be buying AC pumps and fans before long. EC is the way.

 

[ledtime]

This could be the best drip system pump on the market for smaller grows (the 24v version)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3280...04845809%22%7D
Just $25 and plug'n'play. Gives the full 10 meters of head that most systems want in order to work properly. It also has some tricks. If it detects it's spinning on the spot due to a lack of water, it will shut down. If it can't spin, it will back up for a moment to clear the blockage. It should make so little noise you really can call it silent. It's probably the reason my drip pump(with the external driver)is going off the market.

Alternately, people could spend $190 in harborfreight, buying a 1HP 6000gph Drummond. However the Drummond won't put as much water through a dripper. Won't be quiet. Won't fit in your palm. Won't be low voltage. But it at 750w it might warm your bucket enough to make a nice cup of tea.

In car terms, we are looking at a little turbocharged petroleum engine, verse a dirty great oil burner.

Don't forget these anti-siphon valves https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32829997020.html
Just pop one in your plumbing, and power it off the same wires as your pump(or their own psu, off the same timer). So it's open only when the pump runs. You will need the low pressure version, listed for drain use. The water dispensers that have a big bottle on top use them. The one in your washing machine looks the same, but may not seal properly without mains pressure behind it.


Kinda gutted I didn't get this pump myself. Mine is just too big. My controls are all 12v though. 24v allows the windings to power up faster, increasing rpm. So increasing pressure. With that will come more noise, but as there was non, getting 50% louder is still non.


Real game changing stuff this. DC pumps have always been good, but these 3 phase one's with their fancy electronics, are just something else.

If/when people buy these, please add a review. Nobody will be buying AC pumps and fans before long. EC is the way.

I haven't run my Seaflo yet. But it has plenty of oomph for $100. comes with a filter. Lifts no problem at 5 ft of head and provides all the pressure you could need (45psi cutoff). The shurflo was a bit loud which is why I switched out. The seaflo has this nice rubber foot setup that dampens the noise.

I have a small stirring pump in my res on a timer that kicks it all around about 10 mins before the feed time. Can't stir all of the time as the pump in the res then heats the solution too much creating biofilm. I'm running an irrigation controller to a valve and the seaflo already has a backflow prevention in it. Would be kind of cool to be able to really simplify it to a small DC pump in the res on a timer without the valve and what not. I over engineer sometimes.

 

[f-e]

45psi would concern me. It's right on the upper limit for barbed connections (and most compensated emitters). That valve I posted has a 10mm barb. I put a bit of 10mm over that, just to fatten it up to hosepipe size. I could use some solvent weld as it's pvc hose, but with just 15psi I can be a bit slack with my plumbing skills. At 45psi everything needs to be right. Ideally, everything possible should be a compression connection. The Top Spins tend to come with compression T's for semi-hard pipe. I take them off and fit 13mm barbs for good garden hose. I really like garden hose, as it's flexible and there is a great range of fittings in many shops. It's not screaming irrigation when people see it in your bin either. On the other hand, I dislike the semi-hard black pipe from the hydro store that's got it's own ideas about what a straight line is, and uses fittings that are quite specific. Specific, costly and limited. I love the quick disconnect garden stuff at 99p

Obviously each has it's place. What I'm doing is really quite 'toy town' though, when you look at a large outfit. I don't think I have ever gone past 80 2gph emitters.

 

[f-e]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33009638931.html

The small talk https://www.bldcpump.com/product/dc60g/


The highlights.
24v 100w DC EC motor. 1.2 Bar 3450LPH.
By the book, this 100$ kit will run 2100 PC emitters. The 2 liters per hour Netafim ones that run at 0.5 Bar+ (common red tops)

Just 40db before it goes in the tank.

Using the 2 liter per hour arrows, with their 1 Bar requirement, plus a filter and some hose losses. 300 arrows shouldn't trouble it.


Edit: How long is that wire though. You might need some potting resin for the cable join.

 

[GenghisKush]

LOL.

I acquired one of these recently. I've had it installed for a week now, and so far I've been happy with it. Runs quiet, powered by a tiny1A, 24 V Meanwell power supply. It's all I need to keep my reservoir topped-off for my gravity-fed blumat setup. It ran daily at noon for only 30 minutes.

Until today.

I haven't had time to take apart the pump, but it is kaput. Not sure how or why.

All I know is I'm glad I chose to install an extra check valve, or I would have flooded my (secret) grow room.

I really wanted to like this pump, but I don't. Now I will contend with customer service, wish me luck.

 

[f-e]

1 amp isn't enough. It's a 4 amp pump. Is it kicking a bit, and restarting?

It's a very big pump to be running half hour filling a res. Is it a swimming pool?

 

[GenghisKush]

We are not referring to the same pump; mine is the 24V JT-660 which is rated at 1.15 A.
Yes, I should be driving that pump with a slightly larger power supply. But no, no kicking at all and I never had any reason to think it was overdrawing the power supply.

I am beginning to suspect it failed because I had the intake too close to a flat surface and it ran dry, despite being submersed. This is my current working hypothesis.
The replacement I just installed is not nearly as quiet, but is rated at 920mA.

In summary, I think I broke a perfectly good pump due to bad design.

P.S. I let the pump run long to dissolve O2 as the water cycles between primary and secondary reservoir.

 

[f-e]

Interesting. I want to have a play with the 660a which is the 3 phase version.
Do you use hydrogen peroxide? I have found that small high rpm pumps can become air-locked with h202 use. I was using caravan/rv pumps as big as a toilet roll tube, which had 14 meters of head, but couldn't use h202 at all. They instantly became noisy and soon stopped pumping. I'm using one of the jt-1000 models, with 12v 10 meter rating. After many months, it also filled the pipe that goes up in over my barrels edge, with air. I was using quite a bit of h202 though, and the gradual loss of pressure was evident at the emitters. I won't install a vent. I have a garden hose quick connect between res and emitters, to aid tank draining. At that flow rate, the air is cleared. I just didn't use it for 6 months.At which point the 33cc per minute from my 2L arrows, started dropping. At 25cc I could see my runoff was too low for the pumps run time. Alerting me to the problem.

If you have a suction hose that might touch the side, it's worth getting a knife and castellating it.

I hope the 24v 660 isn't struggling with h202 but as pumps get smaller and faster the risk increases. I'm looking for data around that. The caravan pump had a metal impeller just ~ 12mm across. So we may not see the issue, but I think It's still there. I got air from somewhere. Though my pump does come out the water as levels fall, so I may of simply sucked it in.

 

[GenghisKush]

No H2O2 in my reservoir, only tap water and salts.

I removed the cover and the impeller looks fine, nothing obstructing it.

I also tried to power the pump with my benchtop power supply. At 24 V the pump will pulse a few times, as the current fluctuates at 1 +- 0.3 A and then after about 30 seconds settles to 16mA. No more pulses once this low current level is reached.

 

[f-e]

It knows if there is no rotation, so will try a few tries, then quit until you cycle the power. It sounds like you may of lost one of the two phases, so it can no longer turn. Or the cover fits badly, and is pinching the impeller. They claim each is set up at the factory, and advise not opening them because of this.

My 1000 needs a PSU bigger than expected. It would pulse, kicking the water round, but stop as the PSU voltage fluctuated ( I think ) It just wouldn't run. I had to contact them, and they knew my ~ 3? amp pump needed a 5 amp supply. I hadn't expected this, and kinda wish the brains were not so involved in the pumps function. The pump has a soft start, but still needed a big PSU. In honestly, I was using a two amp. Just having a look at it in my sink. I used a 16 amp, and it seemed to bed in for the first minute or so. I think it has close fitting in the housing.

I have had a couple of the 600a which have worked without any drama. This isn't a great success rate though. I have ordered a 660a to play with, but it will be February now.

Reviews seem favourable,

 

[GenghisKush]

This is the pump I'm using now. It is brushless 24V 800L/H 5M head for 20.99 USD. I have no idea whether it has any of the fancy features f-e mentioned earlier.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08NK7NWS3

It's louder than the 660 it replaces. Works well for my application (so far).

 

[f-e]

Might be worth ordering a spare now. 3 weeks from China but just 10$ plus your taxes https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003028219415.html

 

[GenghisKush]

Wow f-e, I'd love to know how you found that on AliExpress. I looked, and could not find it.

 

[f-e]

It doesn't have an obvious part number, but if you search for 24v 800L 5M pump, then it fills the page. You may need to do that, to find the power plug you are using. IRRC I linked to a molex plug like a PC PSU presents. You perhaps have a 2.1mm jack.

https://fr.aliexpress.com/wholesale...SB_20211208160240&SearchText=800l+5m+pump+24v

 

[GenghisKush]

I've come to rely on using the "reverse image search" to track back products from their amazon listing to, say, aliexpress but that trick failed me this time.

The pump I received came with unterminated ~ 20 AWG wires which I soldered to a 5.5x2.1mm barrel jack that plugged into a cord leading to the power supply. I expected from the amazon listing that the item I received would have bare wires. I was able to receive and install this replacement very quickly and the pump failure didn't bring about any harm to my beloved plants.

 

[f-e]

I keep a whale gp1692 as a spare. 12v, 14 meters. They are used in caravans, so I can get one within the hour. I used to use them as my main pump, while I waited for china to make something useful. Most emitters have a 10 meters requirement to work properly, and it's all I could get that wasn't as big as a shoe box.

Keep it in mind if you ever need a pump right away. They are not for continuous duty, but run 100 emitters. Which a pond pump can only dream about

 

[GenghisKush]

Following up: I am very happy with these pumps from the company "Ahead" in Shandong. I have several now.

Today I noticed that this pump (archive) is marketed as "for 3% Hydrogen peroxide disinfection machine."

f-e, you had a question whether a failed pump of mine (not from Ahead, but another manufacturer) was pumping any H2O2. Thought you'd appreciate in this intelligence.