2x3meter, 15 plant, 1800watt cheesey scrog

[Tokesome]

Just a quick update. Things are looking good. I`ve finished pruning beneath the screen, it was quite a job but its all looking clean and airy under there now. I`d rather do the pruning in more stages, I`ve only done an early prune, just to get the leaves out of the way of feedin, ie. around thew top of the pots, then this major pruning 3 weeks into flower.

I have pruned at various stages of a plants growth and never had any noticeable problems, usually just a spurt of growth shortly afterwards. But I`ve been giving it some thought after dialogue with Scroger, where he advocates pruning in stages rather than a big pruning session, and thinking about it that must undoubtedly be the best way of doing it. If not only for the fact that different strains may react differently, and just because your experience with strains has been ok, if you happened to get a strain that didn`t like this treatment it could be costly, so best to avoid the risk. I certainly will be from now on, I hacked a lot of vegetation off yesterday!

there`s still some stretch going on, but its steady and no problem. I`v still only pulled the tops down a little on the one tray as yet, the other 2 are lokking like they need a sort out now and I intend getting on with this tmro. It`ll be a few hours work as we`re talking about 3sqr meters to be done yet.

The colas are starting to form now, and I`m wondering if I ought to start applying a lowish dose of PK13/14, its the start of week 4 and the buds are forming.

I`ve upped my ec from 1.5 to 1.6.

Inoticed as I`m getting to the bottom of my bottle of Calmax that there are a considerable amount of crystals in the bottom. They haven`t been noticeable until the bottle became low. I`m not happy about it, I rang my hydro shop and they said bring it back in. I need to go for nutrients, zym, PK13/14 so I`ll get another bottle then.

I`ve been on B`cuzz nutrients this and the last grow, but I`m going to go back to Canna coco A+B, as I`d only tried a different nutrient to eliminate it from the problems I was having last year.

The plants dont seem to have minded, but I know its not good to mess with the balance of Cal and Mag, so I hope no issues arise as a result. I haven`t flushed these plants yet, so I may give them a flush once I`ve mixed a new res up with the new Calmax.

A mate told me his mate`s brother had some armageden cutting available, so I said yeah, get me half a dozen. . . . . . I wish I hadn`t though, I`ve never seen plants so neglected. I couldn`t really say much to my mate, he was just trying to be helpful.

These cost me £15

I`ve tried the bud that come from this stock and it was reallyu good, but FUCK ME (sorry, but I get pissed off with growers who can sell such shit to fellow growers, there is no excuse, total wankers!!)

Anyway I`ve potted them up and given them a caring mix of low nutes, rhizotonic and superthrive, and keeping them away from everything else. I think 4 of them will come around, but the other two look unlikely.

The best 4 will be going into a growtent of their own, quarantined if you like. I`d like to have this strain if the genetics are good.

That`s about it for now.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Citizen024]

Just as a note Toke (and I am sure your a wise man already): treat your new cutting like they have everything under the fuckin sun on them!

Mites, PM, etc etc. I treated some with just neem for a week and a half, kept em away from the est etc etc. . after being really religious about my cuttings, and I got mites. A frsh floramite dip is good for mites- or avid if your feeling really nasty. For fungus i would treat with SM-90 or Zone/Penetrator. Keep a close eye- especially the sickly one which are more vulnerable to disease. Fungus is easier to prevent then treat.

Glad to see your girls are looking so nice!

 

[Tokesome]

Yeah thanks mate, done of course. Dipped them in Plant Vitality. Its the best stuff I`ve ever used for mite eradication. Once only use, after that, if a bug happens to dare bite my plant, the little sucker dies!!! Non toxic to humans, though I never use it in the flowering period.

I wont put them in a recirculating system, and hopefully any fungas will not survive in the coco. They`re in clear plastic cups so should be able to see how the roots are doing.

I`m gonna have a stint at bringing down the rest of the leading stems/colas by 2-3 inches in my scrog now, its gonna be quite a job, but quite theraputic.

Toke

 

[~Shhh~]

I hear ya man, I got a few cuttings on my last grow that really did have everything under the sun on them! Ditched them and grew out some fem seeds instead, not before getting a partial refund though! Buggers...

On a brighter note I hear Armageddon is some killer herb, is that the same strain that goes for £150-£200 per pack of 10 beans?

Your scrog plants are looking healthy man, I usually do all my pruning during the stretch as the rapid growth soon eliminates any stress caused by plucking and trimming, as you said not all at once, as that would definitely stunt them a lil bit. Over the 2-3 weeks they stretch I do a bit daily.

Is it usual for the buds to just start forming now with ur cheese cut? Week 4 seems kinda late for first signs of bud unless a strain is a haze variety....

I'd say go ahead and lower your A+B a wee bit then add the PK13/14 at say 1/4 - 1/2 strength or whatever it takes to get your EC back to 1.6, this is what alot of people advocate regarding PK. I think it's bio-nova that has the regime that increases week upon week, whereas canna suggest 1 shot at 3 weeks before harvest on their bottles.

This is Bio-Nova's regime:

1st week of flowering : 25 ml./100 liter 2nd week of flowering : 75 ml./100 liter 3rd week of flowering : 100 ml./100 liter 4th week of flowering until the harvest: to a maximum of 125 ml./100 liter.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

well done pruing job

i take away a few more small branches per plant but in general that is very close to how i flower mine too.

peace

 

[Tokesome]

I hear ya man, I got a few cuttings on my last grow that really did have everything under the sun on them! Ditched them and grew out some fem seeds instead, not before getting a partial refund though! Buggers...

On a brighter note I hear Armageddon is some killer herb, is that the same strain that goes for £150-£200 per pack of 10 beans?

Your scrog plants are looking healthy man, I usually do all my pruning during the stretch as the rapid growth soon eliminates any stress caused by plucking and trimming, as you said not all at once, as that would definitely stunt them a lil bit. Over the 2-3 weeks they stretch I do a bit daily.

Is it usual for the buds to just start forming now with ur cheese cut? Week 4 seems kinda late for first signs of bud unless a strain is a haze variety....

I'd say go ahead and lower your A+B a wee bit then add the PK13/14 at say 1/4 - 1/2 strength or whatever it takes to get your EC back to 1.6, this is what alot of people advocate regarding PK. I think it's bio-nova that has the regime that increases week upon week, whereas canna suggest 1 shot at 3 weeks before harvest on their bottles.

This is Bio-Nova's regime:

1st week of flowering : 25 ml./100 liter 2nd week of flowering : 75 ml./100 liter 3rd week of flowering : 100 ml./100 liter 4th week of flowering until the harvest: to a maximum of 125 ml./100 liter.

Yeah couldn`t see any bugs with a glass, and I was told they`d been dipped for mites, but would you trust someones word that would pass on plants in such a disteressed state? No, me neither!

Dont know if its the same one that sell for 150=200 quid for 10 beans, I never bought any. . . ever! I`ve tried the weed though and it was very high quality.

I lowered my A+B from 130mls to 100mls, left the Calmax where it was at 6mls per 4ltrs and added 5mls per 10ltrs PK13/14. the result is ec1.6. With the addition of the PK the res now needs 2mls of ph down to get it 5.8 instead of 3mls ph down to get 5.9. Thats with RO water @ ph6.3.

The ATA PK13/14 actually says NPK00-17-18 on the bottle, whereas Atami`s other brand, B`cuzz, has a PK 13/14 that`s NPK 00-13-14. I dont understand this.

Wish you hadn`t said that mate, I`ve been worrying about the same thing, there are lots of buds all over and forming up the stems in cola formation, but yeah they do seem quite small for day23/63 compared with other 8/9 weekers. I just hope the early stress these plants had isn`t going to stop them from performing well. The next week or 2 should hopefully show that all is good.

I`ve never had this strain do this well for me though as I`ve had big issues here with my water and my stupidity. The growtent scrog did`nt do well last time and produced 4oz per plant, so I`d hope to do at least as well as that, but I know this set up should kick out a bit more than that. My last 2 grows were disasters and produced less than 30oz for the room, totally depressing believe me, hence all the upgrades and work I`ve put in to this one. The buds looked ok but just never filled out at all. I had some serious deficiency/lockout problem throughout the grow that I just couldn`t get on top of, hopefully I`m on top of it now, just hope I was on top of it in time to let them do their thing.

They`ve got nearly 6 weeks to go yet so there is time, and if they need a little longer that`ll be ok, and I dont know exactly how my mate`s, who had a bumper crop, was doing at this stage, but I know they did a lot of their building late into flowering.

I cant see why the plants should struggle too much, ie., looking healthy and vigourous, but I do hope they`re doing their thing through flowering ok. I need a good crop from this one to have any faith in this strain at all. Its out if it doesn`t earn its keep this time, I`ll have done all I can and I`ll be one sorry sod!

Ah well, I`m doing all I can, the rest is down to the plants.

Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Bones, missed ya there. Thanks, yeah, I`m lovin the lst (I likes my bondage) and scroggin, just hope my plants are gonna love it to the max too.

Toke

 

[~Shhh~]

Apologies mate, I read the above too quickly, I thought it was the end of week 4! Doh!! They look about right then man to be fair.... need to stop speed reading

And yeah mate, I think it's time to kick back and let the plants do all the hard work from here on

 

[Tokesome]

Aye no worries mate, after my last 3 grows my paranoia about buds not reaching potential is bubbling away all the time in the background to some extent, and easily tapped into, but I know I`m making every effort to make this work. Bloody hell though I do need a good grow or 2 under my belt to restore my confidence fully. I was sailing well for years before this last year.

Things are lush though.

I did notice a little interveinal yellowing on a couple of plants today whilst trying to even up the tops in the canopy. They`re mainly older leaves that were affected earlier on when the problem was in full swing, but there were just one or two smaller leaves with the discolouration. Maybe these were just tiny leaves back then.

I`ve levelled the tops a little and done a fair amount of leaf tucking on the middle 5 plants today. There was a gap in the screen right at the back that had no plant growing through it, so I cut the mesh out and now I can crawll under and stand up through the hole I cut and reach the previously inaccessible areas of the grow.

Its really getting to the limit, time wise, for pulling tops down to level the overall height of the tops and I have another 5 plants to sort out. I dont want to stunt or pull any buds under the screen, I`m more like cutting the trellise and pulling the bigger ones over a couple of holes to just pull them over and down a little bit. The result is a definitely better spacing of the tops and more tops getting the light.

I`ll sort the other 5 out tmro, and then it really is leaving them to it other than a good nutrient feed and regime and some leaf tucking to keep the buds exposed. . . . . oh and of course talking to them a little and encouraging them.

I`m loving the light movers, I have them paused for around 30 seconds at each end, otherwise they`re on the move. I can keep a 600 watt light in a standard shade around 14-15 inches away from the tops with no problem. Of course when its moving it cant be on all the area all the time so it never gets too hot, and I know it isn`t as good as two lights to cover the area that the one moving light does, but I reckon with the extra lumens when closer, along with the fact that light penetrates and hits almost everything at least for a while. its got to be the best use of a single light.

I`ll try and get some pics up tmro.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Tokesome]

EU-FREAKIN-REKA!! I`m totally convinced now that it was the water quality that`s been causing my problems over the last 3 grows. My cuttings would always be going yellow by the time they the roots were showing, but the cuts I have going now are kicking out good thick roots and still looking green and healthy. I`ve treated them no differently to usual other than using RO water. Poisonous water then eh? I`m more convinced I`m going to be in for a decent harvest in about 6 weeks now I`ve seen the difference of RO water on the clones.

I`m sure I made a note somewhere here on IC when I actually took these cuts but I`m sure they`re rooted up quicker than usual too. I potted 7 of them up today, I imagine more will be ready to pot up by tmro.

The Armagedden cuts seem to be greening up but no roots are showing around the edges of the beer cups yet except for a couple on the two that are really the worse of the 6, strange that. I need to make swome more space in my cloning cupboard. Its my next project. I want a removeable shelf and work with 2 layers, the top for moms and the bottom for cuts. It has to be a removeable shelf as its also the access to the loft space.

The newly rooted cheese cuts, as I said, looking nice and healthy.

All my plants have had their last rearranging and levelling, hopefully the work I`ve done will ensure more bud reaches the lights and as a result an improved harvest in both quantity and quality.

You can see where I`ve cut athe hole in the unfilled part of the screen, perfect for access to the otherwise impossible to get to areas of the grow.

I`ve got to be more careful to train some of the plant back into the center of itself, I seem to have trained every thing outwards and have a few bare patches in the screen above some of the plants, my recent levelling and rearranging has helped fill in some of these areas, but next time I`ll do better to start with.

Otherwise all is looking great, alittle dishevled after my playing with the canopy, but once they get used to their new positions I reckon it`ll be looking good for the duration now, just tucking obscuring leaves to be done.

Here`s a pic of how under the screen is looking now.

And finally I took a pick of one of the plants after its feed, nice run off going on there.

I`m going to shop for Panela tmro and start adding some of this to the res along with the PK13/14, after a recommendation from Bonecarver. I`ll tell ya more as I get it sorted.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Sorry, I`ve removed this post, I posted in the wrong place. . . . . stoned!

 

[~Shhh~]

Looking very good man! The screen has filled in very nicely.

Did you catch that post I made in the coco forum regarding canna's nutrients? It's an interesting read regarding the ppm/EC they designed their nutes for also covers a few other pointers on them too... I know you were running b'cuzz was it? But remember you mentioning something about going back to canna...

Panela ay, I have just started adding molasses to mine (1st week bloom) maybe a lil early, but as it is mainly to feed the beneficials I figured what the heck Seems some people add it in veg too...

 

[Tokesome]

Thanks ~Shhh~, Yeah I`m liking the look of the canopy, and excited at the prospect of it being full of decent sized colas.

I just took a look at the Canna info you posted, interesting stuff mate, is there more where that came from? I`d be interested to read it.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Tokesome]

After reading some info, thanks ~Shhh~, about the use of canna nutes and water, I`m now adding the Calmax first to get the desired ec of the base water. It says its designed to work with starting water of ec0.2, if its mostly made up of Cal and Mag. There is also 2% nitrogen in Calmag/Calmax so I gave a little extra to allow for that and started with ec0.3 then added 120mls A+B (B`cuzz, not Canna), 4mls per 10ltrs PK13/14. Then added 2mls per ltr Atazyme and 1.8mls ph down to have it at ec14 @ ph5.9.

Its a drop of 0.2 ec from my previous feeds, but only dropped the amount of Calmag. Hope I`m doing the right thing, it may be foolish as the plants look to be enjoying their selves.

I want to try and understand things correctly and try and know why I give what?

The nutes, both Canna and B`cuzz apparently have more than enough cal and Mag if the ec0.2 water is from mainly Cal and Mag.

I cant figure out how much ec value the 2% N has in the Calmax formula so I`m guessing at ec0.3 to start. I find it surprising that Calmax recommend 5mls per 4ltr/gal for soil 8ml for and aggressive formula, and 5-8ml per 4ltr/gal for hydroponics, how can they deduce that without first knowing your nutrient values????

I fed this to the plants and it only took a liter to cause run off. I did feed them earlier than usual though so I assume that is the reason for more moisture in the pots, rather than them not drinking so much.

The run off measured ec1.6 ph6.0 pretty consistently through the grow, just as I`ve been feeding the past few days so I`m assuming the ec1.4 I was feeding was pushing yesterdays out.

I`ll keep to the ec1.4 for a couple of days and just see that the ec of the run off doesn`t remain high. If it does I`ll give a good plain water flush followed by a lightish feed and then raise to where I think they need it.


Sorry just wafflng on really, but if I dont make a note of these thoughts, I`ll lose them to my lost memory files


I`m noticing quite a lot of transpiration moisture between some of the leaves in the canopy. My humidity is running in the low 40`s % loads of air transference too.

The temps are somewhere like 60f at the catching tray, around 63-65 at the top of the pots and most of the canopy is between 70f and 76f. Its around 82f under the two lights on the mover rails, but they`re never in one place for more than 30secs. Under the stationary 400w light the canopy temp is around 78/79f and under the stationary 600w light its upto 89-91f, the plants below it are not showing any signs of heat stress as far as I can see. Quite an uneven canopy temperature though. I think partly the reason there is such a high temperature under the static 600w is that its the only part of the grow that is up against a wall, the rest all has a border with free air movement, I think I`ll switch positions of the 400w with the 600w, I think that should balance things better.

You`ve got to expect some transpiration in such a crowded canopy where so many leaves are reaching up, some are inevitably going to end up touching each other. The little clip on fans are good but a little light duty for such a canopy, so I may put the 4 of them underneath the canopy for air movement and use the 2x8" and the 16" fans, that are down there now, up top to blow onto the canopy. Try to keep the leaves moving a little without ragging them up in the breeze too much.

Now the canopy has settled itself back in a bit I was surprised and a bit disappointed to see just a few leaves scattered throughout two trays, and in amongst lush looking growth, with the yellow interveinal signs that was badly affecting my grow a few weeks back. I`m hoping its just one or two leaves still discoloured from back then,

but there were one or two on the top fan leaves of a couple of newer growth shoots that I`m not really sure if they`d have even been on the plant back then,

but perhaps I`m just being a bit paranoid. If any one knows the history of my last 3 grows and this deficiency, they`d understand why I`d be a bit paranoid, having thought I`d seen the back of it only for it to return a few weeks into flower. I`m not getting carried away with it though, but I`m gonna be keeping a very close eye on them. I`m going to clip a little from the same point of every leaf that shows any signs of it, then I`ll know for sure if further leaves start to turn straight away. . . . . mind you though, I dont know WTF else I`d be able to do afetr all I`ve done

This is the best I can do with my phone for shots of the colas that are developing, they`re not stretchin too much as they have done on previous goes with all the problems.

COME ON BABIES!! Oops sorry, getting carried away there for a mo.

.

I didn`t get chance to shop for panela today but will hopefully be able to get to the supermarket tmro.

Toke

Ps. Can anyone tell me how I can make my photos thumbnail size, so that you all have a choice about whether you wanna view em?

 

[Tokesome]

Day 26/63

Day 26/63

Still no Panela, manyana! No, I really will track some down tmro.

I swapped the static 400 & 600 lights around, but its made little or no affect on the temps in the one area where its a bit too high. Ah well, I`ll probably keep swapping them over once a week so that they get things a little more even.

I`m changing the dinner menu from B`cuzz Coco nutes to Canna`s this week, hope the ladies don`t mind.

I`ve pruned off yet more branches and bud sites that wont make the light today, its a bit late on for doing it, but I`m still learning this scrog technique and have a much better idea of how to manage the next grow. Its still worth taking it off at this stage, there`s about 5 weeks left for them to bask under the light, so that`s 5 weeks they wont be wasting energy on so many popcorn buds, and I`m sure they`ll thank me up top.

Many of the colas are a good few inches long and forming nicely.

Canopy spread.

I do have 2 runts in the pack like this one. They`re both at the end of trays, I dont know if that is significant.

And they look a little weird too, like soft and shiney with a fair amount of crinkley leaves.

Nearly at the end of week 4 of 9.

Toke;-)

 

[Tokesome]

day 31/63

day 31/63

A couple of days into week 5 of 9,things are all looking cool.

Here`s a bit of a frankenstien pic of my grow, again with a photostitch program. Heh heh, it looks a bit odd but kinda shows the size of it.

Here are pics of the cola`s forming. They`re starting to get resinous too.

The 2 plant growtent scrog is half way through the chop, I`ve taken the tops off and letting the bud below have another couple of weeks, trying to firm up and ripen some of the but that`s been obscured from the lights. I`m hoping to avoid this here in the bigger scrog.

Toke

 

[hazy]

You've really got it happening in there now Tokesome. I'm really glad to see you got that Mg? def that's been plaguing you taken care of. Fantastic looking plants.

 

[litletown]

very nice

 

[stonescafe]

glad to see you have overcome your problems fella all is lookin good now m8 even them armas nice one

 

[Tokesome]

Thanks guys, its great to be back in control and good to see you dropping in and posting too.

Cheers Toke;-)