2016 Outdoor Garden of Eden

[WMICoastal]

For long season absolutely for short season I think 30 gallons to a pound is doable

easily. id look into a new line of work if i wasn't confident in getting over a pound outta a 30 gallon. If i could regularly do it in michigan in the swamps as a child....id hope it could be maintained 20 years later in optimal conditions.

i think 100s would be the most efficient on a 1 year use (as far as doing the math on initial inpu$ relative to first year yield.) without sacrificing plant health too terribly much if the person in charge of watering knows what they are doing. WIth that said I prefer larger pots for efficiency long term (multiple seasons) and plant health is always much easier to maintain and optimize.

cheers yall, happy harvest.

 

[caterpillar710]

Yeah but I'm talking about a lb from a 30 gallon on a short cycle in a photoperiod controlled green house... apples to oranges man.

 

[WMICoastal]

Yeah but I'm talking about a lb from a 30 gallon on a short cycle in a photoperiod controlled green house... apples to oranges man.

you should be getting 2. and i know you will

 

[caterpillar710]

I've never seen any one get 2 lbs from 30 gallons in a dep

 

[reppin2c]

Getting a lb from a 30 is no joke. I ran 30s in my dep, verdict is out still on an average but I think it's somewhere in the 1 range.

 

[plantingplants]

Cat, must be a lot easier to pull a lb from 30gal supplementing lights in a dep, yea? maybe you can call it a dep-supp.

 

[FoothillFarming]

That's hilarious! On another note, your garden is looking great, I've learned a lot from the dialog here. I'll be doing soil testing throughout the season next year for sure. Hopefully I'll learn how all the numbers interact with each other; salt up takes, micro interactions, calcium levels relating to everything else, etc.!

I did gypsum/EWC soil spikes a week ago and hopefully see a difference soon...

Thanks for starting the thread Foothill and for everyone who chimes in!!!

Thanks for participating. Glad you learned something, as I have learned a ton. Now can we apply it to next season like we all plan to? Good luck.

You only have until mid bloom to move calcium to the fruit tip before it starts asking for k to expand cell size the window on getting Ca to the plant has been shut.

1500 on better controlled plates (only one with UL listed controls) seems better than 5000!

If you really wanted to do it like Elysian you could always mount them sideways

I started my gypsum applications when flower first started, right when the roots were expanding again. So I hit mine at the perfect time. I agree, mid flower is better than late flower, but you really think Ca sulfate wouldn't harden those flowers a little? Say for a Oct 21st finish? Much more effective early, but futile?

Thanks for letting us ramble in here too, foothill.

I don't have personal experience with 34f but I read a lot about what they can stand. Your full seasons definitely shouldn't die and in a Hoop your fresh dep starts shouldn't either.

Don't you cuddle your girlfriends at night?

If you're going to worry yourself sick then maybe cover them with frost blankets to keep them warm?

I do cuddle my girlfriends at night, but the wife is getting pissed.....

Thanks as well for hanging out.

Isn't your dep in a green house? It should be a bit warmer in there Svennsson with no heat

Yea, I am going to close up the greenhouse at around 3pm, keep the heat in for the night the next couple nights. Should be ok.

i have lots of experience with cold nights on both vegging and full bloom plants. Ill bet any of you dollars to donuts everything will be fine. The hoop might be droopy for a day , but thats about that unless we drop into the high 20s for extended hours. thats when we see the serious problems and death pop up. please dont get me wrong....34 isn't ideal for the small ones, but not the end of the world.

the large plants will take it in stride and show some colors

damn right the glass is half full.

Hope you are right, and everything I have seen in the past indicates you will be.

 

[FoothillFarming]

Yeah but I'm talking about a lb from a 30 gallon on a short cycle in a photoperiod controlled green house... apples to oranges man.

Totally apples to oranges. Couple things different here. My best plant in my deps didn't even hit 1 lb this time around. Those are in 45's and up. I have hit 1 lb in a pot before, but selection this time cost me yield.

The other difference is lights. You add light, which I only imagine ups the yields. You don't "ever" hit 2 lbs a plant? Even on the bigger girls? I would think it's possible, however what size at flip, genetics ext ext all matter.

 

[DAT]

http://www.durokon.com/index.php?ma...1iij1rrq278l9a6fp1&keyword=extraction&x=0&y=0

Hi FHF,
The cement mixer was purchased at harbor freight. Hopefully this link for the funnel works . Double JJ Lone Oaks Farms thread on roll it up . He is a very nice and I'm sure can tell you a bit more about the accessories. good luck

 

[caterpillar710]

Yes I can hit 2 lbs on the big plants but it takes 100 gal, I got my house with lights right. Now pushing harder than I expected and they're translocating K for the last week and fading even though I've hammered them the last couple weeks. The battery is out of juice so to speak.

With the 30 gal bags there will be essentially no veg time in the 30 gallon bag because of the root expansion I can get in early flower. They'll just be coming out of 5 gallon nursery pots

 

[caterpillar710]

Yes , ten days after mid bloom nova found 80% of total ca in the fruit

 

[Oakhills]

Yes , ten days after mid bloom nova found 80% of total ca in the fruit.....
You only have until mid bloom to move calcium to the fruit tip before it starts asking for k to expand cell size the window on getting Ca to the plant has been shut.......

That is some valuable information right there Caterpillar! Good to know for next season. I also know next year to test soil throughout the season and make adjustments.

I did put in 50 pounds of Oyster shell flour and 20 pounds of CalPhos in my 3 beds measuring 3'x18'... About a month before planting the full season crops when I added all the other stuff back in May. I thought that would carry my garden for the season... I guess not! Live and Learn here.

I only discovered ICMag last year and I have learned so much from these outdoor threads. This year especially (I have been growing for personal use for 25 years). Gone are the days of putting in some guanos, kelp, etc., then watering in high P guano during flower.

With my limited space and climate (foggy overcast first 3 weeks of flower), it is good to know how to push the cannabis flowers to their fullest potential UNDER THE SUN!

Last year I made a bunch of seeds, and this year even more. Can't run them all, but running some Ancient OG f2's, several Ancient crosses, Salvadorian Landrace crosses I made this spring plus several Bodhi strains.... plus 10 males to pollinate with! It is super fun but also a lot of work.

Truly appreciated....and thanks for reading my fellow ICMag'ers.

It's all about producing the finest Cannabis we can, given our own unique situation.

My garden on 9/13....

 

[Jaymer]

Woah, so using CAL-MAG for the last 4-6 weeks is unneeded?

 

[slownickel]

Yes , ten days after mid bloom nova found 80% of total ca in the fruit

Cater,

When I spoke to Nova, they had little cannabis data, or little data over all in actuality.

How did they come up with that number of 80%? Did you send them a whole plant, roots and all?

The S. Africans in Stellenbosch perfected that science years ago looking at the partitioning of nutrients, but that was a bit more invasive, measuring wood, bark, roots, leaves, branches, fruit, seeds, etc.... not sure that one can do that with sap.

Care to elaborate a bit more on the Nova info?

As long as a plant is emitting new roots it is taking up calcium.... it is not a jump from one element to another. It is relative concentrations and more Ca allows one to have more K present at higher conductivity compared to less Ca.... The SAR concept at the soil level...

Paying it forward...

 

[FoothillFarming]

The thing that makes me think pillar710 is right........


You think about development, buds are fully formed after their September stack. So why would more Ca be needed the last month of growth? Should be there right? Not sure it's exactly the right timing for cannabis, maybe cannabis can be pushed later from what I have seen with SlowN's advice.......Very interesting.

 

[slownickel]

If they found "80% of the calcium in the plant in the fruit", what is that telling you about the Ca demand? In every crop, the key to fertility and seed production is calcium reserves.

So as long as there are roots sprouting, those root tips only want one thing, Calcium. Only active root tips can pick up calcium. The rest of the nutrients can be taken up by osmosis. Calcium can't.

This is why it is key to watch when the plant is throwing new roots. The plant is talking, we need to learn how to listen.

Someone had a good article posted in the front of the AEA thread and then it disappeared, it was about the partitioning on nutrients over time in Cannabis. Anyone have a copy still?

Avenger?

 

[FoothillFarming]

My garden on 9/13....
View Image

View Image

Nice work brother.

 

[slownickel]

I did put in 50 pounds of Oyster shell flour and 20 pounds of CalPhos in my 3 beds measuring 3'x18'... I thought that would carry my garden for the season... I guess not! Live and Learn here.

Oak,

Interesting layout, terraces made with wood, wow. That was some work.

What pH is your water? And your soil? There is an important dynamic between the two which will greatly change ones idea of which calcium source to use. And then there is of course, how to figure out if that calcium is really available to your plant or not.

If you have been reading these threads, you are probably realizing how important the soil/water problem really is and that most are not looking at the most important variables in the correct manner, much less able to measure things without getting the opposite conclusion.

Lots of folks thing they have lots and lots of calcium, yet all seem to see response to applying foliar calcium.

Here we are now seeing the sap measurement labs give us unbelievable numbers of calcium translocation within a plant, which goes quite against the grain of soil science. Neither Calcium nor manganese is relocated or cannabalized from other parts of the plant, all the other elements are retranslocatable.

This means that if we need Mn and Ca up to the end, those two elements must be picked up by the root to get to the flower or the seed.

Which all comes back to the basic idea of how to feed an annual like Cannabis.

I propose and use on other annuals high Ca to start with, mature up the plant to go into flowering and fruiting with K. Once I have achieved that, I push Ca again knowing that there is about to be a new root flush at flowering, needing Ca to establish root mass for the storage of carbos and plant assimilates along with Ca requirements at the apical growing points on each and every branch. Once started in flowering, wait until you get fruit set (for cannabis week 3 to 4) and then it is time to push K (along with some P if there is space). The key was the Ca at the optimum new root flush. High K at that moment is not good and greatly inhibits root growth.

Realistically Cannabis is picking up calcium up until it is harvested if it is not seeded.

I have some photos somewhere of a rhizotron. It is a window of plexiglas on the side of a plant that goes from the soil surface down 3 or 4 feet so one can see the roots, mark elongation dates, see root flushes etc... Your place would be easy to do it. Just need to cover the plexi from light as the roots will change color. They must stay in the dark.

In the case of Foothill, the range of the increase and decrease of K as a proportion of bases has been dramatic enough to see these changes in a soil/medium analysis within 6 to 8 weeks, which for me is a new one.

Uptake in flowering of Ca is dramatic, as are the other metals. K only needs to be supplied constantly at reasonable levels to achieve high quality with decent production levels. Roots can take high K provided there is enough available Ca.

In alkaline soils with alkaline water gypsum can be applied three to four times a year, knowing that it will not build up, that it disappears as does N. Calcium sulfate spiking works extremely well too.... the oyster shell is an excellent material if ground fine enough, but with alkaline water, availability will be lacking and most likely not supply enough Ca to the plant fast enough in those key uptake moments.

 

[Oakhills]

Quote Slownickel----What pH is your water? And your soil? There is an important dynamic between the two which will greatly change ones idea of which calcium source to use. And then there is of course, how to figure out if that calcium is really available to your plant or not.
My Ph on soil is 6.8, water is 7.9 at the moment (City water through a Hydrologic Tallboy). In my area in Oakland, Ca, I can do 20+ plants, but have a limited space (about 400sq.ft.).

I added a bunch of Peat back in May to bring the Ph of the soil down to 6.7ish, a month before planting.

Your reasoning seems solid Slownickel, the roots send out a wave of new growth at the onset of flowering, utilizing Ca in a heavy way, and as Caterpillar says, other nutrients will be needed after the roots spurt their growth, looking for K.

Thanks for helping us all learn together in this matter!

I'll be experimenting with a Sativa hybrid that just began flowering a week to two ago planted into a 25 gallon smartpot that is calcium heavy with gypsum. The control Sativa will be in a 2.5 gallon Airpot that I feed with nutrients. It will be a learning experience.

Thanks Foothill and sorry to hijack your thread

 

[caterpillar710]

Sorry praying at the temple of woo for the next five days but the crop was cherries.