2012 Legalization Effort Starts

[mean mr.mustard]

most of us are for MORE freedom to choose how you get your MJ.

id like to see the freedom to choose not to be forced to get a med rec.
freedom to choose to grow my own under recreational.
i guess we differ on our versions of freedom?

Who's forcing what now?

I choose to grow my own.

I guess we do.

I don't want the "if, then" to apply to our legitimacy.

Tell me what we should carve our image to be... and if the answer isn't "Whatever we want" then I'd tell you our versions of freedom most certainly do differ.

But I've always thought that all along

 

[dagnabit]

Tell me what we should carve our image to be... and if the answer isn't "Whatever we want" then I'd tell you our versions of freedom most certainly do differ.

But I've always thought that all along

dont get me wrong i believe freedom does mean the image can be whatever you want..

freedom allows for stupid too...

so you can make medicine look more like cheech and chong..your more than free to do so.
my point is if we temper our image we are alot more likely to effect the changes we need to get actual freedom instead of having to have a doctors note like a fucking school kid.
i never suggested anyone be forced into any image.
i said (maybe it missed you) if we lessened the abuse of medical by implementing recreational the image of medical would improve.

 

[THE PABLOS]

I'm unsure of how to go about cleaning up our image.

Every year I pay a Doctor $75 to update my card....he offers a different card for $200something that allows for more plants...which is just a complete ripoff of course...it doesn't buy me shit.

The very first card I ever had....I met a fairly infamous Doc in downtown SD...at a coffee shop. That's where my exam took place...over coffee. He gave me my paper work and a free ash tray with his advertising logo. Still have that ash tray. We were both laughing at the system I guess. He had/has offices in SD, Haw and LA...funny dude...stoner Doctor...living the dream.

From a Herbalist and adult point of view....it pains my ethics to have to pay a doctor every year (the process is quick at least...and the waiting room is never not full) to receive permission to use Cannabis....non traditional medicine recommended by a certified medical doctor is laughable to me. I jump through that hoop every April.

From the outside looking in....I would see the image issue.....from the inside looking out...I see the image issue.

We can not blame 215 for our image however....and I would not bring attention to 215 to improve our image. If you think we need to clean up the image of 215 to press on with possible legalization....you are conceding that the two are linked...and that one will affect the other. And that is a problem for many that already enjoy medical status....no one wants their boat rocked.

I'm honest in saying....most peeps I know out here...feel like they are happy under the guidelines of 215. Most voted against 19...not because of greed and cash cropping....but because they do not feel threatened by law and do not want a spot light blasting on what we already have in place. They don't want to poke at the sleeping lion.

If roles were reversed....and say...Iowa was the "front line" it would be no different. They like us....would want to safeguard what they already have. It's not always greed that drives peeps...sometimes it is the survival of happiness that motivates.

If....you want to tear into our medical status to push on with the legalization agenda....it's easy enough to do. I wouldn't expect help from the natives though. Eventually it's all going to come to a head...all waves close out....but I don't think you can ask us to pass up on a fun ride while it last.

How can we go about cleaning up our image without exposing our flaws? How can we tell peeps not to profit off a gray market?

I do not think you can....unless you want to take it away and say "see I warned you".... med status Californians are not going to go for that.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I think the best thing to do is to not separate the issues.

The people want pot.

Plain enough.



We're not going to look any different than the government when they have to admit they've been fibbing.

 

[THE PABLOS]

...Concessions. Medical is a concession made by government and accepted by subjects. It is legitimacy...in that sense.

Government is the entitled one here....not the other way around.

If the idea is to make it all one balloon....fine.....as long as we have the medical safeguard...but I already know...no matter what some think....eventually Medical and home growers will be eliminated. No use for either...if herb is legalized/regulated. That's business....trim the fat. Control market. Buy it in the store....you have no need to grow your own.

All the outdoor grows may fly up North....but down in the southern suburbs....it ain't going to. I promise you. That will be a major issue...especially when schools are in your hood. This is a reality check....ever been in track housing?...little boxes...little boxes....full of peeps not down with pot.

It needs to go out of California. It needs to be on a Federal level. So....let's pick a better state to make our statement....one the average non pot smoking American can take serious. Not this old whore...that is blatant in her trade....and has everything to lose.

 

[dagnabit]

If....you want to tear into our medical status to push on with the legalization agenda.

you got me completely backwards.
what i said was pushing recreational will strengthen medical by lessening abuse of the system.
not
tear into our medical status to push on with the legalization.
the two are opposites really.

 

[THE PABLOS]

you got me completely backwards.
what i said was pushing recreational will strengthen medical by lessening abuse of the system.
not
tear into our medical status to push on with the legalization.
the two are opposites really.

I didn't mean it directly to what you were saying Dag....more a general theme...since there seems to be many that think our med system is kind of shady. I'm admitting that there is much shade....and that it is an easy target....but please stay hush about our problems.

I think recreational would have to eliminate medical....so it would lessen the abuse.

 

[igrowone]

....eventually Medical and home growers will be eliminated. No use for either...if herb is legalized/regulated. That's business....trim the fat. Control market. Buy it in the store....you have no need to grow your own.

this is one of the major issues, or at least the perception is
some form of regulation/legalization where unauthorized growing stays an evil to be controlled
it's hard to see how this could happen from the current state of affairs
legalize it tomorrow and the small grower isn't going away, they're going to keep doing what they're doing
unless law/penalties are increased for the small grower?
not impossible i guess, but just doesn't seem realistic
fines maybe, but heavy jail time seems futile, it just doesn't work

 

[THE PABLOS]

this is one of the major issues, or at least the perception is
some form of regulation/legalization where unauthorized growing stays an evil to be controlled
it's hard to see how this could happen from the current state of affairs
legalize it tomorrow and the small grower isn't going away, they're going to keep doing what they're doing
unless law/penalties are increased for the small grower?
not impossible i guess, but just doesn't seem realistic
fines maybe, but heavy jail time seems futile, it just doesn't work

Well....I don't think you'll be growing a bunch of plants in your backyard is what I'm saying.

My neighbors for example...home schooling three christian kids...would not be down with that sort of crop.

Then the argument from their point of view...."why do they need to grow their own....when they can buy it at the 7-11?"

It's not like home brewing....it's big stinky drugs in a residential neighborhood. I mean I do it....on the down low....but then again...I'm more considerate of peeps than some are.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

It needs to go out of California. It needs to be on a Federal level. So....let's pick a better state to make our statement....one the average non pot smoking American can take serious. Not this old whore...that is blatant in her trade....and has everything to lose.

Great post. As this conversation continues, the argument against tax/regulate (commercial/recreational pot) in CA grows.

Dag has one over simplified point, that we are abusing MMj in CA, and recreational/commercial pot MAY change that, allowing other states a better chance of passing MMj laws. This is based on huge self-serving assumptions, and has nothing to do with what is best for patients in CA. All systems get abused, we are a loophole society, that doesn't stop with MMj. State laws will vary, some are lax and some are strict. You can cry about it all day, or you can move to CA. But changing CA law to suit your state... not going to happen. If CA wants taxed/regulated cannabis we will have it. Currently, we do not want it. Our MMj system is very easy to be a part of, and we have a large anti-corporate sentiment

Attacking our abuse of 215 will get you nowhere. Actually, if anything, you have shown that CA growers were right when they didn't vote, and let 19 fail. You have also shown that CA is in fact the best place to be a grower, and it may be that way for some time.

There are two current groups with 2012 tax/control/regulate in the works.

First is CCHH 2012, which has zero chance with voters as it favors 100% legalization and has huge limits. They are counting on JAH passing this bill for them... so not going to happen.

The other group is Lee and his buddies. They are revamping 19 without the 5x5 for recreational smokers. So any adult would be able to buy it/smoke it (as long as Lee grew it), but can't grow it. This one has a better chance with CA voters. And as soon as the details are released we can argue about it. Until then... it's just dag masturbating.

I am certain this thread has convinced many that CA does not need tax/regulation of cannabis. And that commercial/centralized cannabis production is not needed, and not good for jobs in CA. Recreational AND commercial cannabis need to come from the fed, not the states. It is clear that a federal approach to the rescheduling of Cannabis is the correct path for the US.

Individual states need to focus on creating, expanding, and protecting medical marijuana, based on compassion and science.

 

[dagnabit]

I didn't mean it directly to what you were saying Dag....more a general theme...since there seems to be many that think our med system is kind of shady. I'm admitting that there is much shade....and that it is an easy target....but please stay hush about our problems.

I think recreational would have to eliminate medical....so it would lessen the abuse.

i just see it as one more option.
i would keep my caregiver status as well. but to me freedom=choices
the more options a person has to achieve a goal the more freedom they have.
if you are limited to this one government sanctioned method then your freedom is limited.

 

[igrowone]

Well....I don't think you'll be growing a bunch of plants in your backyard is what I'm saying.

My neighbors for example...home schooling three christian kids...would not be down with that sort of crop.

Then the argument from their point of view...."why do they need to grow their own....when they can buy it at the 7-11?"

It's not like home brewing....it's big stinky drugs in a residential neighborhood. I mean I do it....on the down low....but then again...I'm more considerate of peeps than some are.

i think you're dead on with this point, there is a gap between theory and practice
like someone mentioned in Colorado, there's this sense, 'they need to legalize it'
which translates the public wants government to come up with some 'wise' scheme where it's legal BUT not visible
which is quite a trick, some level of compromise from all parties will probably happen, will it be in 2012 in California?

 

[dagnabit]

it's just dag masturbating.

my favorite troll is back..
keep your fantasies to yourself?
the adults are talking.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

will it be in 2012 in California?

I do not think so. We haven't seen any final drafts yet, although some are in support without regard to details and facts. LMAO at these jokers who obviously do not live in-state, and do not care about Californians, yet expect us to care about them. We can scape goat CA until we see the 2012 details. The we get to divide the community again over the details, and wait for these 2012 props to fail. Then go back to the blame game and more divisions. Yay politics!

Undoubtedly, many here will blindly support any tax/regulate proposition that CA puts up, fooled into thinking this is legalization. And folks like Krunchbubble will be against it. What actually matters (yes, your opinions are practically worthless) is how Californians vote, and all this blame game is only pushing us to preserve what we have.

You can keep blaming us and attacking our abuse of 215. Folks like myself and Krunch will rally in opposition to these attacks, and tax/regulate will fail as a result. The divisions need to stop, not be perpetuated by this anti-215 garbage. Centralized commercial production is not what CA wants right now. Crying about it won't change that. Neither will talking shit and pointing fingers.

We all want the federal rescheduling of Cannabis, to schedule 2. This is a realistic and non-divisive goal that would bring actual (not assumed) benefit to every state.
FEDERAL RESCHEDULING SHOULD BE #1 PRIORITY.

 

[THE PABLOS]

....Civil boys.....let's be civil....ignore buttons if you can't.

Theory and Practice...true that. But I guess you never know until you at least get to that point.

What pablos thinks:

1. man has no business regulating the cultivation and use of plants

2. pablos knows that as a commodity plants will need to be regulated

3. #2 cancels out #1.....whether i agree or not.

4. 215 is very good to the californian pot enthusiast...patients and doctors

5. 215 is flawed and abused...in some cases....infused with criminal activity.

6. pot smokers in the world are discriminated against....wrongly

7. because of #6 I can see peeps justifying #5 in the abuse

8. lots of "taking care of my family" cash croppers are doing a little more than just that.

9. I am friends in real life with many #8s...and know the reality

10. nobody should go to jail for smoking pot

11. I fear legalization/regulation will be the beginning of the end for the legal home grower

12. pablos will break the law if #11 comes true

13. M= Marijuana....Mary Jane...Mota....free her up

 

[dagnabit]

....Civil boys.....let's be civil....ignore buttons if you can't.

Theory and Practice...true that. But I guess you never know until you at least get to that point.

What pablos thinks:

1. man has no business regulating the cultivation and use of plants

2. pablos knows that as a commodity plants will need to be regulated

3. #2 cancels out #1.....whether i agree or not.

4. 215 is very good to the californian pot enthusiast...patients and doctors

5. 215 is flawed and abused...in some cases....infused with criminal activity.

6. pot smokers in the world are discriminated against....wrongly

7. because of #6 I can see peeps justifying #5 in the abuse

8. lots of "taking care of my family" cash croppers are doing a little more than just that.

9. I am friends in real life with many #8s...and know the reality

10. nobody should go to jail for smoking pot

11. I fear legalization/regulation will be the beginning of the end for the legal home grower

12. pablos will break the law if #11 comes true

13. M= Marijuana....Mary Jane...Mota....free her up

+1
all agreement!

 

[kmk420kali]

Recreational AND commercial cannabis need to come from the fed, not the states. It is clear that a federal approach to the rescheduling of Cannabis is the correct path for the US.

Isn't that the same thing that was said before 215 passed??
Also was that not the basis for the Lawsuits from SD and SB Counties....that were shot down by SCOTUS??
They made it clear that Fed Law does not trump State Law--
Sure...DEA still comes in and flexes their muscles...but has it stopped 215?? No--
If Legalized, there will simply be too many for them to even make a dent in by raiding-- They do not have the resources--
If Prop 19 did anything...it showed the Politicians that Public support is waaay more than they anticipated!! Even tho they try to use the spin, "The People don't want Pot!!"....they still know, it is here to stay!!
The hard part of these discussions is, there are no concrete right or wrong answers...but it should be obvious to all, that "The times they are a-changin'!!"
Many want it all, in one step....but I don't believe it will happen like that-- We need to get a Voter Initiative passed....then work on it from there--

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

Isn't that the same thing that was said before 215 passed??

Yes, but sick people and stoners are not the same. MMj is backed by medicine and compassion for sick/dying people. Commercial cannabis for recreation... is backed by corporate greed.

Many want it all, in one step....but I don't believe it will happen like that-- We need to get a Voter Initiative passed....then work on it from there--

What sort of voter initiative? Tax/regulate for commercial/centralized production?
And why do you feel we need this considering our current lax MMj laws?
Respect.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

10. nobody should go to jail for smoking pot
(They are not in CA under current laws)
11. I fear legalization/regulation will be the beginning of the end for the legal home grower
(that is the issue, although many would like to ignore this)
12. pablos will break the law if #11 comes true
(in which case, we are better off as things are now)
13. M= Marijuana....Mary Jane...Mota....free her up

Agreed 1000x with one simple addition...
FREE HER UP CORRECTLY!

 

[THE PABLOS]

Agreed 1000x with one simple addition...
FREE HER UP CORRECTLY!

....affirm