2000-2400watt Sealed/non sealed grow room construction....HELP in Design

[hazeywonder]

yeah you are all right it was an infestation. All the other plants were treated with floramite but these were to late in bloom. They pulled through ok. On a side note. I would recommend floramite to anyone this stuff is awesome. these ran next to other plants and the ones treated with floramite remained untouched.

 

[darthvapor]

i have a question. If sealed rooms and cO2 with A/C is such a great idea, why dont the dutch use it? thats about as commercial as you can get and most dutch growers are commercial. reason I ask is Im debating sealed room or open room with really good ventilation myself

 

[Guest]

Could it be possible the Americans have discovered something the Dutch have missed lol?Just kidding if I were running a huge auditorium fulla plants like a lot of those lucky funkers you bet I'd concentrate more on air circulation and distribution,they are going to get huge yields that way regardless.If you are running a bedroom fulla plants and you seriously want to maximize production for whatever reason(mine is certainly not dinero),the co2 enrichment is the way to go.It cuts down on finishing time and increases yield,but only if everything else is totally perfect.

 

[RamCTD1027]

Let me first say thanks for all the help from everyone here. It has definitely helped me narrow down my options and I am slowly figuring out what I plan to do with the room.

Two questions which I need the experts to help me answer.

1. Is it okay to take the air intake for the air cooled lights from an adjacent room and vent out the window? My room is in the basement with only one mini-basement window facing outside. I cant run an intake/exhaust from the same window so right now my only other option is to intake from the adjacent room.

2. This one deals with Co2. I did some research and found out that with a Co2 generator, one pould of fuel produces 1.5 pounds of water and 21,800 BTUs of heat. It said "for grow rooms less than 400 cubic feet, this makes generators unusable." My grow room is 420 cubic feet. Is a Co2 generator unusable in that space? If so, what else can I use? I planned to use the Blu OX CD-3 propane generator but if this cant be used in a room of my size, then I dont know what I should do.

I appreciate all the help so far.

RamCTD

 

[RamCTD1027]

MTF-

I read in another thread that you use a Co2 gen in the winter and bottle in the summer. I assume you do this due to the heat buildup from the Co2 gen. What bottled Co2 system do you run?

The optimal temp for the grow room when running Co2 is right around 85f. I have a seperate area where my ballasts will be (digital), as well as the res chiller, res, dehum will be placed in the wall, etc. What do you use to keep the room temps up at 85f? Are you using any heating source or will the heat from the lights keep the temps up? Do you recommend placing heat generating devices (res chiller, ballasts, dehum) in the room to keep the temp high and then use the ac to balance the temp in the optimal range? I plan to run 3 1k lights with cooled hoods (6" or 8" cooled hoods...not sure yet) so I assume that the head generated just from the lights will not be enough to keep the temp up at 85f.

Thanks again for all your help.
RamCTD

 

[Guest]

i have a question. If sealed rooms and cO2 with A/C is such a great idea, why dont the dutch use it? thats about as commercial as you can get and most dutch growers are commercial. reason I ask is Im debating sealed room or open room with really good ventilation myself

A sealed room is better because for one you have a closed in, controlled enviornment that you can tweak, but with an open air design you risk bacteria and other things coming in among other things. Also you can reach a more constant Co2 level within your grow area.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Let me first say thanks for all the help from everyone here. It has definitely helped me narrow down my options and I am slowly figuring out what I plan to do with the room.

Two questions which I need the experts to help me answer.

1. Is it okay to take the air intake for the air cooled lights from an adjacent room and vent out the window? My room is in the basement with only one mini-basement window facing outside. I cant run an intake/exhaust from the same window so right now my only other option is to intake from the adjacent room.

2. This one deals with Co2. I did some research and found out that with a Co2 generator, one pould of fuel produces 1.5 pounds of water and 21,800 BTUs of heat. It said "for grow rooms less than 400 cubic feet, this makes generators unusable." My grow room is 420 cubic feet. Is a Co2 generator unusable in that space? If so, what else can I use? I planned to use the Blu OX CD-3 propane generator but if this cant be used in a room of my size, then I dont know what I should do.

I appreciate all the help so far.

RamCTD

1. That's perfectly fine for your light cooling...

2. Don't believe all that shit. 1 lb of water isn't much at all (it weighs like 7lb's a gallon). You'll be adding less than a gallon a day...Just let your dehumidifier take care of it.

read in another thread that you use a Co2 gen in the winter and bottle in the summer. I assume you do this due to the heat buildup from the Co2 gen. What bottled Co2 system do you run?

The optimal temp for the grow room when running Co2 is right around 85f. I have a seperate area where my ballasts will be (digital), as well as the res chiller, res, dehum will be placed in the wall, etc. What do you use to keep the room temps up at 85f? Are you using any heating source or will the heat from the lights keep the temps up? Do you recommend placing heat generating devices (res chiller, ballasts, dehum) in the room to keep the temp high and then use the ac to balance the temp in the optimal range? I plan to run 3 1k lights with cooled hoods (6" or 8" cooled hoods...not sure yet) so I assume that the head generated just from the lights will not be enough to keep the temp up at 85f

Yeah, it's mainly for heat reasons...my AC could handle the burner in summer, but it's just extra power being wasted since I can do it without adding the heat. In winter/cooler months it helps keep the room up to the temps I like. It's just a hydrofarm reg/solenoid setup on a timer. Hopefully in the near future I'll get a PPM3 or similar to maintain a more precise PPM level.

85f is the bottom end of the "optimal" temp range IMO...the dehumidifier, lights and burner will easily take care of getting you to that temp. I'd remote the ballasts so that you're not having to cool the heat they produce, but the dehumidifier has to be in the room to take care of the moisture in it. Ultimately, you'll just need to do a dry run to figure out what you have to have in the room and what can be removed since you're climate is probably different than mine (unless you're that dude down the road that just setup a room )

 

[darthvapor]

you think it would be possible to build some kind of a box around the exhaust for the dehumidifier so that you can attach a hose and fan and vent the extra heat created by the dehumidifier. those things get kinda hot. at least the one i have does

 

[EZB581]

RamCTD, I've been following this thread closely. Does the 6 by 10' floor space allow for one to squeeze around the outside edges?

 

[Guest]

The greeen air cd-3 is made for a 300 cu ft room,the cd-6 for 600 cu ft,the cd-12 1200cu ft etc so yes you can use a burner in your area.I also agree with MTF that 85 degrees at top cola level is a minimum,if you run non cooled vertizontals like me that temp may be 80 degrees 10 or 12 inches on down the plant.I like to read 90 at the very tips of my cola's with a lazer thermometer

 

[RamCTD1027]

MTF: Thanks again for all the great info and answering all my questions. You stated that you think 85f is at the lower end of the "optimal" temp for sealed rooms with Co2. What would you say the "optimal" temp would be? And no, I am definitely not the guy down the street from you (at least I dont think I am)

darthvapor: Many people do things like that to remove the heat produced from the dehumidifiers. Some people will build an AC/Dehumid wall where the AC and dehumid are placed in the wall (like a window AC unit) and all the heat/exhuast is then removed from the area behind the wall. Like MTF said, sometimes it is better to keep the dehumid in the room to use the heat to help keep the room up to temp. It just depends on your setup and what temps you are trying to achieve.

EZB581: With that foot-print, I am hoping to have enough room to move around the room to tend to the plants. The room is 6' wide and I only plan to have 2 plants along that width. Hopefully it will provide enough room...I will have to wait and see.

smilin bob: Thanks for all your great info also. As far as the Co2 generator, which one would you recommend? CD-3 or CD-6? I am right around 420 cft. In your post back at the beginning of the thread i believe you said you like running the vertizontals. I did some research into them and I will not have enough room to run them in my space. I think the vertizontals i found were 4' x 4' and running 3-1ks, i would not have enough room for the hoods.

And to everyone...I plan to order my lights in the next day or two. I am still debating btwn 4-600s or 3-1ks. I think because I plan to grow bushes, the 3-1ks would be better. In my room (with its size), would it be better to try and go with an even canopy and go with 4-600s? Also, I plan to veg/flower in the same room for now and I will eventually build a sep. veg room. People tell me to use MH and HPS in the room throughout the whole grow, for veg and flower. Should I go with a combo or all HPS? If i went with the 3-1ks, should i get 2 hps and 1 MH? If 4-600s, what combo? Or like i said before, should i stick with all HPS? Thanks again for all the help.

EDIT: I dont want to start a war by asking this but....should i go with digitals?

RamCTD

 

[Pops]

Ram, I'm not sure what you are talking about when you say hoods for the verticals. Verticals are bare bulbs hanging from the ceiling and have no hoods. Your horizontals have hoods. You have not mentioned your electrical situation or else I have missed it. Three 1000w vertically hung bulbs with ballasts will take 3 15a lines, as they are approx. 9.1-9.3a each. Your 600w lights will take about 5.5 or 6a and could be hooked up 2 on a 15a circuit, but just barely.

The 3 1000w lights will generate 10,500 BTU of heat and the 4 600w about 8700BTU. When you use a/c, figure 20-25% above the BTU needed so the compressor doesn't work all the time.

If you are growing bushes, you can place 3 1000w vertical lights down the middle or 4
horizontal hooded lights(hopefully aircooled to reduce a/c needs). Personally, i would go with all HPS, as that is what I am used too.

Don't worry about power usage. I know people who are using 5 megawatts each month in a 3 br and have been doing so for a couple years. just pay the bill on time.

 

[RamCTD1027]

Pops: Thanks for the quick reply. Definitely some good information there. I think you mis-read my last post; that or I didnt write it correctly. People kept telling me to consider "vertizontal" reflectors. They are just too big for my grow room.

As far as electric, I have that all taken care of. I am currently wiring a 60 amp sub panel in my basement which will be used to power the grow room.

You said I could hang 3-1ks vertically down the grow room. I didnt intend to hang them vertically. I planned to hang them horizontally with air cooled hoods. Do you think this is okay or would you suggest vertically hung 1ks to grow bushes. Thanks again for all the help.

RamCTD

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I run mine at 90 right now, but I've heard of rooms going at 100+ with no heat stress issues.

You might wanna check out the CAP CO2 gens as well...they're expandable, so you can get a GEN1 with a single burner (stock config) and add burners as you need them. Each burner puts out about 3 cubic feet of CO2 per hour, so you can tweak it to meet your needs. The "E" series CAP CO2 gens also have an electric ignition so that there's no pilot light burning...but they're another $100 more than the standard ones.

For the lights, I'd go with the 3 1k's...if you're concerned about the MH/HPS thing, just get some full spectrum HPS bulbs (like hortilux eyes) and you'll have all the benefits of HPS with most of the benefits of MH lighting - that way you won't have to order different bulbs/ballasts.

I'm not a digi fan...yet. They just seem to have too many bugs in them still, but alot of people here love them. If you do get digi's, make sure you order them from a place with good customer service and get some with at least a 1yr warantee in case they aren't the quality that they advertise.

 

[Pops]

Quite honestly,Ram, I don't know if you will get as good of light coverage with the 3 horizontal 1000w as you would with the 4 600w. If you turn your 1000w so that the long side covers the 6' width, each light would be 2.5' apart, 2.5 ft from the back wall, 5' ft. from the back wall and 7.5' from the back wall. This would make them more difficult to air cool. The 4 600w could be put in a box pattern and each would have to cover a 3 x 5 area. Will work either way. Your room, Your choice. Vertically hung usually gives deeper penetration into the canopy, but forces you to have the lights lower and limits where you can put the plants, just around the edges.. Horizontal gives less penetration, but allows more plants in the room and allows air cooling which is important.

I see what you mean about vertical reflector, but they still sit horizontally. The vertical lights just hang down with no reflector. Either way, big heat buildup in a small room.

 

[darthvapor]

Im in california and I have a 10X12 room with 5 1000w hps aircooled. I have a small 5000 btu window a/c I got a can 100 hooked up to an 8 inch fan and I got a 4 inch fan for intake. I can add more lights but the room is at 87F with the lights on and 65F with the lights off. I have more of a problem with cooling the room than needing the heat in there. Thats why im considering co2 because you can run hotter and benefit from the rapid growth. Never realized I could be running hotter into the 100F range but still that would freak me out to see that on a thermometer. still undecided about it. When I asked a few growers about it in amsterdam everybody was totaly against it and said waste of money. Im also un shure if my skills are developed enough to handle such a fast growing garden. what if mistakes happen or nute burns. How much time is there to react how fast does that co2 make the plants grow. Sounds like its steroids for cannabis.

 

[Guest]

My flower room is just over 8 by 8 with 3 vertizontals delicately placed lol,IMO you cant beat them.I've never flowered under aircooled hoods though,I veg with a vented 1K hydrofarm though.I'm just really partial to the vertizontal for flowering plants,the shallow 4ft parabolic just disperses the light so widely and evenly.The thing about hoods is depth.A deep hood tends to concentrate the light straight downwards,great for veg when the plants are less spread out IMO.The vertizontal is rather shallow and disperses the light in a wider area,this is great for flowering plants that are spread out more.Its really a matter of personal preference,verts are great if heat isnt going to be an issue or especially with co2 enrichment

 

[RamCTD1027]

With all this help from everyone, the setup of my grow room is gonna be a breeze. Thanks for everything.

MTF: If you run your room at 90 lights on, you running around 80 lights off? I was always under the impression that lights on/off temps should not vary more than 10f so that is how i've grown in the past. Is this true?

In reguards to the CAP Co2 Gen, I will definitely look into those more before I purchase the generator. I like the idea of expandability with the CAP generators and last night I did a little research and found that CAP claims their burners run up to 100f cooler than comparable products. Obviously I will go with the "E" series as I dont like the idea of a pilot light constantly burning.

As far as your lighting recommendations, I am going to order 3 1ks with hortilux bulbs. Although pops suggested 4-600s for better coverage (even canopy), I plan to grow bushes so I think the 1ks will be better. You stated you are not a "digi fan....yet." and after reading all these threads about people having so many problems with their digis, I think I am gonna stay away from them until all the bugs are worked out. What type (brand) of ballast would you recommend?


Pops: I do appreciate your input as you make very good points. Since I plan to grow bushes, I am more concerned with canopy penetration as opposed to an even canopy. I will get better penetration with the 1ks so I think that is the route I will take.

In reguards to cooling, you stated that I should places the lights with the long side parallel with the 6' width. In the arrangement, cooling the lights would be more difficult. If I use 8" hoods with an 8" vortex pulling, would it be able to handle all the 90 degree bends when hanging the lights in that config. you suggested? Or would I be better off placing the long side of the hoods parallel to the 10' length? Thanks for the help.


darthvapor: I am not aware of your complete setup so I cant answer your questions completely but I can offer a little advice. First, your AC is WAYYY to small for your room size/amount of lamps you are running. My room is 10' x 6' and with 3-1ks, I plan to run a 12k-15k btu AC (the 15k btu will probably be a better choice). As Pops said a few posts back, 3 1ks put off about 10500 btu so your lights would put out about 17500 btu. In order to handle those, you would need an ac with 20-25% more output so the compressor wouldnt be constantly running. That means you would need something over 20k btu to properly cool the room.


smilin bob: I will eventually give vertizontals a try. Everything I read about them seems positive; however, I dont have the space to run them now.



RamCTD

 

[StealthSniper]

i have a question. If sealed rooms and cO2 with A/C is such a great idea, why dont the dutch use it? thats about as commercial as you can get and most dutch growers are commercial. reason I ask is Im debating sealed room or open room with really good ventilation myself

I'm dutch, and I use it!!! LOL

 

[MTF-Sandman]

MTF: If you run your room at 90 lights on, you running around 80 lights off? I was always under the impression that lights on/off temps should not vary more than 10f so that is how i've grown in the past. Is this true?

What type (brand) of ballast would you recommend?

I wouldn't worry about the temp swing unless it's dramatic. I've tried using the same night/day temps, higher night temps than day and cooler day than night and they all seem to be pretty much equal in terms of plant growth. Supposedly you can have warmer night temps (creating a negative DIF) and it'll make the internodal spacing tighter...I didn't see a difference using a -6f DIF.

Hydrofarm and Sun Systems are some good "plug and play" ballasts...but I'd feel just as good about some I put together from parts at the electrical supply store.