2000-2400watt Sealed/non sealed grow room construction....HELP in Design

[RamCTD1027]

I just finished rough-framing in the area I will be using for my flower room. The room is 10' long x 6' wide x 7' high. There is a separate area which will be used to store the ballasts, res, controller, etc. As for the grow system that will be in the room, I plan to use a 8 or 10 bucked recirc DWC modeled after Blazeonup's writeup here on the forum. I thought I had the whole room design planned out and as I read more and more on here, I realized that I have no clue what I wanna do for my room design. This room is tucket away nice in the corner of my basement with only one little foundation window in the room. My goal is to design/build the room once, the right way, and not have to make too many changes to the room there-after. I have LOTS of question so for anyone who helps out, I greatly appreciate it.

My first question deals with the size of the grow. Some people tell me to run a 8 bucket DWC system and some tell me to run a 10 bucket DWC system in the 10' x 6' room. Which would be best in the size room I have?


Lighting: My ideas are all over the place when choosing the proper amount/type of lights for this grow. The ideas i have/have been told:

-2 1000w lamps in cool tubes vertically hung
-2 1000w lamps horizontally hung (possibly on light movers)
-3 to 4 600w digital horizontally hung

I will consider any ideas that people recommend. The room is only 7' tall, and I plan to grow some large bush-type plants so i am thinking, if i go the horizontal light route, it may be hard to run 1000w lamps since they have to be a good distance from the plants as well as from the ceiling. This wouldnt leave me to much space to grow the plants veritcally. What does everyone think?


Room Type: I have been hearing a lot of people now mentioning "sealed rooms." I tried doing some searches on them and I wasnt able to come up with too much info. What I do know about sealed room: provides the user the ability to completely control the entire environment; only intake/exhuast is for cooling the lamps; humidifier/dehumidifier and AC/Chiller used to control the environment as well as CO2; provides the ability to completely control odor from leaving the room (as well as properly sealed).

With my current location, controlling odor is of great importance. I am in the states, in a location where you not only have to worry about the pigs, you also have to worry about people sniffing the grow and trying to steal it. If a sealed room something people recommend? My only concern is the high electricity cost when running this type of grow. I live in a 3 bedroom house and by the rule of thumb, you can run up to a 1000 watt lamp per bedroom, so 3000watts. In the sealed room, you also need a cooling mechanism, in which case, and AC, which uses a lot of electricity also. Does anyone have any links to information about sealed rooms and setting up sealed rooms? possible pros/cons of using a sealed room?



That is all I can think of right now. I know there are a lot of questions up there and sorry for that. I wanna get this room up and running within the next couple weeks so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

RamCTD

 

[SEEDYNONO]

somebody get this guy some info on sealed rooms!

i'm looking into this as well. likely will try to stick with 600's..

i was always curious as to how rooms were sealed.. if a bedroom is like sealed around the windows/doors/vents.. i guess this is not the same as building a room inside a bedroom and having the mini room sealed.. like a large cabinet type thing..

sorry i'm no expert on this but i'll stick around in case they come around.. cause i'm looking into a larger room.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I'd go with 2 1k's for that area...for odor control, just use a scrubber and recirculate the room air through it. Since the "dirty" air is passing through the scrubber much more often, the odor is better removed from the air.

You'll cut down on the cooling needs dramatically if you run a dedicated cooling duct for the lights (intake and exhaust come from outside room). Running an AC and a dehumidifier is pretty mandatory tho....as well as a res chiller for water based systems.

I wouldn't worry about the power consumption since it's in a 3 bedroom...just pay your bill and they'll never notice.

 

[hogwild]

if i were you id run the 1000s, your room is plenty tall, and the distance you have to keep them away from the plants is BS. If your using air cooled light hoods and your cooling them with a powerful fan, you should be able to get those suckers within 12 inches of the tops without issue. Also, if your going to get an AC, get one that is window mounted or a 2 seperate unit setup. One with the radiator mounted remotely and the mini central air setup inside the grow room. If you get a portable AC, it will rob your Co2 and you dont want that.
Also, your going to need a powerful carbon scrubber to eliminate the smell, this will have to be run from a seperate blower than the one cooling your lights.

The idea behind having seperate inline fans for the lights and the carbon scrubber is based on the sealed room concept. The fan that cools the lights has an intake thats located outside of your grow room, preferably in an area where there is cool air. The exhaust for the lights leaves the grow room through an exhaust vent. The other fan sucks air through your carbon filter and out a duct line, exhausting outside or in another area than your grow room.
The reason you would set it up this way is if you plan on using Co2 you can simply turn off your fan that controls your carbon filter. If you were using only one fan to cool the lights and filter the air through a carbon filter, you would have a problem, because every time you tried to turn off the fan to let co2 levels rise, your temps would shoot through the roof because your lights would not be air cooled during the co2 injection.
Your best bet is being prepared for the hot temps. You could start growing now and half way through your grow be totally screwed because of the summer temps. Just some thoughts, hope it helps.

 

[hogwild]

forgot to add, with that much space you could run 3k watts if you wanted to. If you want better coverage and less canopy penetration get the 600's but then you have to buy 4 200$ cooled hoods. You dont have much space for light movers, they take up vertical height, I would go with 3k watts if you can though, you wont be sorry!

 

[hazeywonder]

hog hit it on the head:

I love my sealed room. I feel that there are alot more benefits to it once all set up but the initial investment is alot. You are going to need a few extra things no mater what. Fan for the lights, fan for the scrubber, ac, dehumidifier, air cool hoods, co2? + normal system stuff. The real benefit is to be had with the co2 which is why you would want to seal it up and the piece of mind no smell escaping. Check out my links my room is about the same size i run 4x600 and i love it.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

^^Yeah, 3k is definitely doable in that space...lots of light is never a bad thing when you're running CO2.

 

[Guest]

I would go with 3 1K fixtures also,my flower room is 8 by 8 so nearly the same in square footage,3 1K's will get you 50 watts sq ft which you need to flower effectively.If you have a window I'd consider running uncooled 1 K vertizontals and a kickin window unit.I'm partial to the vertizontal though,if you can "best the heat" I doubt you can do better than an open 4 ft octagonal parabolic.

 

[RamCTD1027]

Everyone, thanks for all the quick replies and all the great info. Definitely helped me make up my mind that I will make this a sealed room. Now we get down to some more questions.

I guess we will start with the lighting. Everyone seems to vote for the 1ks. It is obvious that i can run 3 1ks in the space without a problem; however, I am a little worried about power consumption. 3 1k lights plus descent sized AC plus dehumidifier and a bunch of other things which will draw power. In a 3 bedroom house, you think this would throw any red flags or do you think I would be fine running 3 1ks? The only reason I considered 4 600s was little less power draw and an even canopy. I do like the idea of better canopy penetration with the 1ks.

My next question deals with AC units. Some tell me to get window mounted units whiles others tell me get portable units. I have read about Two Hose Portable Units; one hose for intake and one hose for exhuast. The idea here is that the intake hose is places outside the room and the exhuast hose is also placed outside the room. No CO2 robbed from inside the room. Anyone running a dual hose AC??? Also, does anyone know what size AC i should use for this room (10'X6'X7')??

Next question is about CO2. I started looking into CO2 systems for the room and I think i have decided on the Blu Ox Generator. As far as a controller, i am not sure which i will use yet. Still have to look into that. The question i have about CO2 deals with when to use it. On another forum, I read from a guy who grows SOG that you dont turn the CO2 on until you begin to flower. That is fine when you are only vegging for 5-10 days but when you veg for 3-4 wks, this must be different. When growing larger plants in buckets, when do you start with the CO2? The guy also said that he matches his CO2 PPM with his nutrient PPM. As he increases nutrient PPM he increases CO2 PPM. Does this seem right?

Last question deals with the scrubber in the room. One person said hook the scrubber up to a fan and just recirculate the room air through it back into the room. Another person said hook the scrubber up to a fan and vent the air outside the room. From what I have seen in other pictures of sealed grow rooms, the scrubbed air is recirculated in the room. Is this the right way of doing this?

hazeywonder: You told me to take a look at your links; however, there arent any links in your signature. I would like to take a look at your setup since you are running 4 600s which is something i may consider. Any more info about your set up would be great. Everyone is telling me to run 3 1ks and before i choose to do that, I wanna hear some info from someone running 4 600s to see what they think. Thanks for the help

Again everyone, thats a lot for the help. This site has helped me out a significant amount and once i start ordering parts and finishing the room, i will keep everyone posted.

RamCTD

 

[RamCTD1027]

One more thing I forgot to add. Is anyone familiar with Growtronix? Recommended? Pros and cons? I am considering using it to control the entire garden. Let me know what you think.

RamCTD

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I guess we will start with the lighting. Everyone seems to vote for the 1ks. It is obvious that i can run 3 1ks in the space without a problem; however, I am a little worried about power consumption. 3 1k lights plus descent sized AC plus dehumidifier and a bunch of other things which will draw power. In a 3 bedroom house, you think this would throw any red flags or do you think I would be fine running 3 1ks? The only reason I considered 4 600s was little less power draw and an even canopy. I do like the idea of better canopy penetration with the 1ks.

I wouldn't worry about it...I'm running that much juice in a MUCH smaller home. Yeah, the power bill kinda sucks at times, but it's not unreasonable. If you pay your bill on time, you'll just be a favored customer of the power company since you're creating more profits for them. Just don't do anything insane like run 40k in a 3 bedroom and you'll be fine.

My next question deals with AC units. Some tell me to get window mounted units whiles others tell me get portable units. I have read about Two Hose Portable Units; one hose for intake and one hose for exhuast. The idea here is that the intake hose is places outside the room and the exhuast hose is also placed outside the room. No CO2 robbed from inside the room. Anyone running a dual hose AC??? Also, does anyone know what size AC i should use for this room (10'X6'X7')??

Window units or mini-splits are the only way to go for sealed setups (smilin bob has some personal experience on the portables). Window units and mini-splits are also alot more efficient - so that's gonna lower your power bill somewhat.

Depending on your climate a 12k-15k AC should take care of ya...possibly less (8-12k?) if you live in a typically cool climate and have a good air cooling system for the lights.

Next question is about CO2. I started looking into CO2 systems for the room and I think i have decided on the Blu Ox Generator. As far as a controller, i am not sure which i will use yet. Still have to look into that. The question i have about CO2 deals with when to use it. On another forum, I read from a guy who grows SOG that you dont turn the CO2 on until you begin to flower. That is fine when you are only vegging for 5-10 days but when you veg for 3-4 wks, this must be different. When growing larger plants in buckets, when do you start with the CO2? The guy also said that he matches his CO2 PPM with his nutrient PPM. As he increases nutrient PPM he increases CO2 PPM. Does this seem right?

Blu Ox is a good one...as are the green air or CAP products. CAP burners (what I have) are expandable tho, incase that matters...

I run a SOG in mine and if I could veg them under CO2 I would...there's no reason to waste time vegging them if you don't need to - and if you're looking at bush/tree's that could shave a week or so off your veg time which equates into more runs per year.

The plants will definitely require higher nute strengths in a properly dialed in CO2'd room but you'll need to experiment to find the sweet spot for your strains. They're also gonna suck up and transpire more moisture so be prepared to remove that moisture from the air (especially during lights off).

Last question deals with the scrubber in the room. One person said hook the scrubber up to a fan and just recirculate the room air through it back into the room. Another person said hook the scrubber up to a fan and vent the air outside the room. From what I have seen in other pictures of sealed grow rooms, the scrubbed air is recirculated in the room. Is this the right way of doing this?

If you've got the stuff to run a sealed room, there is absolutely no reason to be exhausting air from a scrubber - that is the reason it's considered a sealed room after all :wink: Just recirc the air in the room...

Never used the growtronix stuff, but automation is rarely a bad thing IMO...

 

[RamCTD1027]

MTF-

Thanks for the reply. I dont have a lot to time to write back right now but I have one quick question. You said you havent used Growtronix but you do think automation is a good thing. Is there any other "automation" type products on the market that you do recommend for the room? Thanks for the help.

RamCTD

 

[hazeywonder]

Ram- Sure, I like them but you say you want to grow some bushes so i would probably recommend the 1000's in that case. I like the 600's if your going to try and run a nice even canopy. Here is a picture of my setup. This is from last week there have been a few changes mainly I'm upgrading to better hoods these 5' cool tubes have been a hassle. I also run C02 out of the tank currently. but in a sealed room it really can't be beat. I don't know what to say other than any way you go you will be happy.
Ill get one more of the new hoods tonight. well half haha.

 

[hazeywonder]

Ram- just saw a few post on automation. here is a cheap ph controller all you need is either a little pump and dilute the solution or a smaller pneumatics? pump. Its pretty easy to set up and if you get it for fish tanks, you get a free co2 tank regulator and valve. for under 150.. I run soil now so i don't use the alarm/controller just for ph and its a nice unit.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Milwaukee-SMS12...oryZ3212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[MTF-Sandman]

MTF-

Thanks for the reply. I dont have a lot to time to write back right now but I have one quick question. You said you havent used Growtronix but you do think automation is a good thing. Is there any other "automation" type products on the market that you do recommend for the room? Thanks for the help.

RamCTD

Just automating the simple stuff like waterings, having a CO2 controller, dehum that kicks on at a certain RH, auto topoff on res, AC that only runs when needed and things like that will save you alot of work/energy down the road since you can leave the system on autopilot for days to weeks at a time without having to touch it. That leaves you with time to do other things in your life besides babysit a grow. PH automation would be cool, but if your nutes are right you shouldn't have to do much tinkering on PH levels.

 

[Guest]

Hazy I could be mistaken could be the camera but bro your fans look totally spidermite infested to me,if I'm mistaken and its the camera sorry bout that.If not sure take a loupe to the undersides of the leaves,hell the way they look in that pic forget the undersides for eggs they'd be all over the leaves,If I'm not just plain goofy in the head

 

[SEEDYNONO]

i think he'd notice.. probably just the camera/lighting setup..

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Dunno...that looks like an extensive mite infestation to me as well...

 

[RamCTD1027]

Again, thanks for all the info.

MTF, or anyone else who would like to chime in. Since I am building the room in my basement, I only have a small foundation window, which I will be using for either intake or exhuast. When it comes to an AC, when you say window unit, do you mean mount a window unit inside the grow room and let it intake and exhuast right in the room? If not, it seems my only option is for a mini-split.

How often are you running the fan/scrubber in the room? I would assume not at lights ON when you are pumping up the CO2 PPM but do you constantly run it there after? In my old room, I had an inline scrubber hooked to my exhuast so whenever air moved out of the room, it was scrubbed. Just trying to figure out the scrubbing cycles in a sealed room.

How are you releasing CO2 into the room? At the top of the room in one place or all around the top of the room using some sort of hose with little holes in it? CO2 is lighter the air in the room so i would assume that you release from the top of the room and let it drop down ontop of the plants. If i am wront, fill me in.

Thanks again for all the help.

RamCTD

 

[MTF-Sandman]

How big is the window? I'll bet they make an AC for those windows if they're some sort of standardized sizing...but a mini-split is an awesome AC for situations like yours - just a little pricey for most folks.

If you're recirculating the air in the room through the scrubber, try 1 hour on/1 hour off 24/7. There's no air leaving the room from the scrubber, so it doesn't matter if it's running while the CO2 is on (hence sealed room :wink. Run your fan that's air cooling the lights as you normally would...just use an intake/exhaust point that's not from the grow area.

Right now for my room it works out that I dump CO2 for 15 minutes every 2 hours to keep my PPMs in the 1600-1800 range. I'm running a burner, so I just placed the burner over one of the oscillating fans in the room and it does a good job of dispersing it evenly. CO2 won't layer out like most people think...sure there's slightly higher concentrations down at the bottom of the room (CO2 is heavier than air), but it's only a 100-200 ppm deviation with adequate air circulation...probably none with excellent airflow within the room.