1st Grow - Kovenant's story

[kovenant]

RamCTD --> good to hear, ill stick to that plan. already got my 6" netpots to drop a couple of clones into soon as i get these others transplanted over (which should be in an hour or so... ill update below whats going on.)

pontiac --> thanks! i know im excited and i hope all enjoy the show.


update:

got the water chiller hooked into the system last night. had a leaky run. constant start-stop-tighten... wasnt too bad, had it all dialed in within about 20-30 minutes of the original test run. only place tightening wouldnt help was at the water chiller in & out... had to wrap some teflon tape around the fitting, push the tube over it and then clamp it down. the shitty thing was on the drain tubing - we were getting leaks at the ebb & flow fittings EVEN WITH hose clamps. just had to tighten a bit more, but was worried of crushing or breaking the plastic fittings.

so... got everything tight and what happened? the 4 3/4" shut-off valves are defective. cant believe a company would sell shit like this. and a big landscape/plumbing company at that. anyways... off to the store to find functional replacements. once done, will throw the system back on - hopefully all is sound. then will make up my nute solution and bring the girls over.


quick question - need some advice. i want to veg a week longer in the buckets - to at least pull some root growth down into the buckets... okay, okay - this may go 2 weeks. i just want some good root growth. so ~ i know i 'could' but should i use the 600W HPS flower bulbs for this? i know next grow when i start my veg here i will need to get MH veg bulbs... but how well can i get away with using the flowering bulbs for a week or two?

stay tuned!

 

[MID TOWN]

Nothin wrong with using the hps bulbs.

What size pump are you usin for your chiller?

 

[kovenant]

soooooooooooo....

oh my god f*ck me running...

first off let me answer your question:
Mid Town -> i purchased the MH veg bulbs anyways, since i will be veggin next round in the buckets - had to have them anyways.

as for a pump for the water chiller... (?) im not using a pump specifically for the water chiller. i have the pump inside my controller that basically pushes water directly into the chiller and then the chiller has its out feed directly back into the system. i got the "1x eco 264 gph water pump" just as suggested in Blazeoneup's tutorial. i bought the Active Aqua 1/4hp Water Chiller from one of my local hydro shops... just found the link online so you could see which.

now back to my "holy bajesus!"

... so now im either going to need an AC unit or find a way to vent the chiller OUT of the room... and ASAP. good thing my woman is off work today and can monitor things.

did the transplant last night after getting the buckets up and running. one of the reasons why my system had some leaks and wasnt as 'leak-tight' as Blazes' is because the 3/4" tubing is actually 3/4" black PVC... thanks local guys for pawning something for something else. well - it was cheaper (but in the grand scheme - whats $60?) so when i upgrade i will probably replace the whole system with soft vinyl so things can be moved around and such.

once that water chiller got plugged in and cooling the water - i realized "wowzers! its hot in here!" the chiller increased my room temps by 5-10 degrees!! so it was in the 89-91 range yesterday afternoon (when normally would be lights off: noon-6pm) but thats damn high. i am going to buy some DIY stuff and make a venting tube to vent the exhaust on the water chiller (already popped of the back to take a look.) I can always vent it outside the small window i currently have closed - and only allow the exhaust to it (in other words, keep it closed for 'room' purposes... but allow the chiller to vent out.) if that doesnt cut it alone - ill be forced to get an AC asap. hoping i dont need to, but if i do - i will.

when i checked in at 4:30am before coming to work, the room was 84... usually its about 76-79 around that time, so that a is quite a jump!

i can/could also vent the chiller directly up into the duct above it, that pulls through the lamps and into the attic. maybe i should do that as opposed to messing with the window and creating possible 'light leak' issues. any advice?

i took my SLR camera up to take some good shots of everything last night. but had to keep working, and it was getting late so i had to get to bed (got 4 hrs sleep!! whooohoooo)

ill get them up ASAP for all you all.

i ran veg nutes through the buckets with some multi-zyme and root excellerator. pH'ed my water 5.7 and was 850ppm after all was said and done. didnt get a chance to check it this morning at 4am... but will be checking it asap to make sure its stable.

more to come soon!

 

[kovenant]

here it is... update as promised ~ and with pics!

Week 5 veg (normally this would be week 1 time, but had the vegging in the trays for 4 weeks while i finished getting the room together after multiple set backs. im almost there! need to vent the water chiller and/or get an AC unit and should be it.

i am using mostly AN nutes. Sensi A, Sensi B, Sensi Cal, as well as Liquid Karma, Multi-zyme, and Root Excellerator. First bucket mix I did equal parts of Sensi A, Sensi B, Sensi Cal, and Liquid Karma. (40 tsp of each) and did 4 oz of Multi-zyme, 2 oz of Root Excel. which brought the veg mix in at 950ppm. added pH down to achieve 5.7pH.

came home from work during lights off period (noon - 6pm) and room temp was 84F. 10pm room temp is 91... i know its hot, i still need to vent the water chiller. bought supplies today to DIY a duct from back of water chiller to window - will try to get it done asap as i dont want to run the room hot AND i want to get it cooled down so that CO2 can run (hot means constant vent running - which means no CO2.) im interested to see how long the CO2 lasts with the room sealed and just the open window. keep in mind, the window is open but has a tapestry facing out, 2 stacked AC air filters, and layers of black nylon mesh to keep it 'midnight'... all those layers block alot of airflow - but allow some cool air to filter in by the draw of the exhaust duct.

its technically the 3rd day in buckets. the ladies are green, healthy, and thriving. was worried about getting the water level right with the rockwool cubes... but they are getting water/nutes and the rockwool isnt wet. so far so good. ive added a little pH down each day - seems to rise from 5.7pH to 5.8 or 5.9 each day... probably the plants adjusting the the new nute solution as well as some evaporation. the heat from the water chiller has the room humidities in the 30-40s range... id rather have it 50% RH like it was prior, and we'll see what venting the water chiller does for the temps and humidity.

here are the pics. i apologize for just how long its taken.

my now "pre-veg" and mother room


the DWC setup





and the ladies...




hope the much needed update appeases some appetites. ive been loving the progress... just wish i had begun my veg in the buckets and had my shit together from the get-go so id be in flower now. but its a learning process and im happy to be experiencing it as it comes.

please leave comments ~ its the reason im sharing my grow!

 

[MID TOWN]

Those girls are lookin great!

You NEED to have at least a 650gph pump hooked up to that chiller! I have the same one in my room with a 750 and you can use up to a 1000gph pump. you wont want to run your chiller's outfeed to the buckets as it will be much too powerfull so just have it go right back in the controle res and your other pump will feed the buckets the cold water. I know what ya mean about the chiller puttin out a lot of heat and if you realy want to exhaust it youll have to have a fan sucking it out. just hooking up some ducting to the back wont work. any loss of air flow through the chiller will lower its ability to do it's job dramaticly. just having my chiller close to the wall reduced the cooling capacity to zero but I put a fan in front of it and problem solved. and of course your other option would be an AC which would enable you to seal the room and run co2 properly.

 

[kovenant]

Midtown -> Thanks!!

well. good to know that venting it to the window (without a fan) wont work... which makes sense because the output on the chillers exhaust is nearly non-existant. i realize an AC is my best bet - which will give me a dehumidifier to boot... another $400+ but obviously worth it. of course, humidity is NOT a problem right now, the heat from the chiller is sucking water from the air and my RH has been about 35-45%... is that bad?

the girls this morning were a just starting to wilt... i opened my controller and manually top-fed before leaving to work at 4:30am. glad i check daily before leaving. here is a pic of the worst wilting lady

should i be top feeding during this period or should i raise the water level in the buckets? the hydroton the rockwool is sitting on is 'damp' not moist or wet and the rockwool is not absorbing any water (but they've been unwilted and thriving - as you saw from the pics last night - for 3 days when they required daily watering before.) by the way - after top feeding they sprung back up fine within minutes... they were good before i left to work (within 10-15 mins.) i top-fed about 2-3 cups of water per plant from the controller.

also. in my pre-veg tray i still have the mom - which i need to transplant soon... as well as 2 additional TW's that i LST'ed and the Romulan (i was going to make a mom from.) not sure if i mentioned it here but the Rommy had spider mites. they infected 1 branch of each of the other 2 TW's in the tray. I have bombed the room after transplanting (yesterday) and been treating the plants individually with a foiler anti-spider mite spray for about 5 days (when i spotted them.) was easy in the trays, turned the plants over and sprayed the bottom of the leaves well every other day through now. i picked off infected leaves and gave the stems and node areas a light rub down to try and help eliminate the problem... seems to have worked and i cant spot anything new or continuing - that is also why these 3 are isolated and on the opposite side of the tray than the TW mom-to-be. was waiting to see which TW responded better to the extra treatment and was going to transplant it into the last bucket (not sure if you noticed 1 empty bucket in my system.)

i also noticed some type of burn on the mom-to-be. i dont believe it can be nute burn... before transplanting these girls were getting about 700-800 ppm nute solution in the tray. did a flush for a couple days, and now they have about 400-450ppm when i water. also, isnt nute burn normally a yellow-rusty looking burn? these are very dark and only on the tips... and only on the larger fan leaves. here are a few pics



any ideas?

as for the pump and water chiller. a few questions before i buy another damn pump. Mid Town, you said:

you wont want to run your chiller's outfeed to the buckets as it will be much too powerfull so just have it go right back in the controle res and your other pump will feed the buckets the cold water.

i dont understand how it is too powerful. i ran the system before the water chiller was attached to make sure i was leak proof (ha! that was fun.) and after the chiller is attached it has the same flow out of the feed tubes into the buckets - which is not that powerful, but its not slow either. i also wonder that just circulating the controller water through it (and back into the controller) seems it would tend to recirculate the 'cold' water back through the chiller as much as out of the other pump and into the system... which means the water would be colder in the controller than the rest of the system (but maybe only by a degree or two.) im sorry, i just dont understand why because it seems to be fine.

i have noticed the heat caused by the chiller has decreased since day 1... all the initial heat created by the chiller having to lower the water from 76F to 69F was higher than just having to maintain it once there. heat was 88F @ 4:45am... again, still too hot so i will probably purchase an AC.

im looking at costco.com and homedepot.com for ACs... would something like this be fine?

Royal Sovereign 9,000btu
Royal Sovereign 10,000btu
Amcor 10,000btw

now... i know higher $ can mean quality. keeping that in mind - ive spent about $2k more than intented so my budget is more than tapped. i want to get something adequate that will work well, and keep my head (financially) above water. the last model is from homedepot and has 2 good reviews.

i know this is tons of info with alot of questions. thoughts??

 

[plumpm0nkey]

Growing hobby isnt cheap

 

[RamCTD1027]

Kovenant-
First off, ladies are looking great. I will definitely keep my eye out for all updates.

Two quick things for you.
1. As far as an AC, i just picked up a 10,000 BTU Fridgidaire from Lowes for $208 and it was rated the best AC for 2005 and 2006.

2. As far as a pump for your chiller, I believe 1/4hp chillers need a pump anywhere from 600-1000gph. Right now I have a 1/4hp chiller and i use a 1056gph pump for it. In my controller, I have two pumps. A 264gph pump that pumps my feed line and a 1056gph pump that pumps the water to my chiller and then back into the controller. You DEFINITELY want separate pumps for the feed line/chiller. This will also allow you to keep the chiller further away from the ladies thus reducing the temps in that area.

Good Luck.

RamCTD

 

[kovenant]

plumpm0nkey --> no, it sure aint but it will pay off

RamCTD1027 --> you seem to always come through at the right time

so... just went to lowes.com and dont see any AC units for that price. what make/model did you pick up? that sounds EXACTLY like what i need... a great little unit that does the job and keeps me from selling my first born. edit - just called the closest Lowes and they only carry one 10,000 btu portable AC and it sells for $449. please let me know that make and model

as for the pump. guess ill pick one up today or tomorrow for the chiller. going to have to drain the system to detach the chiller from the system and re-hose it the other way (Mid Town - thnx for being the first to point out my mistake in tubing.)

i just realized something i can do when i move the chiller back... let me know you're thoughts. there is a little trap-door type 12"x10" hole against the back wall of the room (opposite end than the buckets) that leads to the shower plumbing in the bathroom that butts up against this room. its cool in there but probably doesnt really 'vent' anywhere or have air flow. was thinking if i removed the trap-door and moved the chiller close to it... letting it exhaust the heat into that compartment... would it just fill with heat and pour back into the room and around the sides of the chiller causing problems, or would it be a benefit, or do i just need to do it and monitor the response? problem is, the res sits in the corner of the room on buckets and plywood (to keep it elevated above the controller) and ill have to move it some because it blocks half of that trap-door. if you dont think it will make enough difference to do that - i wont drain the res and move it. lol

i should probably just get the pump, re-gear the water chiller, get a cheap AC, seal the window, and... be done? yeah, right. lol

you guys rock. please keep commenting, watching, and helping me out! much appreciation and respect.

kov

 

[Guest]

all i can say is outstanding..... pulling up my chair to watch da show....

 

[dr.bonsai]

Growing hobby isnt cheap

you just have to have a sick setup... i spentlike maybe 400bucks and i made tripple the in the first grow it pays off quick. if only i had more space

dr. bonsai

 

[kovenant]

Green Label & Dr Bonsai --> good to have new faces! please do stay tuned and watch the show. feel free to chime in whenever - its good to know people are watchin, but i actually know they are watching when they contribute to the convo!

i wish i only spent $400. but i hear you. you get what you put into it. and $400 is still a big investment. i havent tallied it all up, but id say $4k into it. easily. i can only hope to get two times what ive put in on this first. hopefully i can pull it off


Mid Town -->

so i have a 700 gph waterpump lined up to pick up at the local hydro - for about $75. also - wondering if i was to try to go without the AC (which was totally doable with the temps the way they were prior to the heat from the chiller) and just vent the chiller outside... would using a fan as small as this one work well enough for venting that air out? mind you, i position the chiller just under the window so it wouldnt be but 2' max of duct.

 

[RamCTD1027]

Kovenant-

I just checked the Lowes website and they dont have it listed on their site. This is the exact AC i purchased except the one I got is a 10,000BTU model.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=205394-48789-FAA087P7A&lpage=none

Definitely stay away from portable units. They dont last long and they will rob your CO2.

I know you are already so deep into this project but the best idea would be to get a window AC, seal up the flower room completely, and run that CO2 you have. You will not be sorry about that choice.


As far as the placement of the chiller, i suggest you give it a try and see how it works. Place a small fan in there to keep the air circulating. I have my chiller, res, controller, ballasts, etc etc in a separate "closet" type area right next to my flower room. It does get pretty hot in there but I like to keep the heat-generating components out of the flower room. My AC is a window mount AC which I have mounted in the wall (not in a window). I made a box so i can vent the heat from the AC out of the "closet." If need be, I can vent the chiller out of the "closet" also but it hasnt gotten that hot in there yet. With your situation, as shitty as it sounds, the best thing is trial and error. Give it a try and see how it works. If i gets too hot in that trap door area, you can always try and vent that heat out of the area. If you do notice it gets real hot, you will need to do something (move the chiller or vent the area).

Keep up the good work.

 

[kovenant]

- edit - posted just after RamCTD so wanted to include answers to his here

RamCTD --> ah, its a window unit you have. i am thinking i 'have' to go with a portible unit. the only window large enough to fit an AC unit is the one located behind the buckets (in the boxed in bucket area.) the small window near the res (where i can vent out of) is only about 12" wide when opened full... nothing going to fit in there. plus this is the 2nd story on a rented condo... cant get outside to mount it, and cant cut hole through the outside walls as you have. that sucks to hear that the portible units all suck. it was what i was relyinig on.

i suppose i will just need to try a few things, as you suggested - and see what happens. environment dictates probably 70% of how things work, and work together... im glad ive gotten alot of helpful information so far, that also is helping me make these future decisions.

alright. so here are a few questions i need to get some answers to asap - so i can move forward.


should i get a small fan and run a small exhaust from the chiller to the window no matter what? is it worth the time and small expense - i already have the supplies - to run this exhaust even though im getting an AC? im thinking yes because it will be easier on the AC to cool 'normal' room heat than the added 5-10 degrees caused by the chiller... but the room would be better sealed if im not venting to a window... suggestions please.

because so much time has been pushed (umm yeah, like day 32 of veg now) and im still dialing in the room. i was thinking of going 18 hour days for the flowering. anyone not familiar with 18 hr days - it works like this: 6 light / 12 dark hours. repeated... by doing 18 hr days i will shave 20 days off my flower period and not adversely affect the magical creatures. the only real reason i was going to stay with the more common/natural 24 hour period was to keep a stable 'night' period from noon-6pm every day for tempurate purposes... but since im going to get an AC, why not do 18s?

ive done some research, read alot of threads about it, and talked with growers who have used the 18 hr method. it works. the plants respond the same. something about the first 4 hrs of light creating about 85% of the energy that the plants can get (which is also why 6/18 works better for plants than straight 24s... they need the rest period to recoop and max their intake on the next light cycle.) anyways... after 6 hrs the plants only get about 4-8% (kinda guessing that % because i cant remember the exact number - but it was very low.) but yeah, anyway...

other important questions ive asked and still a bit unclear on - and just want you experienced growers givin me your thoughts. in veg - where do i want my temps (i kinda went by 75-85F) and humidity (i was trying to keep 50-60%) and same for flower... temp and rh?

thanks for all the help guys!

 

[MID TOWN]

not much preasure now but hook that 700gph pump and your gonna get leaks everywhere. the smaller pump will circulate the cold water plenty, there's actualy no difference in temperate between the res and the buckets in my system.

as for the AC. I'd get the widow unit, box in the back and hook up a fan to the to suck out the ac exhaust. That fan you posted for the water chiller definately wont work. I'd use at least a 150cfm fan.

If you cover the lids/net pots with sompething, your medium will stay much wetter.so less wilting.

I wouldn't suggest the 18hour method. You will not get the same results!

 

[kovenant]

Mid Town -> thnx, alot of info. im kind of unclear on some, so let me see if i can understand.

not much preasure now but hook that 700gph pump and your gonna get leaks everywhere. the smaller pump will circulate the cold water plenty, there's actualy no difference in temperate between the res and the buckets in my system.

when you say not much pressure now... are you telling me, not much pressure on me but.. or are you saying there isnt much pressure on my system now, but once i hook up the 700 there will be... or are you saying if i had the 700 hooked up as i do now (from the res, to the feed line) that it will make leaks everywhere? i think you mean the middle one - basically, the setup to the chiller needs the 700gph pump to make the water cooler, faster, and taxt the chiller less... but hooking it up directly to the feed would cause leaks everywhere, so the work around is one faster pump just from the controller to the chiller, and then the slower pump to circulate it through the system with less pressure. which makes sense and ill be re-hooking it up like that as soon as i can (my daughter leaves soon so trying to wait to do the work once shes gone, including having to do the venting and/or AC install.)

as for the AC. I'd get the widow unit, box in the back and hook up a fan to the to suck out the ac exhaust. That fan you posted for the water chiller definately wont work. I'd use at least a 150cfm fan.

im confused about 'box in the back and hook up a fan to suck out the exhaust." but think you might be saying... get the window unit, but dont mount it in a window - just hook up an exhaust fan and duct to pipe out the exhaust. correct? well, im also wondering if i did get the window unit and could actually mount it in the large window... would it work well with the AC blowing in directly over (and once they get taller... directly through) the plants?

the only window i could use is the one on the right side located just behind the right 600W lamp and just above the buckets. if that placement is fine, i may just try to work around getting it installed there. if it isnt, then i could just get the window unit and place it inside the back of the room and vent it as you said - out the window. as for the fan to exhaust the chiller (if i do that) im kind of confused again... lots of confusion today! lol. you said at least a 150cfm fan. so is a lower # better? for some reason i thought a higher cfm # is a higher rating. the one i listed is 250cfm.

If you cover the lids/net pots with sompething, your medium will stay much wetter.so less wilting.

so... cover the top of the lid, under the plants with something like tarp cut-outs or something and slide it under? or something heavier? i could cut out white tarp circles with a slit in them to slide under and around the plants - covering the lids/medium.

I wouldn't suggest the 18hour method. You will not get the same results!

you've done this on a grow before? and the results were sucked? i dont doubt your experience and advice, im merely asking because ive got positive feedback from a couple local growers and ive read threads (i think there is actually a good one here on ic) that have positive results from people that have actually done it.

i want to have a successful grow - if i shouldnt do 18 hrs, i wont.

thnx mate!

 

[kovenant]

btw. i ordered seeds from seedboutique.com a few days ago. i just recieved email that my payment was received and shipment is being processed.

i ordered:
1 x NRS - Ice $15.00
1 x NRS - Pure Power Plant $15.00
1 x NRS - White Rhino $15.00
1 x NRS - White Widow $15.00
1 x MAN-Kalichakra $24.79
1 x MAN-Mandala #1 $18.02

i have my trainwreck which im keeping a mom of, and even though i sold my hog mamma, i kept 6 clones - so may be keeping her but not sure... depends on how well she does. i wanted the variety and a few good strains to try. im excited about trying my hand with them on upcoming grows!

 

[MID TOWN]

Yea once you have the large pump hooked up the chiller and if you run the feed lines off that youll get leaks. 700 gph is way too much for the little 1/4" feed lines.

Box in the back of the AC(the part that would normaly stick out the window) and have a fan exhausting the heat to the attic or wherever. you dont want your AC blowing right on your plants so the window isn't the best option but you could rig sompething up to divert the flow of the ac.

I don't know about that little computer fan ACTUALY moving 230cubic feet per minute of air. I could be wrong but that sounds like total crap. I would go with a 4 inch vortex.

AS for the 18 hr method, it's kind of like using verticle gardens or an omega to save space and time. you might get some alright weed but nothing compared to what you could have done with a flat garden. you can try it if you want but in my opinion and almoast everyone elses they truley need that other 6 hours. If it worked that well everyone would be donig it. I mean who doesn't want to shave time off each cycle?

 

[Guest]

btw. i ordered seeds from seedboutique.com a few days ago. i just recieved email that my payment was received and shipment is being processed.

i ordered:
1 x NRS - Ice $15.00
1 x NRS - Pure Power Plant $15.00
1 x NRS - White Rhino $15.00
1 x NRS - White Widow $15.00
1 x MAN-Kalichakra $24.79
1 x MAN-Mandala #1 $18.02

i have my trainwreck which im keeping a mom of, and even though i sold my hog mamma, i kept 6 clones - so may be keeping her but not sure... depends on how well she does. i wanted the variety and a few good strains to try. im excited about trying my hand with them on upcoming grows!

man kick ass order... are those ur next flavors to try?????

**GL**

 

[Guest]

Looks like you almost got everything tuned in, i'm guna try to hook up a blower to my chiller tonight i'll let you know how it goes. Gl Slips