1st Grow - Kovenant's story

[plumpm0nkey]

well i got 10 5 inch clones, how do you go about spiraling them?
Anyoen use this product yet? http://genhydro.com/genhydro_US/floranova.html

 

[MID TOWN]

Just hold on to the stuff you already got, make it a fresh air room for this crop and then upgrade the room next time.

 

[kovenant]

sorry guys. soon the 'lab' (as it is being lovingly referred to by my room mates) will be finished and i will not have to spend my every waking moment working in it... or so i think. lol

got alot done last night. ran the RO. finished up the venting (all changed after boxing in the grow area and moving the lamps.) now the veg and flower area are all vented together.

today after work i will be finishing the DWC bucket system... not much left, just running the lines. still waiting on the 'replacement' water chiller - upgraded to the 1/4hp, as well as the air diffusers that may or may not be in today locally... ordered them up through my local guy for same as i could find online.

ill have pics soon, just wanted to update for those of you watching the show! have a kickass friday and get ready for some pics this weekend

Mid Town --> btw, i said f*** it and ordered a CO2 ppm monitor so i will be using it with the controller i have and make sure i get some CO2 down for the ladies. i just couldnt pass up a 40-70% increase in my yield

all in all, with the chiller coming (at the earliest) around wednesday of next week, as well as the CO2 ppm monitor... i hope to transplant around that time. lots more photos will obviously be available for your viewing pleasure at that time too. i will try to get some up before then too though! see you soon

--edit--

the CO2 monitor and controllers im using are the following. anyone have experience with them and/or comments? CAP was called by the dealer i ordered from and was told they will work fine together.

CAP AIR-3 & PPM-3

 

[mindRubber]

Damn man! That is one hell of a nice room you have there!

 

[MID TOWN]

Those work good but if you havn't already bought those I'd check out the SENTINEL ctc-1, it's only $500 and it has everything in one so it would save you a bit of money.

What kind of airstones/pumps are you using? you'll get much better results if you use high preasure air pumps and quality ceramic airstones or the alita air tubing.

 

[kovenant]

MindRubber --> thanks man!

Mid Town --> have the Air-3 already, and they shipped the PPM-3 yesterday. /shrug

i have the Eco pumps from my local hydro store, and actually ordered air diffusers (like blazeoneup suggested) opposed to air stones

-edit-

i plan on running an air diffuser in each bucket as well as 2 in the control bucket

 

[kovenant]

Day 20 of Veg.

here we are, a day short of 3 weeks vegging. wow - time keeps slippin, slippin... into the future lol.

alot done last night. the DWC system is nearly complete. just need a few Tee's and Elbows for the feed line and its done. made a platform for the DWC res (its a gravity system.) cleaned up! the room was just a mess from supplies, tools, cuttings from tubes and plastic... its looking amazing. ill have some pics as soon as its all done! still tightening up any potential light-leak issues and any last-detail to the ventilation. but i can almost sit back, sigh, and take a breather

my HOG clones are ready to transplant to veg already. they could probably go another week in the grow dome - but they are all showing quite a few roots and look quite lovely. the romulan is bushy and sprouting up nicely. too bad i just have the one, id love to see how she smokes at the end of this first harvest, but she'll give some good clones for the 3rd go around. the rest of the ladies (trainwreck) are looking marvellous. the spiral LST'ing has them all looking like - well - twisting, writhing, bushy ladies. you can see the legs on the mamma (the 1 TW that has no training) but the rest of them are an entanglement of leaves. i have not been pruning any leaves - even the mass of sun leaves that are shooting out in every direction along the spiral. not sure i should... been wanting to just let them thrive and they certainly seem to be doing so. lush deeper green on the older vegitation and sun leaves, with a young spring-green on the newest shoots and veg.

im actually glad that my veg has gone longer than i planned. the LST'ing nearly has the main stalk circled (a full circle from the original bend, around the rockwool cube, back to the initial bend... its actually about 3/4 circle on each plant - but with all the growth it seems almost full.) cant wait to see how this 'head training' works for harvest. most likely i will be vegging at least this long for future runs. if i put the HOGS into veg next week... they will nearly have 2 months in veg! wonder if i should go that long, AND if my veg room/table can support it. thinking of a HUGE harvest from that, if so.

alright. now im just rambling. stay tuned guys. there should be some excitement around the corner!

ooh one more thing. after getting the flower room nearly complete and cleaned up. i can see the HUGE benefit for moving my lights and 'boxing' in the flower area. for 1 thing, putting my ladies into the actual veg room has them surrounded by reflective walls and i have noticed a huge difference in growth (even though now they are under 400W instead of 600W!) also, i see where my upgrade will happen... with a 'copy' of the current setup (two 600W lamps over 12 more buckets) will fit nicely into the flower room in a few months. im super stoked and cant thank you guys enough for your help along the way!

here's a question:

so ive hearing all kinds of reports from local growers, as well as the online community, about how much bud i should be expecting from my grow. and frankly, i have no idea what to expect. i dont want to hope for more than i actually get, to be quite sure, but i do hope to at least make what ive put into the room + what rent would be for the room had i re-leased it to a new room mate. based on all ive heard, im shooting for 1-2 lbs per this first grow. 12 plants. how realistic is that?

 

[RamCTD1027]

im shooting for 1-2 lbs per this first grow. 12 plants. how realistic is that?

When you say 1-2lbs per, do you mean 1-2lbs per 600w lamp or 1-2lbs per plant? If you mean 1-2lbs per 600w lamp, i would say you are right on target. If you mean 1-2lbs per plant, well then, i would hate to burst your bubble but that doesnt seem realistic to me. If i remember correctly, you are flowering with 2-600w lamps. A good guideline for expected yield is the grams per watt figure. A good grow will be right around 1 gm/wt and a GREAT grow will be over that. If you are flowering with 1200 watts and the grow runs smoothly, you can hope for 1200 grams (dry)= 2.7lbs. You are vegging for a long period of time in hopes to grow bushes which do yield great; however, with only 2-600w lamps you are limited. 600w lamps are great for an even canopy style grow but they dont penetrate the canopy very deep. if you want to stick with bushes, i would suggest you throw some more lamps at the 12 buckets. I currently grow with 600w lamps so this is all from my personal experience. I could be way off here however. Around one lb per 600w lamp is a good goal, but i do know people who are getting around 2lbs per 600w lamp. All depends on your growing ability.

 

[kovenant]

RamCTD1027 --> thnx for the great info mate. yeah, i guess i was a little unclear. i actually meant 1-2 lbs for the entire grow. if i ended up with 2-4 lbs id be amazed and probably fall over on my head and break something important

1g per 1w sounds great. if i can get that in my setup i will be stoked. ive heard alot of people getting .5g per watt but those were probably more like stealth closet or cabinet grows using floros and small compact floros.

i know i can unload this TW at the very minimum for $4k per lb to a local club. in that case, 1 lb will pay for the cost of building the room and all the equipment. and even a 1/2 lb will pay for the rent i would of been receiving from a room mate (living here is expensive... rooms rent for $800/month!)

so at least i know, as long as nothing goes horribly wrong, that it should be 'worth' it. after all, this is ofcourse a fun project for me, but it also has to make dollars, or it dont make sense

 

[RamCTD1027]

in that case, 1-2lbs per grow is a good estimate. Getting 1 gm/wt means you have the grow completely dialed in. Speaking for myself, it definitely takes some time (i.e. some grows) to get it down.

 

[kovenant]

RamCTD1027 -> good to hear. then i know the goals im shooting for are reachable. especially with the 1g/watt rule of thumb, which would put me at 2.6 lb... i know i dont/wont have everything dialed in for a few grows.

so. quick update on the whats goin down. almost ready to transplant to flower. the only thing holding me up is the water chiller. i sent the 1/10hp back and requested the 1/4hp. they had them in stock and i expected them early/mid this week. they never sent it. yes, i was livid. they couldnt tell me if they could 'upgrade' shipping to 2nd day for free due to their mistake (which they admitted it was) so i was even more turned off by dealing with them (although their customer service helped me last week with some decisions...) anyway, i called my local hydro and asked how much and how soon for a 1/4hp chiller. thursday $450 out the door... um... same price i was paying for online and its here in 2 days. so - thursday after work ill be picking it up. tubing it into my line, and get water pumping through the system to see how she works and make sure she's leak proof. my res is filled to the brim with RO water just waiting.

i still have yet to run the CO2, but the ppm monitor just arrived yesterday and i didnt have time to set it up. have the tubes.. just laking some stakes or poles to circle it around the buckets... going to stop by the family home improvement center and see if they have 'training' stakes in their garden area. then ill circle the tubing around the bucket flower area and probably continue the line over to the veg room so both can benefit from the CO2. (is that a good plan? is CO2 more important in one stage or another - meaing better for flower or better in veg? any thoughts please.)

oh... and great news (not really.) one of my 600W ballast by lumitek went out - or at least, it isnt working and im unsure why. i placed a new bulb in it and that didnt help. its the 'blue' lumiteks version (which is one or two releases behind the current.) anyone know what i should do to check/fix this thing? i couldnt find a fuse housing anywhere on the ballast. im really bummed out as ill have to purchase another one if i want to remain on schedule and transplant tomorrow once i get the water chiller.

so. my ladies have been wanting water every day now. the rockwool is dry about 20 hrs after watering. i've still been watering about 2 1/2 minutes (which floods the tray 1/2 up the side of the rockwool cubes) however i finally changed out my nute solution... and instead of adding fresh veg nutes i have run 3 days of 5.7pH'ed RO water (no nutes). ive heard varying reports and opinions about this... but because i was so close to transplant i did not want to add a new batch of nutes. is that bad? the ladies actually seem to have sprung into a growth spurt since doing it - so my guess is no... seems fine (even 'good').

i took some camera-phone pics just as an update on what the ladies are up to. soon i will use my professional grade camera (once the flower room is completely done, and cleaned) and give you something DIFFERENT to look at finally!

here they are in veg, under the 400W and further LST (keeping them sprialled and low - expect for the Romulan mother on the far back right, and the TW mother on the far left)


heres a closer shot of the trainwrecks in the spiral LST'ing


and i set TW mom back a bit for a solo shot. bit blurry, sorry

 

[MID TOWN]

there's no need to run tubing all over the place for the co2 just put the end of your tube right behind a fan that blows across the grow area. it'll all even out. co2 is much more valuable in flower but it definately helps quit a bit in veg also. I personaly wouldn't use co2 in your separate veg room but use it while their veging in the buckets.

 

[kovenant]

Mid Town --> the problem is, i do not veg in my buckets. i veg in the veg room in a ebb & flow tray... soon as they get transfered to buckets its in the flower room and they will go on the 12/12 cycle. so just never use it in veg? the ppm monitor is in the flower room, and the veg room is much smaller (closet opposed to a full bedroom) and i suppose the ppm levels in the closet would be alot higher... i see two alternatives.

1) only run it in the flower room. the 'intake' for the exhaust is in the veg room and would pull 'some' CO2 from the flower room when the fans kick in (of course the CO2 goes off at that point, but the flow isnt super quick to where it would empty the rooms of CO2.)

2) run tubing in a circle (or even cresant shape) around the buckets in flower and continue it through the tarp wall into the closet/veg room. set the ppm monitor to about 1000 and see how it goes (setting it at 1000 because the veg room will probably fill up with CO2 alot quicker than the monitor will pick up in the flowering room.)

let me know what you all think. im guessing #1. especially since the actual veg i will be running in the future is 1-3 weeks (with 3 being longer than i really intend to.) the mothers are in there as well, but i dont need fast growth from them, just steady enough to get 9 or so clones every month, month and a half.

 

[MID TOWN]

well your gonna want your lights to be air cooled ALL THE TIME which means that fan should always be on. so if it's set up where it's gonna be sucking out the co2 your gona want to put it on it's own circuit. set up your ducting so that your fan is sucking fresh air from the veg room and nothing from the flower room. don't use the co2 in the veg room, just a waste.

If your not going to veg in the buckets at all then there's no point in using them. you wont even get any roots down in the water and would be better off using an ebb n flow table. if you just veg in a little rockwool block and put it in the system and automaticaly flower it you'll be verry disapointed with the results. You wont fill out your canopy at all and youll have no root mass to support the plants. try a comparison. veg a clone in the buckets for 3 weeks and a clone in those LITTLE blocks. the ones in the buckets will have quadruple the root mass and growth.

 

[kovenant]

Mid Town ->

alright, we need to hash some things out, and get me where i need to be. you've seen the setup of my room...

1 open window that vents into the flower room (and a small 3" portion on the other side of the tarp wall vents to the veg side). there are 2 air-ducts that just vent air from the flower to veg side, so that outside air goes in this circuit. Window->Flower Room->Veg Room->into 400W lamp->exhausted back through the two 600W Flower Room lamps->into attic

my lamps do not need to be aircooled 24/7. they are being controlled by the CAP Air-3 controller which turns them on when temps reach about 85F or 50% RH. i live off the ocean in so cal - normal temps here are 68-74F... with the lamps its in the high 70s to mid 80s. my 6 hours night cycle is noon to 6pm (hottest part of the day).

i have stated from the beginning i was building blaze's recirculating DWC bucket system and have shown my veg in the ebb & flow tray. the bottom of my rockwool cubes are full of interweaving roots. are you telling me that if i drop my rockwool into the bottom of my netted pots with some hydroton to add stability - and raise the water level to the bottom of the pots for 3-7 days, slowly lowering it, that my roots will not drop down and grow into the buckets during flower?

if that is the case then we need to figure out something quick. i dont have room to veg in buckets. im not going to veg in the flower room because i need to have a continuous crop circulating (in order to financially make this work.) lets deal with these things first and then if your answer is "no" i cant take them from veg in the tray to the buckets then we'll talk that one out.

thanks mate!

 

[MID TOWN]

Well like BLAZE said you could go ahead and get your net pots all set up with hydrotron and veg like that in your tray so that your roots are ready to pop down in tha water as soon as you put them in the system but vegging in the system realy is much better. and yes roots do almoast all of their growing in veg.

a pic of my roots after 3 weeks veg in a dwc system for comparison.

and the plants



You could get great results the way you have it by just not using co2. you may not have temp issues with the windows open but your gonna be running through a co2 bottle every few days the way you have things set up.

If your usin co2 you'll want to completely seal your flower room. seal up all the windows, the cracks in your hoods and anything else it all makes a big difference. for ventilation run your ducting like this. open window in veg room>hole in veg room wall>ducting>lights>attic.so the fan is not sucking out any air from the flower room just the veg room.

Hope this helps. ask more Q's if you got any

 

[kovenant]

thanks midtown. everything you just said makes crystal clear sense. im bummed my roots dont look like that! its been just over three weeks and of course, my roots are all in rockwool... i didnt realize that most of root growth is done in veg. seems that i will have to pre-veg in the tray, as blaze suggested... then at least do a week or two vegging in the buckets (by looking at your example i can only guess that 1 week veg in a bucket would even be about 3 or 4 times more growth than what i have now in rockwool.)

the CO2...

wish i had known before. i really dont want to seal the window... its where my fresh air is from. cant cut a vent hole to just the veg room... unless i did it from the attic (where it's hot - which means then running duct to pull air from the outside or making a roof vent... and this isnt my house, i've done alot of nailing and minimal cutting already.) another con, i already bought the regulator, have the CO2 canister, and the ppm controller/monitor. so i want to use them. didnt realize (and i dont know why i didnt see it sooner) that it would totally go out the window... guess i thought with the fan off and only 1 window open (i did shut that 2nd and seal it off from the room) that there wouldnt be much airflow... and just assumed most CO2 would stay inside.

dont know what to do about that


as for the grow... i guess - under the circumstances - im going to transplant the rockwool over to the buckets, sitting on hydroton (keep the rockwool a few inches from the bottom of the netpots so the bubbling water doesnt keep the rockwool soaked.) then, let the water recirculate through the system just at the base of the rockwool and manual top-feed (lightly) for as long as it takes to get the roots to drop down into the hydroton (guessing/hoping 4-7 days.) once the roots come through the netpot i can drop the water to 1-2" below the netpot bottoms.

sound like the best solution?

 

[kovenant]

i apologize for going this long without an update. i actually posted to this thread - and another - the other night and just realized neither actually posted.

quick update. still not in the DWC buckets. one of the local hydro shops i visit promised me one by thursday. said that company had it on backorder and then ordered me a different brand (that cost more) but would honor the price of the first - which was cool - and it would be here friday. well... yeah, you guessed it. supposed to be here monday. if its not, ill be super pissed at the run around.

that aside. the ladies are looking lovely. drinking up water fast. i stopped the spiralling LST as most plants have 3-4 shoots coming off the spiral stem already.

for the past several days (9th-13th) i watered with 5.7pH'ed RO water to flush the system of nitrogen - and just to give a good flush - before transfering. keep in mind i originally was going to transplant them on the 12th... which keeps getting pushed. i thought longer than 4 days with no nutes might produce bad results so last night i mixed up a new nute solution based off strain-specific advice i had received on another thread here at icmag. 750ppm @ 5.6pH - ran the water for 3 minutes (about half way up the rockwool cube like ive been doing) and mixed a foiler spray at 400ppm / 6.3pH. the foiler spray (and slightly lower pH of the res water) was suggested to help kick the 'purple' from the trainwreck stems. i gave a moderate spray just after watering at 11pm last night. this morning at 4:30am the ladies looked healthy - didnt notice much change, but was only a few hours later... and ive been at work since.

i did snap a few pics though, i thought some of you would enjoy seeing the progress.

i have found, in the interim, that i will be vegging differently on my next grow. when using the DWC bucket system i built - i did not realize i need to veg differently for much better results. being my first grow, and new to hydro in general, i did not know that most of the root growth occures during veg - and that vegging in the buckets is about 643% better than in the rockwool in a tray, as i have been. so that will change. looking at pictures of 3 week old plants in the buckets.... MASS root systems that already fill up 5 gallons... is quite a bit different than my little cubes that wont allow the roots to continue growing in the tray. but i know how ill do it next time... transplant the clones to 4" or 6" netpots with hydroton - still in the tray - for 'pre vegging' and then another week or two in the buckets vegging before i switch to 12/12

hope i havent lost all of you who've been interested and keeping an eye on my grow. im sad for all the postponements as well... trust me, its frustrating me - but im still keeping my head up and am set on "having fun"!

now on to the pics. its just a few, and only cell phone pics from this morning @ 4:30am... but ive spotted pre-flowering and love the two white hairs i see popping up all over

Day 24 of veg - full shot


closer view of the canopy


showing sex - several macros








those of you still viewing... let me know you're here. let me know youre thoughts. compare where my girls are at 3 1/2 weeks to where they should be. advice? remember, im new and im wanting to do the best i can and learn from my mistakes have a great weekend. monday should be a good show... im not even going to think otherwise!

 

[RamCTD1027]

Kovenant-

I veg my plants the same way you plan to veg you plants the next grow. I put my rooted clones in 6" net pots in hydroton and pre-veg them in an ebb and flow table until the roots really start to grow. Once they develop, I pull the netpots out and drop them right into the recric DWC set up. You will be MUCH happier with the results when done this way as opposed to vegging in rockwool. The reason I do it this way is that i do not have enough room for a seperate recirc DWC system to veg my plants in. Once i pull one harvest and clean the system, i IMMEDIATELY like to start another grow so this was the only way possible for me with the room i have.

The advice that midtown has given you is spot on. You definitely need to veg the plants in the DWC system for some time for the roots to develop.


Good luck and keep up the good work.

RamCTD

 

[pontiac]

This grow is kick-ass! :jawdrop: I'm gonna read through this whole thread.