150w HPS Club and Resource Guide......

[Cozy Amnesia]

Hey everybody, I just ordered a S&P TD-125 for less than $100 shipped and I'll let everybody know if it's a good fit with the 150watters. BTW, I got it from www.hvacquick.com

If I only use one Vapor Tight 150 then will it still be necessary for me to lower the operating current?

uuuuhhhh....what are you talking about?

There is no need to alter the current supplied by the ballast going the bulb. By swapping transformers, decreasing the amps would decrease the light intensity and increasing the amps would exceed what the bulb can handle.

 

[Quazi]

I think he's referring to the fact that the draw is over 150W for the 150W HPS vapor tights. In fact, it's closer to around 350W.

Although the extra energy isn't necessarily used, it still has to be considered when hooking a few units up to a circuit so you don't overload the circuit.

Barnt left a great explanation in my cabinet thread about this:

Yes the light pulls more current than a 150W light because it is missing a capacitor to keep the voltage and current in phase. Essentially, more current goes through the ballast, however about half of it is returned back into the wall. You don't get billed for this as its not current that you have used. If this is done on a large scale though (multiple 150w) then the added current will become a problem faster. With a 15amp circuit you could only have a few 150w lights without caps because of the extra current they draw. If you needed 5+ lights on one breaker you would have to fix the phase issue (as larger ballasts do). Also, if the phase isn't corrected and you are running large things out of phase and returning power to the grid, the electric company might get pissed.

Nice find on the OB1 Bule!

-Q

 

[Bulénath]

Quote: Barnt:
"Also, if the phase isn't corrected and you are running large things out of phase and returning power to the grid, the electric company might get pissed."



So how does power consumption get registered, along with the power spikes that get people caught?

I am under the impression from what you wrote,
that Power meters register the power being drawn into the house hold, and also measuring the power returning to the grid, then deducting the two to get the actual power consumption of the house hold?

 

[Bulénath]

Hey everybody, I just ordered a S&P TD-125 for less than $100 shipped and I'll let everybody know if it's a good fit with the 150watters. BTW, I got it from www.hvacquick.com



uuuuhhhh....what are you talking about?

There is no need to alter the current supplied by the ballast going the bulb. By swapping transformers, decreasing the amps would decrease the light intensity and increasing the amps would exceed what the bulb can handle.

If you order two of the S&P's from them, the shipping is almost cut in half per fan, to Hawai'i at least....OahuGrown.
Can't wait to hear your review Cozy.

 

[aeburnside]

that Power meters register the power being drawn into the house hold, and also measuring the power returning to the grid, then deducting the two to get the actual power consumption of the house hold?

That seems to be very close to the truth. From what I've read, if you can generate enough electricity through other means (wind, solar, etc) and feed it back into the grid, you can make a standard meter run backwards, essentially crediting your account for the amount of juice you give back to them. So, if you use 10kWh but also generate and give back 4 kWh using the solar panels on top of your house, you'll pay for 6kWh instead of 10kWh.

Check out this wikipedia link about "net metering" ("net" meaning the difference between consumption and production). I don't know anything about power spikes, sorry.

 

[Bulénath]

I have heard of that concept before; Selling power back to the electric company.
But only until I read your post and the Wikipedia article did I realize the MASSIVE potential of this!

Grower learns ropes using micro-stealth technology.
Grower builds confidence and increases income by $10K a month.
Grower invests this money, four years later, into a large house in the middle of nowhere with a roof made of solor pannels.
Grower safely connects twenty 600W ballasts and fourty 600W bulbs.
Grower retires with a Maharaja/Shogun style.
The end.




Build that empire

 

[Pipedream]

So here's the story..........

The subject of capacitors comes up almost every few months, and each time we get the same info. But then, why wouldn't we? The laws of electricity haven't changed since the beginning of time. So being a retired Electrical Engineer I just spent 45 minutes writing up a 5 paragraph explaination of why we needn't be concerned about using capacitors in our single or double 150 setups. But then, I started to think to myself, "hell they only cost a few bucks, even if they only help to eliminate the paranoia that runs rampant in our hobby, why shouldn't they put them in?" So I deleted my epic.

So here's my new position on caps....... If it makes you feel better to put one in, do so. If you're not totally comfortable working with electrical circuits, STOP and find a knowledgable helper. If you're concerned about the $4 cost to buy one, you're in the wrong hobby. And lastly, hunderds of thousands of very inexpensive HID fixtures are sold every year and most do not have caps. They hang on or in every garage, house, barn, trailer, and basement ceilings in multiples, and nobody is breaking down the doors to see what's going on.

OK, I'm done now. JMHO One Love, PD

 

[aeburnside]

hey pipedream can you link us to a decent online retailer or source for the appropriate capacitor to buy? as an electrical engineer, you'd be the best one to ask i think

 

[catman]

As a former aspiring electrical engineer student I can vouch for pipedream.

If your into DIY and are bored, give it a shot..
If your not, spend the extra $ with a real ballast

BUT You really don't need one. Worry about something else

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Here's one...there are others on the web.
http://www.hidquickfix.com/cafor150wa.html


150w HPS uses 14microfarad/280volt
Wire into the two AC power in leads. No polarity issue.

 

[Pipedream]

Shoot for 12 to 20 uf (microfarads). As far as the voltage rating goes 200 or higher is fine. The voltage rating is the point at which the internal dielectric might be compromised, not the operating voltage of the circuit, so its OK to go higher.

Here's a guy selling 14uf's for 6 bucks on eBay....http://cgi.ebay.com/CBB60-Washing-M...1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247.

If your handy, you can find them in any old airconditioner, refridgerator, freezer, or washing machine. Or at any local appliance repair parts store.

A word of caution here....electrical circuits are not toys and need to be respected. And, a charged capacitor can have one hell of a bite even once its been removed from a circuit. Their whole reason for being is to hold a charge of electricity and discharge it very fast and completely. Over the years I've seen many a tool melted and fingers fried from not being careful with them.

Good Luck, PD

 

[Bulénath]

So here's the story..........

The subject of capacitors comes up almost every few months, and each time we get the same info. But then, why wouldn't we? The laws of electricity haven't changed since the beginning of time. So being a retired Electrical Engineer I just spent 45 minutes writing up a 5 paragraph explaination of why we needn't be concerned about using capacitors in our single or double 150 setups. But then, I started to think to myself, "hell they only cost a few bucks, even if they only help to eliminate the paranoia that runs rampant in our hobby, why shouldn't they put them in?" So I deleted my epic.

So here's my new position on caps....... If it makes you feel better to put one in, do so. If you're not totally comfortable working with electrical circuits, STOP and find a knowledgable helper. If you're concerned about the $4 cost to buy one, you're in the wrong hobby. And lastly, hunderds of thousands of very inexpensive HID fixtures are sold every year and most do not have caps. They hang on or in every garage, house, barn, trailer, and basement ceilings in multiples, and nobody is breaking down the doors to see what's going on.

OK, I'm done now. JMHO One Love, PD

Shoot for 12 to 20 uf (microfarads). As far as the voltage rating goes 200 or higher is fine. The voltage rating is the point at which the internal dielectric might be compromised, not the operating voltage of the circuit, so its OK to go higher.

Here's a guy selling 14uf's for 6 bucks on eBay....http://cgi.ebay.com/CBB60-Washing-M...1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247.

If your handy, you can find them in any old airconditioner, refridgerator, freezer, or washing machine. Or at any local appliance repair parts store.

A word of caution here....electrical circuits are not toys and need to be respected. And, a charged capacitor can have one hell of a bite even once its been removed from a circuit. Their whole reason for being is to hold a charge of electricity and discharge it very fast and completely. Over the years I've seen many a tool melted and fingers fried from not being careful with them.

Good Luck, PD

Pipedream, you are just a wealth of information!

 

[aeburnside]

thanks for the info and links!

 

[OahuGrown]

Bluenath
Since where i live causes shipping to be so freakin expensive do you think i could just use like 5-6 42 watt cfls?

 

[growDaddy]

I know people that use Home Depot 42w CFLs, you use what you got!

check out this grow
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=69713

 

[Bulénath]

Bluenath
Since where i live causes shipping to be so freakin expensive do you think i could just use like 5-6 42 watt cfls?

Aloha kakahiaha my Hawaiian brethren.
Howz da rain today? Four inches per HOUR! Fucking nutz...

About CFL's, like I said before I have no experience with CFL's higher than 19 watts each (75w equivlent), but I know much about them, and use them to Veg.

As for flowering, you know the problem is with CFL's is that they lack penetration. Six 42watters equalls roughly 250watts! And I bet you will encounter penetration problems, which are actually counterable with the right knowledge and experience: By creating a perfectly flat canopy through proper training!
But that does take a little experience, which is usually better off being built through relying soley on the musscle power of the 150HPS at first, which allows your plants develop with little neccessary restriction and attention which you WILL need to use, to properly grow an Ideal Crop with the CFL's for your first grow.

So, if you choose to use CFL's I highly suggest you scrogg becasue of that issue with penetration, and do your best to properly train your plants.

But 250 watts of CFL may actually be harder to cool than a single 150HPS.
Not only are the lights more spread out and therefor harder to cool individually, but the heat generated by 250 watts of CFL may be greater than a single 150HPS, which can easily be applied within a cool tube or A/C-reflector and therefor cooled much easier.

Have you checked out MDHydro.com ?
Brian is the owner and will ship via USPS priority if you ask! Hell he might even be willing to do parcel post. And brian is the one who almost always answers the phone, so you speak directly to the owner most of the time.

They are offering the full 150HPS package, plug-and-play style, for like $110 with glass shield and all that stuff.

But also check out Ebay!! And beofre you buy any particular one, run it back by us first, so we can tell you if it most likely is shitty or good.

 

[Bulénath]

OahuGrown,
Here you go Braddah...

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-150-watt-HP...1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50#ShippingPayment

$110 after shipping UPS to Oahu.
I bought my Floralux Mini from HTGSupply and found them to have decent service through my one and only purchase. They are a very Legit company.

Anyway, that HPS looks awsome! Remote ballast, plug and play style, and it looks extremely well built, and the reflector is BAD ASS!!!!
That is probably the best looking one I ever seen!
Three year warranty on the ballast, and I can not believe the next thing they said: A year warranty on the bulb! That is just ridiculously unheard of.

However, I still would like to hear the experienced members opinions aswell.

But I'd rather have this reflector they offer set up like a bat wing:

That is becasue you can mount a fan infront of the open end, unlike the other design which can't have air blowing directly on the bulb becasue that one is "four sided".


It IS the SAME EXACT reflector! I re-read this:



"Versatile: It's like two reflectors in one! You can choose to use the END PANELS or as an open-ended Fully Adjustable "Batwing" style reflector. Use the End Panels to create a 4 sided reflector to maximize light efficiency and get the highest output possible. Or use it as a Fully Adjustable Reflector to customize the light coverage you need for your garden! Simply bend the refector outwards for a wider light spread or bend inwards for a more intense, direct beam of light coverage. YOUR CHOICE!!"

 

[Cozy Amnesia]

Quote: Barnt:
"Also, if the phase isn't corrected and you are running large things out of phase and returning power to the grid, the electric company might get pissed."

Hmmm...allow me me to speculate:

(I just leanred this in my physics lectures) Inducers jump the phase shift forward by half a cycle and capacitors drop the the phase behind by half a cycle. So does this mean that our ballasts, which are nothing but a big inducer unless a cap is added, is going to offset the phase shift and piss off our electric companies?

Pipedream, am I at all correct on this? I was an EE major until I switched to computer science.

 

[Bulénath]

Pipedream I second that question, for all this electrical talk is so confusing to me! Horticulture is a breeze, but electricty is like quantum mathamatics in my opinion!

Anyway, to help keep everyone on the same page and to elaborate on Cozy's concern, and my question about how electricity meters work, I dug this up.


http://www.seed.slb.com/qa2/FAQView.cfm?ID=1160

"Electricity

How does electricity meter work?

How does a domestic electricity meter work?

An electricity meter is designed to measure the total electrical energy consumed in a house, usually in kilowatt-hour (kWh). It computes the integral over time of the electrical power (in Watts) consumed on the power network delivered to the house. This electrical power is measured by performing the product of the line current (in Amps) and the line voltage (in Volts).

Electricity meters typically consist of two parts:
- a transducer to convert the power into a mechanical or electrical signal, and
- a counter to integrate and display the value of the total energy that has passed through the meter.

The simplest way to measure the line current and voltage for single phase electronic meters is:
- line current: amplifying the voltage drop induced by this current traveling through a low-value (below 1 Ohm) shunt resistor in series with the load (all the appliances used in the home).
- line voltage: amplifying the voltage in the mid-point of a resistive divider located between the phase voltage and neutral. Analog multipliers and integrators were used to compute kWh. In recent meters, the two values are usually digitized and the product and integral are performed in a micro-controller.

In multi-phase meters (many homes have 2 or 3 phases of electricity supply, providing more power), voltage and current measurements have to be electrically isolated for each phase and transformers are used instead of shunts for current sensing.

Recent single phase meters use Hall-effect sensors. The Hall effect is a voltage between opposite sides of a thin sheet of material created by a magnetic field applied perpendicular to the thin sheet and the electric current flowing through the sheet. The output voltage, which is proportional to line power, is amplified, digitized and integrated over time to compute chargeable kWh."



---SO, um yeah. I think I am going to go draw with my crayons now...

 

[green_grow]

i am a bit too stoned to be reading about line voltage and The Hall effect, but that is one damn fine looking 150 hps package ! if i were looking for a rig to get started with, that would be it.