Nice munkie! Can't wait to try my fem'd The Church.
Best of luck Creeptic!
Best of luck Creeptic!
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Mad HattersWrld
Member
munkie said:The ruler in the pot is 18"
Nice
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Haggis123
Member
Hal said:
Hi Hal, not really had much time on my hands recently....been busy with work.
Thanks for the comp's and linking my little girl...
Yeah I got a few more little girls on the go, sadly not 12/12 from seed though.
Got 6 Dutch Passion Orange Bud and another Nirvana AK48, currently on day 6 of week 4 so still a few weeks to go. They are growing SOG style.
Anyway the thread seems real busy and a lot of other peeps are going down the 12/12 from seed path. Good on ya Hal for spreading the good word of the 12/12'ers.
How's your grows going ?? Anything on the go at the mo ??
Munkie, real nice looking plants there bro'. Keep up the good work...
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G
Guest
Hal & atmosphere - First thanks for the advice so far. To answer your questions
They are form Paradise Seeds, crossed Super Skunk with a male (F1 hybrid) of 60% Sativa and 40% Indica origin.
The pots they are in are 10" (and 1.5 gal.). They are 26" tall. And for the potting mix it's 1/2 Miracle Grow and 1/2 Jiffy Potting Mix. They are in a grow box thats 20" x 14" (a little less than 2 sq. ft.). They have been in 12/12 for 25 days. I read Haggis123 post about adding "allow around 20 days or so of 12/12 then start my 8 week countdown from then" and was wondering if that is why they look like they are only into a week of flowering.
Also I was wondering if I didn't cut the whole branch, if just cutting the buds on the nodes and leaving the top.
Thanks in advance.
They are form Paradise Seeds, crossed Super Skunk with a male (F1 hybrid) of 60% Sativa and 40% Indica origin.
The pots they are in are 10" (and 1.5 gal.). They are 26" tall. And for the potting mix it's 1/2 Miracle Grow and 1/2 Jiffy Potting Mix. They are in a grow box thats 20" x 14" (a little less than 2 sq. ft.). They have been in 12/12 for 25 days. I read Haggis123 post about adding "allow around 20 days or so of 12/12 then start my 8 week countdown from then" and was wondering if that is why they look like they are only into a week of flowering.
Also I was wondering if I didn't cut the whole branch, if just cutting the buds on the nodes and leaving the top.
Thanks in advance.
H
Hal
Hey Heero...
Regarding the trimming...atmosphere is the one to take advice from above all others, and he suggested not trimming ANY leaves, and that makes sense. So I would just trim off the little budlets that aren't going to amount to anything anyway, and leave the branches and little leaves.
The part about the time and such...what you want to do is note when the plants reveal their sex...this is different for every strain, and even within the same strain you'll find individual plants revealing their sex at slightly different times. Once the plant reveals its sex, from that point you would figure in the flowering time that is listed for your particular strain. Not all strains take 8 weeks to complete their flower phnase...some indicas take less, and some sativas take more. You'll need to find information about that from the breeder who made the seeds.
Even when you find that information, you will need to fine tune the timing by observing the trichome appearance (get yourself one of those Radioshack scopes for $10, you'll need it!) toward the end of the flower phase, because again, each plant will vary a tad because of its individual genetic makeup. And also, some growers believe that the recommended flower time listed by the breeders is on the short side, because most growers don't feel like waiting around for very long to harvest their crop, and the breeders think advertising a slightly shorter flower time will result in greater sales.
Regarding the trimming...atmosphere is the one to take advice from above all others, and he suggested not trimming ANY leaves, and that makes sense. So I would just trim off the little budlets that aren't going to amount to anything anyway, and leave the branches and little leaves.
The part about the time and such...what you want to do is note when the plants reveal their sex...this is different for every strain, and even within the same strain you'll find individual plants revealing their sex at slightly different times. Once the plant reveals its sex, from that point you would figure in the flowering time that is listed for your particular strain. Not all strains take 8 weeks to complete their flower phnase...some indicas take less, and some sativas take more. You'll need to find information about that from the breeder who made the seeds.
Even when you find that information, you will need to fine tune the timing by observing the trichome appearance (get yourself one of those Radioshack scopes for $10, you'll need it!) toward the end of the flower phase, because again, each plant will vary a tad because of its individual genetic makeup. And also, some growers believe that the recommended flower time listed by the breeders is on the short side, because most growers don't feel like waiting around for very long to harvest their crop, and the breeders think advertising a slightly shorter flower time will result in greater sales.
G
Guest
earthdog said:howdy rkrone ~ the sat/ind mixes all did well...to me that means dense sugary buds were harvested. sorry, no camera = no pics. i'm a bit paranoid about pics anyhoo.
thats awesome, and in regards to pics this site is one of the safer ones IMO.
H
Hal
Hey GMT...
I don't know why these newbs are saying this...it has NEVER been claimed in this thread.
There is no way that I, or anyone, can control folks interpretation of things said. Its like that game people can play where 10 people get in a line, and the first person comes up with a statement, and then this statement gets whispered in the ear of the next person, and so on down the line, and then the last person in the line says the statement out loud for all to hear, and the statement has been changed dramatically.
I tell ya what, if you tell me how I can prevent this misinformation from being spread by these folks, I will do it. I just don't have any idea. We have been nothing but truthfull in this forum.
Oh, the quickest I have seen anyone claim that a grow cycle could be completed in was like 70 days or so. I happen to know that one is true, because I did it myself (northern lights, 19 days to show sex and then 52 days of flowering...wait, thats 71).
You know, now that I think about it, if you tried this with some of the real quick flowering strains, it could be even quicker. I have heard of, but never tried, some strains that flower in about 45 days. If you were lucky and had these plants show their sex in 14 days (thats about as early as is possible I think), that would be a grow cycle of 60 days (but this is the FIRST time that I have mentioned anything in the 60's as a grow cycle).
So, tell me how I can keep folks from exagerating information and I will.
I don't know why these newbs are saying this...it has NEVER been claimed in this thread.
There is no way that I, or anyone, can control folks interpretation of things said. Its like that game people can play where 10 people get in a line, and the first person comes up with a statement, and then this statement gets whispered in the ear of the next person, and so on down the line, and then the last person in the line says the statement out loud for all to hear, and the statement has been changed dramatically.
I tell ya what, if you tell me how I can prevent this misinformation from being spread by these folks, I will do it. I just don't have any idea. We have been nothing but truthfull in this forum.
Oh, the quickest I have seen anyone claim that a grow cycle could be completed in was like 70 days or so. I happen to know that one is true, because I did it myself (northern lights, 19 days to show sex and then 52 days of flowering...wait, thats 71).
You know, now that I think about it, if you tried this with some of the real quick flowering strains, it could be even quicker. I have heard of, but never tried, some strains that flower in about 45 days. If you were lucky and had these plants show their sex in 14 days (thats about as early as is possible I think), that would be a grow cycle of 60 days (but this is the FIRST time that I have mentioned anything in the 60's as a grow cycle).
So, tell me how I can keep folks from exagerating information and I will.
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yeah Hal, I know it isn't easy controlling interpretation. I think your 19 days to veg and show sex is the quickest I've heard of, my personal quickest on record is 23 days. I find that 28 -35 is typical. Your last post should help though. Thanks. I read a few pages and couldn't find any misinfo, just wanted to make sure it was clear for all. At first I thought they were talking about clones and misunderstood needing the mothers first, but somehow they just misunderstood.
G
Guest
Hey Hal,
Thanks for the info. I'll do like you (and atmosphere) suggested and get back to the thread with my results. Thanks again.
Peace and good growing.
Thanks for the info. I'll do like you (and atmosphere) suggested and get back to the thread with my results. Thanks again.
Peace and good growing.
some more group shots for you all. I had to do some leg breaking on a couple of the ones i hadnt trained. i didnt think they would stretch as much as they did. they were over growing the box and with them being that tall before the colas started growing i could foresee problems. So i had to go cathy bates in misery on their asses. I got a little rough on one and the stem split lengthwise. What doesnt kill em only makes em stronger. gave her a splint and a tie down. the top turned towards the light again 8 hours later so i think she will be just all right.
i intend to set up a little grow area for wen the seeds pop, there'll b on 12/12 same as the rest and i'm guna use 2x200w blue spec envirolites, so my question is, how far from the lites shud the seeds b wen they pop.
hal, atmosphere, munkie, harris or anyone else.
this wud giv me the chance to bring the seeds on without having to stack them up on boxes to get them near the 2 x 600w hps i'm using, plus i'll b able to get the humidity up there for wen they pop.
hal, atmosphere, munkie, harris or anyone else.
this wud giv me the chance to bring the seeds on without having to stack them up on boxes to get them near the 2 x 600w hps i'm using, plus i'll b able to get the humidity up there for wen they pop.
Lofty said:
i understand this is the 12/12 from seed thread... but is their any reason you dont use the second area for moms/clones?
just curious, because i think the main benefits of 12/12 from seed seems to be quicker harvests and only needing one room... but i actually think you can get quicker harvests from clones... 7 days to root in a cloner, and then you can go right to 12/12 with the clone which is already mature which should give it a 2-3 week head start on anything from seed
again, not trying to stir any trouble or anti 12/12 sentiment, im just curious as to the reasoning
High'
Nice thread Hal
... i agree that this method works great. my grows are mostly with no veg, since i made a lot of seeds. I make it just a bit different with the lights. The start is usually with 15 or 16 hours on, & after 2 or 3 days of this regiment, the light is reduced to 11:30/12:30(off)
The plants seem to respond on the switch with faster growing ..not a big difference from constant 12/12 ..but it's noticeable. I'm not certain, maybe the switch is more stimulating the hormones. however i like to use a few days with more than 12 hours light, till the seedlings are stabilized. after that i give em 12:30 darkness. (more darkness makes the flowering a bit faster
a grow from seed is possible in good 2 months. Note; germination don't counts, since there is no need for lights. you can germ the seeds for a new round while the temporary buds are in the last week of finishing. important is the strain, indicas/afghanis are here the stars. Deep Chunk needs about 20daze for showing sex ..and less than 6 weeks till harvest (with mostly white trichomes ..but it's a heavy-inbred afghani (slow growing) & a low yielding line (also hard for sog cuz of the big leaves)
Best yields with this directly flowering method are with F1 hybrids
the hybrid vigor from seed is very strong ...but the flowering period gets a bit longer with no veg
happy growings :wink:
Nice thread Hal
... i agree that this method works great. my grows are mostly with no veg, since i made a lot of seeds. I make it just a bit different with the lights. The start is usually with 15 or 16 hours on, & after 2 or 3 days of this regiment, the light is reduced to 11:30/12:30(off)
The plants seem to respond on the switch with faster growing ..not a big difference from constant 12/12 ..but it's noticeable. I'm not certain, maybe the switch is more stimulating the hormones. however i like to use a few days with more than 12 hours light, till the seedlings are stabilized. after that i give em 12:30 darkness. (more darkness makes the flowering a bit faster
a grow from seed is possible in good 2 months. Note; germination don't counts, since there is no need for lights. you can germ the seeds for a new round while the temporary buds are in the last week of finishing. important is the strain, indicas/afghanis are here the stars. Deep Chunk needs about 20daze for showing sex ..and less than 6 weeks till harvest (with mostly white trichomes
..but it's a heavy-inbred afghani (slow growing) & a low yielding line (also hard for sog cuz of the big leaves) 
Best yields with this directly flowering method are with F1 hybrids
the hybrid vigor from seed is very strong ...but the flowering period gets a bit longer with no veg
happy growings :wink:
atmosphere
Member
a word from the man who inspired me to use this method:
Sometimes I can’t understand that growers still stick to old growing techniques.
One of these old growing techniques is to work with cuttings. With those cuttings you have to rely on what the market has to offer you.
Apart from that, you have to ask yourself if you really got what they told you they should give.
Also you often get spider mites and/or thrips for free.
And on top of that the price of cuttings has gone up dramatically over the last years.
And then…….. you have to hope they “catch on” immediately.
Most of the time this is not the case and you see them “catch on” only after about a week to 10 days.
Years ago I wrote: we are returning to seed culture instead of cuttings.
And see… I’ve seen signs left and right that I was telling the truth back then.
GO AND WORK WITH SEED!
It’s cheaper, easier, anonymous and legal, no more waiting and carrying around suspicious wet boxes, no more spider mite/thrips. Your growing rooms don’t stay empty unnessarily, and for sure you harvest more than from cuttings. And if you do it right, you can harvest 7x a year, etc, etc, etc.
How?
Just by using the tricks of Mother Nature!
Assume that seed in cold ground needs 5 to 10 weeks before it chooses its sex.
With 12 hours of light you can force them to choose there sex right away.
Mount a preferably in height-adjustable light fixture with 4-5 fluorescent lights over your seedlings in your flowering room.
The best fluorescent lights are 3x Philips cool white 33 ( NOT "deluxe") and 2x Philips 83 or 84 !
Your “lighting store” knows exactly what you mean and they are not expensive.
Have the tubes run on the same 12 hours as your flowering space by using a timer.
This way you prevent bad light and getting herma`s.
Use pots size 9x9 cm or 10x10 cm in which you put 1 seed.
To read how to germinate your seed follow >THIS< link.
Sow 3 seeds for every 2 females you need, 20 days before you harvest. Use good sowing/cutting soil with clay in it!
Be sure your medium isn’t overfed. An EC of 0.5-0.7 is ok, and in this figure I include the ballast from the tapwater.
With the fluorescent lights right above their heads you’ll be amazed how well the seedlings will develop on 12/12 hours….. and directly choose to be male or female.
That’s why you can weed out the males on the 16-17th day. After 20 days even the biggest noob can recognize the males and get them out.
Don’t be afraid of pollination… females are always receptive a bit later than the males to release their pollen. In the worst case there can grow just one seed in a node of the plant through pollination of a female that chose sex.
They always show their sex in the node by creating one female flower. (Apparently there is a reason for this)
After you have harvested your flowering room… you can put the female seedlings right from under the fluorescents into the 12/12 flowering regi me the same day, so you don’t lose any time.
Because the new “batch” of females are already flowering for 2,5 weeks… you only have 7 weeks to go to your next harvest!
In the meantime (20 days before harvesting) you have again sown seeds and the process repeats.
The result: You get more compact plants without all the lateral branches that take lots of space, take away light and cause a lot of cutting work.
A seedling which is put on 12/12 straight away will only make one big bud of 50-70 cm without lateral branches.
SO…you can put more plants on a square meter because they don’t stand in each others way!
If you start realizing that 85% of the weight comes from the main bud… you’ll understand this system and will seriously consider using it.
Bigger growers can always make a deal about the price of the seed. (Think about that)
Resuming this story: harvesting 7x a year without spider mites/thrips and all that trouble, a much better end result and a lot less bud cleaning to do.
Don’t forget that seedlings have a taproot by nature… and that makes a big difference.
There will be questions about this… we will see.
Sometimes I can’t understand that growers still stick to old growing techniques.
One of these old growing techniques is to work with cuttings. With those cuttings you have to rely on what the market has to offer you.
Apart from that, you have to ask yourself if you really got what they told you they should give.
Also you often get spider mites and/or thrips for free.
And on top of that the price of cuttings has gone up dramatically over the last years.
And then…….. you have to hope they “catch on” immediately.
Most of the time this is not the case and you see them “catch on” only after about a week to 10 days.
Years ago I wrote: we are returning to seed culture instead of cuttings.
And see… I’ve seen signs left and right that I was telling the truth back then.
GO AND WORK WITH SEED!
It’s cheaper, easier, anonymous and legal, no more waiting and carrying around suspicious wet boxes, no more spider mite/thrips. Your growing rooms don’t stay empty unnessarily, and for sure you harvest more than from cuttings. And if you do it right, you can harvest 7x a year, etc, etc, etc.
How?
Just by using the tricks of Mother Nature!
Assume that seed in cold ground needs 5 to 10 weeks before it chooses its sex.
With 12 hours of light you can force them to choose there sex right away.
Mount a preferably in height-adjustable light fixture with 4-5 fluorescent lights over your seedlings in your flowering room.
The best fluorescent lights are 3x Philips cool white 33 ( NOT "deluxe") and 2x Philips 83 or 84 !
Your “lighting store” knows exactly what you mean and they are not expensive.
Have the tubes run on the same 12 hours as your flowering space by using a timer.
This way you prevent bad light and getting herma`s.
Use pots size 9x9 cm or 10x10 cm in which you put 1 seed.
To read how to germinate your seed follow >THIS< link.
Sow 3 seeds for every 2 females you need, 20 days before you harvest. Use good sowing/cutting soil with clay in it!
Be sure your medium isn’t overfed. An EC of 0.5-0.7 is ok, and in this figure I include the ballast from the tapwater.
With the fluorescent lights right above their heads you’ll be amazed how well the seedlings will develop on 12/12 hours….. and directly choose to be male or female.
That’s why you can weed out the males on the 16-17th day. After 20 days even the biggest noob can recognize the males and get them out.
Don’t be afraid of pollination… females are always receptive a bit later than the males to release their pollen. In the worst case there can grow just one seed in a node of the plant through pollination of a female that chose sex.
They always show their sex in the node by creating one female flower. (Apparently there is a reason for this)
After you have harvested your flowering room… you can put the female seedlings right from under the fluorescents into the 12/12 flowering regi me the same day, so you don’t lose any time.
Because the new “batch” of females are already flowering for 2,5 weeks… you only have 7 weeks to go to your next harvest!
In the meantime (20 days before harvesting) you have again sown seeds and the process repeats.
The result: You get more compact plants without all the lateral branches that take lots of space, take away light and cause a lot of cutting work.
A seedling which is put on 12/12 straight away will only make one big bud of 50-70 cm without lateral branches.
SO…you can put more plants on a square meter because they don’t stand in each others way!
If you start realizing that 85% of the weight comes from the main bud… you’ll understand this system and will seriously consider using it.
Bigger growers can always make a deal about the price of the seed. (Think about that)
Resuming this story: harvesting 7x a year without spider mites/thrips and all that trouble, a much better end result and a lot less bud cleaning to do.
Don’t forget that seedlings have a taproot by nature… and that makes a big difference.
There will be questions about this… we will see.
atmosphere
Member
note: he wrote this for the dutch growers who rarely make thier own cuttings.
kooki
Active member
atmosphere said:
Now i can understand what u are saying about getting cuttings from someone/somewhere external to yourself, but a grower can grow plants from seeds, taking cuttings and after a harvest choose what they think is their best from that to keep as a mother and take further cuttings from, no need to go get external to self cuttings, but yes you would need to grow out seeds yourself. so no outside pests being introduced.. and the cost is the beans u bought to grow in first place...
atmosphere said:
As above u can start from seed and keep your own mothers, although u would of course need an extra area to do this.. And growing seed till u have a mother plant for cuttings would economically be cheaper than constantly buying and growing seeds.. u cld let plants seed to get beans but then u cut into bud weight ,although u would only need to do that for one harvest every now n then so, all in all u cld argue either being cheaper i guess....
atmosphere said:
atmosphere said:
With a mother plant already sexed, you know the sex before u even take the cutting...
Now dont take this as dissing the thread, this is just an opinion and option that is available to growers, and claiming something that can be counterclaimed is in my opinion gonna bring these comments. Now u mention that this technique is best suited to being a SOG set up, and i can see your logic there, and sure u have great looking plants , cant argue about that.
You make an argument for grown from seed SOG as opposed to grown from clone SOG, being the seed plant will show more vigour and less lateral branching, which is interesting . Not arguing against that point either. Just wanted to point out that u dont have to go elsewhere for cuttings, u can grow from seed to start, and build up a small collection of mothers(or a large one depends on space the grower etc etc) time invested is always rewarded in the end, and for some growers that patience is rewarded.
Not to sound rude, but if you read the thread from the start you will understand a little more about why to go from seed not cuttings. Going from cuttings has been mentioned and how to do so on your own. There is a logic to the 12/12 method. You can also collect the pollen from a male and pollenate a plant or two outside the room and return it to finish flowering for seed as well.kooki said:
This way you don't need a seperate veg area and you can split a room and run 2 gardens at the same time therefore increasing your output capacity, if that's what you are in to doing.
Thanks for more info Atmosphere
Thanks Kooki for the viewpoint
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kooki
Active member
no rudeness taken chosen, but i have been taking an interest in this thread and have read it ,i made the above statement as i found that interesting, and a reason some may choose the seed 12/12 route.kooki said:
But there is a reason some may point out about clone sogs, that differs from a seed sog and that is, "do u want more variation of phenotype expression(from seed) or do u want to be sure of phenotype expression and have more uniformity of end results(clone)
, Of course a more stable line of seeds with less variation between seed plants would be fine , but not all seed lines are like that...
Remeber So Quick( he was imho a master of the SOG technique) he would use cuttings straight into 12/12, no veg... i honestly dont see why clones are so bad to use when i remember the results SQ got.. go look for some threads, u will see why
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