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100% male with feminized seeds?
- Thread starter Yagar2000
- Start date
You done a great job with them bro
so thanks for doing us proudof course I never say never....
...but I have grown a lot of fems and except for female s1’s[ many times]
throwing out one or two male pods at the first or second internode..
I have yet to come across a true male I could believe .. from the selfed seed
twice in 20 years I have had one plant male ..
but every time there was possibility it was either an errant seed or errant pollen grain
...so I am in your club
I think [the awesome]Wesos/Huesos originally made it....big respect
a true pioneer in sharing and rare and heirloom cannabis genetics
I have some of the m/f seed..
they were basically out crossed bubba I think..
only got bubba look..not that sativa looking plant that is peyote purple..
Hi.
Ivan Bocsa said Cannabis has the tendency to revert to dioeciousness. He developed monoecious lines and unisex female hemp lines long ago. Long before STS feminized seed was developed massively. As he grew fields I used to think the dioeciousness reversion after several generations could be caused by male polen floating around from other field. But actually I don't know.
In modern times I have seen nobody using a male obtained from feminized seeds to make more seeds. They always cull such males. So unless you try to make seeds with such male, it will remain as a mystery.
I think it would be very interesting to try because if such males perform as a normal male. It could be a nice and powerful tool to recover dioecious Cannabis lines from the mean invention of the feminized seed market.
I would ask you if you can pollinate a female lower branch with your male. And see later if you get normal sexed plants. It would be really interesting.
Greetings!
Oh dear what a mess.
It seems that telling people the truth, when they believe in myths, will never be something you get thanked for. We have gone over these topics time and again, and my posts in this thread alone, should have been enough for anyone to look these facts up themselves.
Still, I'll try a couple of thought experiments.
1. Do you go to people whose cat is pregnant, and ask them " if she has any puppies, I'll take one". That's because puppies don't come from cats. Cats don't have dog DNA. Yes dogs evolved, but not from cats, and not in one leap. Such a thing would be considered silly, yet females don't have male DNA. Why is it then, people think you can get males from female only DNA?
Tom and I used to refer to the "maleness" qualities of some X to autosome plants. That's to distinguish them from actual males. You see as I said, the s.e.asian lines have no true males in them, they have modified (to varying degrees) females. When these genes get recombined, all sorts of phenotypical expressions can be witnessed. Including the pollen producers. Now if you are woke and call these things males, then you are wrong, they aren't, they are females with sufficient male modifiers to produce pollen. These can be obtained from female only crosses containing a heavy amount of s.e. Asian genes.
Active Y lines have no way of even doing that.
Now ploidy levels. While there are rumoured to be people working on producing triploid cannabis, so you can't breed it at home, in hemp, they realised that growing tetraploid lines produced more fibre, and so that practice caught on some time ago. This leaves studies on sexual expression of hemp, non comparable with those of diploid cannabis.
I just want to point out that this isn't a pissing match. It's not about experience or position in the industry, it's about scientific truth. Bare that in mind when trying to pick a champion to route for here, I'm not picking a fight with people, I'm pointing out that some ideas are wrong, and need replacing.
It seems that telling people the truth, when they believe in myths, will never be something you get thanked for. We have gone over these topics time and again, and my posts in this thread alone, should have been enough for anyone to look these facts up themselves.
Still, I'll try a couple of thought experiments.
1. Do you go to people whose cat is pregnant, and ask them " if she has any puppies, I'll take one". That's because puppies don't come from cats. Cats don't have dog DNA. Yes dogs evolved, but not from cats, and not in one leap. Such a thing would be considered silly, yet females don't have male DNA. Why is it then, people think you can get males from female only DNA?
Tom and I used to refer to the "maleness" qualities of some X to autosome plants. That's to distinguish them from actual males. You see as I said, the s.e.asian lines have no true males in them, they have modified (to varying degrees) females. When these genes get recombined, all sorts of phenotypical expressions can be witnessed. Including the pollen producers. Now if you are woke and call these things males, then you are wrong, they aren't, they are females with sufficient male modifiers to produce pollen. These can be obtained from female only crosses containing a heavy amount of s.e. Asian genes.
Active Y lines have no way of even doing that.
Now ploidy levels. While there are rumoured to be people working on producing triploid cannabis, so you can't breed it at home, in hemp, they realised that growing tetraploid lines produced more fibre, and so that practice caught on some time ago. This leaves studies on sexual expression of hemp, non comparable with those of diploid cannabis.
I just want to point out that this isn't a pissing match. It's not about experience or position in the industry, it's about scientific truth. Bare that in mind when trying to pick a champion to route for here, I'm not picking a fight with people, I'm pointing out that some ideas are wrong, and need replacing.
mudballs
Well-known member
It wont be XY...poor gmt is gonna have an aneurysm...here, chill out, he's right
Monoecious study
It could be a unique karyotype as stated, and i stated how to inspect without costly genetic testing. You can't remove the intersex trait, you can reverse a feminized plant you know...what's that tell you?...that maybe there's more reading required?
Monoecious study
It could be a unique karyotype as stated, and i stated how to inspect without costly genetic testing. You can't remove the intersex trait, you can reverse a feminized plant you know...what's that tell you?...that maybe there's more reading required?
Excuse for not reading the whole thread before posting.
I have been looking years ago if someone used one of those scarce "males" that appear from feminized seeds to make more seeds and see later how is the sex expression in the oncoming offspring.
I realize too @WHIPEDMEAT posted the Ivan Bocsa interview.
I really dislike the feminized seed thing. It deprives people and even the plant itself the possibility to make more seeds (of course unless you are willing to clone one and spray with a STS solution, which is not my case, or dealing with intersexed plants). From my piont of view fem seeds, specially added to autoflowering trait is only a development of the industry to avoid people making their own seeds by themselves and make much more profit. I think it is only one more addition and one step more after the F1 seed market.
This is actually the we... dream of many (luckily not all) seed companies (and of course not only Cannabis):
Genetic use restriction technology - Wikipedia
So we need knowledge to overcome them.
Janborrego
Well-known member
You will get male pollen which will get you reg seeds
That is not the case , some people don't have room to run Regular seeds that's why they are very popular .Excuse for not reading the whole thread before posting.
I have been looking years ago if someone used one of those scarce "males" that appear from feminized seeds to make more seeds and see later how is the sex expression in the oncoming offspring.
I realize too @WHIPEDMEAT posted the Ivan Bocsa interview.
I really dislike the feminized seed thing. It deprives people and even the plant itself the possibility to make more seeds (of course unless you are willing to clone one and spray with a STS solution, which is not my case, or dealing with intersexed plants). From my piont of view fem seeds, specially added to autoflowering trait is only a development of the industry to avoid people making their own seeds by themselves and make much more profit. I think it is only one more addition and one step more after the F1 seed market.
This is actually the we... dream of many (luckily not all) seed companies (and of course not only Cannabis):
Genetic use restriction technology - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
So we need knowledge to overcome them.
If you only got room for 5 seeds and run Regular you might only have 2 plants Instead of 5.
I love Regular seeds and offer 1 of the largest Regular seed catalogue available also , with over 100 Regular varieties available but also offer around 100 Feminized varieties also .
Feminized sales to Regular is 9-1 Fem/Reg , people stop buying Feminized seeds and we will stop making them , its that simple .
I understand your frustration when offering no Regular seeds but as I said i offer both.
I don't work with Auto varieties, only Regular or Feminized.
So back to the no Males from Feminized seeds , these extremely rare Males found in Feminized seed ( only my Males , i can't talk for others) show not 1 pistil and produce Male/Female seeds.
When making seeds with a hermaphrodite the resulting seeds are always Feminized ? , so how can these show Regular seeds ? , I'm asking as I don't know the science , also science there is always new breakthroughs and updated data , maybe we not learned the reason this happens yet ?
All I know Is there were Males found myself from my own seeds , after growing 1000's normal Feminized phenos and this extremely rare Male shows up, and offspring produced Regular Male/Female seeds.
I can guarantee you contact any legitimate and truth telling large company who been making Feminized seeds for years and who has grown 1000's of his/her seeds over the years they will find very rare what appears to be a Male ( zero pistils at all)
Tynehead Tom
Well-known member
I mentioned earlier in the thread about the Cookie Boi male that @Chunkypigs found in OGKB bagseed , grown and dropped by OGKushBush himself. The whole skinny on that is in his thread here on icmag.
While I will make no claims.... I will only report facts from my garden and experience with seeds made using that male that Chunkpigs released.
Let's look at Scoutbreath, which I have ran over 30seeds of (34 I think total) and not one single issue with intersex. Scoutbreath is bagseed female (ic420 cup winning OGKB 2.0) crossed with her bagseed brother Cookieboi.
The F2 gens I made with multiple male/female combos over the 3 packs of seeds I popped. The outcrosses I made as well. I have been growing these lines full time for 5 years now. I am finding Zero intersex expressions and myself and friends have grown 100's of beans out now.
What I am finding is stable plants that are behaving very much like an IBL and a tight one at that.
Also in more recent events, I started releasing and sharing seeds of the OGKB 2.0 reversed (STS) and hit a few clone onlies and made some crosses for feminized seed. No one is reporting intersex traits and I asked for the Great , the Good the bad, and the down right ugly LOL so no one is hiding the truth from me.
That male breeds true, wants to dominate like deep chunk does in crosses and the Fgens are bhaving like a nicely worked IBL.
So while I get the message guys like GMT are trying to lay down...... I don't believe that there are absolutes the way they are being presented. I have also read from peer reviewed sources that such males "are" possible in Cannabis so there are two sides to this argument and not enough real science or growing has been done to actually provide us with a definite answer.
I would love to converse with OGKushBush himself and ask him about any possibility of pollen transfer in his OGKB rooms back then and what "donor" it might have been. If a "donor" was involved though.... why were seeds not more prevalent in the dispensary buds he dropped?
Regardless..... it doesn't matter what I think I know or don't know.... the plants tell the story and this OGKB 2.0/Scoutbreath/Cookieboi line "should" be throwing intersex if what GMT claims is 100% true. The fact that it won't , even though I have put the line thru hell stress testing..... is why I chose to work and preserve it.
gedLang
Active member
Is the question "Does this plant have a Y chromosome?" My understanding is that is a pretty easy test for a lab. There seem to be some US-based services doing testing based on leaf material for ~$50:
testnovalabs.com
I appreciate the life-long cannabis breeders sharing their experiences in this thread. Though it is a natural impulse, comparisons to human or animal genetics often introduce confusion into these discussions - it is an inadequate frame of reference for plant genetics.
Sexing Your Plants - The DNA Test | Nova Analytic Labs
Uncover the importance of cannabis sex testing with Nova Analytic Labs. Learn about early determination, saving resources, and maximizing cannabis yields.
testnovalabs.com
I appreciate the life-long cannabis breeders sharing their experiences in this thread. Though it is a natural impulse, comparisons to human or animal genetics often introduce confusion into these discussions - it is an inadequate frame of reference for plant genetics.
gedLang
Active member
Also, GMT mentioned the "x to autosome" concept briefly, but he also recently posted a longer explanation here. It was an entirely new concept to me and I found the post really illuminating, if anyone wants to read more and understand how a plant with two X chromosomes can be entirely "male" in appearance. There are a couple of academic papers referenced further up in the thread as well.
Do they though? You can order home test kits to check for the presence of a Y. Without doing the test, if any of the genes in the line are s.e.asian, how can you be sure it's male and not female with a high count of male modifiers?
Yes , always female offspring. 2 females cannot give birth to a male. Cats can't give birth to dogs. These things don't happen.
Now in X to auto, all plants are female, yet some show as male. That doesn't make them male. Unless again, you've gone woke on us.
You said it, "what appears to be male". Seen any trans rights protests recently. It's getting scary, some of them you can't tell they aren't real. Most you can, but those very rare ones you know, a guy could easily be fooled.
Really? What did I say to give you the impression that your plant should be a Hermie?
