friscofrqancis
Member
So Dead-head sticker, Ponytail, Tie-dyed tee-shirt and a stupid grin are no longer 'indicators?'
KOOL!
KOOL!
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10 Common Indicators for Highway Drug Interdiction
- Thread starter TwoPaid
- Start date
I could start inserting case links, training texts, and further educational documents if people likeThey always provide quite a good read regarding the overview.
Please do. Reading through affidavits and such almost more interesting than watching the wire.
Of course will. Might not be today. Want to get things highlighting specific cases.
Good starting point for people would be search out: "Operation Pipeline"
(The origination of a nationwide Highway Interdiction compilation(s) of information and training program(s) established for all 50 states by DEA in place to this day....)
New Mexico is actually the "founder/father" of Highway Interdiction.
An interesting read and history in itself, but, appropriately, "the beginning".
We'll go from there within couple days.....
Good starting point for people would be search out: "Operation Pipeline"
(The origination of a nationwide Highway Interdiction compilation(s) of information and training program(s) established for all 50 states by DEA in place to this day....)
New Mexico is actually the "founder/father" of Highway Interdiction.
An interesting read and history in itself, but, appropriately, "the beginning".
We'll go from there within couple days.....
Then we move on to what EPIC is/does/enables...
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statusquo
Member
Damn Julian your English is very broken and difficult to understand haha! But I love what you are contributing and appreciate the effort and time you have taken to bring this information to us.
From my personal experience:
1. DONT SMOKE. If you are going to smoke, pull over and smoke outside and away from you car. I try and vape as this reduces the smell significantly. If this is not possible smoke and then use mouthwash immediately after. Also use eye droppers - at minimum these two things will make you feel confident that you aren't totally obvious.
2. Never keep any kind of bud or paraphernalia in the car. This MUST BE TRUNKED at ALL TIMES. Also make sure everything is in airtight containers (I also rub down the outsides of all the containers with 99% iso pro alcohol before I leave to get rid of residual cannabinoids/terpenes)
3. Make sure your brake lights work before embarking and keep a clean car. Make absolutely fu ck ing sure that there are no stray pills, roaches or anything else illegal that might turn things for the worse.
4. Adhere to the law but not overly so. Drive the speed of traffic.
5. Don't look sketch. Look normal - if you are thuggish set aside your pride for a little and dress like a "normal" person. Profiling's a bitch
6. Predetermine the place you are going to tell the LEOs where you are staying, how long and know multiple ways to get there. Make sure the story is viable and make sure everyone in the car knows the story.
7. Be RESPECTFUL. Cops have to deal with assholes all the time. Showing some respect while still enforcing your rights and not kissing ass (dead give away) should garner you points. Also don't talk excessively and try be overly friendly. Answer what needs to be answered, be calm and respectful but assertive of your rights. And if you followed rule 1 with the visine/mouthwash, direct eye contact/confident diction will also curry favor.
8. Have all of your documentation accessible and available to give to them in a timely manner.
9. Never grant access to a search. If you are asked to step outside your vehicle do so politely and lock the car behind you. They need permission or probable cause to search your pockets (they can pat you down for weapons but I am talking about emptying your pockets) and bags inside the car.
10. You will be surprised how politely asking "Am I being detained or am I free to go?" can help things out. (LEOs might not like it but a lot realize they don't have anything on you if you followed all the aforementioned rules.)
11. NEVER threaten a cop, touch a cop, tell him you are going to report him or ask him for his badge number. Pay attention to details and remember names and what not.
Hope this helped and sorry for taking up so much space! Good luck everyone and thanks for the thread/contributers. +rep given !
From my personal experience:
1. DONT SMOKE. If you are going to smoke, pull over and smoke outside and away from you car. I try and vape as this reduces the smell significantly. If this is not possible smoke and then use mouthwash immediately after. Also use eye droppers - at minimum these two things will make you feel confident that you aren't totally obvious.
2. Never keep any kind of bud or paraphernalia in the car. This MUST BE TRUNKED at ALL TIMES. Also make sure everything is in airtight containers (I also rub down the outsides of all the containers with 99% iso pro alcohol before I leave to get rid of residual cannabinoids/terpenes)
3. Make sure your brake lights work before embarking and keep a clean car. Make absolutely fu ck ing sure that there are no stray pills, roaches or anything else illegal that might turn things for the worse.
4. Adhere to the law but not overly so. Drive the speed of traffic.
5. Don't look sketch. Look normal - if you are thuggish set aside your pride for a little and dress like a "normal" person. Profiling's a bitch
6. Predetermine the place you are going to tell the LEOs where you are staying, how long and know multiple ways to get there. Make sure the story is viable and make sure everyone in the car knows the story.
7. Be RESPECTFUL. Cops have to deal with assholes all the time. Showing some respect while still enforcing your rights and not kissing ass (dead give away) should garner you points. Also don't talk excessively and try be overly friendly. Answer what needs to be answered, be calm and respectful but assertive of your rights. And if you followed rule 1 with the visine/mouthwash, direct eye contact/confident diction will also curry favor.
8. Have all of your documentation accessible and available to give to them in a timely manner.
9. Never grant access to a search. If you are asked to step outside your vehicle do so politely and lock the car behind you. They need permission or probable cause to search your pockets (they can pat you down for weapons but I am talking about emptying your pockets) and bags inside the car.
10. You will be surprised how politely asking "Am I being detained or am I free to go?" can help things out. (LEOs might not like it but a lot realize they don't have anything on you if you followed all the aforementioned rules.)
11. NEVER threaten a cop, touch a cop, tell him you are going to report him or ask him for his badge number. Pay attention to details and remember names and what not.
Hope this helped and sorry for taking up so much space! Good luck everyone and thanks for the thread/contributers. +rep given !
Continuing on, then we see the compilation of all factors, starting with the numbers game (some LE do 1,000+ stops a month) through interviewing, psychological, behavioral, physical aspects......
Beginning with the numbers game, they know very well it is such. They are not necessarily going to request a search for every vehicle. They know even if they did, seizures would only be a fraction. They don't want to spend their time giving a ticket. They would rather spend their time on processing a load.
Through either profiling or a moving violation, begins the encounter....
The above story actually contains quite a few points of interest, such as noticing only a single key on a keyring (No house keys, etc), many states will also have indicators on vehicles that they are rentals (on plates or otherwise), too heavy on the tint is a popular one to initiate a stop, license plate frame "obstructing" the plate is another popular one, and so on....
How the vehicle sits/rides an indicator, 2 or more adult males always makes every list, race plays a heavy hole in many cases despite claims it does not. Reaction passing them as above an issue, braking, changing lanes, speeding up (psychology of that is is "to get away" from them........one will also notice the audio clip from Hawkes stating individuals will "either consciously or unconsciously try to distance themselves from the contraband", same applies to passing them...(more distance).....
One can see references from many sources stating DARE or religious stickers and references and bibles and such would be found suspicious (another one of those either way ones....)....
One has to remember the overview is one of observation...(I've done it to people....people stopped lying to me long ago.....).....
Source and destination cities an indicator, not the drivers vehicle (if private) a huge indicator, unemployed a biggie.......
Here's a scenario.....let's try some real world exercise, shall we?.....)
Unemployed Hispanic male in his late 30's, residence/license of Phoenix, driving a vehicle registered to a hispanic female in 50's, claims his aunt, resident of St. Louis, $2,000 cash in his pocket, one change of clothes in his luggage, but states going to visit family and for work, in construction, cannot state a duration of visit, cell phone, asked if driving straight through and gave yes and no answers but couldn't say where he planned on stopping to rest, car is impeccably clean, has a motel receipt for one day in Phoenix, when asked how he got aunt's car in the first place, became confused and anxious, subject was noticeably shaking at beginning of encounter, which did not subside during the course of encounter,etc....
I made that one up off the top of my head......but, about how it works........let's try another, shall we?
Stop originates in...Nebraska. Caucasian male and female, both in late 40's, male states an attorney by profession, female a customer service rep. Both residents of Ohio, not married. Vehicle is registered to male. Subjects state they were in California for the males brothers wedding, but could not state the street or location where such took place. Claims they stayed at a specific hotel, but could not readily state name nor produce receipts. Male and female statements about duration of stay do not match, nor regarding details about the trip and their whereabouts. clothing and personal belongings do not correspond with trip and events claimed. Upon initiation of stop, subject was noted as braking and changing lanes, and took an unreasonable amount of time to pull over and officer noted movement between passengers. Subject male was visibly nervous and female
occupant was noted as unusually anxious.
These may very well be made up.......and I could create 100 more quite easily,and, once cases shared, one will find fairly accurate......
There is no single indicator.......there is no single answer......and, in some cases, both above?, well, both cases above could also be completely contraband free.....(but, they're not ......)
As with op security.......as with shipping matters.......as with anything.......most never allow themselves to view their own situation as a 3rd party would....
Both of the above cases certainly would/did not.....because if they did, they would not have provided the ammunition they did....
Most of this is always answered quite easily:
Don't lie.
Here's a good one:
I was visiting family, taking a vacation, relaxing......
Hmmm......but your in the south, it's summer, and you have no signs of any sun....
(The quick would reply "I don't like the sun"......but the problem would be one cannot really escape it regardless
....and, furthermore, why shorts, no sleeves, no hat and no sunscreen? So your in the south for 2 weeks, shorts, no sleeves, no hat, no sunscreen, don't like the sun, and have no signs of any sun?...
I remember I went south once for 2-3 days, laid in sun morning till night all days.... (Note: common assumption is such people will sit in motel room with curtains closed looking out the window waiting, not basking in the sun ......)
Another odd "indicator" is no reading materials for a long trip...the psychology of it stating such people do not have the mindset and patience to sit down and relax and read something........(LE textbooks would not be recommended reading material(s) for such a trip btw.......at all.....especially highway interdiction and drug investigations, FBI, DEA manuals, etc ....(But good reading ....DEA Manual readily found......)
Here's an interesting related aspect:
You have 3 books, and claim your reading them, but can't provide any outline even up to where you claim you have read
And on and on it goes.........
Observation, questions, answers, behavior, reactions, physical aspects, and so on....
Here's a good one:
An 88 year old man, in a Buick, residence of Illinois, with an oxygen tank next to him, claims visiting his daughter in Denver stopped for illegal lane change entering Illinois....(This is based on a real one, I'll find it when I have a second...but, really, they all were.............)
Does the 88 year old man on oxygen fit the "profile"?
Obviously not.
They are trained there is no "profile"....
Beginning with the numbers game, they know very well it is such. They are not necessarily going to request a search for every vehicle. They know even if they did, seizures would only be a fraction. They don't want to spend their time giving a ticket. They would rather spend their time on processing a load.
Through either profiling or a moving violation, begins the encounter....
The above story actually contains quite a few points of interest, such as noticing only a single key on a keyring (No house keys, etc), many states will also have indicators on vehicles that they are rentals (on plates or otherwise), too heavy on the tint is a popular one to initiate a stop, license plate frame "obstructing" the plate is another popular one, and so on....
How the vehicle sits/rides an indicator, 2 or more adult males always makes every list, race plays a heavy hole in many cases despite claims it does not. Reaction passing them as above an issue, braking, changing lanes, speeding up (psychology of that is is "to get away" from them........one will also notice the audio clip from Hawkes stating individuals will "either consciously or unconsciously try to distance themselves from the contraband", same applies to passing them...(more distance).....
One can see references from many sources stating DARE or religious stickers and references and bibles and such would be found suspicious (another one of those either way ones....)....
One has to remember the overview is one of observation...(I've done it to people....people stopped lying to me long ago.....).....
Source and destination cities an indicator, not the drivers vehicle (if private) a huge indicator, unemployed a biggie.......
Here's a scenario.....let's try some real world exercise, shall we?
.....)Unemployed Hispanic male in his late 30's, residence/license of Phoenix, driving a vehicle registered to a hispanic female in 50's, claims his aunt, resident of St. Louis, $2,000 cash in his pocket, one change of clothes in his luggage, but states going to visit family and for work, in construction, cannot state a duration of visit, cell phone, asked if driving straight through and gave yes and no answers but couldn't say where he planned on stopping to rest, car is impeccably clean, has a motel receipt for one day in Phoenix, when asked how he got aunt's car in the first place, became confused and anxious, subject was noticeably shaking at beginning of encounter, which did not subside during the course of encounter,etc....
I made that one up off the top of my head......but, about how it works........let's try another, shall we?
Stop originates in...Nebraska. Caucasian male and female, both in late 40's, male states an attorney by profession, female a customer service rep. Both residents of Ohio, not married. Vehicle is registered to male. Subjects state they were in California for the males brothers wedding, but could not state the street or location where such took place. Claims they stayed at a specific hotel, but could not readily state name nor produce receipts. Male and female statements about duration of stay do not match, nor regarding details about the trip and their whereabouts. clothing and personal belongings do not correspond with trip and events claimed. Upon initiation of stop, subject was noted as braking and changing lanes, and took an unreasonable amount of time to pull over and officer noted movement between passengers. Subject male was visibly nervous and female
occupant was noted as unusually anxious.
These may very well be made up.......and I could create 100 more quite easily,and, once cases shared, one will find fairly accurate......
There is no single indicator.......there is no single answer......and, in some cases, both above?, well, both cases above could also be completely contraband free
.....(but, they're not ......)As with op security.......as with shipping matters.......as with anything.......most never allow themselves to view their own situation as a 3rd party would....
Both of the above cases certainly would/did not.....because if they did, they would not have provided the ammunition they did....
Most of this is always answered quite easily:
Don't lie.
Here's a good one:
I was visiting family, taking a vacation, relaxing......
Hmmm......but your in the south, it's summer, and you have no signs of any sun....
(The quick would reply "I don't like the sun"......but the problem would be one cannot really escape it regardless
....and, furthermore, why shorts, no sleeves, no hat and no sunscreen? So your in the south for 2 weeks, shorts, no sleeves, no hat, no sunscreen, don't like the sun, and have no signs of any sun?...I remember I went south once for 2-3 days, laid in sun morning till night all days....
(Note: common assumption is such people will sit in motel room with curtains closed looking out the window waiting, not basking in the sun ......)Another odd "indicator" is no reading materials for a long trip...the psychology of it stating such people do not have the mindset and patience to sit down and relax and read something........(LE textbooks would not be recommended reading material(s) for such a trip btw
.......at all.....especially highway interdiction and drug investigations, FBI, DEA manuals, etc ....(But good reading ....DEA Manual readily found......)Here's an interesting related aspect:
You have 3 books, and claim your reading them, but can't provide any outline even up to where you claim you have read
And on and on it goes.........
Observation, questions, answers, behavior, reactions, physical aspects, and so on....
Here's a good one:
An 88 year old man, in a Buick, residence of Illinois, with an oxygen tank next to him, claims visiting his daughter in Denver stopped for illegal lane change entering Illinois....(This is based on a real one, I'll find it when I have a second...but, really, they all were.......
......)Does the 88 year old man on oxygen fit the "profile"?
Obviously not.
They are trained there is no "profile"....
friscofrqancis
Member
Any of these questions would be beyond the scope of a traffic stop. Although I would be polite I am afraid I would not give specific answers to these questions. Where I stayed is not any of the officers business, where I am going or where I have been is not any of the officers business. here we are discussing what to say to the police when in fact we know we should not talk to the police. Cop asking me these questions on the street? none of his business.
Seriously, it's all good to have a story straight and that, but I wouldn't be too quick to reply to any of these questions. These questions are really something you might expect if you were arrested for a robbery or other felony and needed to provide an alibi. Then you tell your lawyer first and let him get it in the record, or not.
You might want to answer some innocent conversational question like "where ya been?" OK, you went to a wedding, but if the cop asks "what church? What address?" I would not give them an answer. as far as asking for a a hotel receipt? HA! No.
I've been pulled over with 100 lbs and large quantities of other various felonies in the trunk. The key here is to accept that you are at risk but do not dwell on the thought. Be polite, Be truthful in your answers (to a degree, don't answer, "Why yes officer there is a large quantity of illicit drugs in my car"), be circumspect in giving out any unrequired information, DO NOT BE HIGH!
I was once pulled over in Oregon and told I had a warrant out of Coos Bay. Now, I've been in Coos Bay (Lucky Guess?) but never, ever been even ticketed anywhere in Oregon. Well, I went round and round with those cops for about 30 minutes there on the side of Highway 5. Eventually they come back and say they mistakenly reversed my date and month of birth, it was a different person. this was about twenty five years ago, checking howmanyofme . com there are now 5 people in the country with my first & last name (That's kind of fucked up in itself!). They were fishing.
Being within a certain profile MAY get you pulled over. It does NOT give cops "reasonable cause" for a search. Pulling over people because they match a profile is just casting the line. Keep your contraband out of the passenger/operator area, stay straight while on the road, and DON'T TELL THE COPS ANYTHING. You are not legally required to tell them where you stayed, you are NOT legally required to save hotel receipts, you are not legally required to give an excuse for going about your business. Not everyone reads when on vacation or on the road, not everyone uses a sleeping bag when crashing in the car.
Be calm, be polite, BE QUIET. if you cannot do these things, find another line of work.
CarpeLibertatem
Member
Wow guys, great stuff....thanks for taking the time. Was glad to see this thread had new posts. Then, when scrolling down the page I saw the name Julian...... well, i knew right there we were all in for a treat! I could never handle doing this shit...I'm not good under pressure. But man i love readin' bout guys who can pull this stuff off!
Here's a thought: general aviation. there aint no cops at 15,000 ft. For someone who is serious about transporting quantity, to me, there would be no other way. rent a plane, land at bumblefuck airport. much more control over all....
Here's a thought: general aviation. there aint no cops at 15,000 ft. For someone who is serious about transporting quantity, to me, there would be no other way. rent a plane, land at bumblefuck airport. much more control over all....
Well, first we're not discussing what to say, we're addressing modern Highway Interdiction, and, secondly, your statements are conflicting, as the above is based on observations mostly and "innocent conversational" questions.......(actually not even all.....basics strictly from observations and licenses....)friscofrqancis said:
I also think your missing quit a bit......(Such as a question being used to gauge reaction, to mislead one as to course of their interest, empty questions, and so on......)
If you were by the side of the road for 30 minutes with no dogs present, wasn't an interdiction team. (For certain) They don't do 1,000 stops a month and spend 30 minutes on each.
It's not "reasonable cause" btw, it's "reasonable articulable suspicion".
that's the ticket.
traffic cops WILL ask you questions.
drug interdiction officers will ask you question upon question. basically gauging your responses.
so much case law saying this. it's in almost every drug bust case. states that the officers asked such and such question and the suspect didn't know and seemed visibly nervous the more the questioning went on.
i said before. always always have a story and always make sure you have your story 100% on point with anyone you might be with. reiterate the story to the passengers. they might think your crazy, but it could be the difference.
Vermonster
Active member
"Barry Cooper (ex cop that produces never get busted again) mentioned something on one of his dvds that police do not do highway drug interventions on rainy days. Sounds like a really good point to me.
As for the dogs... Put wolf pee and other things that attract dogs all over the place to fuck up a k9. I travel with a dog so I sort of have that problem solved. When I have been pulled over my little dog is barking it off at the cop. He knows what will happen when they bring a canine to my car, it is all about the dogs then."
would love Julians opnion on those 2 points, both things i have stood by for years.,..
also curious will intradiction cops ever NOT search a car. once they even have the smallest idea? do they realy need to prove shit in the long run? is it truly about menatly convincing them your of no threat? thats a huge task.....
As for the dogs... Put wolf pee and other things that attract dogs all over the place to fuck up a k9. I travel with a dog so I sort of have that problem solved. When I have been pulled over my little dog is barking it off at the cop. He knows what will happen when they bring a canine to my car, it is all about the dogs then."
would love Julians opnion on those 2 points, both things i have stood by for years.,..
also curious will intradiction cops ever NOT search a car. once they even have the smallest idea? do they realy need to prove shit in the long run? is it truly about menatly convincing them your of no threat? thats a huge task.....
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I used to do this on local trips, when I'd go pick up an oz. from a guy across town. I'd tie the bag with string and let it 'hang' in the engine compartment. Even if they took a quick look inside (they never did) they wouldn't find it. They'd have to find the string and then pull the string in order to find it.
Of course, back then I was smoking shitty brickweed. Don't know that I'd wanna do this with 10 lbs of the goody-good.
I really get a kick out of some of this conversation. Say this, don't say that. Know what to say and when. It doesn't matter.
Do you guys actually believe cops are honest? I went on a fishing trip years ago, and there was a retired drug cop staying at the same lodge. We struck up a conversation at the bar. During the conversation this cop told me flat out that most cops carry something with them in the form of drugs. He said he loved the guys that pretended they were Lawyers. He'd "just happen to see the joint, or the baggie with a little pot in it stashed under the seat". His exact words were "instantanious probable cause".
So, even though knowing to keep quiet and using your rights is good in theory, it only works if a cop is honest. A dirty cop's going to "legally" get in your vehicle regardless. That's an aspect they left out of their article......
Do you guys actually believe cops are honest? I went on a fishing trip years ago, and there was a retired drug cop staying at the same lodge. We struck up a conversation at the bar. During the conversation this cop told me flat out that most cops carry something with them in the form of drugs. He said he loved the guys that pretended they were Lawyers. He'd "just happen to see the joint, or the baggie with a little pot in it stashed under the seat". His exact words were "instantanious probable cause".
So, even though knowing to keep quiet and using your rights is good in theory, it only works if a cop is honest. A dirty cop's going to "legally" get in your vehicle regardless. That's an aspect they left out of their article......
It doesn't matter......yeah, well, to the 300,000 in prison cause they didn't have a clue, most of it would have...
Topic is not about what to say or do. Merely the subject and let people, should they find themselves in such a position decide for themselves based on what they have learned...(But we're merely exploring the topic.)
I disagree. Have faced them many times and the most professional and honest I've ever seen. At 1,000+/- stops a month, they're not setting people up with ps. They're out there going after serious loads.(Reno vid below actually shows them letting someone be on their way for ps initially)
(And, to anyone.....yes......I do respect them...anyone who doesn't, regardless of endeavor is destined to fail.....as above....one of most professional/honest branch of law enforcement one will find, and, yes, I absolutely respect that....absolutely.....(Too bad all branches/individuals are not)
Anyway....
Only had a couple minutes, so, not nearly what wanted to add, but a start....(Yes, this is what I get done in a couple minutes....)
I didn't mean of course to be dismissive or disrespectful to poster above, but, you know, the actual way in which things work in many regions is to take the wrong tone, to refuse to answer, to be difficult, to start quoting case law, one will just be told "No problem, hang tight, let me run your license, etc", and, they're calling dogs and you've just placed yourself in the spot.....(That's very real......)...there will be a "problem with the system" long enough for them to arrive..(free air sniff's are allowed, and case law has found up to 2.5hrs. to be a "reasonable" time period......)
There will also be cases found I'm sure that will display situations where one was allowed to leave, only to be stopped again later down the road where the resources are in place/free...so....it just is....
The above?.......what hotel did you stay at?......well, how the question is posed and what follows does indeed place it in innocent casual conversation category...as is virtually anything depending on how it is presented....as does the response (or none) place it in another category.....(but after the fact......) and on and on...but we'll get further in....
Interstate Highway Interdiction is not the same as local, in state stop, or even a bordering state stop, or a in city stop.......
Regarding K9 distractions, I have heard the above but it has never been proven to my satisfaction. (One can find more than enough material regarding detection training online, sufficient enough for any one to train one themselves, and, this includes, among other things, distractions. I've seen countless training exercises with other animals in target areas, including cats and barking dogs, and, in everything I have seen (many things), it did not distract the dog for even a moment...(Note: There are many trainers, and training facilities throughout the world, and, each and every one may very well train different, but, I have seen many using multiple other animals in target areas for distraction(s), and, really, again, it did not make a difference in the least. (It was quite amazing actually......the depth of their focus).....
Bad weather helps and depends on the specifics, but, I have seen teams out in several states during lighter rains, and, would all depend on the specifics of the situation....ie: Not so much as calling it a day due to rain, but, picking and choosing their targets more carefully....(Which they do from the beginning, as that is their specialty....)
It should be noted they very well may also be working in tandem with other agencies in the area....ie: a specific agency does the initial stop, has a suspicion, so they call them over to stop in and take a look, etc, as is the case with many departments/agencies nationwide...with k9 units and such (5 locals may share counties k9's, and so on......as is again, common throughout US. Not every agency has every aspect covered, and they sometimes share each others resources......)
Note: Links contained may very well may be government agencies, so, the wise approach would be right click the properties to identify main site, then enter later through an SE search and work ones way to that page...
Typical Highway Interdiction Curriculum (The importance is to note overview and subject matter)
Then you have more advanced, such as MCTFT SCORE (Secret Compartment Recognition Education.)
It should also be noted Operation Pipeline is private vehicles, Operation Convoy is sister program for commercial vehicles. (Both are handled by different units...Commercial Enforcement handles, of course, Commercial.)
Drug interdiction: partnerships, legal principles, and investigative methodologies for law enforcement is a common training text. (Half+ book here)
Tactics for criminal patrol: vehicle stops, drug discovery & officer survival (Have to find used copy, but quite easy. One of most widely referenced training texts.)
Narcotics investigations: working and surviving is another training text.
(One can find copies of many things for almost free if they look hard enough...)
Starting page 146 good Pipeline and CHP notes and details. (A lot of good little notes throughout that one)
Quick LE training note:
I think the most significant approach I have found is: Don't look for the drugs, look for the spot(s).
You stand and look at almost any vehicle, and, anyone with the least bit of automotive/body knowledge can quickly and easily identify the most likely areas of concealment.
Note: There are also numerous private databases which catalog 10's of thousands of past cases, sorted by year and make and model....ie: enter make and model for the assortment of past concealment. Factory through modified.
For example: There is a certain late 80's and early 90's american larger vehicle which contains a certain factory space, which can be accessed through work which is quite large. (This I know, so I used it as an example.....but they know also, so.....)
Going back to the above how they know nothing, and the encounter dictates their suspicions.. Don't take my word for it. Take his: "We look for several different subject and vehicle indicators...at that point confirm or deny our suspicions".
Another backtrack: City/County/State agency (Tri Agency) present for single violation, as above...City/county initiated the stop, State provided the K9.
Yet another:
"Distractors" part of K9 training scenarios...(although wouldn't it be "distraction(s)........)
Last but not least, and getting back on track, is a quick segment on , as previous discussed in another thread. Reno Drug Interdiction Unit, handling Highway, Rail, Bus, and Parcel Interdictions. Actually of interest since severeal lately have doubted that Rail and bus lines are stopped in many locations throughout country. (Amtrak and DEA go back many, many years...while people still doubt it I have no idea....)
Anyway......
Study of every traffic stop by AZ DPS over 2 years, (500,000 stops I believe) (It's a 170 page PDF) The most thorough I have seen.
Number 6 mentioned the "Attitude vs. the Dope refusal", referencing the above about behavior of "average" person vs. guilty.
PDF Motion to Surpress with great dialogue included
Of course, along with any and everything related, also comes familiarity and training regarding indicators of deception, which frankly, everyone can use(and should, applies to almost any situation in life...business, etc..):
How to read a person like a book (large portion of book)
Body Language
(Yes, that is part of interdiction training, as above. Indicators of deception....verbal and behavioral...)
Halfway down the page, one will note the The Roadside Diagnostic Phase.
Topic is not about what to say or do. Merely the subject and let people, should they find themselves in such a position decide for themselves based on what they have learned...(But we're merely exploring the topic.)
I disagree. Have faced them many times and the most professional and honest I've ever seen. At 1,000+/- stops a month, they're not setting people up with ps. They're out there going after serious loads.(Reno vid below actually shows them letting someone be on their way for ps initially)
(And, to anyone.....yes......I do respect them...anyone who doesn't, regardless of endeavor is destined to fail.....as above....one of most professional/honest branch of law enforcement one will find, and, yes, I absolutely respect that....absolutely.....(Too bad all branches/individuals are not
)Anyway....
Only had a couple minutes, so, not nearly what wanted to add, but a start....(Yes, this is what I get done in a couple minutes
....)I didn't mean of course to be dismissive or disrespectful to poster above, but, you know, the actual way in which things work in many regions is to take the wrong tone, to refuse to answer, to be difficult, to start quoting case law, one will just be told "No problem, hang tight, let me run your license, etc", and, they're calling dogs and you've just placed yourself in the spot.....(That's very real......)...there will be a "problem with the system" long enough for them to arrive..(free air sniff's are allowed, and case law has found up to 2.5hrs. to be a "reasonable" time period......)
There will also be cases found I'm sure that will display situations where one was allowed to leave, only to be stopped again later down the road where the resources are in place/free...so....it just is....
The above?.......what hotel did you stay at?......well, how the question is posed and what follows does indeed place it in innocent casual conversation category...as is virtually anything depending on how it is presented....as does the response (or none) place it in another category.....(but after the fact......) and on and on...but we'll get further in....
Interstate Highway Interdiction is not the same as local, in state stop, or even a bordering state stop, or a in city stop.......
Regarding K9 distractions, I have heard the above but it has never been proven to my satisfaction. (One can find more than enough material regarding detection training online, sufficient enough for any one to train one themselves, and, this includes, among other things, distractions. I've seen countless training exercises with other animals in target areas, including cats and barking dogs, and, in everything I have seen (many things), it did not distract the dog for even a moment...(Note: There are many trainers, and training facilities throughout the world, and, each and every one may very well train different, but, I have seen many using multiple other animals in target areas for distraction(s), and, really, again, it did not make a difference in the least. (It was quite amazing actually......the depth of their focus).....
Bad weather helps and depends on the specifics, but, I have seen teams out in several states during lighter rains, and, would all depend on the specifics of the situation....ie: Not so much as calling it a day due to rain, but, picking and choosing their targets more carefully....(Which they do from the beginning, as that is their specialty....)
It should be noted they very well may also be working in tandem with other agencies in the area....ie: a specific agency does the initial stop, has a suspicion, so they call them over to stop in and take a look, etc, as is the case with many departments/agencies nationwide...with k9 units and such (5 locals may share counties k9's, and so on......as is again, common throughout US. Not every agency has every aspect covered, and they sometimes share each others resources......)
Note: Links contained may very well may be government agencies, so, the wise approach would be right click the properties to identify main site, then enter later through an SE search and work ones way to that page...
Typical Highway Interdiction Curriculum (The importance is to note overview and subject matter)
Then you have more advanced, such as MCTFT SCORE (Secret Compartment Recognition Education.)
It should also be noted Operation Pipeline is private vehicles, Operation Convoy is sister program for commercial vehicles. (Both are handled by different units...Commercial Enforcement handles, of course, Commercial.)
Drug interdiction: partnerships, legal principles, and investigative methodologies for law enforcement is a common training text. (Half+ book here)
Tactics for criminal patrol: vehicle stops, drug discovery & officer survival (Have to find used copy, but quite easy. One of most widely referenced training texts.)
Narcotics investigations: working and surviving is another training text.
(One can find copies of many things for almost free if they look hard enough
...)Starting page 146 good Pipeline and CHP notes and details. (A lot of good little notes throughout that one)
Quick LE training note:
I think the most significant approach I have found is: Don't look for the drugs, look for the spot(s).
You stand and look at almost any vehicle, and, anyone with the least bit of automotive/body knowledge can quickly and easily identify the most likely areas of concealment.
Note: There are also numerous private databases which catalog 10's of thousands of past cases, sorted by year and make and model....ie: enter make and model for the assortment of past concealment. Factory through modified.
For example: There is a certain late 80's and early 90's american larger vehicle which contains a certain factory space, which can be accessed through work which is quite large.
(This I know, so I used it as an example.....but they know also, so.....)Going back to the above how they know nothing, and the encounter dictates their suspicions.. Don't take my word for it. Take his: "We look for several different subject and vehicle indicators...at that point confirm or deny our suspicions".
Another backtrack: City/County/State agency (Tri Agency) present for single violation, as above...City/county initiated the stop, State provided the K9.
Yet another:
"Distractors" part of K9 training scenarios...(although wouldn't it be "distraction(s)
........)Last but not least, and getting back on track, is a quick segment on , as previous discussed in another thread. Reno Drug Interdiction Unit, handling Highway, Rail, Bus, and Parcel Interdictions. Actually of interest since severeal lately have doubted that Rail and bus lines are stopped in many locations throughout country. (Amtrak and DEA go back many, many years...while people still doubt it I have no idea....)
Anyway......
Study of every traffic stop by AZ DPS over 2 years, (500,000 stops I believe) (It's a 170 page PDF) The most thorough I have seen.
Number 6 mentioned the "Attitude vs. the Dope refusal", referencing the above about behavior of "average" person vs. guilty.
PDF Motion to Surpress with great dialogue included
Of course, along with any and everything related, also comes familiarity and training regarding indicators of deception, which frankly, everyone can use(and should, applies to almost any situation in life...business, etc..):
How to read a person like a book (large portion of book)
Body Language
(Yes, that is part of interdiction training, as above. Indicators of deception....verbal and behavioral...)
Halfway down the page, one will note the The Roadside Diagnostic Phase.
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I would imagine LE incorporates wolf urine & other dogs into their K9 drug detection training. Shit, simple dog obedience schools employ all sorts of distractions during training. I can't see how LE wouldn't constantly be training with current methods (whether it be wolf urine, other dogs, dead bear carcass in the trunk, etc). It would only make sense to do so.
But if you're shit is packaged properly... kinda negates the need for any distractions to throw off a dog, doesn't it?
The above worthy of additional addressing:
The Roadside Diagnostic Phase
Control Of The Interview: The area or distance from which the roadside interview is conducted will solicit various verbal and behavior responses.
Verbal Cues: Identification of symptoms of speech quality and content which gives the officer the clues as to whether statements of the subject(s) are truthful or deceptive when a relevant question is asked.
Speech Rate: When a subject's rate of speech speeds up in an area, it indicates that area has already been prepared or rehearsed as a response. The implication is that the subject has anticipated an inquiry into this area and has already prepared the deceptive response.
Vocal Skippers: Deceptive subjects experience more frequent occurrences of speech disturbance. The disturbances occur because the subject is trying to attain or is having difficulty maintaining their thought pattern. (i.e. Stammering, Stuttering, Slurring Words)
Angered Roadside Subject: This subject may verbally attack you and what you stand for or make threatening statements. The deceptive subject will try to attempt to block your interview in this manner.
Subject Denial: Denial is the mood in which the subject re-enforces his commitment to reject his guilt or involvement. The more denial progresses the more difficult the subject is to say "yes". (i.e. Memory Lapses, Denial Expressions, Qualifiers, Stalling Tactics)
Bargaining Statements: Complaining about themselves is a form of bargaining. "Soft Words" compliance, "Religious Statements" I swear, "Name Dropping" people the subjects know.
Non-Verbal - Body Language: The key to detecting deceptive behavior is to observe incongruent signals between verbal and non-verbal behavior. Body language is the "Check Register" of moods. (i.e. Head Movement, Sweat, Eye Pupillary Response, Lip Behaviors, Facial Color)
This is what they study.....
Shame most don't study the same who undertake such, eh?...
(Principles of Kinesic Interview and Interrogation is $300 new, or $20-$30 used btw......One should always go for the used, and try eBay first, but I think would be unwise selection for extended travel reading ....or, for some?...maybe very wise .)
One can also note my earlier comments, regarding statements, and the second, which addresses "a relevant" question...... Hint: A polygraph will mix insignificant/innocent questions with significant ones .....And why do they do that again? ....
The Roadside Diagnostic Phase
Control Of The Interview: The area or distance from which the roadside interview is conducted will solicit various verbal and behavior responses.
Verbal Cues: Identification of symptoms of speech quality and content which gives the officer the clues as to whether statements of the subject(s) are truthful or deceptive when a relevant question is asked.
Speech Rate: When a subject's rate of speech speeds up in an area, it indicates that area has already been prepared or rehearsed as a response. The implication is that the subject has anticipated an inquiry into this area and has already prepared the deceptive response.
Vocal Skippers: Deceptive subjects experience more frequent occurrences of speech disturbance. The disturbances occur because the subject is trying to attain or is having difficulty maintaining their thought pattern. (i.e. Stammering, Stuttering, Slurring Words)
Angered Roadside Subject: This subject may verbally attack you and what you stand for or make threatening statements. The deceptive subject will try to attempt to block your interview in this manner.
Subject Denial: Denial is the mood in which the subject re-enforces his commitment to reject his guilt or involvement. The more denial progresses the more difficult the subject is to say "yes". (i.e. Memory Lapses, Denial Expressions, Qualifiers, Stalling Tactics)
Bargaining Statements: Complaining about themselves is a form of bargaining. "Soft Words" compliance, "Religious Statements" I swear, "Name Dropping" people the subjects know.
Non-Verbal - Body Language: The key to detecting deceptive behavior is to observe incongruent signals between verbal and non-verbal behavior. Body language is the "Check Register" of moods. (i.e. Head Movement, Sweat, Eye Pupillary Response, Lip Behaviors, Facial Color)
This is what they study..
...Shame most don't study the same who undertake such, eh?
...(Principles of Kinesic Interview and Interrogation is $300 new, or $20-$30 used btw
......One should always go for the used, and try eBay first, but I think would be unwise selection for extended travel reading ....or, for some?...maybe very wise .)One can also note my earlier comments, regarding statements, and the second, which addresses "a relevant" question......
Hint: A polygraph will mix insignificant/innocent questions with significant ones .....And why do they do that again? ....
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i don't understand when people refuse consent to a search...
if i were a cop and someone refused to consent to a search...pshhhhh. call the k9 unit because this person def. has something to hide. such a red flag. so suspect.
i'd like to hear your take on it julian. if you are asked to consent to a search...what would you say?
if i were a cop and someone refused to consent to a search...pshhhhh. call the k9 unit because this person def. has something to hide. such a red flag. so suspect.
i'd like to hear your take on it julian. if you are asked to consent to a search...what would you say?
I've carried a lot of shit through a lot of places over the years. Thankfully, I have a good partner. My wife. I would never consider carrying large weight by myself and deffinatley not with another man.
We always make sure to do our traveling around a holiday or a time when people would be traveling. We pretend we actually ARE going on vacation. We bring everything that we would bring with us for a long weekend. She even writes down everything we plan on doing and seeing. We make it completely realistic. I also contact the DMV and make sure there is no problems with my license. That's a big no no.
Another thing we never do is smoke any weed nor drink while we are carrying anything. If you can't go without smoking during this time, then I'd advise you not be carrying anything. Nothing will get you busted quicker.
Over the years I've been talked to by cops on two occasions. Once being pulled over and the other at a road stop. Both times I was carrying large amounts. I always make sure the license, insurance and registration are easily gotten to, but don't leave them laying on the seat next to you. Way to obvious. I keep my license in my pocket and the ins and reggie are in the glove box in the ins folder. I also make a habit of leaving the glove box open the entire time. It gives the impression that you have nothing to hide. Anytime you open something that you have to put something back into,,,,,, leave it open.
Another thing to remember if you get pulled over is to not move at all until the Officer gets to the vehicle. Nothing will get you searched quicker then shifting and moving around like you're hiding something.
If you get pulled over for doing something wrong, take responsibility for it. You give them a hard time they are going to give you a hard time.
We always make sure to do our traveling around a holiday or a time when people would be traveling. We pretend we actually ARE going on vacation. We bring everything that we would bring with us for a long weekend. She even writes down everything we plan on doing and seeing. We make it completely realistic. I also contact the DMV and make sure there is no problems with my license. That's a big no no.
Another thing we never do is smoke any weed nor drink while we are carrying anything. If you can't go without smoking during this time, then I'd advise you not be carrying anything. Nothing will get you busted quicker.
Over the years I've been talked to by cops on two occasions. Once being pulled over and the other at a road stop. Both times I was carrying large amounts. I always make sure the license, insurance and registration are easily gotten to, but don't leave them laying on the seat next to you. Way to obvious. I keep my license in my pocket and the ins and reggie are in the glove box in the ins folder. I also make a habit of leaving the glove box open the entire time. It gives the impression that you have nothing to hide. Anytime you open something that you have to put something back into,,,,,, leave it open.
Another thing to remember if you get pulled over is to not move at all until the Officer gets to the vehicle. Nothing will get you searched quicker then shifting and moving around like you're hiding something.
If you get pulled over for doing something wrong, take responsibility for it. You give them a hard time they are going to give you a hard time.
when i have nothing bad, i do that.
made them waste 5 hours one time...
just so i can say "told you so" to the dirty pig.
cost?
priceless.
statusquo
Member
Not all cops/people are intent on punishing people just for the sake of punishing/because they can. Also, I know plenty of libertarians/educated people that will refuse a search regardless because it is their right. It does NOT necessarily mean they have something. Also, it takes time and money to get a K9 unit out there - many cop's are too impatient to wait. Frankly they shouldn't be waiting...tax payers are paying for protection not for multiple units to waste hours trying to bust some pot smuggler. Go get some gangbangers or something....
