10 Common Indicators for Highway Drug Interdiction

[Rednick]

One time I met a CHiP and he said most of his busts were either from NARCS, or details that didn't add up on Random or Profiled Stops.

Like "Where are you coming from?" Not the same state as the license plate, odd.
"That is a 20+ hour trip, where did you stay (city, motel, ect)". You didn't, odd you don't have a sleeping bag in the car.
"So I see the car is registered to XXXX, how do you know him". Funny, you're not related, not even good friends, you don't even seem to know him.
"What brings you to our state?" Then a whole line of questioning begins, better have it straight.
"You are going where? Well, son you are on the wrong highway". Yeah, you're fucked there. Know at least a few different ways to get to where you are going. And if you are not taking the most direct fastest route, have a good reason for the scenic detour (may just be that, a scenic detour).

Oh and be careful of typing your end destination into the GPS. Learn to use a map, and ditch that record keeping device. Don't have both in the car, otherwise that will look odd too.

 

[Julian]

Those are several, but, again, it doesn't begin, or end there.

One could begin by breaking it down from even before stopped, and could continue through endless aspects until after complete.

I've been stopped on 40 with loads, by K9 units and sit here today.

The above (10 common) and even a little extra not enough to get one through the experience.

Everything begins with passing them, and all physical specifics, and goes from there.

The 10 common are general, and old, and not really relied upon anymore.....ie: The new generation are taught if a rasta in a rainbow vw bus passes burning one, that is most likely not a smuggler/courier.

Psychology:
Most in such a position would pay more care to appearance, and not smoke on the route.

(Yes, of course they would stop them, but the once over would be much quicker.)

Conversations play a part (the interview). Questions, physical evidence of statements, destination, origin, route, body language, and on and on....Vehicle, appearance, specifics, the make and model, and so on....

For fun:
There are also an endless set of criteria and actions which come into play when merely passing them. (For the studious......some still do profile base on old models......). This does apply a little more far and wide also btw than abovementioned training/scenarios, and used throughout the country.....ie: What you do/your behavior when passing them begins the process.

Trained Highway Interdiction officers are not the same as those who are not...and high level "professionals" most of the time.....ie: No donuts on their dash......

 

[Vermonster]

you guys all rock. I guess i should stick that industrial size ozium can in the glove box

 

[Julian]

That would also fit the typical profile during interview and analysis, as would tools inside the vehicle (or even those in trunk if not part of a set).

The beginning of the encounter they merely may have a suspicion. It is what the encounter contains which either strengthens that suspicion or shows them unfounded and they should move on.

Of interest also is to go after stats regarding any specific agencies stops, and the analysis if available (ie: How many stops, how many requests to search, how many seizures, day/night, weekday/weekend, ethic breakdowns, vehicle breakdowns/states, violation listed for their initiating the encounter, and so on....

Granted, much of their criteria is indeed innocent, but good psychology and analysis behind it....(such as large amounts of fast food wrappers and such in vehicle, which from their psychology signifies one doesn't want to leave the vehicle unattended, but might simply be a matter of someone not wanting to sit down and such if traveling alone.....)

They don't know anything upon initiating the encounter...it is the individual(s) being interviewed which tells them what they want to know through statements, body language, physical reactions to stress, physical aspects of vehicle, and so on...

Even if one was to have superior training to theirs, and discipline, one still has to address the physical reactions to stress, which again, is not a cut and dry issue....(ie: The "average" person is, indeed nervous during a stop and encounter, and they are aware of this, used to it, and expect it, but, one attempting to hide something takes on a different tone.......the average person will, as the encounter continues, become more relaxed, whereas someone hiding something will become more nervous (Of course, even if one is well versed, it is still quite disturbing to go through the process, even when understanding each and every action and question they do....)

Breathing, pulse/veins in neck, body language/stance, and so on under severe stress, even with knowledge and discipline are much more difficult to address and control than one might think (been there, done that ).....

It is rarely one thing, and any reports/cases found will illustrate the same. The "articulable reasonable suspicion" is usually a rather long and detailed report, listing sometimes dozen of factors combined to arrive at the conclusion the reporting officer does.



One of the most expansive security related topics there is imo.

Truly a science/art....(for each opposing side).

I have never known a single person to undertake such an endeavor in 25+ years who ever even read a single article, let alone training texts, cases, and so on......

Nor have I even known a single person who did not who didn't eventually get cracked due to any and everything they could have easily learned with a little time to avoid it.

 

[perennial]

the average person will, as the encounter continues, become more relaxed, whereas someone hiding something will become more nervous

I find it very hard to understand your writing style but it's gems like this that make the deciphering worthwhile. Wow. Love your outdoor thread, too. Major respect.

 

[Julian]

Thank you, and, very kind of you to say.

Your not the first to mention writing style, and, writing how I would speak has long since shared, but, here's something for people to ponder:

Maybe.......just maybe.....I write and structure how I do so people will read more carefully and pay attention to the words themselves.

I guess most miss that.

Most skim. They don't pay attention.

Since that was of interest, let's address the above more. (Found in majority of LE training.)

1. It is indeed common that the "average" person will display a wide variety of emotions. They know this before the encounter has begun.

Examples:
A. The avg. person will indeed be nervous.
B. The average person may very well indeed become angry, defensive, and so on.

A1. The average person will indeed calm down during the course of the encounter.
B1. Those with things to hide will not display anger. They will appear apologetic (psychological guilt), they will also not escalate the encounter through anger, because they have something to hide.

Interdiction 101. (And also Legal 101).
To anyone who has been through it, the majority of the time, they will let you go with a warning, then comes the "Hey, btw........." followed by the request for a search. (This is, of course, if it didn't go well......there is indeed a legal basis behind that aspect, as well as a psychological.

Ah, or is it?

I say above "If didn't go well", when, it very well may have, and they are still unsure...the following another series of tests......observation(s).....question(s)....

A. Again, they are never truly certain. They only have suspicions.
B. You may have done well, and they're just throwing that out there to see further reactions.

B1. Psychological notes:
Again, the average person will behave in a number of ways, as will those who are not. The change in behavior will be noted when the request is made.

Personal note:
I had one encounter where they did that, and then I guess I did well because they didn't search. (Quick glance to see physical aspects, which of course completely accompanied my story.)

More aspects-Red flags:
1. Cross country trip for short period.
2. They will question specifics of the above (where did you stay, where will you stay, where was event held, again, observing your answers as well as body language and physical reactions.)

Flip side:
1. Extended stay, let's say a month.

Well, then why do you not have what an "average"person would (a month of clothes and such). Also, there might be something in car, glove, wallet, console which shows that isn't true. (ie: receipts from the route 2 days ago for example....

Behavioral notes:
In almost every case one can find, one will find vague answers regarding the specifics of the trip (where they stayed, who they stayed with, the hotel, if a hotel, and so on.....)

I write as I would speak. This is not my thesis, nor my presentation to the UN.

This is a conversation, and I choose to relay the characteristics of such. For many reasons.

Thanks btw. Glad of interest.

 

[Julian]

Further note(s):
One can easily reverse the process, with their own observations and analysis:

1. Well, what if they ask about trip. I say a month, but no clothes.
2. What if they ask where I stayed. I need a months worth and only have 2 days.
3. Is there anything in vehicle which illustrates a shorter stay?
4.Is vehicle cleaned, clean.

and so on.....

Regarding driving straight through:
There are another 100 other aspects which accompany this, ranging from:

A. Such a stop will be a significant event in your life. Are you prepared for it after 10-20-30hrs. on the road?
B. Analysis of when and where and how to pass through certain areas and regions may very well dictate stops along the way to "time it out"...ie: passing through certain areas at certain times/avoiding certain areas at certain times, and so on.

Note: It is also high on list as suspicious (straight through), and, the longer the trip, and the more stops, the less it fits in with what they are looking for.

Time of year play a role. Weather play a role. (Example: I once drove through one of the absolute hottest areas in the country at 9am. Why?. Weather which made it quite favorable was present, and, if I didn't go straight through it, I may have had to wait a day or more (or even longer)...

Note: I will not address any specifics about any areas or routes. (For various reasons, mostly being counter intel by LE)

Further note on weather:
Many in the past (phrasing chosen carefully) would have been wise to watch and travel with the forecast. I've taped while driving my share of tornado's, of the worst blizzards one could imagine, and so on....heavy rain always nice, ice is great also, etc.....

btw, applicable nationwide. If one must speed, don't hit the breaks. Keep it on cruise control, and back off to limit if coming up on one. There looking for break lights, they're looking for erratic driving after you pass them, they're looking for lane changes and changes in speed,they're looking for slowdown if they pull out behind you, lane changes if they pull down behind you, head movements to observe them, and so on.....

This is a practice utilized in all 50 states day to day.

Once had one pull out behind me out West and stayed exactly the same speed, same lane, for about 30 minutes. (Note: One hand is only going to throw you outside the lines....I use 10 and 4 o clock.)

They're also looking for a solid 10 and 2 position, arms straight (tensed). They look for observation/acknowledgment of them...(I rest left arm and elbow on door, casual, but my right is on console with a very tight counter grip ....)

Story above:
I do the flip,(check speed) cruise control on and fine. about 4-500 feet after I pass him, he pulls out behind me (the feeling of such can be discussed later ), and he basically circled me for 30 minutes (behind, then left, then front, then ease off and right side, then back behind me....this continued for about 30 minutes, and, once while on left, I did give him a glance (your supposed to) and another flip and a look of confusion/surprise, and continued.....

(That did end in a stop, longer story, and I did make it through that one also, rather quickly, as I was fairly defensive and angry about it )....)

Further note (again applicable nationwide)
The "average" person will do the flip check (hand on wheel raises to check speed, then back down), this is natural behavior, but, any addition of the above can raise a suspicion and catch their interest.

And so on.......

To thread starter, sorry for extended commentary, but, I do consider this my greatest area of expertise, and have put my life upon it. Many times.

I have placed my training against theirs and won every time. (knocking on wood like a woodpecker on meth and thanks to the universe for allowing such....)

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

haha. love the advice julian. school these peeps.

the highway is my second home, so i know the ins and outs.

i'm all over the interstate and the one thing i have to say is, don't give them a reason to pull you over because they will. and if they want to pull you over anyway they will. for the most part those cops sitting by the side of the road with a radar are waiting for some asshole to do 90 by them.

everytime i see a cop radaring i hit on my brakes down to the speed limit, this is what a normal person would do, it's almost a form of showing respect.

when you see a cop sitting in the right hand lane going 45 in a 65. this is when i start to worry, because he is usually trying to get a look and profile people. usually there is more than one moron trying to stay behind him. so i make sure to look ahead and see that there is a cop slow rolling like that i start to tap the brakes and blend in with all the people that are too scared to pass him.

usually, he will realize he is bogging down traffic pretty bad and speed up. sometimes he will hit on someone and pull them. in some rare cases i have seen cops pull off to the side of the road. and than you have to pass him. at this point there is a good buffer of cars in front of you and behind you. get into the other lane and start acting like you are having an interesting conversation with the person in the car with you. laugh etc etc..pay him no mind.

so...some main points of this post for people who can't understand my blabbering.

1. be aware of your surroundings AT ALL FUCKING TIMES
2. show respect and don't be an asshole driver
3. try to blend in as much as possible. i do this thing i call buffering..it's an art. i usually always have a car or 2 behind me and in front of me.
4. act casual and natural. get your mind off the fact you got weight on you.
5. always have a story worked out and make it explicitly known multiple times to your passengers. cops will separate you and make sure your stories match.
6. never ever ever ever smoke when riding dirty. i don't hardly ever smoke in my car. that smell can linger for days.
7. love the feeling. and savor it. if you can't learn to like the feeling you get when you see a cop on the road when you got weight, than you shouldn't be doing this. i see it as a challenge. it gets me off in a way. it's in moments like those when i feel the most alive. weird eh?

those are the facts.

a few superstitions/rules of mine
1. used to pay hott innocent looking chicks to drive me
2. never ever ever ever more than 2 dudes in the car. no looking sketchy (me and my
brother used to goto philly and grab weight dressed in full golf gear. callaways in the back. with the weight stuffed in under the clubs. we were headed back from the links in atlantic city
3. always a clean car always.
4. weight always in the trunk in one way or another.

well. that's my input. i did the interstate thing for years and years. i could write a book on it. anyways. good luck people. don't be stupid. follow julian's advice. he knows his shit. by the way always knock on wood *knocks on wood for this whole post/thread*

forgot to mention. if you are really serious, there are deeper ways to get into it. multiple drivers. for multiple legs of the race. i have family. i do the one leg of the trip, they do the rest. the package never stops. this is good. if you are a marathon driver carvanning works. just don't make it obvious.

hey julian..let's start a transporting business. you know...like the transporter movies.

have fun peoples

 

[Julian]

You brought up some very good (very) good further points worthy of more in depth. Will add some shortly (about scoping, (how they sit and position themselves) rolling (when they're driving), and, utilization of something which I coined as "strategic positioning" (That's mine ).....which has saved my ass more than once, and, many aspects involved ...

They also position themselves differently (interdiction) than radar, and, interdiction really don't do radar, (it's also against their training.....ie: if their looking at the screen, "then they are missing the indicators", etc....)

When they're "rolling", one of the many strategies is to force people to pass them (again, to observe many things...be it physical, or behavioral, etc.....

Meaning:
1.They will pay attention to people going under and not passing them.
2. They will be able to view fully everyone who does pass them.
3. Side note:
The typical patrol is between certain mile markers, again relating to the above, the where and the when and the how and which areas....

Example: To get through state A may very well be 400 miles, but your danger spots might only be 40 of those 400, (as 2 teams might be assigned to 2 20 mile stretches, etc...

Further note:
One would be well advised to monitor agency web sites, as they very well may share in advance periods of activity....ie: The weekend of x and x they will be doing seatbelt, drunk driving crackdowns, and so on, which is usually just a cover for increased presence anyway .....)

One would also be wise to check the news of recent activities and arrests for the very same states and cites.

Further note:
Many areas throughout the country, "everyone wants a piece", meaning, you will not only be facing the state patrols, but also possible task force, also county, and also possibly specific cities which the interstates pass through....(as in the case of, say, Texas DPS, Carson County, city of Groom in Texas, all at the same time/same area.....etc......but applicable across many regions of the country.

Will get back to the above as very good issues brought up above. (And actually something above made me laugh out loud cause right on target, 100% )

 

[Blowstrees]

Julian,

Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to post your knowledge in a well thought and easily understood format

No but seriously, always enjoy your posts dude. Always worth the read and easy to understand the tone.

Psychology is a fascinating artform...and by learning how to utilize it, one can learn alot just by observation and watching for reactions that are beyond our control. Bwahha! Rad.

 

[tetragrammaton]

A few years ago, I knew a brother and sister who would vacuum seal any thing substantial and DEMAND that you put it under your hood, not trunk, with no stash box. Their reasoning was "How many times do you hear of a cop asking someone to pop their hood." In my opinion that method seems like it could quickly degrade the cannabinoids, with the extreme amount of heat?

 

[Julian]

Thanks, really, and, kind of you to say.....

I really do want to add more to the above, but, on a deadly serious note:
A stop by an interdiction team when loaded is by far the most terrifying thing one will ever face.

I am the only one I have known in 25yrs. to come out of it. (and many of them....)

With each one, I researched and learned more, and felt better the next time....the first one?, scared me so much I never wanted to do it ever again (I didn't in the first place, but, had a problem and it had to get through, so...I was the most knowledgeable, so...decided I would rather it be me than someone who didn't know anything.....)

I also discovered in the process that hair turns white overnight, not over the course of time when due to stress, but the scientific explanation escapes me at the moment....

Truly one of the most terrifying experiences one will ever have. (Will add more of physical/mental aspects also later....)

I can say this......I've met/known several who have made successful cross country runs.....and that always earns from me the title of "the baddest mutherfucker in the room"...worthy of respect for having made it through something that would leave most in a corner in the fetal position sucking their thumb.....

I've had guys in lead/tail vehicles, which, even empty, took it's toll on them .....they just couldn't handle it.......same as guys with the outdoor ops, harvest time, etc.....(hitting heavy spots for cutting, bringing it out, transporting home, etc)......

You truly get a good look at someones psyche when they're thrown in such situations.....

Fun note:
Had a full load/dual k9 stop, that, after the stop, not only made it (straight) home, but adrenaline kept me up and running around with endless energy for a week until I finally collapsed....

Above post regarding under hood. Will address but we will not address the how's and where's of packing.... (for counter intel reasons)

Cross contamination and proper packing procedure and all related aspects always does apply though.....ie: Heat, movement, and time being the factors in OTR's of packaging.....

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

A few years ago, I knew a brother and sister who would vacuum seal any thing substantial and INSIST that you put it under your hood, not trunk. Their reasoning was "How many times do you hear of a cop asking someone to pop their hood." In my opinion that method seems like it could quickly degrade the cannabinoids, with the extreme amount of heat?

i knew people like that. they make stash boxes that are behind the engine block. can only be done in certain cars. to open it this kid had to hit a bunch of radio buttons and his alarm on his keys. it didnt degrade at all. it was a really sweet stash box. shitty part, he took the car in for service at the dealership, and they found it. voided his factory warranty.

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

another fucked up thing i saw one time in nebraska.

a bunch of signs saying "drug check point 1 mile" with cops everywhere on the side of the road. there was an exit in a half a mile.

it is illegal for cops to set up any sort of road block on an interstate.

what they were looking for:

idiots trying to toss shit.
people looking nervous and driving erratically not knowing what to do
people getting off the next bumblefuck nebraska exit with no gas station at it for no reason

i decided to drive through because i knew what was up. needless to say. there was a checkpoint on the road off the exit. there ended up being no drug check point and everything was fine. so if you see someone like that, don't freak and just keep driving.

 

[Julian]

Firewalls are prime target/suspect.......they are well aware, but, again, if they are that far, (under hood and firewall and such), there have been many, many failures leading to that point....

Yes, they do ask to pop the hood in many cases. If seal and timing (duration of trip) and temps and such are okay, will turn out fine......(I've had melted packages that turned out fine also btw...just 1-2 outer layers, and, once or twice, error in packing and straight through to product by time of arrival....

 

[tetragrammaton]

I'd also like to add/agree with others who have said to know your rights. I have been in cars with friends, where the situation could have easily gone south, but all it took was the driver saying "Do you have a warrant?" for the officer to not want to take any further action. In that specific situation, there was a lot of suspicion as well, yet no warrant.

I was once pulled over, and had nothing on me, however I had just come from a friends house, and smoked. I also had a huge ass cup of coffee, and I am sensitive to caffeine and it gives me the jitters.

I was pulled over and informed that I had a light out or something. I imagine my eyes were bloodshoot, and I couldn't find my lighter to light a cigarette, so I imagine he could smell the smoke on me. Like I said, caffeine makes me jittery, so evidently my hand was shaking when I handed over my license and registration.

After sitting in the car waiting for him to return to my window, he told me I was acting suspicious and asked me to step out of the vehicle. He then asked me if I have a medical disorder, or if I had a reason to be nervous. I said "No" and he then asked to pat me down. I was wearing a thick jacket, btw. He simply patted my sides, my front and back pockets, and my jeans and socks. It only took a few seconds. He never asked me to take off my jacket, or to see if there were any contents.

Around this time, backup arrived, and I was getting irritated, as I had nothing on me, and it was cold outside. I said "You can search the car if you want." It was a mess. Hundreds of pop cans, cigarette packs, fast food wrappers, legally prescribed pharms in the bottle, etc...

Obviously they found nothing illegal, because there was nothing illegal, so they let me go, but not without saying "If you did have something, we didn't find it, have a good night", in a weird way. Like saying "good game" or some shit, after you lose.

 

[Julian]

another fucked up thing i saw one time in nebraska.

a bunch of signs saying "drug check point 1 mile" with cops everywhere on the side of the road. there was an exit in a half a mile.

it is illegal for cops to set up any sort of road block on an interstate.

what they were looking for:

idiots trying to toss shit.
people looking nervous and driving erratically not knowing what to do
people getting off the next bumblefuck nebraska exit with no gas station at it for no reason

i decided to drive through because i knew what was up. needless to say. there was a checkpoint on the road off the exit. there ended up being no drug check point and everything was fine. so if you see someone like that, don't freak and just keep driving.

Missouri also, and another state which I forgot, and, another example of the least bit of research would have told them it was bogus (and even the case law behind it )....

Braking alone when hitting the signs might even get a stop....

And, yes, for legal, they always do it at "no services" exits....

I always got a laugh out of those ....

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

anyone familiar with modifying gas tanks. i knew kids that would cross the canadian border into the u.s. with it stuffed in the gas tank. i heard they have scopes these days thought. and that they'll get under the car to see if the gas tank has recently been fucked with. than scope it. anyone have info on this?

 

[tetragrammaton]

I would also like to agree with those who have said not to smoke weed while driving. A simple traffic stop for a valid reason, such as having a license plate light out, could turn into something much worse if you've been smoking a joint.

I would also advise if you must smoke on your drive, to roll joints, and have no bowls or any other smoking devices lying around. I would also suggest having something to drink with you, in case you need to swallow your joint or roach, and wash it down, without having weed particles in your mouth.

 

[Julian]

I did just write out a several page post, and deleted it.

This should be kept as a discussion of the art and science of highway interdiction.

Not a how to, nor revealing any details which are not included in training.

Gas tanks have been used and documented in many cases, portable scopes part of an interdiction/border units tool kit, and borders will also have mobile (in addition to fixed) x ray trucks to assist state and local authorities when called.

The tanks, they can insert scope, but also are looking for (all over vehicles) any sign of any recent work.

I could start inserting case links, training texts, and further educational documents if people like They always provide quite a good read regarding the overview.