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I'm watching a 'must see' documentary...

Grat3fulh3ad

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
well, 'must see' imho...
It's called 'America: Freedom to Fascism

It began as a tax code documentary, but became a much deeper film...

Anyone who has seen it is welcome to comment or discuss here...

It's by Aaron Russo.
 
T

treble

Active member
I got this and watched it. I agree its a must see not just for every American but for every person on the planet in my view. I found this chilling, not for its conclusion, I can see it coming but for the fact that it is so very close now and action is required urgently.

They know the word is getting out so they are moving faster now. Global warming is yet another piece of the plan. Destroy the environment then you can sell them air and feed them god knows what in their food. I fear for what we might become if they achieve this.

people should be holding movie nights and showing this to as many of their friends and family as they can
treb
 
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SilverSurfer_OG

SilverSurfer_OG

Living Organic Soil...
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Havent seen this movie but it is on my wishlist...

Have you seen Loose change???

Now there another movie every man, woman and child should see...

Nothing like a good dose of reality.
 
gnosis

gnosis

Member
Whats the problem with the income tax, whats the link of this tax with fascism in the USA ?

Do people actually really think that the USA are fascist ? moreso than Europe (where freedom of expression is more limited), Somalia, Chile or China ? more than Liberia, Algeria, Thailand, Indonesia ? more than Egypt, Belarus, Iran ? more than in Erithrea, Yemen, Sudan, Bolivia, Ukraine ?

I know I'm in the minority given smokers tend to like conspiracy theorism more than the average population (because of the "philosophic lol" effect of Cannabis, and because of tenser than necessary relations with law and order), but those are my questions.
 
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Grat3fulh3ad

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
gnosis said:
Whats the problem with the income tax, whats the link of this tax with fascism in the USA ?

Do people actually really think that the USA are fascist* ? moreso than Europe (where freedom of expression is more limited), Somalia, Chile or China ? more than Liberia, Algeria, Thailand, Indonesia ? more than Egypt, Belarus, Iran ? more than in Erithrea, Yemen, Sudan, Bolivia, Ukraine ?

I know I'm in the minority given smokers crave conspiracy theorism in all its forms, but those are my questions.
Click to expand...
The problem with income tax, in a nutshell, is that is is unconstitutional.
The constitution clearly states that this is not the kind of tax that is legal to levy. The 16th ammendment is their justification for the 'new' tax instituted in the early 1900's, however the supreme court has ruled several times that the 16th ammendment does not and did not give the government the power to institute this new kind of tax.

Also the 16th ammendment was never ratified properly, the required number of states never has signed off on it. This has even been mentioned in Supreme court decisions.

The Supreme court has also ruled several times that income is not defined as wages traded for labor, but is defined as corporate profits.

There is no law to require private citizens to file a 1040.
If you file a 1040 and any information is incorrect, you can be jailed and convicted of a crime.
The 5th ammendment to the constitution gives the right to refuse to submit incriminating evidence about yourself.

In spite of the illegality and unconstitutionality of the tax, IRS agents who work for a private company NOT a government agency, can Take away all of your property and freedom, and claim rights to all of your future labor earnings.

The federal reserve bank, another private institution, has the power to print currency and regulate its value. The US government is owned by the federal reserve bank, which is in turn owned by the top finiancial institutions in the world. Our income taxes are used for two purposes only, to pay the 'fees' to the fed reserve bank for 'using' their currency, and to fund wars.

I never said that the US had the degree of fascism that some other countries do, but to deny the conversion of our country from freedom to fascism over the last 100 years is indicative of blindness and ignorance.
 
Grat3fulh3ad

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
the legal corporate income tax generates roughly 100 billion in revenues per year....

the illegal private income tax generates roughly 900 billion per...
 
gnosis

gnosis

Member
You noted that I tempered my discourse in the meantime.. thanks for the interesting answer, thats some food for thought.

I readily admit that the process that lead to this tax is not mountain pure water, but I think it's arguable that its more often the case than not, nothing is perfect and human laws not more than the rest. That said I have the belief that if 95% of Americans were strongly convinced of it (note, I'm European) and made it their everyday concern, the -democratic- system would allow one or the other or a third candidate to propose the repelling of a disliked law ?

In the imperfection of the world, I think that it is dishonnest to say that because this law/tax whatever isn't pure as water it mean that the governement tends to fascism. There are imperfect laws (we know it well), and we have an imperfect system (democraty) to correct it. In my mind, working at that with logic, good sense, in agreement with citizens, thats what politicians are paid for, and in the end the voting person has the last word.
 
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Grat3fulh3ad

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
From mirriam-webster...


fascism
One entry found for fascism.
Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality -- J. W. Aldridge>
Click to expand...
AND from Answers.com...


n.
often Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.
Click to expand...




Add religious fanaticism to the part about Nationalism and racism and that sounds pretty USish to me....
 
T

treble

Active member
gnosis these are good points and your answers are in the movie. It is very clearly presented and I think you will have all you need. The basis of the movie is that there is no law requiring a US citizen to pay income tax and no one can present one as evidence.

and as grat3ful says facsisim in this context is literal and not a comparison with other fascist governments from history. The literal definition of facsism is what is happening in the US at the moment. The economic enslavement of the people to a small group of people who own everthing.

This movie and the consequences of what it has highlighted are significant. Its well worth watching.

treb
 
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Grat3fulh3ad

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
gnosis said:
You noted that I tempered my discourse in the meantime.. thanks for the interesting answer, thats some food for thought.

I readily admit that the process that lead to this tax is not mountain pure water, but I think it's arguable that its more often the case than not, nothing is perfect and human laws not more than the rest. That said I have the belief that if 95% of Americans were strongly convinced of it (note, I'm European) and made it their everyday concern, the -democratic- system would allow one or the other or a third candidate to propose the repelling of a disliked law ?

In the imperfection of the world, I think that it is dishonnest to say that because this law/tax whatever isn't pure as water it mean that the governement tends to fascism. There are imperfect laws (we know it well), and we have an imperfect system (democraty) to correct it. In my mind, working at that with logic, good sense, in agreement with citizens, thats what politicians are paid for, and in the end the voting person has the last word.
Click to expand...

It is far beyond simply the income tax law, and the income tax code is ILLEGAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL, there is no law BTW... Yep that's right, they can jail you indefinately, and seize everything you have worked for, because of violating a non-existant law based on an unconstitutional tax code which claims to be authorized by an ammendment which the supreme court has ruled does not grant that authority.

It is a FRAUD perpetrated by a Private bank, and supported by the government, not an imperfect law...

The statement was once correctly made "give my control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes it's laws"

The Federal Reserve (not a federal government institution, but a PRIVATE bank) controls the money supply.

Democrat or Republican or Third party 'logic, good sense, in agreement with citizens' don't matter when all the votes are bought by lobbiest paid by the 'Owners'.

:fsu:
 
Grat3fulh3ad

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
gnosis said:
Well thanks to you I decided to read this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_pr...at_the_Sixteenth_Amendment_was_never_ratified and I now have educated reasons to continue thinking there is no conspiracy, and this tax is legitimate enough.
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Well, if Wikipedia is authority enough for you...

I'd watch the documentary though, like I've said over and over, the unconstitutional tax code is only the surface of the growing trend toward fascism here...

Wikipedia is a compendium of generally accepted facts and opinions, and is by no means an authoritative source, btw...

Also If you'd paid attention, The supreme court has ruled that:
1. the 16th ammendment does not grant the right to levy any new kinds of taxes. in other words, if you weren't taxable before the 16th ammendment, then you aren't taxable afterwords.

2. Income is defined as corporate profits, and wages for labor constitutes a swap of something I own (my labor) and something someone else owns (cash). Being paid for labor constitutes a trade, not a profit.

Also, you can be prosecuted for filing an incorrect return, and the 5th ammendment to the constitution gives me the right not to submit information that could incriminate me.

Based on these three facts, if you think jailing and robbing citizens of all present and future assets, for failing to report and pay taxes on their labor, is just... then you my friend should rethink and re-examine all of the available data.
 
G

Guest

Really who wants to not do this and be stripped of their hard earned property and financial assets only to then be put in jail for refusing to ever pay for erroneous mistakes incurred under a broadbrushed tax scam.

If it really is a fraud it almost seems like an inescapable one to the average citizen.

If you refute the law most other citizens will give the knee jerk response that the taxes pay for our infrastructure, civil servants, and defense.

Therefore your a bad person for not obeying the tax law and never mind where you think the money should go.

I dare not try to "evade" Federal Income Taxes lest I be tackled by beefy police brutes and recieve financial garnishments for testing the Federal banking mafia.


:deadhorse
 
Grat3fulh3ad

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
syrinx said:
Really who wants to not do this and be stripped of their hard earned property and financial assets only to then be put in jail for refusing to ever pay for erroneous mistakes incurred under a broadbrushed tax scam.

If it really is a fraud it almost seems like an inescapable one to the average citizen.

If you refute the law most other citizens will give the knee jerk response that the taxes pay for our infrastructure, civil servants, and defense.

Therefore your a bad person for not obeying the tax law and never mind where you think the money should go.

I dare not try to "evade" Federal Income Taxes lest I be tackled by beefy police brutes and recieve financial garnishments for testing the Federal banking mafia.


:deadhorse
Click to expand...
I don't dare to advise anyone to stop paying taxes. Especially someone already involved in illegal activity. The documentary makes alot of valid points, other that that.

Also, and importantly...
If you refute the law most other citizens will give the knee jerk response that the taxes pay for our infrastructure, civil servants, and defense.
Click to expand...
If only the income tax was for infrastructure and civil servants, and social programs, and making our country a safe and happy and free palce to live.

It is not, however, It goes to the federal reserve bankers, 100% pays interest.

How did we fund government from 1776 to 1916?

There are plenty of legal taxes for all of the other things.

Property taxes for schools, Fuel taxes for roads, Sales taxes for municipal government services, etc...

Watch some of the movie... Hell it's free, and full of useful facts...


And... How am I beating a dead horse discussing a new documentary?
 
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Grat3fulh3ad

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
gnosis said:
Thanks for the link I'll watch it. That said Wikipedia is as reliable as any other great Encyclopedia (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4530930.stm), which is not the case of commercial movies.
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Wow, I read that article...
I'm suprised at the number of factual errors present in most encyclopedias...
I am glad to note though that wiki is 'about' as accurate as they, concerning the scientific entries which were tested...
It would be very interesting to have independent testers do the same test on the history portions of the encyclopedia and wikipedia...
Science is much less subjective than History, since those in power write the history books... If there were 162 errors in randomly checked encyclopedia articles about scientific topics, and 123 in wikipedia on the same entries, One wonders about many of the more subjective topics...
 
G

Guest

I have seen the movie and the dead horse was more for the example of the tax pushers and their predatory ways.

You could say the topic is a dead horse though since no one can seem to challenge and defeat these scamming IRS and Government teams.
 
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