I'm watching a 'must see' documentary...

[Guest]

I have seen the movie and the dead horse was more for the example of the tax pushers and their predatory ways.

You could say the topic is a dead horse though since no one can seem to challenge and defeat these scamming IRS and Government teams.

Seems quite a few are trying....and that my man is progress.I found the movie quite interesting , and you know I believe it..I mean dude, the Boston Tea party was started over a half -a cent tax on tea, and yet were letting this government take half of what we earn in a year, plus having to pay at tax time too, what's up with this country and it's people? When is enough going to be enough?I mean do you need Thugs in combat fatigues kickin your door in before you say "gee maybe we DO have a problem"?

 

[gnosis]

Wow, I read that article...
I'm suprised at the number of factual errors present in most encyclopedias...
I am glad to note though that wiki is 'about' as accurate as they, concerning the scientific entries which were tested...
It would be very interesting to have independent testers do the same test on the history portions of the encyclopedia and wikipedia...
Science is much less subjective than History, since those in power write the history books... If there were 162 errors in randomly checked encyclopedia articles about scientific topics, and 123 in wikipedia on the same entries, One wonders about many of the more subjective topics...

Well, the point is that everyhting in Wikipedia is to take with a grain of salt, but so are other encyclopedias.

Three years ago I bought the DVD edition of a well known encyclopedia (€160), but I desinstalled shortly thereafter. Why ? because it's not much better to have articles written by just a few people. Even if they are the best specialists, they also may have their bias. At least Wiki solves this, even if it has the new problem that any page could be vandalized anytime... in the end I prefer the shortcomings of "too many editors" rather than those of "too few". And Wiki has a much better interface and much much more hyperlinks, its huge now. edit: going to look the movie tonight.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Well, the point is that everyhting in Wikipedia is to take with a grain of salt, but so are other encyclopedias.

Three years ago I bought the DVD edition of a well known encyclopedia (€160), but I desinstalled shortly thereafter. Why ? because it's not much better to have articles written by just a few people. Even if they are the best specialists, they also may have their bias. At least Wiki solves this, even if it has the new problem that any page could be vandalized anytime... in the end I prefer the shortcomings of "too many editors" rather than those of "too few". And Wiki has a much better interface and much much more hyperlinks, its huge now. edit: going to look the movie tonight.

Very well posted! And a fine underscoring for my position.
Everything you have ever been taught should be taken with a grain of salt, and we should always strive to gain our information from as many reliable sources as possible.

Edit: and I look forward to continuing our discussion after you've watched it.

 

[Ronley]

This Documenty plus 1000's of other TV shows, and Movies can be warched at a click on the link!!!!
The TV program or movie instantly starts to play. Wait a about 10 min, and then start the show from the begining as you watch the first 10 min the rest is downloading and this way it does not stop every min to refresh the show.

ITS QUITE BRILLIANT!!!
http://tv.peekvid.com/

If you dont want to watch anything but you want to listen to music. then
www.pandora.com
On this site you type in the name of a song or artist singing the song and the site plays similar type music non stop, automatically.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

excellent link ronely

 

[gnosis]

I've began watching it (and will continue after this little pause) and I have so many critics already

I think that independantly, each element of such a theory are partially true, or related to real problematics that desserve attention.

Like here:
-how much power do we give to the governement ?
-wich taxes are just and which taxtes are unjust ?
-is the actual rate of tax is correct and equilibred ?
etc

or in case of 9/11 conspiracy theorist:
-which links do governements have with shady individuals ?
-do we [governement] need to acquaint with shaddy people if there is a great benefit ?
-how is the state of information gathering, are people secure against threats ?
etc

Those are all important and legitimate questions, though complex and generally not having the attention they desserve when things seem to go well enough.

But that the way such things are then set up to look like a conspiration against people, well in my opinion it is giving too much credit to the action of individuals (may they belong to the gobv or to a big company) and not enough to society, power struggles, extremists groups, etc...

I think that even in the despotic society there is a thresold of public good will under which is is very difficult to run a state. The closer to a society run totally against its citizens would have been the Khmers certainly . But most often there is no such thing that could be hidden by a conspiration if people really really want to know about it (expecially in the USA), and nothing that can't be changed if people really really want to change it (especially in the USA).

Who is in charge today ? consumers. No need for conspirations when all you get to run the world is those buggers, and quite frankly I'm fine with it.

 

[raygun]

I have seen this and it is very disturbing. You as an American are guilty untill you prove yourself innocent with tax evasion. Your wages will be garnished, your property seized; cars, valubles, the roof over your head, ect. and then you can fight a private corporation who had fedral control to get it all back.
The boston tea party the start of this great nation was over the unjust taxing by a controlling governmet that the founding fathers came to escape. We have enslaved a free nation to a private coporation called the federal reserve.

And as far as us not being worse than some other countries or the "it could be ...... country" or the "its better than what is available in the world today." comments.
This country was not founded on "we'll give you just a little better than whats availabe" it was "Freedoms and power to the people." The people have just given the power to the wrong people for to many years.

The World Wars made people trust and believe in our govt. They could do nothing wrong, they would never decieve us, They are our protectors. That set up what we currently have now an nation of ignorace. Get happy in your suburban home with your white fence, 2.5 kids and family dog. Get your Yukon, your corvette, mercades benz. tivo, DVR your favoirite shows, spend your days pluged in to the TV, drink starbucks, eat MC Donnalds, buy, consume, buy, consume, consume no concern....Pay no attention to the man behind the Govt.
end rant.....

Their are so many

 

[gnosis]

The World Wars made people trust and believe in our govt. They could do nothing wrong, they would never decieve us, They are our protectors.

That's horribly naive

Also:

The data for 1999 show:

*

The top 1 percent of taxpayers earned 19.5 percent of all adjusted gross income, but paid 36.2 percent of all federal personal income taxes.
*

The top 10 percent of taxpayers earned 44.9 percent of all adjusted gross income, but paid 66.5 percent of income taxes.
*

On the other hand, the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers earned 13.2 percent of all adjusted gross income, but paid only 4 percent of income taxes.

In other words, the top 10 percent of tax filers were responsible for two of every three dollars paid in income taxes in 1999, while the bottom half of all those who file tax returns paid essentially no income taxes.

http://www.claremont.org/publications/precepts/id.174/precept_detail.asp

- Income tax seems a tax that weights more on richer people. This is matter of debate, is that just or not. Apparently the common choice is that its rather just.

- The way its been set up is imperfect but not more than most other Amendements... will you argue against the 1st because there is some irregularity in the text from some states, like a missed uppercase ? no.

I don't get what the fuss is about. Having problems for not paying taxes ? hardly breaking news. That there is a typo in a Admendement ? seriously. That it taxes rich people more ? I'd shed a tear.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Who is in charge today ? consumers. No need for conspirations when all you get to run the world is those buggers, and quite frankly I'm fine with it.

That's a bit naive if you ask me.
Consumers can put pressures on producers, sure, but for the most part the 'owners' know that we are sheep, and will buy any sparkly bauble placed up for sale. We will buy food that we know is killing us, clothing we know were made in third world sweatshops, tobacco products... The consumers are not in charge, the owners are!
Who are the owners? Well, if you purchase durable goods and properties on credit, then it's not you! The banks and top corporations are the owners, they buy all the important votes with their lobby power, and our rights and freedoms and potential are eroded with each new vote.

 

[Trichome Toker]

If you like that documentary I would check out: http://www.infowars.com & http://www.prisonplanet.com. This collection of articles I really like: http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_police_state.html

The corporations & bankers have taken over the country, I agree with you.

Just like Thomas Jefferson predicted.

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies . . . If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] . . . will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered . . . The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." -- Thomas Jefferson -- The Debate Over The Recharter Of The Bank Bill, (1809)

Best link on banking evils ever: Jefferson's Prophecy

Proudhon is another great figure worthy of reading for sure:

"To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed,
law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached
at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded,
by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the
virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every
transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured,
numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented,
forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of
public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed
under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted
from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then at the slightest resistance, the
first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harrassed,
hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned,
judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed, and to
crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is
government; that is its justice; that is its morality."

P. J. Proudhon, _General Idea of the Revolution in the
Nineteenth Century_

 

[gnosis]

We will buy food that we know is killing us, clothing we know were made in third world sweatshops, tobacco products...

Not all choices are free of influences, but that's not a surprise either. I stopped cigarette, check where my shirts come from, and buy healthy food, so I guess that if I manage to do it, other may happen to manage it too.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Not all choices are free of influences, but that's not a surprise either. I stopped cigarette, check where my shirts come from, and buy healthy food, so I guess that if I manage to do it, other may happen to manage it too.

Precisely, We are presented limited choices and the illusion of freedom, but the further from the 'normal' choices we stray, the more difficulties we endure.
You should have never had to break an addiction you were tricked into...
You shouldn't have to search for the few products available that were produced in an ethical manner...
You shouldn't have to go to a special store or section to find food that won't harm you...

The same could be said of not volounteering to offer up a portion of your labor as tribute. If some manage to do it (67 million americans) maybe others will too. I won't ...I'm afraid other illegal activities might be discovered, and I won't advise anyone in a situation like mine to either. But maybe some will, and then maybe someday 'We The People' can have our country back from the banks.

 

[Rare Groove]

I won't ...I'm afraid other illegal activities might be discovered, and I won't advise anyone in a situation like mine to either. But maybe some will, and then maybe someday 'We The People' can have our country back from the banks.

Therein lies the big problem. I've read on these boards and elsewhere that one should limit the amount of 'illegal' activities they are commiting in order to remain free of the clutches of the legal system. Problem being, there are so many things that are 'illegal' today, how can we ever turn the system around if we're selective about which ones to obey or not? I'm not talking about moral wrongs, such as harming another person; I'm talking about things we've been led to believe are illegal through our government and social conditioning, like not paying income taxes or growing MJ. This is more of a hypothetical question than anything, and I certainly don't have the answer.

I do fear for the direction the US, and the world at large, are heading. And I passionately want to do anything in my power to curb and maybe even reverse this direction. But how? Thanks for this thought provoking thread, Mr. G.

 

[Crazy Composer]

This is a real eye opener.

I went to see it the day it opened up in NYC. Aaron Russo was there. We saw the early showing. When we got out of the theater, the 7PM crowd was lined up... around the block! Tons of people were there to see this film. Probably a few Federal agents as well.

 

[Trichome Toker]

Therein lies the big problem. I've read on these boards and elsewhere that one should limit the amount of 'illegal' activities they are commiting in order to remain free of the clutches of the legal system. Problem being, there are so many things that are 'illegal' today, how can we ever turn the system around if we're selective about which ones to obey or not? I'm not talking about moral wrongs, such as harming another person; I'm talking about things we've been led to believe are illegal through our government and social conditioning, like not paying income taxes or growing MJ. This is more of a hypothetical question than anything, and I certainly don't have the answer.

I do fear for the direction the US, and the world at large, are heading. And I passionately want to do anything in my power to curb and maybe even reverse this direction. But how? Thanks for this thought provoking thread, Mr. G.

If you remain free of "illegal" activities you trade being ass fucked by the legal system for being ass fucked by the wage slavery system.

I would rather spend a few months in county jail every 10 years than spend 8 hours a day as a wage slave 6 days a week.

You may be an ambassador to England or France,
You may like to gamble, you might like to dance,
You may be the heavyweight champion of the world,
You may be a socialite with a long string of pearls

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You might be a rock 'n' roll addict prancing on the stage,
You might have drugs at your command, women in a cage,
You may be a business man or some high degree thief,
They may call you Doctor or they may call you Chief

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a state trooper, you might be a young Turk,
You may be the head of some big TV network,
You may be rich or poor, you may be blind or lame,
You may be living in another country under another name

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a construction worker working on a home,
You may be living in a mansion or you might live in a dome,
You might own guns and you might even own tanks,
You might be somebody's landlord, you might even own banks

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a preacher with your spiritual pride,
You may be a city councilman taking bribes on the side,
You may be workin' in a barbershop, you may know how to cut hair,
You may be somebody's mistress, may be somebody's heir

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

Might like to wear cotton, might like to wear silk,
Might like to drink whiskey, might like to drink milk,
You might like to eat caviar, you might like to eat bread,
You may be sleeping on the floor, sleeping in a king-sized bed

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may call me Terry, you may call me Timmy,
You may call me Bobby, you may call me Zimmy,
You may call me R.J., you may call me Ray,
You may call me anything but no matter what you say

You're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody.
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

 

[budrezin]

what i really worry about is us the western societies becoming a cashless society were everything is done by card & computer, if that ever hapens it means the end of us all , don't worry about income tax.

 

[Trichome Toker]

If that happens people will just trade herb directly for items.

Drug dealers will just be like "OK you want how much? A pound of herb? OK hold on let me bust out my WalMart catalog... OK go to WalMart with your cashless ATM card and buy me this $4,000 '72" Sony Plasma Flat Panel Television'"

Either that or they will accept gold, diamonds etc.

Never under estimate the power of the desire to get high & get over.

 

[budrezin]

trich i hear what your saying but without cash it's just not the same ,like dealers could get their customers to electronicaly credit their acount, it's just the fact that all the info is recorded so when it comes time to investigate all they have to do is pull the records, and they know all your movemnts what you own basicaly everything,then if they want they can just freeze your account . no good , very bad. i agree with aaron russo it was better when the currency was backed by gold & controled by the government.

 

[Trichome Toker]

Well, no drug dealer would have any type of "account", same way most don't have bank accounts today.

They would just accept items directly, no electronic records.

The buyer would be on record as having bought something, but that would just look like a normal purchase.

I definitely agree with you about the gold standard.

Google: Jefferson's Prophecy

 

[budrezin]

trich , absolutely what would a drug dealer do with a bank account, hey i know! they could launder the money & put the money in an account & i don't know buy a house or a boat or a car or something that the taxation department wont ask questions about.
what do you recon pure fantasy or what?