Purple Haze Meao Thai and Golden Tiger Offspring Test Grow

I thought it might be fun to create a thread for my next grow. I am harvesting seeds today created by a Sativa Afghani Genetic Equilibrium (SAGE) mother seeded by a Golden Tiger (GT) male and other seeds from a Old Timers Purple Haze x Meao Thai (PHT) male. I thought I'd set the stage before I sprout the seeds.

The Mother:

The cutting of SAGE that I have is an easy to grow plant that is ready after about 12 to 15 weeks of flowering. It is a good producer with decent sized resinous buds that require very little trimming. This plant is a pleasure to grow. It has one of the best aromas of any plant I have ever grown. With cool temperatures, it goes through color phases from green, almost red, purple, and then to a very dark purple, almost black. This all depends on conditions, of course, including fertilizer levels. The taste is O.K., but nothing special.

This strain is a rare combination where the indica component makes it sturdy and easier to grow, but has all the qualities of the high from the sativa side. I believe the stains used to create this were Purple Zacatecas and an indica. I have also read that the Purple Zacatecas in it comes from Big Sur Holy Weed. Others swear this is a Haze individual crossed with indica. I have seen pictures reportedly of Purple Zacatecas that look like the exact color of this SAGE cutting when it is in a red color stage of it's life cycle. Then again, the ACE Seeds website has a picture of PHT that has that red color also. If the cross with PHT reinforces that color and possible Haze component, it would not bother me in the least.



Where the SAGE cutting really shines is the quality of the high. I would describe it just short of euphoric. It gives me a "life is good" feeling. There is a complete absence of any narcotic component which I very much appreciate. At my standard test dose, three hits, it creeps into the trippy arena. I use the word "creeps" for two reasons. At three hits it is just a bit trippy, and the trippiness comes on some time after smoking, as much as an hour afterwards. This weed has quite a bit of a delay before the peak high. The delay in peak effect, and the trippiness are enough to remind me of the best weeds I have ever smoked, for my personal preferences.

My ideal weed would be significantly more potent. It would be solidly trippy, euphoric, and mildly electric. Not electric so much that it is excessively edgy or induces paranoia, but enough that it gives me an exciting ride, or a bit of a thrill factor. This is the goal of all my testing, breeding, and modifications of growing conditions.

Here are some pictures of the mother and the buds produced by her:




These buds have had a very long cure. They get a bit golden brown, mauve, still retain a bit of red, and some dark purple. These pictures make it look a bit too golden because of the yellowish light they were under when I photographed. In the close up picture, I think you may see some red in the leaf veins.

I hope this thread will be of interest to people purusing some of Ace's offerings. It is my belief that the true test of a good strain is in the children that are produced.

My next posts will be descriptions of the males used to pollinate these buds.

Best Vibes,

ThaiBliss

Life is good

Life is good

The Sage x G.T sound's good ThaiBliss, when I smoke my Golden Tiger I get the life is good feeling and get very smiley.
The P.H.T cross sound's good too, I think you will end up with some interesting plant's with trippy effect's.

Man those are gonna be some fine sativa ladies.
Good luck

Best vibes bro!

PHT Father

PHT Father

Greetings,

The Purple Haze x Meao Thai (PHT) father that was used is a strain that I have never tried. I attempted to sprout 4 seeds which failed to germinate. I threw in a couple more seeds into the same seed pots, and I got one to germinate. It turned out to be this beautiful male. The picture in my avatar is it as a seedling.

I was disappointed in the germination rate as I used up almost half of my seeds and I only got one male. After some thought, I decided that this could be a blessing in disguise. I love the beauty of it, and because it may be a rare example of this variety, I definitely want to test its children. I think finding a male that breeds children that I like is more valuable than having a female that smokes good, but I don't know if it breeds well. In other words, it is forcing me to put in the hard work that I may otherwise be too lazy to do.

Before anyone jumps to the wrong conclusion, I want to say that sometimes seeds don't germinate well due to conditions at the time. It does not necessarily mean that it is a bad batch of seeds. I'll know more about that if my next attempt at germination has similar results. In addition, if I get even only one very special plant from a batch of seeds, then I am very fortunate and it is money extremely well spent.

I chose to buy PHT because the staple strains of my sativa influenced childhood were various Columbians and Thai Stick. Thai Stick was my favorite of all, and the fact that Ace has a lot of strains crossed with the Meao Thai made me think that this company is the place to order from, and the Meao Thai is highly regarded.

Before I blather on forever, here are some pictures of the PHT male being discussed:









Believe it or not, this is all I have to say about it for the time being. Except one more thing... Thanks to Ace Seeds for making all these sativa strains available for us to play around with, and for hosting this thread in the Ace Seeds forum.

All the Best,

ThaiBliss

GT Father

GT Father

Greetings,

I'd like to describe for you the Golden Tiger father, but first a bit about my experience from the line. I have grown and smoked two females from this line. The first one I grew, I have doubts that I let it ripen enough. It did turn out good. My first impression was that it was close to the overall quality and potency of SAGE, but different. It had a bit more rounded of an effect. It was not as clear and smooth as SAGE, but at the same time, it had an energy that SAGE does not have. It's like it was more electric and narcotic at the same time giving me a vibration from bouncing back and forth between the two at an extremely high rate of speed. I decided to purge it from my garden because of the legal pressure to keep my plants to a minimum. It also did not produce as well, look as beautiful, or have the aroma that SAGE has. I think it may have tasted better though. Overall, it was a very tough call between the two, and I'm looking for the "slam dunk" better individual.

The second female was an amazing grow. This plant was really impressive for its vigorous growth of big buds, and amazing complex aroma. It also had fairly short internodes for a plant with such skinny leaflets. The aroma still intrigues me. It has changed so much as it has been curing. I think the first female actually tasted better. Funny how aroma and taste don't always translate to each other. I went ahead and let her go due to the narcotic side of the effects that were too much for my taste. I may have made a mistake, since so many people say to wait for 6 months of curing to decide. I'm a bit overdue to sample again. I did stick my nose in the jar, and it is now very kerosene or diesel fuel smelling. I had an inkling of this smell a couple of time, but now it is dominant.

The male that I saved and used to pollinate looks and smells much different than the other two females I grew. This one sprouted much later than the others, and looked far more sativa like as a seedling. It wound up not having the big internode length of the first female, but it has longer and skinnier leaflets. The stem is not as sturdy as either of the first two, and the growth is less vigorous. The most dramatic difference is the aroma. The first to females both had hard to nail down smells. I'd say they included carrot, earthy, cinnamon, leather, spice, and in the case of the second female, kerosene. The male that I kept has a peppery, metallic, and musky/fishy smells. Very different and more reminiscent of the Thai from my youth. The other males I have found all looked similar to the second female I grew.

O.K., time for pictures, so here is the male:



Just for fun, here is the second female I grew:



Cheers,

ThaiBliss

Seeds

Seeds

One more quick post today, as I have a few pictures of the seeds. They are still being harvested and are drying out. It's sticky fingers time! This will be the first taste of SAGE finger hash yet. I'm looking forward to it, as I think it will be exceptional.

Here are SAGE seeds from the Purple Haze x Meao Thai (PHT) father:


Closer View:


SAGE seeds from the Golden Tiger (GT) father:


Closer View:


I don't know if you can see it, but I think the seeds from the GT father have a bit of a red hue to them, and are very slightly more striped. I'm splitting hairs here, but I did not expect to see these differences, being that the mother is the same cut. They were from two different grows and have been in buds that are curing for different lengths of time. In reality, the seeds themselves are from different genetics even though the mother is the same. I did expect size differences, that I don't see, since there was a light dusting from the GT father, and heavy dusting from the PHT father. I have a ton of those PHT seeds!



O.K., way to much time on the computer, so I'll just wish everyone all the best.

ThaiBliss

Great thread ThaiBliss It's always a pleasure to see talented growers breeding with our genetics for their own homegrown projects.

From what you describe, i think you are right, the Golden Tiger male sounds more thai influenced, probably it's more suitable for the type of effect you want to achieve.

Purple Haze Thai is more stable than Golden Tiger and therefore more predictable when it is outcrossed, the purple/pink colors and its exotic blackberry liquor and incensey aromas are dominant in crosses, but usually the lanky structure and long flowering time too.

Im not very familiar with SAGE, i smoked it a few times in holland but i have never grown it. I think is a solid haze x indica cross, at least smelled and smoked like it, very incensey but with dense resinous indica flowers. I'm sure your SAGE mum must be a good one to be a keeper in your garden I always been curious about the outcome of crossing a good golden tiger or ace haze thai with a selected dutch haze hybrid. Let's see what happens, best wishes for the project!

ThaiBliss said:

Greetings,
...
It's like it was more electric and narcotic at the same time giving me a vibration from bouncing back and forth between the two at an extremely high rate of speed.
...

Cheers,

ThaiBliss

Click to expand...

Great description of the African high! That's exactly how I felt on Durban Poison. For daily use I much prefer the Hazes (like you describe your SAGE), but the wild trip also has its place in the stash And by the way, you can mix them in different proportions, 50%/50% can give you something that is clear like the SAGE but with that pushing vibrating energy from the GT.
Interested to see the results and variations in this Spanish-Dutch polyhibrid. Good luck!

Dubi - Thanks for stopping by, the kind words, and best wishes.

I like the quality of the high from SAGE as much as I liked it in the Bangi Haze. In other words, I like it a lot.

Yoss33 - Thanks for the interest. I'm already seeing some interesting variety in the tiny sprouts that just came up on the Golden Tiger side. Now, if I can just get those Purple Haze Thai babies going. I'll post some pics when I have them both going.

I'm already looking forward to the posts of your next pics in your Zamaldelica Outdoors thread.



All the Best,

ThaiBliss

almost forgot ThaiBliss! If the rest of the Purple Haze Thai seeds dont germinate correctly please let me know and will send you a replacement pack.

Variables, Variables!

Variables, Variables!

dubi said:

almost forgot ThaiBliss! If the rest of the Purple Haze Thai seeds dont germinate correctly please let me know and will send you a replacement pack.

Click to expand...

Thanks Dubi, I appreciate that.

Here is an update to the progress of the seedlings. Unfortunately for the intent of a fair test, things have taken a turn for the worse, which is going to introduce variables that are going to affect the test. The good news is that an individual appeared that has got my radar lighting up.

I initially planted about forty seeds of each cross and nearly all of the seeds from the Golden Tiger (GT) sprouted. Only four seeds from the Purple Haze x Thai (PHT) sprouted, but three of them came up pointing in the wrong direction which exposed roots. I was only able to save one of the three that did not know which way is up. I have since put hundreds of seeds in a wet paper towel in an attempt to resupply my pots. I used the paper towel method to monitor them. As they start cracking open, I am planting them one at a time with the root tip pointed down. I’m still concerned because the seeds seem to be cracking, but I’m not seeing much root extension.

I was in a hurry and did my first planting as soon as the SAGE buds with the PHT pollen were dry enough to crunch up and harvest the seeds. I did not slow dry like I normally do, since the buds were so heavily seeded that I knew I was going to make hash from them. I also did not thoroughly dry, refrigerate, and age the seeds as I normally would.

The bottom line is that there will be significant differences between the two plantings. I have had more selections to choose from for the GT seedlings, and/or the PHT will not be the same age/maturity as the GT. Due to the ever present pressure to reduce plant counts, I have already been culling some of the GT seedlings.

Out of forty GT seedlings, I have culled them down to six individuals. I removed the ones that had the fattest leaves, and looked like they had some indica influence from the SAGE mother. Four of the six left look like the typical GT seedlings that I have sprouted in previous grows. If I really wanted to do a truly fair test, I’d probably choose a typical example to flower and smoke. But, the opportunistic side of me says that due to plant count pressures, I should have a close look at the odd ones that have presented themselves.

One of them still looks a bit indica due to the slower growth, and the possibility that the leaf petioles are shorter than most. The interesting thing is that when the first true leaves were tiny, they appeared to be curled inward towards the main leaf vein. It is like the leaves could not decide if they were leaves or flower bracts. Some of the most resinous plants I have ever grown have had the small leaves of the buds curling up in a similar fashion as this seedling did when the leaves were first coming out.

The one that really interests me is the one that looks the most sativa like. It has the skinniest leaves, and is a bit more delicate looking than the other typical and robust looking ones. The contrast between this individual and the rest of them is similar to the contrast of the GT father was to its siblings. I assumed that this was the more Thai leaning side of its ancestry. This super sativa looking seedling appears to have acquired its genes from the sativa side of the SAGE, and looks most like the GT father.

The two PHT x SAGE individuals both look like the indica side of SAGE has affected them. I hope that more sprouts come up quickly so I can have more to choose from.

Here are some pictures. The first is the whole group together. You can see the typical looking GT ones in the left rear area. The indica leaning plant from the GT father is left front. The super sativa looking plant from the GT father is middle front. The two on the right are from the PHT father:



Here is the indica leaning GT x SAGE individual:



Here is the super sativa looking GT x SAGE individual that I will not be able to resist growing if it turns out to be female:



Here is a close up of one of the PHT x SAGE cross:



Happy Growing Everyone,

ThaiBliss

A member named Madjag visited my SAGE album and commented on one of the pictures. After looking it, I think it is much better than the one that I posted above.

Here it is:

The leaflets are skinny, at the base, and fat at the same time:


I got a couple new sprouts from the PHT father. Hoping for a few more.

Cheers,

ThaiBliss

Good luck with the project. Gonna be interesting to see how those turn out.

Very diesel like leaves on that SAGE.. Never had that one but heard some good things.

Thanks for the very detailed thread!

Update

Update

It looks like I finally got my seed sprouting act together. I got a sprout in every pot for the Purple Haze Thai father, and even had some extras to choose from. I'll post a pic next week when they get big enough to be worth looking at. I further reduced the Golden Tiger offspring to just the three most sativa looking ones. I'm surprised at just how dominate those indica genes are. Since the mother had a very good high, I'm hoping that gets passed on to the children.

I thought I'd talk about why I'm even here on ICMAG and ordering seeds online. It's because I'm frustrated with the local grow scene. It used to be not uncommon to come across some powerful weed with old school sativa effects, trippy; energetic; euphoric. I believe the original reason why indica was introduced was to reduce the harvest date. It was also very different in that you could feel the effects almost instantaneously, which made it feel potent. I believe people also fell in love with the aroma, size, and density of the buds. Honestly, there is a lot to like about it. But I think over time, people forgot about the sativa qualities that make it so special. I think people became accustomed to the new type of high that they got with indica. Now that it is somewhat legal to grow for medicine, and the plant counts are restricted, it is all about size. Hybrids are the thing. People are growing 10 to 12 pound monsters. If you Google Earth Southwestern Oregon, you can find them! People around here use light yellow hay as mulch around the base of the plant to reflect sunlight back up to the plant.

Anyway, about 8 years ago I found a devastatingly potent Neville's Haze individual that had an effect very much like the Thai Stick of my youth. It actually may have been even better than the old Thai Stick because it had less nervous energy, perhaps Thai Stick's only fault. It was also more euphoric, and had these distinct phase shifts to it like magic mushrooms. The problem with it was that it was exceedingly difficult to grow indoors, and produced almost no buds. I was literally trimming off clusters of 4 to 8 calyxes. I needed to find something that was worthy of crossing it to that would reduce the ripening date so it could be grown outdoors in a greenhouse, or produce some buds indoors. I have had a handful of strains that I had grown in the past that would have fit the bill, but I lost them for various reasons. I searched for 7 years and could not find anything locally. In that time I got to smoke only one that I believed was good enough, but the holder would not part with it.

I gave up. I did some crossings with the best I could find, Burmese and Hawaiian Haze. With each outcrossing, I selfed back to the original. I actually did two lines of this using different Burmese and Hawaiian Haze individuals for each line. I then killed off the cut because I was keeping it without growing it. I was too busy looking for a worthy mate. When I did grow it, I was spending hundreds of dollars on electricity over 4 months to get less than a half ounce. When I realized I had not grown it in 6 years, I killed it.

I now have been alternating my grows by looking for through those seeds I made, and looking through strains that I have been purchasing online after researching them on ICMAG. Thank goodness for a few sativa lovers like Dubi and Charlie that are giving me some hope. That is why I'm searching through Golden Tiger, Purple Haze Thai, and Bangi Haze. I also am waiting for Zamaldelica to arrive.

I have renamed my Neville's Haze lines to Acapulco Thai (AT) because I believe they lean towards the Thai and Mexican heritage of Haze. I had heard Haze had Acapulco Gold in the mix, and this freaky Neville's Haze individual was very, very yellow green looking. The "gold" strains of yesteryear actually looked yellow to me. The leaves were very skinny, and the stems smelled like Thai to me. I once found a strain on IMAG posted by Motaco that looked very much like my AT cutting. He called it Sugarcane and said it was a lowland Oaxacan. I looked on a map, and Acapulco is a lowland city close to the border with Oaxaca.

Unfortunately, the only thing that I have accomplished with the AT seeds I have made is to make the leaves fatter, the stems marginally stronger, and reducing the flowering time. I have not found any that are nearly as potent as the original Neville's Haze individual. They are keeping the golden color and sometimes the aroma. Here is the latest AT cutting that I am testing. The bud is curing now:




Here is Motaco's picture of Sugarcane:


Motaco took a picture of the buds grown outdoors. Mine looked incredibly similar, same loose structure, same color, but indoors my AT did not branch, and were only about a tenth of the overall size. If mine got this big and bulky, I would have been happy:



Man! I can really go on and on... I need to learn to just let it go.



Happy Growing,

ThaiBliss

Hashish

Hashish

I should have called this thread the ThaiBliss Soapbox.



I do have a picture to post though. I converted most of my Bangi Haze, Golden Tiger, and SAGE buds into hash. I think this will make a very good blend. It needs a couple of weeks to dry. Here is what it looks like today:



All the Best,

ThaiBliss

The seedlings are starting to look healthy, and I have narrowed them down to a small pool of individuals to choose from. I have two Golden Tiger x Sage seedlings, and four Purple Haze Thai x Sage. The PHT ones are almost two weeks behind due to a sprouting mishap.

Here is my favorite GT baby:


Here is my favorite, so far, of the PHT babies:



I am narrowing them down by selecting the ones that look the most sativa-like. I'm hoping that this will allow me to test the ones that lean towards the fathers. The secondary considerations are healthy ones free of any obvious mutations or flaws. I'm sticking my neck out there a bit by having so few left. I think that I still have a good chance at getting females because the ones that I have chosen also have good lower branch development compared to the others in the pool to chose from. I have found from past experience that the branchy ones tend to be the females. I'm crossing my fingers.

They all have strong indica-like characteristics. I would not have thought that it would be so considering that they are at least 75% sativa. I don't mind indica traits, except for anything that gives me couch-lock or a burned out feeling like I need sleep.

Cheers,

ThaiBliss

Good luck with these crosses. ThaiBliss. Should be excellent given the genetics.

I think I like the pic of your favorite GT even more then the grate hash pic good work smoke some for me plz

SirLikesAToke said:

I think I like the pic of your favorite GT even more then the grate hash pic good work smoke some for me plz

Click to expand...

Thanks Sir,

I have some newer photographs for viewing. First, the Golden Tiger x Sage Favorite child:


A close up of one of the leaves:


I have a new favorite of the Purple Haze Thai x Sage cross:


And a close up of the leaf:




I'm really excited about the looks of this PHT x Sage seedling. It is by far the most sativa looking plant of all the seedlings I looked at. I see almost no indica traits. It is very lanky and has that sativa green glow. It must have picked up genes from the sativa side of the Sage mother. I think it is even showing some Thai-like characteristics. I can't stop watching it grow. If it turns out to be male, I may even keep it for another offspring test grow. I'm wondering if Dubi thinks it reminds him of Meao Thai, or perhaps the Haze parent of Sage was a Thai leaning individual. This would certainly explain why I like the Sage mother so much.

The Golden Tiger x Sage seedlings are getting large enough to re-pot safely, but I'm going to leave them in the small DeePot tubes in the hopes that the root restriction will cause them to throw a pre-flower sooner rather than later. I'm always under pressure to keep the plant counts down.

Cheers,

ThaiBliss