Ebb & Flow problems - plants seem small

newbie2006 · Jan 12, 2011

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=26269

What's wrong with my plants? :tiphat:

2 weeks veg, 1 week into 12/12. So small!

Lucas formula + AN Big Bud, AN B-52 and AN Bud Candy put in yesterday.

EC about 1.0, was 1.4-1.6 in veg.

Strains are Barneys Farm L.S.D on side #1, Whitelabel Super Skunk on side #2 and one big Zamal x White Widow in the middle and three L.S.D cuts on the #3. (moved the cuts on the other side of the system and replaced the smallest Super Skunk from side 2 to the other corner close to picture)

Should I add a P-K additive?

They seem so small! :moon:

That is a 1,5L (50 fluid oz US) bottle.

I wish they would take off...

Ganjagrower1 · Jan 12, 2011

well i am sure everyone is going to tell you the same thing. we need pics of the plants to see what you mean.

newbie2006 · Jan 12, 2011

Side #1

Side #2

Side #3

There ya go. I am pretty sure I posted the album link in the OP but maybe it is invisible, I am pretty sure I made it public folder though..

newbie2006 · Jan 12, 2011

The cut on #2 had tiny roots of a few millimetres in lenght when it went to the system instantly recieving that 1.4 EC nutrient dose...

The cuts on #3 1/3 has rooted, 2 others still rooting.

Rednick · Jan 12, 2011

Fill out the first pages.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

newbie2006 · Jan 12, 2011

How long has this problem been going on? For the whole duration of grow

Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? No

What system are you running? Ebb&Flow

What STRAIN are you growing? LSD, Super Skunk and Zamal x White Widow

What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) Clones

What is the age of your plants? 27 days

How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..) Whole time

How tall are the plants? around 30cm

What PHASE are the plants in? 12/12 been on about 8 days.

What Technique are you using? Ebb&flood, RW cubes on top of 2,5cm (1 inch) hydroton layer

What substrate/medium are you using? RW and hydroton

What is the Water temperature? 18-20C

What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy? White 99,5%, some brown somewhere but the enzymes are hacking those parts up pretty quickly.

What Nutrient's are you using? Lucas Formula, fed it week into flower then added AN Big Bud, Bud Candy and B-52 plus Grotek Pro-Silicate and HESI Supervit and Bio Nova BN-Zym enzymes. Plus in veg I foliar fed Very High Output from Advanced Nutrients, according to dose almost but in the last 3 days of veg I gave them already the 1200ppm full dose sprayings..

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? According to directions

How often are you feeding? The pump is on once an hour 7-10mins

How often are you giving nutrients? Every feeding

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? About 36 hours ago

What order are you mixing your nutrients? First the lucas, then the rest, last pH down adjustments.

What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? 1.4-1.6 in veg now 1.0 EC.

What is the pH of the "Tank"? 5.4-6.5 adding pH down every now and then when it gets too high over a period of a few days.

How often are you testing your pH/PPM/EC/TDS? Every few days.

Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equipment? Yes.

When was your last watering? An hour ago I think

What is your water temps? 18-20C

When was your last feeding change? Roughly 2 days ago

How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients? Plan to flush in 2 weeks time, haven't flushed yet.

What size bulb are you using? 730w sulphur plasma, LG, 4500K

How old is the bulbs you are using? Few months

What is the distance to the canopy? about 100cm or 3 feet, but got some chain to hang the light about 50cm or just under 2 feet from the plants.

What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? 30-50%

What is the canopy temperature? 22-24C

What is the Day/Night Temp? 20-25C

What is the current Air Flow? Free flowing ventilation, door open to growspace

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? No mechanical ventilation

Is the fan blowing directly at plants? Occasionally

Is your water HARD or SOFT? Soft

What water are you using? Tap

If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap? 0.2 EC

Are you using water from a water softener? No

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched? No

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? No

Are plant's infected with pest's? No

.......

There ya go, that was an awful lot of questions.

Hopefully now you get a better picture! :wave:

Aerohead · Jan 12, 2011

Dump all the additives right away and mix your Lucas 1/3 strength of where it is right now. It is very easy to stunt growth with too hot of a mixture without seeing signs of burn. You are running more nutrients right now than I would in full flower. It's easier to recover from too little than too much ferts so run them weak until you know your plants. It would also be helpful to know your lighting before anyone can advise on slow growth.

Your nutes are wayyyyyyy too strong at this point of the grow...

newbie2006 · Jan 12, 2011

Yeah I know I have been going on high EC's and lots of nutes, but last time I ran Lucas at 50% until this stage, and then cranked up it up to full 100% Lucas, and the plants stretched wayyyy too much to get good yield. These are the cuts of those.

So thats why I am running these liquids, to control the explosive growth!

You think its a bad idea?

Aerohead · Jan 12, 2011

Well, stretch is usually from lack of light or too much N. I would simplify things if I was you and drop down to a very mild fert mix. I don't know enough about your grow environment to be sure but looks like too high EC.

Good news is it's just slow growth, your plants don't look bad, happens to all of us, we recover and growth becomes very rapid, I am sure this will work out soon.

newbie2006 · Jan 12, 2011

Before I added the flowering additives, the EC was at 0.75, so the plants had eaten some off that 1.4-1.6 to start with.

Any other opinions?

Aerohead · Jan 12, 2011

In my opinion, those plants aren't large enough to pull the EC down that fast by feeding, something else is going on. From what you said, you added the additives to slow stretch, seems it worked all too well. Makes sense to back off a bit, What are you using for light???

newbie2006 · Jan 12, 2011

If you read thru those questions I answered on this thread, you'll see this;

What size bulb are you using? 730w sulphur plasma, LG, 4500K

Aerohead · Jan 12, 2011

Apologies, I did read the thread and still missed it. I must say, not familiar with that light at all but the spectrum looks good for veg and the wattage is there. Not enough light was my last guess, I am stumped, I am sure someone else will jump in and help out soon.

The plants look like the will explode when you figure it out, they look healthy.

newbie2006 · Jan 12, 2011

I am starting to suspect macronutrient defiency, as I have been running these liquids for an extended period of time. Maybe I should add more floramicro, but that would result in excess N. Hard choices..

And as I said, I'm getting the light closer in a few days.

HydroCab · Jan 12, 2011

>Is your water HARD or SOFT? Soft<

Could this be the problem? i believe the difference between hard and soft is hard has extra Ca in it and soft has extra Na

if u have a water softener then it could be too much sodium. Unfortunately you cant see exactly what is in ur water without a GC/MS machine...EC just don't cut it

EDIT: lol just saw u stated that u dont use a water softener scratch that... still could be too much Na coming straight outta tap

Rednick · Jan 12, 2011

Whenever I see tri leaves that usually indicates too little light, IMO (or stressed/revegged plant).
See if you can get a report on your tap water, in the US they must do an annual testing, will tell you a lot. Get it from your water provider, or city if you're on municiple supply.
Is r/w getting soaked everytime you flood? If so, that is bad. You want r/w right above the water level to mate with clay, force the roots into the clay.

Also, if you post your problems in the 'Infirmary' you may get more hits.

cocktail frank · Jan 12, 2011

you are trying real hard to kill them girls.
calm down w/ the ferts.

bullseye · Jan 13, 2011

when you put cuts in flood n drain they need to be realey rooted up well like rednick said cubes just above water level if your cubes are getting saturated every time you flood that will cause slow growth pre veg in small cups of coco works great u get exsplosive growth

Ganjagrower1 · Jan 13, 2011

maybe you just didnt veg long enough. give the roots enough time to grow. you are talking about the roots only being so long on the one. you should have a good root zone before you even start to flower. just my opinion.

creeper327 · Jan 15, 2011

First small roots account for small plants.
Should have vegged longer and established better root system.
Mutated leaves usually are from stress to the plant.
Lower ppms and add somekind of rooting solution to res.also maybe bring down flood times

Ebb & Flow problems - plants seem small

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