WTF is w/feminized genetics,

stagger lee · May 6, 2010

Am I missing something? When dutch Passion first released 100% female seeds, they quickly had to change ads to 100% feminized seeds when they realized the grow environment can influence the final sexual outcome of MJ plants grown from seeds... DP built them on the foundation that seeds were either male or female when concieved(sp?)(sexual predisposition) So xx crossed w/xx = xx (right)? so why are growers finding males? Because a stressful grow environment can influence males, even w/ feminized genetics.Greg Greens growers/breeders bible explains this topic so stoners can understand! Marijuana botany by Robert Connell Clark also great source.

With the grow environment having a influence on the plants sex, how have breeders "fixed" this prob? No matter how femseeds are created mother nature has the final sayso right The fact there are so many reported probs w/feminized genetics (whether its the shitty breeders or shity techs) imo new growers would be wise to start w/standard genetics, cause stress is the biggest reason herms pop up and new growers usually dont have dialed in grow ops.And some probs(poweroutage,ect) really are hard for any grower to avoid. Worst thing that can happen to a grower (next to getn busted)is a herm mess. Seen new growers quit trying to grow after their feminized genetics hermed.

Also WTF is up w/new and inexperienced growers thinkn Lowryder is the holy grail of pot?! You would think having a great, favorite strain getting pollinated by hemp/ditchweed would be a bad thing! But I guess too each his own!

DocLeaf · May 6, 2010

stagger lee said:
Am I missing something? When dutch Passion first released 100% female seeds, they quickly had to change ads to 100% feminized seeds

Perhaps because a seed company appeared on the scene called "Female Seeds".

Hope this helps

chefboy6969 · May 6, 2010

I know these days most people who grow want only females and don't wanna pay for what i consider "natural" seeds, i consider fem'd seeds UNNATURAL, UNHOLY even they will be the downfall of marijuana genetics if people don't boycott them soon..it's really a problem i find, these young growers wanna buy a pack of seeds and find 7 or 8 females in a pack, SORRY thats just not what nature intended and in the end the genes suffer..IMHO

I ONLY BUY SEEDS THAT ARE NOT FEMINIZED

peace
Chefboy

Travieso · May 6, 2010

chefboy6969 said:
I know these days most people who grow want only females and don't wanna pay for what i consider "natural" seeds, i consider fem'd seeds UNNATURAL, UNHOLY even they will be the downfall of marijuana genetics if people don't boycott them soon..it's really a problem i find, these young growers wanna buy a pack of seeds and find 7 or 8 females in a pack, SORRY thats just not what nature intended and in the end the genes suffer..IMHO

I ONLY BUY SEEDS THAT ARE NOT FEMINIZED

peace
Chefboy

I believe feminised seeds can also happen naturally in nature as well. or maybe I'm wrong. Some of the best gear me and my buddies have grown came from feminised hybrids. Boycot them? No way Jose!

hoosierdaddy · May 6, 2010

stagger lee said:
Am I missing something?

With the grow environment having a influence on the plants sex, how have breeders "fixed" this prob? No matter how femseeds are created mother nature has the final sayso right?(males,herms,ect) I have come to this old school section,(40yrs old) w/this topic cause any/everytime I post my opinion I get a serious ball breakn from just about ever1.!

Yes, you are missing something. And you get a ball breaking each time because the facts have not changed, and what you have in your head is contrary to fact.

A feminized seed happens from an other wise female plant being forced to produce male stamen, which produce viable pollen. When the pollen used from a forced female, it does not contain the chromosome that is needed to produce a male, so all of the progeny from that mating will be female...due to their genetic makeup.

A seed can also lack the male chromosome because it was the result of a female plant expressing the intersex trait. The otherwise female plant produces male stamen and pollinates another female plant (or itself). These seeds will also lack the male chromosome, but will more than likely produce progeny with a high propensity of carrying the intersex (hermie) trait.

MJ isn't as simple as XX vs XY like in humans...it is more of a XXyX vs XXYY thing....

And environment can only cause a seed to express what it already has in it's genetic map. And yes, if the genes hold the intersex trait, then environment can cause it to show itself, but environment does not change feminized seeds into males. It just doesn't happen like that. If a male happens along, it is a result of the intersex gene taking some prevalence and expressing itself as such.
Exactly as it happens in regular breeding. No difference.

LOL...I wish folks who bring about bad vibes on fem seeds would offer up more than their personal theories of voodoo and bad juju. What a joke.

thaiboxer · May 6, 2010

i am proud to say i have

never grown a plant
like the autoflowering
like the feminized
like the led's
am learning everything through the intranets

the first may sum up why i like these to you but

i think the autoflowering is perfect for a micro newbie
feminized are cool, i will be doing my own CS run someday
LED's are the future, high intensity low power low heat, going to give it a few years to get more developed.
& thanks for all the info!!

Broccoli Head · May 6, 2010

MJ isn't as simple as XX vs XY like in humans

Humans arn't that simple either, 1 in 100 are born neither XX or XY

Broccoli Head · May 6, 2010

LOL...I wish folks who bring about bad vibes on fem seeds would offer up more than their personal theories of voodoo and bad juju. What a joke.

Read some of Robert Clarke's writing on preservation.

HorseMouth · May 6, 2010

Breeding for new and interesting traits, (only feminized, only auto flowering, only purple erc...) is not bad. It would be horrific and terrible if these were the ONLY experiments that were going on, but they are not.
Personally, I like to grow out nice males, and cross them, and re-cross and experiment on my own.
LED's are a smart option for some people, and COULD be the way to veg in the future.
I agree more growers need to read the books that are out there. Mel Frank, George Cervantes, you know the names...
With specific plants like 'lowryder' who knows what floats ppl's boat. It's not for me, but I smoke strains that others don't like so much. (Very strong Indica's for true neck/back relief).
I understand where you r coming from StaggerLee, there is a quantity of mis-information on this site. At the same time, the volume of info I've learned is far more. Seriously, I just ditched all my hoods after looking at enough pics/explanations on this site.
It's like anything else, take the time, read the info, discern what you want, and test out the theories one at a time.
Not all Growers live in their parents basement, I wish we could get over that as a community.

Peace

SkimmingDaSky · May 6, 2010

Feminized seeds are perfect for small growers b/c some don't have the room to grow out regs and have the chance of getting a male.
Also, feminized seeds are not unnatural. If you let a flowering plant flower for a long time, eventually she will try to pollinate herself to carry on her genes.
I also have seen some good LED grows. Some people don't want the heat of HID lights, and LEDs create little to no heat.
Lastly, you don't need to buy a book to learn how to grow.That is the whole point of ICMAG. For growers to share knowledge and tips you may not be able to find in a book.If you go on the grower's forum you don't have to worry about getting advice from someone that does not grow.

danimarie193 · May 6, 2010

i agree with everything you said but the leds. i guess you got to see it to know what they can do.

JackTheGrower · May 7, 2010

Ah.. Nice thread.. I will attempt generating feminized seeds this summer.

I have grown a Hermaphrodite ( seed producing ) strain before. I still have some viable S1's here.

Crossing the original Hermi with Feminized resulted in thousands of female seeds.. never saw one male and no hermi in the two strains I kept.

Now the crossing of the S1's of that Hermi and the F1's of the previous crosses resulted in all male F2 plants. I grew out 5 this last grow and they were all boys! I expected girls.

So how the sexual manipulation works is more mystery than logical. If I can cross a breeders Hermi ( seed production plant ) with feminized and get all girls and cross that S1 of that Breeders hermi with the F1's and get all boys well you see my point.

Now what the ratio will be when i craft some Feminized Tiki jo this summer will be is unknown.

I hope to find out.. I believe we don't know enough about Nature and sexual representation in seeds with some chemical processes to be absolutely sure that all seeds are 100% female even if the process worked before it may be different for some clone or Fn down the line such as my first female seed batch and then an all male seeds batch.

Nature needs to be smarter than humans.

On the Feminizing.. What method is considered the best for creating female pollen?

JackTheGrower · May 7, 2010

chefboy6969 said:
I know these days most people who grow want only females and don't wanna pay for what i consider "natural" seeds, i consider fem'd seeds UNNATURAL, UNHOLY even they will be the downfall of marijuana genetics if people don't boycott them soon..it's really a problem i find, these young growers wanna buy a pack of seeds and find 7 or 8 females in a pack, SORRY thats just not what nature intended and in the end the genes suffer..IMHO

I ONLY BUY SEEDS THAT ARE NOT FEMINIZED

peace
Chefboy

We can say the same for plants not grown under the Sun.

Are we sure we are doing the best for Cannabis only growing under lights?

stagger lee · May 7, 2010

Hoosierdaddy, Im kinda offended you think I brought neg vibes and my opinions a joke.Voodoo and bad juju? I was actually hoping to leave all the neg shit and arguing behind.,So your right and any1 that thinks differently is wrong huh? The only benefit from feminized is a couple males. All the BS,high price,higher rate of hermys,ect... is worth not wasting grow space on a few males. Environment does play a role in determining the final sexual outcome.Stressful environment = more males. good grow environment = more females. Its in several grow books bro. And no I dont believe EVERYTHING I read. But from my own experience, (also in Greg greens growers/breeders bible,Jorgesbible and Robert Connell Clarks) Thats why some growers get all males or all females ect...

Horsemouth I agree w/ya theres alot of great grow info in online forums for sure, just think grow books have a place in learning to grow.

I was wrong about LED's? My only experience w/them was a friend bought a few panels 2yrs ago and was pissed(he already had HID setup but tried em cause the hype! Sounds like theyve improved greatly. PEACE!!

hoosierdaddy · May 7, 2010

Well, stagger lee...you came in as if you were on top of things, and everyone was busting your balls for no reason. I say there is reason, because you seem to not be on top of things. That's all. Nothing personal at all.

There is no higher propensity for feminized seeds to produce more hermie progeny than regular bred seeds. Unless of course you want to site a quote from a book that states as such, and then we can show how the author was wrong, and you were simply believing what you read. In any event, hemies are a matter of selection for both regular bred and feminized seeds, and nothing more.

Stress, which encompasses a whole lot of ground, can only effect the sexual outcome of a plant to the extent of the genetic material it has available to work with.
Two plants that have been selected as true breeding for no interesex trait that are bred together can produce true breeding progeny, and those seeds will not be forced by any sort of stress to change what they were intended to be in the first place.

OPT · May 7, 2010

What's wrong with males!?!?!?!!??! I myself am proud to be a male!

Who wouldn't wanna spew some dusty looking yellow stuff onto white hairs! If i had my choice, I'd be all about it!

With that being said, I still love females more!

OPT

WelderDan · May 7, 2010

I can see the desire for all female plants. You are dropping good money on standard seeds, and I have on very rare occasions had a higher male to female ratio, so I can see the attraction to female seeds.

However, the majority of the time, I usually get 7 to 8 females out of ten seeds. And since I like making more seeds, I'm a happy camper. Since F1's and polyhybrids are the norm with most breeders, the F2 generation always has more interesting phenos anyway. And I get to use those males on other strains, which gives me an even wider gene pool to play with.

Female seeds have a place in the scheme of things.

Same for Autoflowering plants. They work well for people with limited resources (time, space, etc.) As the quality continues to improve, they will become more accepted and I may just give them a chance in the future.

One mans "average potency" is another mans skull thumper.

It's all relative to your specific interests. There is nothing "wrong" with fems or autos. It's a big world, with room for everyone's choices.

RandomUser420 · May 7, 2010

OPT said:
What's wrong with males!?!?!?!!??! I myself am proud to be a male!

Who wouldn't wanna spew some dusty looking yellow stuff onto white hairs! If i had my choice, I'd be all about it!

With that being said, I still love females more!

OPT

A little off topic, but I thought about it while reading the above quoted post. Here goes:

Could you manipulate the plant to give you all male seeds in a similar way that we do to get feminized seeds? Meaning, force a male plant to hermie and produce all male seeds?

I cannot imagine a situation where anyone would want to do so. Just curious if it would be possible.

HerbGlaze · May 7, 2010

RandomUser420 said:
A little off topic, but I thought about it while reading the above quoted post. Here goes:

Could you manipulate the plant to give you all male seeds in a similar way that we do to get feminized seeds? Meaning, force a male plant to hermie and produce all male seeds?

I cannot imagine a situation where anyone would want to do so. Just curious if it would be possible.

Males don't produce seeds they make them by pollinating the female.
Its all up to the female.
50/50 chance.

I could see why people might get all bent out of shape by feminized beans but if so don't get them?

RandomUser420 · May 7, 2010

HerbGlaze said:
Males don't produce seeds they make them by pollinating the female.
Its all up to the female.
50/50 chance.

I could see why people might get all bent out of shape by feminized beans but if so don't get them?

Ah cool. I thought maybe when they went hermie they might have been able to. Cool though. Thanks for the answer!

WTF is w/feminized genetics,

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