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Where to buy/get Finola seeds from?

O

oldchuck

Active member
Veteran
As I'm sure you know Joe, there is more to Cannabis than cannabinoids. My interest in Finola is due to its ability to survive in the north. My god, it races to maturity producing an abundant seed head at 60 NL. It grows in the snow. It's a fine hemp variety in its own right.

I feel the same way about ditchweed. Hardiness and resilience, the plant that beat the DEA without human help.

Mixing things up with high cannabinoid types is, admittedly, just playing around but I think it is a good thing to keep the gene pool stirring. Preserving genetic diversity and such.
 
Only Ornamental

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
Small remark on germinating Finola:
I tried now several things, like wet paper towel, in soil, on soil, greenhouse (February *brrrr*), more light and less light and also pressure testing the seeds and take small or big ones...
What I've seen so far is that the more exposed to light (even weak illumination) they are, the faster and better they germinate. I dug 'em also out to check; obviously I killed quite a few by this procedure ;( .
The wet paper towel and seeds sitting on top of the soil just slightly pushed in and covered with a plastic film works best and makes them crack the shell within a day (greenhouse a lil longer). Also, germination rate is way up that way whereas covered in soil (5 mm) results in low germination and it took over a week to show cotyledons above ground. For the 'in soil version', I think only the pressure tested ones work (mould?) whereas the 'on soil nuts' grow fine even with cracks in the shell.

Anyone observed the same with other cannabis varieties? I haven't so far but have now the suspicion that the RSC Nanda Devi have a low germination rate because of that... could be other reasons as well though. Gonna test it in any case :D .
 
O

oldchuck

Active member
Veteran
Thanks for reminding me to do some more testing, OO. Interesting results. What is "pressure testing?"

My seeds seem pretty uniform in color and size, a few cracked but mostly good looking. I'll try your longer light method. This time I dumped a batch into a petrie dish with 100 ppm gibberellic acid solution. We'll see if a 24 hour hormone bath will help.

Re: oil seed workshop yesterday. An Ontario farmer gave a presentation on his experience growing about 400 acres of hemp in rotation on of a 1200 acre farm since 2009. It was pretty interesting. He grows a monoicous variety. I didn't catch the name but I think those cultivars are combined seed and fiber types. However he said there is no Canadian market or processing infrastructure for fiber so all they sell is seed. Apparently he's making money selling Cannabis by the ton. The numbers for hemp seed, $ per acre profit are better than corn.

What the new farm bill actually allows a state university to research and how remains unclear. Our ag extension people are very interested, somewhat nervous about playing with hemp, and still in the dark regarding what they can do. The state guy overseeing the hemp registry is a bureaucrat who seems to know nothing about Cannabis. But they will register anybody for a $25 fee and let you go for it at your own risk from the feds. The state is authorized to test THC content but they have no plans to do any field testing because they have no facilities or money to do any. So I still dunno how I'm going to handle it.
 
Only Ornamental

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
What I mean with pressure testing is what everyone does with cannabis seeds: place it on the table and push with your finger on it. If it cracks *yammi-yammi*, if not, it's sold or planted ;) . With my Finola seeds it's 9 out of 10 failing when applying the same pressure as with 'normal' cannabis seeds.

Didn't thought that hemp pays off better than corn. COOL!
Gotta go, BBQ's ready (in the rain, darn)...
 
O

oldchuck

Active member
Veteran
One weird tidbit from Canada: It is legal to grow and sell Cannabis seeds for people to eat but it is illegal to feed animals with it. Any logic to that escapes me. I wonder what the seed oil people do with their cake.
 
Only Ornamental

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
It's the same in Switzerland and Lichtenstein ;( . No idea who came up with such a stupid law. Hemp was used for hundreds of years as fodder but now... people could get stoned by drinking milk or eating spareribs (mine were delicious BTW :D ).
I think there's also some sort of bizarre regulation in the EU but don't know more about.
 
G.O. Joe

G.O. Joe

Well-known member
Veteran
There are no cannabinoids inside the seeds; in the long run soy is a better feed, being a legume. It's easy to say that politicians are stupid but it's easier to say some corn lobbyist is most likely to be ultimately responsible for banning hemp seed feed. My tiny ditchweed seeds didn't want to germinate either - Ultrasorb floor dry solved this though perlite probably would have worked as well.
 
Thule

Thule

Dr. Narrowleaf
Veteran
G.O. Joe said:
There are no cannabinoids inside the seeds; in the long run soy is a better feed, being a legume. It's easy to say that politicians are stupid but it's easier to say some corn lobbyist is most likely to be ultimately responsible for banning hemp seed feed. My tiny ditchweed seeds didn't want to germinate either - Ultrasorb floor dry solved this though perlite probably would have worked as well.
Click to expand...

It's likely those seeds are dormant. You can try waking them up by refrigerating them in moist sand. Some might take less than a week to pop, fresh seeds might take months.
 
Sam_Skunkman

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
Thule said:
This is the first time I hear about Charlotte's web. Only ornamental pretty much sums it up. Only that the cbd content of finola is closer to 2% than 5, making the offspring even lower in cannabinoids, not to mention the insane dominance of finola genes. The first cross I ever made was a dutch hybrid x finola, I went all the way with the cross producing hybrids of only 1/8th of finola. The hempy structure and smell were still coming through in most the offspring producing bean pole structured plants.

F2 phenotypes are all over the place, some of them expressing very nice combinations of both thc and cbd. I find 2/1 thc/cbd the most pleasant, this I have concluded by mixing pure thc buds with cbd ones prior to smoking.

In general heterosis guarantees that the F1 generatíon will have a vigour going through the ceiling, but the finola genepool seems to produce healthier offspring with wld indica strains, possibly due to being genetically a closer match. Bear in mind you are creating a true hybrid by crossing the two subspecies of cannabis. Central Asia is mixed as it is, but a tropical genepool most likely never crossed paths with the northern Asian genepool. Such a mix seems to be a bit problematic and often produces freaky growth during the seedling state with leaves not developing correctly.

So, creating a stable high cbd line from finola genetics.. theoretically it's possible but to achieve any kind of standards in potency or bag appeal it would take years and years to achieve anything like Charlotte's web looks like to be.

As a learning experience crosses like these have huge value and can teach a thing or two about inheritance, but if high cbd is the goal there are better ways than finola.
Click to expand...

I AGREE!!!
-SamS
 
Sam_Skunkman

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
The reason Finola came to be was because I selected VIR315 and VIR313 as the two earliest flowering Cannabis varieties in the VIR collection.
I grew them, maybe 100 seeds of each and saw they were almost the same in structure, flowering times, and cannabinoid profiles, this was more then 2 decades ago.
I reproduced each for several years in isolation until I had a kilo of each. Then I mixed the two seeds and sent a KG of 314 to Jace up in Finland, he and his finnish partner did the rest with a little advice from me. My focus was that the VIR 313 and VIR 315 were yielding up to twice the yield of seeds per hectare of any registered hemp variety and they could be grown outdoors up North, and they had very low THC, as well as a better GLA profile for humans then any other hemp seed on the market.
I was busy with other Cannabis work and did not have the time to devote to VIR 313 & VIR 315 so I passed it on to Jace to see it happen, I knew it was a winner....
He lived in Finland, perfect for the work to reproduce large amounts of seeds.
-SamS
 
Slim Pickens

Slim Pickens

Well-known member
Veteran
Thule said:
This is the first time I hear about Charlotte's web. Only ornamental pretty much sums it up. Only that the cbd content of finola is closer to 2% than 5, making the offspring even lower in cannabinoids, not to mention the insane dominance of finola genes. The first cross I ever made was a dutch hybrid x finola, I went all the way with the cross producing hybrids of only 1/8th of finola. The hempy structure and smell were still coming through in most the offspring producing bean pole structured plants.

F2 phenotypes are all over the place, some of them expressing very nice combinations of both thc and cbd. I find 2/1 thc/cbd the most pleasant, this I have concluded by mixing pure thc buds with cbd ones prior to smoking.

In general heterosis guarantees that the F1 generatíon will have a vigour going through the ceiling, but the finola genepool seems to produce healthier offspring with wld indica strains, possibly due to being genetically a closer match. Bear in mind you are creating a true hybrid by crossing the two subspecies of cannabis. Central Asia is mixed as it is, but a tropical genepool most likely never crossed paths with the northern Asian genepool. Such a mix seems to be a bit problematic and often produces freaky growth during the seedling state with leaves not developing correctly.

So, creating a stable high cbd line from finola genetics.. theoretically it's possible but to achieve any kind of standards in potency or bag appeal it would take years and years to achieve anything like Charlotte's web looks like to be.

As a learning experience crosses like these have huge value and can teach a thing or two about inheritance, but if high cbd is the goal there are better ways than finola.
Click to expand...

Only 2% makes the decision to experiment with Finola an easy one.Thanks for saving me a lot of time and frustration.

BTW:Is Ruderalis in the same ratio range,or is it all over the place as well?
 
Only Ornamental

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
Slim Pickens said:
BTW:Is Ruderalis in the same ratio range,or is it all over the place as well?
Click to expand...
Depends on your definition of 'Ruderalis'...
Cannabis cf. ruderalis (aka C. sativa endemic in +/- Russia) may be even lower or at least in the same low range like all the other hemp varieties whereas simple ruderal hemp (or hemp gone wild) could be anything.
I repeat myself for the hundreds time: If you're after high CBD, go with hash or charas cultivars, they belong to the species C. indica and hence are higher in cannabinoid content (have a look at The Real Seed Company for some unworked but still great landraces).
 
Only Ornamental

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
The first is, not only in my own experience, a reliable source for Finola seeds. Though, these seeds are meant for food, not for sowing, but germination rate is still high and the plants are viable ;) . Because it is a food store, they don't send a certificate with the seeds either (in France for example you need a certificate of origin or alike to prove that your hemp is of a legit EU approved variety).
Carmagnola is also an EU approved variety and you can buy seeds from several sources (check out the Hemp Seed Hub).
C. gigantea LoL! That's either an obsolete nomenclature or pure marketing. May that be as it is, I can't see anything with the Google Translate thingy and I have no idea about current US laws (which are different from state to state, anyway).
Finola is suited for the northern parts incl. Canada whereas Carmagnola is an Italian variety best suited for a Mediterranean climate (maybe south-central America).
 
O

oldchuck

Active member
Veteran
To answer the second part of your question, Mr. Cannabliss, according to US federal law all Cannabis is illegal, no hemp exemption except.... this year... a Farm Bill amendment permits university agricultural research to grow hemp in states where legislation permits hemp cultivation. So, no, you can't grow hemp in the US. But a number of states permit it and an unknown number of growers are doing it. What state are you in, Cannablis?
 
Cannabliss420

Cannabliss420

Member
thanks to both of you. im in lovely Southern California :) i remember seeing something in the news a few months back stating the ban on Hemp was lifted but hadnt looked too much into it. thats unfortunate that its not legal to grow hemp yet (arent some farmers starting to try to grow hemp in CO and WA?), but at least a few plants will be covered under our MMJ laws :p it has always interested me (along with other kinds of industrial agriculture) but i never really took the time to look at people GROWING hemp.
 
Cannabliss420

Cannabliss420

Member
Quote from wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis

Additional Cannabis species were proposed in the 19th century, including strains from China and Vietnam (Indo-China) assigned the names Cannabis chinensis Delile, and Cannabis gigantea Delile ex Vilmorin.[46] However, many taxonomists found these putative species difficult to distinguish.
Click to expand...

also this book had some info-

http://books.google.com/books?id=gC...Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=cannabis gigantea&f=false

so yes it was scrapped :) along with all the others

some more info from wiki-

In 1924, Russian botanist D.E. Janichevsky concluded that ruderal Cannabis in central Russia is either a variety of C. sativa or a separate species, and proposed C. sativa L. var. ruderalis Janisch. and Cannabis ruderalis Janisch. as alternative names.[27] In 1929, renowned plant explorer Nikolai Vavilov assigned wild or feral populations of Cannabis in Afghanistan to C. indica Lam. var. kafiristanica Vav., and ruderal populations in Europe to C. sativa L. var. spontanea Vav.[32][46] In 1940, Russian botanists Serebriakova and Sizov proposed a complex classification in which they also recognized C. sativa and C. indica as separate species. Within C. sativa they recognized two subspecies: C. sativa L. subsp. culta Serebr. (consisting of cultivated plants), and C. sativa L. subsp. spontanea (Vav.) Serebr. (consisting of wild or feral plants). Serebriakova and Sizov split the two C. sativa subspecies into 13 varieties, including four distinct groups within subspecies culta. However, they did not divide C. indica into subspecies or varieties.[27][48] This excessive splitting of C. sativa proved too unwieldy, and never gained many adherents.
Click to expand...
 
Only Ornamental

Only Ornamental

Spiritually inspired agnostic mad scientist
Veteran
Hi Cannabliss,
Do you want to grow hemp indoors our outdoors? The former will be a bit tricky... for the latter, southern European varieties should work. You could test several varieties, IF you happen to have a friend over in Europe who could get you a bunch of FREE samples from the IPK Gatersleben ;) . Or try some ditch weed; that one might be nicer to look at because most fibre hemp varieties are just a 3-5 meter stalk without much branching.
Thanks for the nomenclature lecture. Though, I'm well aware of it and stick to my statement that whatever you find under the name C. gigantea today is either obsolete nomenclature (like old accessions from a gene bank) or more likely plain marketing ;) .
 
Cannabliss420

Cannabliss420

Member
hemp indoors wouldnt b ideal but im sure one plant would b fun. if i did, it would probably be outside (keep the indoors space for the meds :p ) as nature intended it to be. and thanks for the recommendation on the strains for my local area. would the carmagnola fall into that category for my area? the IPK Gatersleben huh? i will look into it :) thank so much for the info.

and ya i thought those links were pretty interesting as they explained what happened to those nomenclature terms. i was thinking though, if Cannabis Chinensis was hemp from china and Cannabis Gigantea was from Indo-China (vietnam, thailand, etc)... then do u think they were originally looking at a very large growing Thai-like specimen? as theyre huge growing sativa's, do you think thats where they got their name of "gigantea"?
 
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