climate change

50YardLine said:

Al Gore said during his Nobel Peace prize acceptance speech. He actually said as soon as 2013. I wouldn't think you could get a Nobel peace price if the scientific community didn't agree. Obviously your mistaken.

So, the question begs to be asked again. What percent of those ice caps have melted? Even 10% should equal 20 ft higher sea levels right? Obviously your mistaken again.
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Click to expand...

this is you creating your own universe with false reasoning
that Al Gore was awarded a peace prize is not climate science
take away Al Gore and climate science doesn't change
now, you have a stronger argument in regards to political views
but politics isn't climate science
on your 2nd point, it's plain that math is not your strong point

10% of 200 is 20 right? Why is my math bad exactly? I hope this was more sarcasm......And if you really want to calculate that out, you would have to take into consideration that I will take vastly more water to fill the last 10ft, than the first 10ft. Like a dam. So really, our water table should be 20ft+ higher than it is right now. Either way, the math is correct, and it's only 4th grade level......come on.

Now your saying the Nobel peace price has nothing to do with the scientific community? Have you ever seen how people get nominated? Your just wrong historically, however with Obama getting a Nobel peace price even though he has been involved in more wars than any president in the history of this country, and Al Gore getting one for climate lies, maybe your right and it's purely political now. However, so is everything about global warming/climate change. They will admit that CO2 causes warming AND cooling. However the main way to bring about reductions from these fools in Paris is to lower c02 emissions. They don't even know if co2 causes warming!!!!!!

Sorry igrowone, I just don't agree with what your saying. Almost everything in your last post is incorrect. From my math, to my supposed false reasoning. If you take away Al Gore, you still have many scientist that believe what AL Gore did. Al Gore is the personification of the global warming movement. Now with all those scientist, they still ignore the satellite data which is the most accurate form of temperature data available. They like to stick to the temps given to them by a temperature reading next to a bbq, or directly in the sun. The best data in the universe isn't good enough, because it discredits everything they are saying.

we will have to agree to disagree
your talking about the politics of science, which is a real thing
there is politics in science, but the science stands on its own
the arctic icecap which floats on the arctic sea can melt and you probably won't see much of a change in sealevel
which makes sealevel changes not so well correlated with the arctic icecap
the greenland and antarctic caps are the worry, the greenland cap showing some signs of shrinking
the antarctic not so much(yet), it's not about how much they've melted at this point in time
it's what they're likely to do in the near future
our icecap brewhaha started over with your remark about the icecaps still being here since the last thread update
i took issue with that because it was implying predictions that were never made, at least by reputable climate scientists

Now that the term global warming had been debunked, after 18 years of no warming, and every other part of the hoax is dead as well, so much that they had to change it to being called climate change, they've started going with the "pollution" angle. Well, we gotta have stifling taxes and regulations and a fascist boot on everybody's neck because "pollution". I don't buy it. Mainly because I have eyes and other senses that tell me pollution isn't a problem.

don't get me wrong, climate change is real.

not out fault though.

and pollution is a very bad problem. we are polluting the ocean on the double quick...
Fukushima is pouring tons of radioactive poisons...ever seen the plastic island in the pacific?

http://www.ecolife.com/recycling/plastic/pacific-plastic-island-garbage-patch.html

carbon credits are a scam and will be a tax on breathing.

i would be more attentive to the reduction in oxygen than an increase in CO2.

during solar minimum we tend to see a reduced magnetosphere (of sun and earth). with a reduced magnetosphere our atmosphere shrinks. this is what causes the more intense weather events we see. all that solar energy interacting with reduced atmosphere intensifies reactions. tempest in a tea pot.

There is a man whose name is Tony Heller. Tony Heller was a computer programming scientist who worked for Intel.

Intel put up a plaque to Tony Heller. The name of it is ''To Tony 'The Debug God' Heller''.

It goes on about how Intel would have been quite a bit worse off without his skills at getting to the bottom of a problem in a database.

Tony Heller downloaded the U.S. weather/climate data and simply added it all up.

The end result is that the temperature of the U.S. today

is identical with the temperature of the U.S. in 1830. Not 1930, 1830.

Again there are a few things I am going to point out about all this, that I think are going to serve you very, very well, as government becomes more and more fixate on tracking and making sure you get permission for
every
time
you even use fire.

I told you before that you can go see the shocked state of government employees when they were talking about how the earth hadn't warmed since 1998.

It turns out, that the earth, hadn't warmed actually as far as British scam leader Jones was concerned, since 1995.

The British system is much different than the American one. If your heritage is that of some of the people who were around and supported the concept of independence some several hundred years ago, you're given one way or another something called peerage. And this means that although there's not room for everybody to be royalty in actual everyday life, the original relatives of people who started the country deserve to not be thrown off the Island when they have a poverty cycle and people go broke. It's to keep the immigrants from all over the world, from simply lifting the Islands from the actual inhabitants.

So this peerage is kind of like you live by another system of law and order. There are things like simply refusing to prosecute you for various schemes people manage to get caught up in, and wind up in, court over.

You and I don't think about this as ''little things'' but it's ''little things'' like scamming a few hundred thousand dollars. It's about simply always being a son of the company founder. Nobody ever;
ever;
tells you pack up your little box full of stuff and be off the property AND they're gonna call security to escort you off the property. Uh. No. You walk for a lot of shit and if you understand how it works it's like... you just don't get in trouble.
But there are times when you can NEARLY get in trouble, and to them this can constitute the family all being taunted endlessly by people simply reminding one who their family is and what they're known for.

Okay so... all this is unscripted and I'm going to explain lots of things about the entire scam so when you're told, you can see for yourself, through the eyes of someone who saw all these people grow up: because they're right around my age, and I saw em all slipping the Ronda Rousey stoppers through the years. All the ''foot to the head'' stuff that stops average
crime. And that's what it is, pure and simple.
crime.
Theft
on scale so large you see how China got their communist ways flipped: bribery on a national scale. The reason the Chinese today aren't invading everywhere is the USA and England and Australia and Canada and Europe had so much money, they simply paid off the entire government of China, and little by little, they bribed into the country and got them back on a primarily capitalist system.

Well - that's how world Academia is told what to do and when to shut up: this is either in or not in the interest of the government and you're not going to do that and keep your job.

Tenure? LoooooL that's hilarious.

So in 2009, somebody who worked at the lab there in England where by international agreement the world's daily weather data is compiled and stored for use in research and history,
just downloaded like a quarter million pages off the email server of something called
The
Met
Office.

Those guys are the real contract signing, money making, go on TV, THE gov't office of weather research for England. They run a high dollar place called CRU and it's Climate Research Unit.

Met Office has several divisions, like a Big BiD'Ness Do. Sprawling out all over the place around town, and there is this one place where all the records are actually in the databases and it's really like the ultimate librarian's job. Everybody there has a phd and there's a card around the neck for everybody. They have people go there to retrieve records and somebody's gotta run it. Phil Jones, little leprechaun looking guy, he runs it.

And James Hansen had taught, a whole slew of guys, worldwide, how to get what are just called research grants. There's a pool of money, you come up with some idea of something to study, people you smile/wink/write/buy lunch for/apply to, say you can have some money or not.
And it's nothin' at all - it's NOTHING - for someone to get 15 or $20,000 so you can do say a six week study in climatology.

And James Hansen had been a big time lobbyist for getting NASA more money. He was always a big mover shaker type, who always said he was an activist, and he helped shape, along with obviously lots and lots of other highly effective, super-accomplisher, academic/government employee/administrators.

So there's the people who get degrees in whatnot - but they then go on to go into, professorships and administration.

These were the guys who were involved, in the original, James Hansen figured-out scam, about getting grant after grant after grant: for supposed ''high quality'' grant research using
hard to reserve time on,
government computing equipment.

Hansen and all the guys in various positions doing this were simply trying to make money by making all kinds of obscure bullshoot claims to people who didn't know if it could be true or not; Hansen, for SURE knew it was a scam all along, because he got caught admitting it s.e.v.e.r.a.l. t.i.m.e.s. in i.n.t.e.r.v.i.e.w.s. between the l.i.n.e.s. Matter of FACT he HAD a DAMNED good POINT and it was that there was a skaJillian and a half going to make nukes to melt Soviet collectivists who said they were gonna take over the world, why couldn't people make room for just peace lovers' research? WtF w/the world? He said.

And he said at times ''sometimes good stuff comes out of research just like this, just people doodling around, it's just costing basically, electricity, and the grants pay for it, so why not?

What Hansen did was two fold: he taught the other so called 'scientists' - the ones Hansen and his administrator friends helped were proteges of the older admin people and were typically as well vetted and half ass honest as you could find - they dedicated their lives to being academics, skating by on living as a math student so they were very, VERY, disciplined people -

Hansen simply taught em to keep the grants flowing by labeling whatever they wanted to look at, as research. Hansen encouraged them to be sorta pro active, in getting research, smiling, kissing babies, sucking ass upward and keeping a very clean record.

So there were about a dozen or two guys at one time, who were scamming some pretty high dollar grants off the top of places like NASA Goddard and The Met Office C.R.U.

And James Hansen, bit tall, physically very present man, he sucked a lot of ass over at the white house with Al Gore the environmental guy. ''Hey what about peace and love and climate, you know, the climate's tied to the environment, yadaYada, we can help each other, yada, and so

when Al Gore lost the run for the presidency he had pretty well tapped out his money.

And he planned to do a come-back tour, closest election in a long time, people liked his brand of super friendly but kinda stiff schmooze, like he was born to be some kind of leader,

and when he wanted to do his tour, - who has the cutest chicks and most money?

Polar Bear loving, government employees, who secretly wish nobody had to do anything but tell everybody else what to do, and dress in special outfits, and shop. Environmentally senstive beautiful people who love puppies and flowers, and have lots of cash, to go see a movie about a sad, sad polar bear who was so warm and cuddly. And speaking of cuddling, my limo has a hot tub, ya wanna f***? This champagne makes me horny.

And on with the life of the very good looking well hooked up almost president of the world.

And he talked about how ''folks - now - I know what you're saying, but these men are some of the
smartest men
in the world. I mean, they have got phds out the yang. They have got more sheepskin than half the tribes of Pakistan, and that's just the ones rolled up in the garage, these hanging on the wall are just the most recent.

And so the whole world, suddenly, had a micro/telescope on James Hansen and Michael Mann and some other guys - Tom Wigley and Trenberth, all their research,

into this ''Green House Gas Effect'' fear that Hansen, was leading the theoreticals in.

Okay - so there's the basic physics part, of this, about the tropopause,

and how the main body of the atmosphere we have
dumps energy, and riiiight there at the edge of the energy dump,

is the verrrrry coldest, most freshly energy-dumped molecules;
they sift down, but as a matter of purely, process of events,
the ones closest to higher altitudes,
are closest to lower-energy realms above them:

they are the ones, which have dumped energy most recently
and therefore,
before they sorta shuffle around gaining small amounts of energy back from the air below, they congregate in a sorta ever-refreshing film of the very coldest ones,
which have JUST dumped energy;

and the settling carbon dioxide, blown up through the vents of storms that punch up to many thousands of feet, as storms belch atmospheric air and heat,

settles back down, eventually sifting down through the nitrogen/oxygen mix - but for awhile, the carbon dioxide, sits there being technically heavier than air, but heated up: and so energized, it bounces around, skittering on top of the nitrogen/oxygen mix at large.

This is the troposphere, at it's very top edge. It's a little bit different energy and gas wise above there,
and it's a little bit different temperature wise, and gas wise,
just below there, and RIGHT there - RIGHT there in that kinda wavering edge, is this cool place, that they used to teach kids about, called the tropopause.

And James Hansen's claim, was that 'he and other scientists thought there may be important changes to the way the tropopause, moderated the heat able to escape the planet.

Well, it sounds really sensible. And - until you got to see the whole thing unravel in front of everyone it seems like maybe people could really believe in it.

But it turns out that in gas thermodynamics you can't SEE it; and when someone is insisting you don't know what you're saying, it isn't quite as intuitive, as one would hope, and for this reason: that and a lot of political bullying -

your child is now taught that if more of the gases,
removing twenty percent of sunlight energy from the surface
before it ever arrives,

were increased till they blocked 25%, of sunlight energy from the surface before it ever arrives,

energy sensors on the surface,

would show it getting warmer: in other words, earth energy sensors would show
more energy arriving,
than when
there was
more energy arriving.

I already ran through this once, but that - really is - the way your kid, will be answering physics questions,
if people aren't stopped claiming the atmosphere
is a heating device for a planet.

The atmosphere, is a cold, gas bath.

It never has been as warm as the surface - and it never can be, because first off

70% of the surface is covered in the atmospheric gas species water: and water,
with it's evaporation phase change,
along with it's second one, when it
returns to the surface faster than if it remained gas -
that water CREATES
one of the unique cooling modes for the planet.

It bears repeating,
that this is the method used in middle school physics, to introduce most adults now, to the concept there are
modes of energy gain,
and
modes of energy loss,

and that these modes,
have names and definitions.

Energy gain, is named warming,
and energy loss, is named cooling.

The reason I am reminding everyone about the silvery sheen to the tropopause is to show - yeah that IS a kind of cool thing - why wouldn't you be taught about it, as part of making people interested in cool stuff
regarding science?

The reason
is that electronic records are very simply and easily purged of inconvenient realities that draw unending questions and pokes about your backward physics;

and one of the extremely inconvenient realities about the tropopause carbon dioxide level

is that it was heavily featured in the early explanation James Hansen was giving

for what he was studying with his grants.

And in truth, when people first heard about what Hansen was saying,
the lower level people who heard about it, were like - sure - why NOT?

Okay see - if you would be able to recall your foundations of atmospheric energy you'd be able to remember energy gain and loss of a planet rotating in a vacuum illuminated by fire from a nearby star

- it has a well known and simple stepped model, which is taught so people - since for EVER - understand the dynamics of atmospheric creation of energy gain, or loss.

See the green house gases create: the FIRST MODE of COOLING
which is DUE to the EXISTENCE
of the atmosphere: by blocking
incoming
infrared light
from the sun.

They block 20% of the light from the sun, deflecting it to space is what they do - uniquely creating, a named mode of cooling.
That cooling is named diffraction cooling.

And the only reason they STOP diffracting MORE
is because they're overwhelmed by the amount of sunlight
that is actually infrared energy.

The green house gases don't comprise but about 3% of the atmospheric mix.

But they block, half the infrared from the sun.
We have about 400 ppm in the atmosphere now. Okay.
So you would have to have another 400 ppm
before they ceased to block any more energy in.

Before it stopped getting: cooler. From them
blocking more infrared than the 20% of sunlight - half the 40% of sunlight that's infrared.

Again all you need to do, is start at the beginning of the scam, and not let someone tell you, 'stop processing thermodynamical steps.''

You have the rotating sphere - in vacuum, illuminated by the light.
No atmosphere. At that point, you have 100% available energy reaching the surface.

As soon as you suspend the atmosphere: the atmosphere's green house gases, stop half the sun's infrared: 40% sun energy's infrared -

and in stopping half that 40%
the green house gases reduce energy to the surface,
20% from Emax.

This has a specific unique name in fundamental thermodynamics: it is the
creation
of the mode of energy loss
named

diffraction loss.

This is why, whenever you go to any green house gas effect heating believing site, they cut you off and won't continue to talk with them about the fundamental story, their fake physics story tells.

The 3% of the atmosphere or so - that is green house gases, stop 20% of sunlight energy ever getting to us.

And in truth, there are some other gases so let's just say 2% green house gases, stops 20%.

Well - if you increased the amount of green house gases then eventually you'd be blocking 21% sunlight energy in, creating MORE diffraction loss.

And this is the part, that drove scientists into a paper printing and authoring frenzy trying to explain what it was they were ''trying to say'' when the entire world came down on them and asked them just....exactly what about the green house gases were a heater?

- because the presence of that carbon dioxide in the tropopause, is one of the gases that causes the unique cooling mode named diffraction cooling of the earth.

So people were immediately saying - what? Why the inversion of the heating and cooling?

Obviously the news getting out about this was considered a big deal. Al Gore, the man who was received by liberals worldwide who loved the environment, had confronted them with the fact their man was fronting a form of scientific fraud and was too dumb to realize how backward it was.

Once Gore's movie came out, the cat was out of the bag.

It wasn't long - two years - before someone got their hands on Michael Mann's algorithms when he accidentally left them online on a server, and it was found out, that they spit out hockey sticks.

Then one of the insiders at the Met Office C.R.U. released a quarter million pages of emails, comprising about a thousand separate email messages, anonymously.

Phil Jones was there admitting it hadn't warmed since 1998, and that it had in fact gotten a tad cooler.

Well - everyone knew precisely what that meant -everyone skeptical about claims of warming, and magic heating gas, was watching the raw data: completely flat, with just a LITTLE cooling was what it had been showing.

It was a huge *bingo* moment for people reading his words, then watching him and Mann, and Trenberth, all arranging a cover up specifically tailored to defame a reporter who said precisely what Jones and they had been saying.

Just like they'd been seen getting person after person, fired from Academic jobs on journals.

Just like they'd seen people talking about doing, when they weren't, talking about destroying that individual reporter.

Mike Mann was directing everyone that they had to put a stop to any talk of it not warming since '98 as Jones was seen freely and laughingly discussing with a colleague by everyone releasing organizational press releases.

There they all were, the very people who had been screaming, ''warming, warming,
you're all cranks,
warming, warming,
you don't understand this it's too complicated,
warming warming:

crying OUT in FRUSTRATION that not only had the COLD kicked in but that they had absolutely NO IDEA WHY
it it wasn't warming.

The hits to the scam just kept coming and coming. Individual Academic institution after institution was forced to mount some kind of investigation into their own funds raising.
The emails showed how they had as top level governmental database keeping academics, bullied, lied, threatened, and simply bludgeoned honest scientists out of the chairs, held by people in the peer review journals.

And yet in spite of the fact a couple dozen were jailed for trading in the worthless ''carbon credits'' Al Gore said he was selling to trade people for guilt at using fire inappropriately,

no one - not one single academic - ever lost his job or was even found doing anything unethical. People were surprised but no one could think of a way to penetrate the systematic lying by Academics who were told plainly that anyone who didn't talk about the warming heater in the sky would be fired.


Phil Jones one of the biggest mouths in the now notorious emails that revealed the widespread, and intrinsically auto-wired corruption -

was famous for saying ''we'll get this paper past peer review even if we have to change what peer review means.''

What that meant, was getting everyone who said a single word against them, fired.

And the reason they were fairly sure they had approval from on high,
is that the reputation
that had gone on the chopping block
was none other than the former vice pres of the US Al Gore.

It was like when Nixon issued his ''moratorium on cannabis research.''
It was obviously nothing but purely crooked science,
with absolutely no other design in sight
than keep the most powerful and prestigious man
in one of the two major political parties of the U.S.

from being viewed as the biggest f****g idiots since the people who claimed pot is like heroin
and that they had the scientific research, to back it up.

It was and is still the size of the Piltdown scandal. Monetarily it dwarfs it, and rivals the ''pot is like heroin'' scientific scam by the Western governments of the world.

The internet has been being systematically purged of information regarding the physics of the atmosphere except for a plethora of ''scientific websites'' simply spewing to the ends of the earth,

that in the air of the atmosphere is a giant heater: and that your using fire, can make that heater more a heater.

But all you have to do is simply step yourself through the foundations of atmospheric energy the way you'd teach a teen ager about modes of energy gain,
vs
modes of
energy loss.

It's nothing short of appalling how swiftly and completely the entire cadre of cross references which discuss precisely how backward the thermodynamics is, were cleaned out.

And yet the very people who first warned about James Hansen's models, said ''James Hansen's models don't even obey - don't even tip a HAT to the laws of thermodynamics.

The very first rounds of scientists to resign from NASA and from major Academic institutions, were the ones who said Hansen's story about the magically warming gases, doesn't obey the fundamental laws of atmospheric thermodynamics.

Several scientists at NASA resigned.
Several Academics in universities resigned.

The entire scam, starts out being one, right there. At the very beginning, where there is this claim, that more of the very material creating the mode of cooling named diffraction cooling will make sensors show more energy arriving,
when their presence at all in the atmosphere creates multiple modes
of energy loss from the surface: first, diffraction losses then convection losses.

These are two unique modes of named cooling specifically due to this class of gases.

And the reason the whole thing has gone on the way it has, is that in the beginning of the scam before Hansen and everyone had their work exposed,

Hansen had been telling people he and other important chemistry/energy phds, who were computer specialists,
had been doing sophisticated research that showed carbon dioxide
in the tropopause
might create a warming effect.

He claimed the bona fides of the origins of it being old, and basically the story simply unfolded, dazed, confused, and infused, with as much vitriol against people who didn't agree it was real, as could possibly be generated.

Now there's a way that you can check some of this. First, you can compare the major sites that discuss the issue.

It's basically a sophist's game. Claim reams upon reams of very slick charts, prove ''the science is sound.''

But when you start looking around at places where people are skeptical of it, you notice that in actual fact, there's quite a limited cadre of people who really, go on and on, about how they think or know it's a scam.

And they're from all kinds of backgrounds.

And then you'll notice the herding that goes on, when you go to the believer sites.

Every single one of them begins to act very arrogant, while desperately running from any kind of actual step through in the thermodynamics of energy.

None of them show anything to do with the actual law of atmospheric thermodynamics, which was actually written for the atmosphere, when all the other laws, proved to not apply to atmospheric thermodynamic behaviors.

There is a gas law by which people claim they 'predict warming' from these green house gases. And they will try to claim to you it proves it, and you're just stupid.

The problem with their claim is the creation of the diffraction mode of cooling by the atmosphere, coupled with the fact that the gas law written for the atmosphere predicts pretty accurately considering knowledge of total energies, the temperature of all the planets.

These people are almost always Stefan-Boltzmannist massage artists who report to you their calculations as well as those of everybody - another ringing flat note they constantly hit - everyone agrees, only you and other dumb people disagree - while they dodge simple, simple thermodynamic realities about - well about the core to their magic sky heater being coolants creating 2 modes and participating in all three ultimately created by existence of the atmosphere itself.

Such obsessions in such an obsessively dirty world. bottomline. It's all smoke and mirrors until you are wading through the filth.

Sorry for hung grammar it's a story that's best discussed, from several angles at once, and it's a sophist's specialty, this story about the magic gas that made a giant heater in the sky.

There isn't a lot of really reasoning with believers in the magic sky heater. They saw Al Gore tell everyone if they'd just break the normal rules and laws, they would be helping save the world from climate danger.

They all saw the benefit to their political parties' clout, to simply band together and purge government employment of people who have the wrong views about what they call science, but which is actually just fraud, wherein people claim they are measuring something they are demonstrably, not measuring, and using their authority as governmentally funded entities to tell you they don't give a s*** about the truth. Truth is power and you will find out.

There are a lot of ways to tell how a scam seems when a government entity is publishing it. First the evidence it might not be agreed with by everyone is scrupulously scrubbed as reception of the fakery gets judged as able to be promoted or not.

Then, to the degree all dissent can't be quelled, simply by claiming you're wrong massive insult and injury campaigns are engineered.

Bigotry is fostered at any convenient moment and by everyone in the group: leadership, followers. Anything to get a bigger group.

Lawsuits, such as the Michael Mann SLAPP suit against the Mark Steyn guy or whatever his name is

Mann's lawsuit against some Atmospheric scientist in Canada -

The outright vandalism and lawbreaking, breaking into private accounts like the ethics director of stanford did to the heartland institute place.

Another thing is strange anger at finding out there is no emergency. They are NOT GLAD the sky isn't a dangerous heater.

They're angry you found out and claim ''if your heart was clean you couldn't say those dirty things,'' like that makes sense in adult terms.

Every other promulgator of it you meet remarks that ''it's a pity you're too intellectually/morally degenerate to be convinced"
to believe in the magic heater.

There will be leaders among them, who will act furious when you show them the green house gases are responsible for creation of two of the three modes of cooling created by mere presence of the atmosphere - they aren't relieved millions won't be traumatized by potentially balmy weather. They're furious you could suggest it.

No one - not one person - will step up and say ''Oh wow that's great I'm relieved.''

The unanimous silence in the face of what's obviously the end of their panic -after all it's been some forty years, the scientists got caught admitting they knew it wasn't warming, it's a good thing, the atmosphere isn't going to overheat, right?

After all doesn't the world actually NEED more heat, rather than more of the deep freeze glacial periods the world MOSTLY sits in? When life on earth is impossible except within a few degrees of the equator, because the planet is under a mile of ice?

Nope, not interested in hearing the sky isn't a devastating heater. No matter what - if it's going to get devastatingly hot it's terrible. If it's not, but then it should because we're really in store for a deep glacial period - we know the world is about ready for one. Maybe rejoice in any warmth and hold our breaths till temps start to drop off like they always
always
repeat, LoL always, do?

Nope. There's one story. The way people use fire is wrong and we have to punish anyone who says we can't use fire the way we want to, to give ourselves and the planet, the best quality of life available.

Nope. Sterilize the poor and stop them from breeding but stop the climate from decimating their numbers.

It's always the same bizarre mix of softy philosophistry and barbarian scorn you haven't joined the ''cool crowd who know about the heater.''

So - you guys are getting your own dose of ''authoritarians learn to use E media to fleece civilization and bankrupt millions more''

the way the 20th century got it's dose of ''pot is like heroin, pot is worse than methamphetamines, if you don't agree you're the devil.''

So you need to kind of learn, just what it is, that's being discussed when they try to tell you, the earth's atmosphere is a heater.

And you need to say it to people like they're convinced, and are about to try to brow beat you into accepting, a completely fake,
religion involving complete fake, physics.

Wow, I thought I wasted my time yelling into the wind.....

thought i'd let the manifesto writer finish his say, we're all due our say
about Tony Heller, interesting reading
Mr. Heller is a birther, he believes the our president's birth certificate was false
ok, that's an opinion
and apparently Mr. Heller is a self proclaimed expert on other planet's climates, such as Venus
he repudiates the current scientific model's of Venus's atmosphere for his own different view point
so an earth climate expert, and in his spare time he rewrites solar system science
no surprise, the mainstream scientific community considers him a joke

The reason the story about the magic heater is a sophist's story, is the sophist has to make you take your eye off the ball at several places along the thermodynamic path, multiple times.

He has to make you tell yourself not once - but over, and over - that hot is cold, and cold is hot, and that ''that's the way it is, in climatology. That's how that's studied.''

LoL No, that's not true. But the thing you will notice many times along the way, is the inversion of claim of cooling vs warming.

When the scam first hit the news, it had certain parameters about it which were designed to seem like they at least, nodded to thermodynamic law.

But the problem with a frigid fluid, washing a warm object, is that - there ISN'T any warming, - it's - all - cooling.

consider if you will, the concept of the simplest thermodynamics test for - anyone.

You simply phrase the question appropriately: you have a sphere and light, sphere rotating in vacuum, light illuminating and warming it. Energy sensors are embedded on the sphere.

Energy in is at maximum, energy out is identical. Modes of energy gain are 1, modes of energy loss are 1, modes of gain/loss in this stage are identical: radiant. Light glows, radiant light warms sphere, sphere warms, gives off light.

40% of the light from the glowing source, is infrared, infrared blocking gas is dosed into an atmospheric mix.

you introduce enough atmosphere to block 2% of energy to sensors on the surface. 2% is kicked out to space, a reduction of energy in. Temperatures at the surface will depict?

They will depict less energy arriving, than when there was more energy arriving.

How much less energy will they depict? They'll depict due to that loss, 2% less energy arriving, than when there was 2% more energy arriving.

So then you up the amount of infrared reflective gas in your atmospheric suspension.

You now are blocking 15% of energy to the surface of the sphere previously illuminated with 100% energy in, then with 2% less energy in, and now, the green house gases stopping 15% of energy to the surface of the sphere through diffraction loss - what will energy sensors depict at the surface?

Sensors will depict more energy arriving, than when there was more energy arriving,

or they will depict LESS energy arriving than when, more energy was arriving. Which?

Obviously energy to planetary sphere starts at 100% and is blocked 2% then 15%, the amount of energy, sensors at the surface will depict arriving, will be 2%, then 15% less than when there was 2% or 15% more energy arriving.

That makes sense, after all: that's how you arrive at the real amount - 20% energy kicked out to space never to arrive here by the green house gases: that's how much gets kicked out.

Okay so sensors will show how much energy arriving? 20% less than full energy.

Energy loss of 20% is cooling - of 20%.

Sensors don't depict more energy arriving on them when less energy, is arriving.

And so then you're left with this question for the believer in the sky heater: what will happen if you suspend enough green house gases to block 22% or 25%?

Obviously more energy can't arrive at the surface, if less energy arrives. It has to make the surface cooler if less energy arrives than before.

And in this, the believer in the magic gas story is caught the first time - Just the first time.

Since the green house gases are effectively responsible for not just one mode but two, the believer in the green house gases being a magic heater core will show up again and again, where cooling is declared to be warming.

After you psychologically brace yourself for watching brutal destruction of simple thermodynamic flow from a hot rock to a freezing turbulent bath, again, and again, and again -

then you have to be ready to deal with the gas law sophists. Gas law sophists claim because they can say 'Stefan-Boltzmann' that proves frigid fluid washing a hot rock,

is a magical heater.

And into the next realm of magic gas: watching hundreds of grown men deny they know anything about the law of thermodynamics
written specifically, for atmospheric energy.

there is too much BS, everyone has assholes and everyone thinks theirs smells way better like flowers, well hate to break it to you but no chance. And everything, from your asshole to mine to the lemmings to the cows to volcanoes and much moreso cars and factories are killling us all and we must take real action against it. Just reforest the globe or out up white sattelites everywhere or paint all deserts in white and that will make a difference. All I know is we got to do sonething here and know and a good start is banning fossil fuels, immediately is preferable but 5, 10, 20, years in lesser prefeence is better than nothing.

I'm just glad I'm at the age where I won't see the full impact in 40-50 yrs. I see changes yearly.

One of the things you always notice, when someone tells you they believe fervently, the atmosphere is a heater, and using fire will make the heater an even bigger heater,

is the nearly complete absence of anyone discussing actual atmospheric thermodynamics in any way that resembles heat handling you ever heard when you worked with thermal energy or with gases.

At this point it really seems like the best thing to do, is bracket what I tell you, between the words of some people whose opinions you can go over and compare: from today,

and from about thirty years ago, when I first learned about the scam.

The first group of people to ever say anything about Dr Hansen's claims of a big CO2 heater in the sky were his co-workers at N.A.S.A. Goddard. Dr Hansen was a prodigious fund-raiser for his pay grade but his co-workers despised him because they said his work - specifically his modeling: was simply not based on the laws of thermodynamics and they also said how.

Here is the rub about his co-workers who resigned etc over his modeling because they said it was outright fraud. For many years men tried to find a way to make all the gas laws operate together, within the framework of observed physics in combustion, refrigeration, and other early attempts at industrialized and controllable gas chemistry applications.

For centuries men got closer and closer to having all the laws interact appropriately with each other, and then the observable physics each law attempted to describe.

When they finally wrote a law specifically for gas energy in the observable world: the atmospheres of the planets, combustion, pressurization, etc -they only included, one single factor, in the formula of thermodynamics that effectively was a major starting pistol for the industrialized age: it was a Ratio and it's closest adherent to using it was named Regnult or something like that; he was French; and the R for ''Regnault/Regnult/Regnalt's Ratio

in the law of thermodynamics written to merge all the gas laws, AND the computational mathematics of them all,

is nothing but the assignment, of every single gas in the atmosphere, from Nitrogen to Carbon Dioxide to Oxygen to Methane to Argon to Radon - in solving computations

involving atmospheric energy
there is a LAW written and the sole inclusion by mankind, to make this a law of thermodynamics, is to take the parameters instruments can measure for gas - instrument readings can be taken for Pressure and Volume and Temperature - and they added of course how much gas you're calculating temperature for - and when you enter the value for ''energy per mole of gas'' being calculated for,
you give
every single one of those gases,
the identical energy containment value if it's an atmospheric air mix.


Temperature is simply how much energy total
is on a molecule which is a completely different thing than the geometry of the way the atoms are stuck to each other.

Hansen's supervisor - before Hansen was promoted over him - was constantly going on about Hansen's simply make believe, physics, when nasa was suffering deep cuts for years.

The name of the supervisor if I recall was Jorgenson. The reason I didn't ever really pay more attention to his name and keep track of him was it seemed for awhile he was going to come out and do the public circuit against Hansen's work but he was old, when Hansen was promoted over him and he retired.

When Dr Hansen was promoted to head of Goddard I was considering going to work for nasa in Houston. I hear Dr Hansen's supervisor giving his speil on NPR, when Nina Totenberg said Dr Hansen refused to talk to them about his upcoming testimoney before congress, when they told him they were going to have his supervisor's criticisms on as well. Dr Hansen said his research was so urgent - he is a weather man or was, his job was to keep the national climate records - that he couldn't spare a half hour or hour for NPR he had to speak directly to the Congress, he was just too busy working on his speech to them.

Now mind you he'd been honing this argument for about ten years, then.

So fast forward to years later. I hear about Al Gore's movie and see the various cons showing up and always kind of wondered who was going to one day, just open up those climate models, who was a working atmospheric energy and chemistry specialist, and spill the beans.

About three years ago a couple of Irish scientists named Ronan and Michael Connolly, came out with a paper. They said they had a hell of a time getting it published and had no idea why, they found people so loathe to even consider reviewing a paper that said perhaps the world wasn't going to end from Dr Hansen's global warming.

The two men were oceanic biologists who had noticed what was said by establishment academics wasn't what they knew of atmospheres involving heat handling by CO2.

They were also, chemistry and electronic engineering teachers, and one of them is a national programming champion from his college days, in Ireland. So they bought a few books on the models and spilled the beans about how shocked they were:

because just exactly as Hansen's supervisor had said many years before, the actual law of thermodynamics,
written for atmospheric energy,
was nowhere to be found; and instead, various loops regarding this and that - but the part that pops out when you're someone who actually heard, decades, and decades ago,

the voice of the man who FIRST blew the whistle about dr hansen's fake physics models -

is the echo of that supervisor telling that reporter, ''His models don't obey the law of thermodynamics written for the atmosphere, they aren't even in there.''

The reporter hearing this asked the man, ''how...would someone KNOW if they .. weren't in there... aren't these programs pretty complex?''

''Complex!? How will they know? THEY WON'T BE THERE.''

So then the man breaks out the story, that I just told you, about how, for hundreds of years men tried to find a factor that made all the gas laws work together so computations matched mathematics. When they finally did find a law that bridged all of them they basically invented the ''Universal Gas Constant'' or ''Ideal Gas Constant''

where all they had to do to correctly deduce how much atmospheric energy was where, was to assign every single one of the gases between Nitrogen and Oxygen and Methane and Carbon Dioxide and Radon and Argon - all, the EXACT same energy value.

Furthermore the supervisor had said this: ''At NASA we know what computers are for, we invented computerized global climate modeling. If we didn't know the laws of the atmosphere we couldn't get our spacecraft in and out past the burn zone of the atmosphere, craft would burn up. We have to know how the atmosphere operates, and we do: our models obey the laws of atmospheric thermodynamics which is why we can predict out days, weeks in advance. It's one of the main costs, of running a launch program; if we could see any further using computer technology we would. Dr. Hansen's models are garbage and they will never predict anything.''

So one of my recommendations is to visit sites that talk about the whole thing from both sides.

So complete was the stampede by academics to keep from getting fired, nearly every academic fawns and harps how the basic science is sound, it's just nobody who believes it can predict what direction a thermometer will go if a light bulb is shined on it.

The farther away you get from government sites though the sooner you see nobody really believes it's true. They mostly though don't talk so much any more about WHY they don't.

I thought I would try to give those of you, who aren't really up to speed about it, a sort of primer about the beginnings of the thing - from someone who was actually watching it all start to unfold nearly thirty years ago when Hansen and Mann, basically just lied, to Congress.

Hansen's supervisor, the one who went on and on, about his models not even having the proper laws of atmospheric energy in them, called Mann, Jones, and the other computer frauds, ''his programmer friends.''

So that is kind of the thirty year overview of how the thing got started, and why it is, that everyone who looks at it for very long, begins to remark about throwing up, and being sick they are even seeing such drivel presented as science, etc.

It is a movement that has been growing now for bout ten years since Gore lost the presidency and did his comeback tour, but the actual lack of any scientific worth to any of it - you really can't believe the amount of purely and obviously fraudulent papers get spammed out there, in exchange for a few thousand dollars in grants - if YOU were a starving administrator and could make forty or 80 thousand dollars by doing an extra six weeks' work at night, writing and doodling, musing about things not even needing to be accurate - would YOU be able to resist? When to do so could men the orthodoxy would claim you weren't 'producing revenue for research, for the department' and simply fire you? Or actually insult your work and name, literally branding you with a name like currently people get for being a ''pot head'' or ''dumb*** stoner'' etc?

It really is - scam, from word one, when they say ''and more of the gases that create the diffraction cooling of 20% would cause energy sensors to depict that
more energy arrived,
than when
more energy arrived.

The amount of sheer thermodynamic bunk is stupendous. What was considered crank science because it simply violates every concievable notion of cold fluid baths, and their relationship to warm objects immersed in them,

has now become a cloaked and nearly impenetrable maze of double talk and dodging innuendo as to why NO one who starts out saying,
''we all know the science is sound'' sounds like they're even sober.

It has gotten to the point that it's a code for ''disregard this paper it will be impenetrably ignorant, lying, exaggerated, drivel.'' You can TELL people are saying it, as a sort of code, at times: you MUST publish or perish, and you MUST publish the orthodoxy's line of bull or you are out of a job.
For real: get off the property, we don't tolerate people teaching the atmosphere is a frigid fluid bath, cooling the earth via mainly the very compounds, claimed to be the 'core' of the magic heater.

< 9th post.

I don't know what is more fucking insane, a bunch of dudes who don't pay taxes paranoid about a carbon tax that has yet to be realized or a bunch of dudes that recreate environments who say that components in an environments do not have an effect on said environment.

Its one thing to be apathetic another to complain about something you are disenfranchised from in the first place.

But the question isn't really anything about Tony Heller. All that's needed is a calculator.

The real key here is that Phil Jones admitted, he knew the real temperature of the globe, and he ADMITTED what it is.

Heller simply happens to be the world class database specialist who did it.

As far as the president being born in Kenya, I googled ''Barack Obama was born in Kena'' like you said do,

and found this:

"Breitbart News has obtained a promotional booklet produced in 1991 by Barack Obama's then-literary agency, Acton & Dystel, which touts Obama as "born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii."

The booklet, which was distributed to "business colleagues" in the publishing industry, includes a brief biography of Obama among the biographies of eighty-nine other authors represented by Acton & Dystel.

It also promotes Obama's anticipated first book, Journeys in Black and White–which Obama abandoned, later publishing Dreams From My Father instead.

Obama's biography in the booklet is as follows (image and text below):


http://************/qff2cmq

Here's the photograph from 1991 with Obama listed as ''born in Kenya'' when he was listed beside other top Democratic candidates in the region, at the time:

http://************/hybkey5

"Barack Obama, the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review, was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii."

"The son of an American anthropologist and a Kenyan finance minister, he attended Columbia University and worked as a financial journalist and editor for Business International Corporation."

" He served as project coordinator in Harlem for the New York Public Interest Research Group, and was Executive Director of the Developing Communities Project in Chicago’s South Side."

"His commitment to social and racial issues will be evident in his first book, Journeys in Black and White."


"The parade of authors alongside Obama in the booklet includes politicians,

such as former Speaker of the House Tip O’Neill;

sports legends, such as Joe Montana

and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar;



and numerous Hollywood celebrities.
The reverse side of the page that features Barack Obama includes



former Green Party presidential candidate Ralph Nader



and early-1990s “boy band” pop sensation New Kids On the Block."


As far as being an expert on Venusian atmospheric conditions I can't say I remember him ever saying anything about it except whatever classical thermodynamics predict.

If Heller said something about Venusian atmospherics he was almost certainly ridiculing thermodynamic garbage being bandied by Dr. Hansen.

Hansen was known for his bombastic claims about Venus, as well as earth, which he said would shortly have the street to his office flooded if carbon dioxided continued to be released into the air.

Somewhere there's an image with a caption of when he predicted the street in front of his office would be flooded six feet deep, then showing his office and street many years later. Needless to say no one was on the street in a boat.

igrowone said:

thought i'd let the manifesto writer finish his say, we're all due our say
about Tony Heller, interesting reading
Mr. Heller is a birther, he believes the our president's birth certificate was false
ok, that's an opinion
and apparently Mr. Heller is a self proclaimed expert on other planet's climates, such as Venus
he repudiates the current scientific model's of Venus's atmosphere for his own different view point
so an earth climate expert, and in his spare time he rewrites solar system science
no surprise, the mainstream scientific community considers him a joke

Click to expand...

The article showing the President being listed as one of the publishing clients of Acton and Dystal is online, you can copy paste what I print below, and find it. Seems odd President Obama would be telling people he was born in Kenya in 1991 if he wasn't.

Breitbart News has obtained a promotional booklet produced in 1991 by Barack Obama’s then-literary agency, Acton & Dystel, which touts Obama as “born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.”

The booklet, which was distributed to “business colleagues” in the publishing industry, includes a brief biography of Obama among the biographies of eighty-nine other authors represented by Acton & Dystel.

Sure enough there's the president big as life, beaming about his new book deal, with the words ''born in Kenya'' right there.

''Michelle Obama saying Barack Obama was born in Kenya''

SpiritOfLiberty1775

at Youtube, there's Mrs Michelle Obama saying ''when we took our trip to Africa, and visited his home country, uh..of Kenya... we took a public AIDS test..''

It's right there at about :45 seconds into the clip. So maybe you don't get out much.

I most certainly didn't know anything about his wife saying that, or his publisher's 1991 brochure announcing proudly he is from Kenya...