question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

Guest said:

For many years now I have been a member of the various forums, and I have read much information on all of the more legendary varietys in the world. I have grown more famous Dutch lines than you shake a stick at and have seen some varietys hyped well beyond their means and some varietys that were very good, despite their lack of attention among the masses.


The Nevilles Haze is said to be originated from the earliest Haze stock available. The lines are said to trace back to genetics from 1969. There are indeed many documented grow reports on the Nevilles Haze which support its description as some of the best in the world.


The Flying Dutchmen Original Haze is not as old as the Nevilles Haze lines I have read, and definitely has a lack of grow reports to back up the legendary status this variety has. Also interesting to note the Dutchmen Original Haze is much faster then Pure Haze is generally given credit for. For many years now the Dutchmen Original Haze has been available, but very few grow reports have documented its life cycle.

You can have people tell you its LSD marijuana all you want, but if that was the truth and the Original Haze was that good it would be grown more frequently then the various Kush lines on the boards.


I remain unconvinced the Original Haze is as good as many say it is. Where are the grow reports? The numerous first hand accounts of the dutchmens genetics?


No disrespect to anybody, but you have to stop and think sometimes.

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TINY RASCAL said:

The Flying Dutchmen's "Original Haze" is a pure sativa cross. I'd smoke some in early year 2000 that a friend grew from "The Flying Dutchmen" unlike "Neville's Haze" which have some indica in it. You probably got yourself a fake Flying Dutchmen's "Original Haze" dude. Your personal failure is not the "WORLD'S FACT"!

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Taima-da said:

I had thought one of the traits of true untainted haze is high degree of phenotype expression, so two plants from same parental line may differ significantly. That's why it is said that one in forty or so are truly great, mostly really good and one or two mehs from the same seed.(?)

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SUPER_HAZE said:

I'm not sure but I would bet that photo belongs to positronics.
I remember reading here or in another post that someone asked Sam about haze from positronics.
He said that haze 19 was the one they liked and about the male he said he did not know what they used.
So, either they looked for a haze male from the original sam seeds that I don't know if they had OH seeds or they used another male that we don't know which one it is.
Tom Hill got the haze in 1995 and this positronics catalog is from 1996.
Flowering times don't match tom hill haze.
Either they lied about flowering times or they sold tom different haze seeds than the ones they would sell a year later...
If you look closely, they have haze19 x skunk#1 in the catalog just like the photo. That plant comes out planted. Will it be a photo of when they made the crossing?

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Taima-da said:

I had thought one of the traits of true untainted haze is high degree of phenotype expression, so two plants from same parental line may differ significantly. That's why it is said that one in forty or so are truly great, mostly really good and one or two mehs from the same seed.(?)

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TheDarkStorm said:

The only person who could make ohz in Holland and you could by seeds off was sam or sam threw flying Dutchman....Sam gave afew people the option of his clones...but with conditions they couldn't make pure ohz or crosses with his viraties.......im not sure why other breeders cant work things out logically or cant see traits properly.....so sam from seeds from 1976 in Holland makes his ohz and everything called ohz in Holland comes from this work of sams...and you have one coming from possi using a clone from this work of sams....but what possi call haze has additional traits that none of sams haze have neither did the haze brothers ohz have....none of the guys who left posi to open other places have a pure ohz.....so work it out...its simple logic....if the additional traits only appear in the line in Holland and dont match traits from the past then those traits have been added in Holland....and are not found in sams haze seeds or haze bros haze.....no hating...people can still enjoy it...treasure it ect ect....but still its just logic and facts...and very simple to see and work out......mac has done some good work with it so those that want to can still enjoy it....

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OT-Haze

Time 03:49, 26 Dec 1998
From oldtimer1
I don't have any pure haze mums any more I lost them 8 or 9 years ago to a Borg
attack. This is a point worth making all the sat vars that I have tried are very
susceptible to the two spot mite. So as far as growing sats are concerned a clean
house is needed. I did haveloads of h seeds but over the years have given
them away and Iím sorry to say no one made a go of it with them. In our climate it
needs dedication and to be a good gardener to boot. To grow with tropicals
indoors and under lighting, well totally different techniques are needed but to my
mind they are worth it. This year I have passed on most of what I had left of my h
seed stock to a friend and if he is successful the strain may carry on we will see. I
do have some mums from a series of crosses made between h and ss of which hd
is one, its my fav smoke and takes 9 to 10 w on 12 h. I have great respect for
Nevil and if the fastest is 14 weeks there isn't much nl in there. Small mottled
seeds sound like the right thing too, they sound like a good bet to me and well
worth trying. The main prob with haze is with so much inbreeding you only get 5 to
10% of really exceptional ones so loads need growing to get a really good one. I
suspect Nevil crossed h to a non dom nl then back crossed to h again the idea
being to remove the inbreeding depression without affecting the haze character.
This is only supposition but its the route I would take if I had the space and the
time.

Quote from one of the BC guys who got the ot1 seeds.

The 'Pure Haze' lines discussed in the thread on CW and at our site are from a differing line of 'Haze' from California in the '60s and not the same as the 'Haze Brothers' legendry 'Origional Haze' lines..


Originally Posted by Oldtimer1 at bcg forum

My haze was brought here [uk] from the states during its development it was still being developed field scale and may not represent the finished product. From what I have gleaned the nearest to the real thing on sale in Europe was sold by Wernard of Positronics. After he went bankrupt his stock and seed Co was taken over by Dutch passion / Home grown fantaseeds. Both these seed banks are run by relatives. The thing is that the spec for their haze has been changed from posies one in a big reduction on the finish time on 12/12. I suspect they have made a cross to a non dom indica.The thing is if you want to grow real haze it takes 12 to 16 weeks on 12/12 the very best being the late ones. The only other Haze that may have some of the original one in could be Nevils haze but greenhouse haven't published its spec yet but once again I suspect it will have indica added we will see. Most the other so called haze are lambs breath and Thai crosses. In fact in Holland haze has become a generic term for a sat with a strong up high.


oldtimer1
Apr 6 2004, 01:44 AM
nav I was and am, a do nothing no account as far as general society is concerned.

I have not found a modern var I would keep, I have to say I have not tried that many, most of my genetics come from before there were any seed banks.

Of modern I thought romberry and C99 were good efforts, but neither had the quality of high I look for. I would give them maybe 4 or 5 out of ten. I grew out over a 100 sensi seed bank Jack Herer when they first came out. Not one even made 1 out of 10 in my books.

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TheDarkStorm said:

The only person who could make ohz in Holland and you could by seeds off was sam or sam threw flying Dutchman....Sam gave afew people the option of his clones...but with conditions they couldn't make pure ohz or crosses with his viraties.....

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