Makeshift Mini Garden Seeks Advice

This garden was built in two days, after I germinated some 3 year old seeds that came from some good indica, as far as I remember. I forgot I had even started germinating them until 1 1/2 weeks later. To my surprise 6 of eight indeed germinated. By the time I remembered the taproots were damn near seedlings. So I ran to Lowes, got some miracle-gro seed starting pot mix, some peat pots & two cheap ass 24" fluro grow lights. 4 seeds made it from the peats to seedling stage and began to grow so lanky towards the cheap lights. So I went and got a 175w/hor MH for my measly sized closet w30.5" x d24" x h8'. I figured 175w was going to be the most I could do because of the size of the space and temp. I can't make exhaust because this is a rented apartment. Although I was thinking of making an exhaust duct from a vacuum cleaner wet/dry vac floor attachment and exhausting it out of the bottom of the door crack. Temps already get to 90F with the door closed, even with the 7" osc fan and carbon filter/ion fan. I can open the door for now, stealth isn't a big problem. Anyway I repotted them in 12qt pots, I now realize I shouldn't have got such big pots so early and they are round (what was I thinking). I figured this way I would never have to transplant. Now I'm thinking I should have slowly stepped up with pots so when it comes time to flower I could use unfortfied soil and use bloom nutes. By the way they are now potted in enriched miracle-gro pot mix w/25% perlite. Lights on 18/6

Questions for experienced enlighted ones:

Does anyone use MH lights in veg, then HPS in flower system anymore? I see a lot of HPS only systems.

I was going to get a 400w P L lighting HPS with a MH conversion bulb. Is this too much for this little space?

Should I just forsake the MH bulb and go HPS only?

Soil Advice? Any, I'm gaining knowledge every day and have two books on the way, but there are many here that have already made many mistakes I hope to avoid, any help would be appreciated.

Here is my crappy little garden so far, two weeks after cracked seeds:


(Click image for better view)


Thermometer/hum remote in the middle, carbon filter ionizer on the right 7" fan above, not seen.(Click image for better view)


Best of the four plants.(Click image for better view)


The Runt with a sheet of white paper for contrast.(Click image for better view)

What do you think so far? I've test the soil PH 6.3, NPK all off the scale using a Rapitest Soil Test Kit. So I've just been adding water every two days or so. All for now.

hello and welcome to ICMag :smile:

First things first:

1. Pots - yes your pots too big, your risking root rot, especially under fluoros, as your soil will take too long to dry out between one watering and another, and your roots will be receiving little oxygen. If I were you I'd take those babies and repot them, flip them over with a hand on top of the pots, the seedlings should be poking out between two fingers to support the soil mass around the roots, and gently brush away extra soil around the roots (carefully and don't touch them), then put them in small pots with fresh soil (see below) and gradually step up the size of the pots.

2. Soil - I don't use Miracle grow, but have seen that a fellow member (Caprichoso) advocates the use of Miracle Grow for seedlings but only if you add a good 30% perlite, you might want to do a search for Miracle Grow, Cap did a nice thread on its proper use.

3. Lights - This is subjective. Many people prefer fluoros through veg, others prefer MH, others Agro bulbs. MH and fluoros will reduce node spacing. I personally use an Agro bulb and always have. Works fine for me.

You WILL have heat issues with a 400W in a space that small, unless you intend to install a bomb-ass blower. I grow in a 3.5' x 3.0' x 6.5' cab, with 400W in a cool tube, and my blower is a switchable 120/360cfm unit which I keep at 360cfm. I have perfect temps now, but until I bought the blower and cool tube (was using two Vortex centrifugals, one for intake and one for exhaust) I was having a very hard time with the temperature.

Lookin' good though! :smile: Make sure you get those babies repotted soon :wink:

Hey mate...

Hey mate...

You are doing fine so far, dont replant into small pots, the roots will devlope very well in the pots you got them in... you dont have any signs of over ferting or over watering...as for the MH vs HPS... i say HPS, they are better and more money has been used to research and develope these bulbs.You are going to want one bad ass blower though...

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK

This seedling is 11 days old...

Sorry Blue, i hope i didnt step on you to hard...

Growdoc, I stand behind what I stated, to tell you the truth. Your own means of cultivation you have to admit are not the most common, and though I'm sure you are a "professional" as stated, and you obviously do know what you're talking about and get great results doing what you do the way you do it...IMO you can't say I gave wrong advice. We both know there are few absolutes in indoor soil growing.

I don't feel stepped on in the least, I'm not that insecure :wink:

I agree that for a newer grower, having small plants in large amounts of soil can be tricky... It's entirely possible, but only if you make sure to keep moisture levels right. The only way to do this indoors is to water from the top and the bottom, and never wet the soil completely - just keep the soil from going entirely dry, but don't wet the soil either - just moisten it... Once the roots are established, you can start soaking the soil thoroughly. Root rot CAN be a factor when small plants are placed in large amounts of soil indoors, just avoid that by watering carefully/lightly.

Hey Blue & Grow Doc! Not much to add to that!

For what it's worth when I stopped transplanting is when my babies got happy. I start in huge tub for a couple of reasons - they don't scream for water often, and their roots are never messed with. Using cups & small pots tripled my work and worry about watering, not to mention the time taken from the grow to recover from the transplanting process. Everyone to their own device - what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. :wink:

I use a closet about like yours packn2puff. I grew for years with a 150 HPS and 2 100 MHs, with so-so results - smoke was good but yield was down so I had to grow more and more often. I scrounged a 400w HPS with remote ballast and temps aren't the problem I had with the 3 smaller lights & their ballasts. I found out how to vent good and got the temps under control, now with the new light I have just the opposite - I have to watch that it doesn't get too cold!

Now, with just the 400 HPS in the flower closet things are great - heat is down & under control, humidity easier to control, without the heat odor is more controllable and with my tiny personal grows yeild is increasing as I learn more and more tuning tips from the great pros here.

Have fun - growing shouldn't have to be rocket-science, just common sense and most of all - FUN!! When you love what you do they return the favor in your potent personal stash. :friends:

Pop into chat once in a while - this is a great place to hang and have fun.

This is what I started with - have fun!

First of all, Thanks for the posts

Decisions, decisions. I think I'm going to use a little of all the advice. I will step through pot size in the future, if I stay with soil that is. I've been thinking of building a hydro system, probably drip or E & F just for fun. The light is a 175w Metal Halide I'm using now Bluevelvet. I now realize the pros and cons of size stepping pots. I am going to leave them alone this time though, my original thinking was along the lines of Growdoc. I have been watering about every three days or so after I see dry soil on top and the soil is fairly dry about a 1 1/2" - 2" down. My thinking was to force the tap root farther down in search of wetter pastures. I've been watering away from the plants and soaking till it leaches from the bottom. I'll watch out doing that for now on following Crazy's advice. Lights....Hmmm I really want that P L light. I think I'm going to get it and try out my wet-dry-vac-attachment-under-the-door idea. If it doesn't work out, I may build a cool Cab like 1Tokeover's and use the closet for momma. It's just money right!

Oh did I mention my paint ball gun CO2 system he he. I have like 60 12g CO2 cylinders for a cheap ass paint ball gun. So I tap a tank, then back off the screw so it has a slow leak. I do it in the morning and just put the gun in there. Bet you which you had a sweet ass system like that. I have to post a pic of this:


Silly or genius? The one in the dirt, just to show cylinder (click image for better view)


While I was in there Queen Momma has a little node growth (click for better view)

All for now, maybe see ya all in chat!!

Hey Growdoc

Just looked at your pic a little closer and like the cut of those seedlings jib. At 11 days hearty stalks. Fighting....urge...can't take it....off to buy hps system.

packn2puff said:

Hey Growdoc

Just looked at your pic a little closer and like the cut of those seedlings jib. At 11 days hearty stalks. Fighting....urge...can't take it....off to buy hps system.

Click to expand...

Got to love those HPS bulbs...

New P. L. Lighting System

New P. L. Lighting System

Well here it is the new 400w HPS w/ Eye Hortilux Super HPS EN. Got a new Dayton 265 CFM Exhaust fan. Ducting is going to be a trick. I decided to make some custom intake/exhaust ducts that will flange under the door. Maybe take an extra 1/4" off the bottom of the door. I don't think the Apt management will even notice. I don't know, we'll see. The ballast has packing foam that leaked all over the heat sinks and the transformer broke loose inside. Fixed X-former but I'm going to take it back tomorrow.

Nice garden Growdoc I wish I had that much room, maybe I'll be loosing my walk-in wardrobe next. :friends:

Heres the junk


(click for better view)

AAAHHHH....thats a shame about the foam....

But you are deffinatly going in the right direction...

New P. L. Lighting System & Dayton 256 installed

New P. L. Lighting System & Dayton 256 installed

Well here it is, 400 watts of hortilux power. My crazy under-the-door duct system works great. 82 F while outside-the-door ambient at 74F. :jawdrop:

Was going to mount a lightweight carbon filter to other side of lamp hood, but forgot to buy another 6" hose clamp. Anyway here it is:


The dayton and ballast (click image for better view)


The Under-the-door duct works. One out two passive ins (click image for better view)


As wide as I can get...a wall three feet away (click image for better view)


The Queen overexposed under the new bright ass hortilux (click image for better view)

Oh well all for now, maybe my kids can come over and play with your kids Growdoc. :friends:

My girls love to make new friends...

If you would like to see one of my rooms here you go...

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=10510

2 THUMBS UP!!!

Just playing with flash and time-lining.



Queen with Slow shutter and flash (click for...)


Queen with fast shutter and preflash (click for...)

hey man, that pl light is definitely top notch... eventually i think you'll want to upgrade to an inline fan for the air cooling....

Where did these seeds come from???

I'm diggin that new P L. Opened the ballast and was happy to see Venture Lighting Parts like the X-former which is completely silent. Electronics is my forte. I just have to have "The Shit". I'm going to make a custom under-the door duct system out of aircraft alluminum (probably 2024T 20guage) if I can get some time in our sheet metal shop. This fan is kickin some ass and power is going to be a problem here on out. Most of this apartment is wired with 16g wire. We'll see how the temp holds Angry Scientist.
Just saw your post while I was typing Growdoc. The seeds came from a half oz of somethin good indica I think. A buddy gave me some weed, he's a grower with a sweet hydroponic E & F set-up. He really gets into the whole this-is-the-best-strain-around thing. I just like to smoke. I just moved to this state and I don't know anyone who gets high. So I started this garden out of pure desperation. I fly for free, but I'm kind of chicken to carry any size quantity though security. I haven't been truly high since X-mas. However I'm having alot of fun with this hobby so far. I just want them to grow faster. Maybe I'll buy some seeds soon, my best friend said he might be able to get me some Cinderella 99 (I think thats what he said). He has a relative big into seed collecting as well. I'm going to call him later today, so we'll see.
All for now. P.S. The seeds are 3 years old I had dated them. How long do seeds last, anything bad about old seeds? In a film container the whole time, room temp.

Lovin your style mate, take her up and see if she flies, best way.
Yep 4oow hps systems are the way to go but wow heat is a problem in a wardrobe. I try not to have a grow during July August, just gets impossible.

No, once it has germed (that can be prob on very old seeds I hear) you should'nt have any probs with a new plant from an old seed. :smile:

The Fab Four

The Fab Four

Thank GMT
We'll I thought it might be time for a photo op of the Fab Four. For any photogs out there: Olympus 3030 zoom @ F2.8 1/800 shut 2ms preflash Shot at 3.3MP macro TIFF reduced to 800x600 JPG.
And now without further ado, The Fab Four:


Queen, named that because she was first out of seed first at everything and biggest now(click)


Stepchild, different from the rest of the family, little darker little lankier but doin well(click)


Droopy, this little girl has always been kind of well droopy, her top leaves are more towards lime green then the rest. Hope she's ok. Progresses on par with the rest so we'll see. (click)


Runt, last out of the seed, smallest, smallest stem doin alright now. (click)

We'll thats all I have in this mini garden. Trying to get better at this macro photograghy. I can shoot a great pic of a Formula 1 car doing 200+ MPH, but a little plant not going anywhere...light issues old camera...yeah thats it!
Once again thanks for the posts, many come to me in my occupation because I'm very good at what I do. Now I come to you all, because you are very good at what you do.
Go check out Growdocs spread, as Tiny Elvis said "That things huge man."

Forgot to say thanks for stoppin by GMT. You grow some awsome looking plants and I value your input. Your genetic experiment "Evolution" facinates me. Can't wait to see how the "I" plants turn out.