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The Green Manure thread

J

JackTheGrower


The Green Manure Thread
By JackTheGrower.

I cannot write it any better then what Wikipedia has at this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_manure

“From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In agriculture, a green manure is a type of cover crop grown primarily to add nutrients and organic matter to the soil. Typically, a green manure crop is grown for a specific period, and then plowed under and incorporated into the soil. Green manures usually perform multiple functions, that include soil improvement and soil protection”


So what about growing a Green Manure crop indoors in your planter bed? Ha!
Yes that’s what this thread is about.

First a little background on my planter bed.
Some time ago I took it apon myself to scrap my old planter bed because it was designed around florescent tubes and make one that was designed around a 1000 watt high pressure sodium light. I crafted a thread complete with photos at
http://www.growkind.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22613

My soil is a home made soil that has been rejuvinated six times in as many years as well as fed several times a year.
This serves as a once a year medical grow room and not a year round production room.

I reciently crafted a thread on making a soil like I have
http://www.growkind.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26276
That thread also covers a rejuvination.

At this time I have added compost, azomite, coffee, alfalfa, rice and oatmeal.







So with that background presented, I now wish to bring indoors what has been triditionally and outdoor soil building technique.

So what crops are triditional green manure crops?
Again I can find no better explanation than Wikipedia
“ Green manure crops
Winter cover crops such as oats or rye have long been used as green manures.
Mustard
Clover
Fenugreek
Lupin
Sunn hemp, a tropical legume
Vetch or Winter tares
Winter field beans
Alfalfa, which sends roots deep to bring nutrients to the surface.
Buckwheat is a rapidly growing green manure in temperate regions.
Ferns of the genus Azolla have been used as a green manure in southeast Asia.
Velvet Bean (Mucuna pruriens) Common in the southern US during the early part of the 20th century, before being replaced by soybeans. Popular today in most tropical countries, especially in
Central America where it is the main green manure used in Slash/Mulch farming practices”

But this is an indoor planter bed so being a true organic gardener I turned to what I have on hand. Bird seed none of the birds are eating.





Today I will share some photos of a prepaired soil that has had compost, rice, coffee, azomite and oatmeal added to it. Then watered. Then had the whole bag of bird seed dumped and worked into the soil.
With Fingers crossed I hope I get some sprouts.

It is my hope to share my indoor success with a green manure crop.
So keep reading and see if I am successful or not.
 
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G

Guest

I'd use soybean because of the fast rate of nitrogen fixation. Nitrogen fixation is when the gas nitrogen (Nl2) found in the air or atmosphere is converted into compounds typically found in fertilizers. Ammonia nitrogen, nitrate, and nitrogen dioxide. This is caused by the bacteria that lives around the roots of the soybean plant. Leave this stuff go a full year and till it under will create a nicely fertilized soil.
 
SilverSurfer_OG

SilverSurfer_OG

Living Organic Soil...
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I am about to plant some fenugreek and alfa alfa in a wee plot outside. First time using a green manure but sounds awesome. I remember a thread on overgrow where this old dude had massive tomato plants way back when. He used a ladder to tend his crops and swore by alfa alfa...

How long would you need to leave it? I plan on planting my weed alongside the green manure at first.
 
H

hobosapien

Member
WHOA!

glad i didnt just check my PM's!

*pulls up a stool, opens eyes to receive valuable cultivation info*

catch you next time.

keep it green.
 
J

JackTheGrower

tokinafaty420 wrote "I'd use soybean because of the fast rate of nitrogen fixation"

http://groworganic.com/item_SNV4135_Renees_Garden_Edamame_Fresh_Soyb.html
Interesting idea tokinafaty420. I'll keep that in mind.

By using the bird seed I hope to get some green to grow then I will turn it under.

quadracer point out "Another excellent green manure is Russian Comfrey. It grows really fast, and is full of P and K."

http://www.allotment.org.uk/vegetables_and_herbs/Comfrey_The_Wonder_Plant.php

I'd like that idea myself and will keep it in mind.

SilverSurfer_OG worte about alfa alfa. I have to admit I must Google that Did you mean alfalfa? If So I have an alfalfa field within walking distance and can take some photos and maybe gather some fresh green alfalfa and make a tea? That would be interesting to see a tea made in a blender from fresh alfalfa.


Now on to today. It's Monday August 20th and I see that the bioactivity is up high





This may kill off the bird seed.. If so I'll get more seed when things cool down... After all it's all organic material!
 
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J

JackTheGrower

Sigh;


It's a good thing and a bad thing.





On the one hand lets hear it for a living organic soil web and on the other hand is 90 degree F , 32 degree C soil temps and seeds...





We will see.
 
J

JackTheGrower

Well Ladies and Gents it's Five PM and we have sprouts and at a soil temp of 90 degree F at that.





From 08-19-2007 10:41 PM to 08-21-2007 05:15 PM Not bad!


Oh and BTW I came home from a walk with two bags of alflafa plucked fresh from a field that is bein harvested.
Man alfalfa smell sweet in the summer sun.
I have some nice shots of the alfalfa field.

I'll be making a thread on fresh alfalfa tea in the next day or two.
I have a date tonight so that will have to wait.

 
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SilverSurfer_OG

SilverSurfer_OG

Living Organic Soil...
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Yeah thats how you spell it :D

Looks good. I have only seen the stuff that goes on salad before. Its real good for us humans too.

If i remember right the old dude used alfalfa as a greenmanure, feed and mulch. He also swore by rock dust in his soil. Dont think the photos were fake and his plants were massive!!!

Wish i had a printer a few years back...
 
H

hobosapien

Member
jack,

some questions about your 'method'. you take a rich(active) soil, lay down seed (other beneficial crop), upon sprouting turn it all under soil, where it decomposes attracting microbes/bacteria, while releasing nutrition?

that seems almost too good to be true. i can see this would be wonderful in a raised bed, or a soil recycling system!

keep us updated, and keep it GREEN.
 
J

JackTheGrower

SilverSurfer_OG said:
Yeah thats how you spell it :D

Looks good. I have only seen the stuff that goes on salad before. Its real good for us humans too.

If i remember right the old dude used alfalfa as a greenmanure, feed and mulch. He also swore by rock dust in his soil. Dont think the photos were fake and his plants were massive!!!

Wish i had a printer a few years back...
Click to expand...


I've been using Azomite this last season and yes minerals make a difference!

http://www.azomite.com/

I'll be getting to the blender and the alfalfa later today and should have a thread up soon.

You should smell the sweetness of alfalfa in bloom. I sat in the field with the bees around and the breeze blowing under the summer sun.

Too bad the harvester was just one field away. I could have stayed there all day..
 
J

JackTheGrower

hobosapien said:
jack,

some questions about your 'method'. you take a rich(active) soil, lay down seed (other beneficial crop), upon sprouting turn it all under soil, where it decomposes attracting microbes/bacteria, while releasing nutrition?

that seems almost too good to be true. i can see this would be wonderful in a raised bed, or a soil recycling system!

keep us updated, and keep it GREEN.
Click to expand...

Well Hobosapien I've pampered this six year old soil all I know how to so this is the only thing left I can think of.

You can count on me following through on this thread. Have a look at the links to other threads I have done,





The Bioactivity is really high... The trick here is ground coffee and rice y'all

Still take a look at the carpet of green on today August 22, 2007





It's actually grown more since I took the photo this morning.


Hey everyone... this is a 16 ft sq planter bed and I estamate 47 cubic feet of loveingly tended six year old home made organic soil.

Hobosapien this is my first cover crop in the box.. I did one in a backyard garden over a winter.. It was cool. My only regret was I was skimpy on the seed that winter.
Not so with the bird seed in this box.

And Dude... I've got a green carpet going here.
 
J

JackTheGrower

Things are looking good... Hey MOM I'm Growing Grass!








Soil temps are still reading 100 F but ya know what it's hot deep in the soil..

If you have a look at how I constructed my box you will see the air is plenty to the root zone.
I am guessing this last time I turned the soil I have a lot of material that is "cooking" down around the airy perlite.
 
SilverSurfer_OG

SilverSurfer_OG

Living Organic Soil...
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Yeah that azomite looks the biz. Not sure if its available in australia though... *EDIT: Yup i can get it mail order n maybe find it in a shop :D

I planted my alfalfa and fenugreek today. Just gotta stop the rabbits, wallabies and possums having their way.
 
Last edited:
G

gromer

Member
This all sounds wonderful but how long are you letting that stuff break down b4 planting in it?It needs to be super well composted b4 plants go in as if not the composting process will rob the plants of Nitrogen and things will go yellow b4 they even get a chance to develop.Id like to try somthing like that but if I put all those whole ingredients in Id be letting it sit for a year probably b4 I used it.Looks awesome though.I cant imagine the micro beastie orgy that must be goin on under that soil surface,Chik a bow,wow wow,chik a bow wow.Thats my cheesy 70s porno music to go along with the beastie orgie btw.LOL!!!I crack myself up somtimes!!!Buhahahaha!!Peace,Gromerr Pott!!
 
J

JackTheGrower

SilverSurfer_OG said:
Yeah that azomite looks the biz. Not sure if its available in australia though... *EDIT: Yup i can get it mail order n maybe find it in a shop :D

I planted my alfalfa and fenugreek today. Just gotta stop the rabbits, wallabies and possums having their way.
Click to expand...


I don't have any negative things to say about Azomite.

" The Alumina (Al2O3)* 11.43%*The alumina is not biologically available. It is bound to the silica and is an aluminosilicate."

Sort of worries me but I don't have any hint that it could be a health problem for us smokers.

So again I recomend it. Last season was the best season and I have been growing the same F1's for five years.
Sticky oh Man it was sticky and that was a change from previous seasons.
The two new materials I added to the feeding ws black strap molasses and Azomite.

I hope I will have the alfalfa thread up today. I have the photos shot.



JTG
 
J

JackTheGrower

gromer said:
This all sounds wonderful but how long are you letting that stuff break down b4 planting in it?
Click to expand...

Ya-know gromer this is my first time doing a green manure in my indoor planter bed box. So I just don't know.
We organic gardeners must use our green sense in these maters.



gromer said:
It needs to be super well composted b4 plants go in as if not the composting process will rob the plants of Nitrogen and things will go yellow b4 they even get a chance to develop.
Click to expand...

This point I totally agree with you on. After rejuvenating my soil I notice a lack of nitrogen so feeding nitrogen is a must when planting.


gromer said:
Id like to try something like that but if I put all those whole ingredients in Id be letting it sit for a year probably b4 I used it.
Click to expand...

Well gromer I've been tending this soil for about six years. I turn and break up the root mass, add materials like kelp meal, alfalfa meal, azomite, bone meal, rice, coffee and what not then fire it up every year.
I'm guessing that I'm pushing the natural processes a little faster. Then again I sure can use any tips any of you all have.
As for how long till I'm planting.. I'll have to see.

gromer said:
Looks awesome though. I cant imagine the micro beastie orgy that must be going on under that soil surface, Chik a bow,wow wow,chik a bow wow.Thats my cheesy 70s porno music to go along with the beastie orgie btw.LOL!!!I crack myself up somtimes!!!Buhahahaha!!Peace,Gromerr Pott!!
Click to expand...

I get your point of humor and yes I think it's funny ya make that Chik a bow,wow wow,chik a bow wow.

You know I must have stopped short on the rejuvenation this last time because it's really active all the way down because I have a 22 inch temperature probe and when I run my hand along it I can feel where the warmth is
I'm happy I found this out before I tried to plant in it. I hadn't watered the soil much because it seems to stay somewhat moist and well I wasn't growing in it and I thought I had "cooked" all the materials out. Doesn't look that way right now.

"So interesting it is hummmm" said in a Yoda voice
 
J

JackTheGrower

Today is Thursday August 23rd and there is a green carpet in my planter bed/box my fellow organic soil lovers.


Yet something unexpected is going on.

It seems that I failed to keep my "pile" hydrated long enough when I rejuvenated the soil this last time and soaking the approximately 47 cubic feet of organic soil has brought the bioactivity back up... My bad!

The good thing is that it doesn't seem to be causing a problem with this green manure crop and that I have discovered this before I put in any plants for the upcoming season.







 
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