Worried about loosing my plant - First time DWC asks for help

[Evell1950]

Ok I see.

I didn't know it was a thing but some days ago I thought about how to cool it down and I came up with the exact same idea... but I tought I had to change the bottle too often...

Will insulate the whole tank that will be enough I think but maybe on 100% light power I still have to use the poor man's chiller... we will see hopefully not!

 

[Evell1950]

Update for you guys.

I've read your Threads Curtis and let my plant do it's thing and let the PH slowly drift from about 5.3 to about 6.0 still lurking your Threads and learning.

Since my last update I've also Fimmed her at 6th node on 11/25/2021

Got some environment problems and had a high VPD because of low RH 30-40% and high temps about 28C (80F) and low leaf temps about 21-22C (69-71F). Leaf got ultra dry and little leaf tip burn which made me suspicous and checked the VPD and RH and so on and found out to be too HIGH VPD so she got nute burn because she drank too much (that's what I think)

Now RH is better at about 50-65% RH at about 24-26C (75-78F) but leaves still dry... Also a lot of deficiencies came up... and the plant is very stiff.

Scroll down to see pictures of the plant.

Things I did lately

-11/20/2021 New Rez at 0.6 EC PH 5.3 -> plant looks fine... recovering...
-11/22/2021 CalMag added because deficient EC 0.8 PH 5.66 now -> plant looks good again... recovering...
-11/24/2021 RH started to Drop. Temps started to climb. VPD high -> plants start to look dropy/dry leaves
-11/25/2021 FIMMED at 6th node RH and Temps still not in check because not noticed. EC Still 0.8 PH 5.7 but still high VPD -> plant still dropy/dry
-11/26/2021 RH drops more Air Temps climb too... -> plant more and more dropy and dry... Starts to get Leaf Tip Burn
-11/30/2021 Noticed something is very wrong because plant more and more droopy/dry/deficiencies/stunt growth/ so I've checked EC, RH and Temps and VPD and so on and noticed a very bad environment. GOOD PH but LOW EC, LOW RH, HIGH TEMP, HIGH VPD Changed everything
-12/01/2021 EC dropped over time down to 0.67 ...PH 5.9 RH 55% Temp 25C (77F) Leaf Temp 22C (71.6F) Rez Temp <21C (<69.8F) plant still looks bad (probably very deficieny at this point... EC 0.6 and fimmed and bigger plant already and so on)
-12/03/2021 Plant sitll looks bad... deficiencies go on EC 0.63 PH 6.0 RH 55% AirTemp 25C (77F) Leaf Temp 22C (71.6F) Rez Temp <21C (<69.8F) Plant still looks bad...

So today still plant still looks not good even a little worse I decided to up the EC a bit maybe that will help...

CURRENT STATUS: Added Nuted and Water Today so new PH cycle starts now

PH 5.3
EC about 1.2
RH 55%
AirTemp 25C (77F)
Leaf Temp 22C (71.6F)
Rez Temp <21C (<69.8)
Lights at 70% (makes room warmer. would be 21 air temps with lower light and manufactuerer says to use 60-90% in VEG)

Hopefully she will bounce back soon. What do you guys think? Something I should change or just watch again from now on since I changed EC and so on maybe she will bounce back now because she was hungry...?

Here some pics from today after Rez change.

Plant Front:

Plant top:

Plant fimmed 6th node at 11/25/2021 healed and looks like this now:

Plant Deficiencies: all sorts of deficiencies... Maybe due to low EC and hungry after Fimming

Rusty Spots

Bleached Spots look alike

Rusty Spots

YELLOWING LOWER LEAVES AND MIDDLE AGED LEAVES

PURPLE LEAVE STEMS.... BAD?

 

[mojave green]

I think I see what’s going on. Top and bottom half are 2 way different mediums. The clay balls on top need soaking pretty often as they are a relatively dry medium., while the roots at the bottom are getting too much water. Need to even that out a little.
I recommend putting a small pond pump in your rez, and run a line from it up through the middle of your netpot into the clay ball medium. Like a little waterfall for your clay balls. This will keep your clay balls moist, oxygenate your water, and even out your system.

 

[Evell1950]

Hi mojave thans for ur reply. Right now i dont see the need to add water to my clay pebbles. Plant is recovering so here is an update:

Date 12/06/2021
Time 02:00
RH 55%
AirTemp 28C
LeafTemp 22-23.5C
WaterTemps 21C
EC 1166
PH 5.58

The last days I've noticed how she starts to recover... Older stiff growth start to get less stiff (but still is stiff a little right now) but newer growth is already coming in and looks good... no nute burn and no deficiencies... but old leaves and shoots still deficient leaves... they'll probably never green again. So I decided to cut off the 2 big deficient light blokcing fan leavs of the top based on the insights of swapmeat.

Here I got some pictures for you.

NOW PHOTOS BEFORE DEFOLIATION! (For photos after defoliation scroll down)

PLANT TOP BEFORE DEFOLIATION:

PLANT FRONT BEFORE DEFOLIATION:

PLANT FIMMED RECOVERY

PLANT DEFICIENCIES

NOW PLANT PHOTOS AFTER CUTTING OFF 2 FAN LEAVES

PLANT TOP AFTER DEFOLIATION:

PLANT FRONT AFTER DEFOLIATION

Cut Leaves LEAF#1: Look its crawling and very deficient and dry

Cut Leaves LEAF#2: Look its crawling and very deficient and dry

ROOTS! NEW PERFECTLY WHITE ROOTS AND THE NUTE STAINTED ROOTS STILL HALF OF OLD ROOTS STIFF

 

[Evell1950]

Not all the growth is droopy and stiff now... there are about 2-5 new growth shoots looking realy healthy. No sign of nutrient burn or deficiency. Do the old roots look like nute burned roots? The old once were very stiff too some days ago.

 

[Lester Beans]

pH 5.3 is too low and that is in evidence just looking at the plant. pH 5.8 for hydro and let drift up to 6.2 before resetting.

A small rez is nearly impossible to keep balanced and pH will be all over the map. A 5 gal bucket is a manageable size and large enough to keep a stable rez.

Using distilled water you need to add cal/mag. Didn't read if you did our not but make sure you use it.

Do you have air in the water? Looks like you need more. Roots need plenty of air bubbles in DWC. Plant looks droopy from pH being too low (clawing) and from being over watered (not enough oxygen to the roots)

I would personally start over but if you have to save that plant I would make wholesale changes.

 

[mojave green]

The roots look better.

 

[Dr.Young]

Too much light, and air is way too dry.... Calcium is immobile and leaves show calcium issues when transpiration pressure is too high... Need to give them gentle light and some high humidity for a bit to heal up from the stress. Look at a VPD chart, and get on the higher safer side for humidity for your temperature. 50% humidity is damn near night time ripening phase levels for temps around 68-70... Also the lower the humidity and higher the pressure/transpiration the lower you want to feed..... I would veg .6 ec bloom 1.2

 

[Evell1950]

pH 5.3 is too low and that is in evidence just looking at the plant. pH 5.8 for hydro and let drift up to 6.2 before resetting.

A small rez is nearly impossible to keep balanced and pH will be all over the map. A 5 gal bucket is a manageable size and large enough to keep a stable rez.

Using distilled water you need to add cal/mag. Didn't read if you did our not but make sure you use it.

Do you have air in the water? Looks like you need more. Roots need plenty of air bubbles in DWC. Plant looks droopy from pH being too low (clawing) and from being over watered (not enough oxygen to the roots)

I would personally start over but if you have to save that plant I would make wholesale changes.

I was using PH 5.3 because Curtis said so in this thread on first page -> "You want the pH rise from 5.4 to 6.0 to take about 7-10 days during veg."

Rez is 10 gallon now with about 8gal water so its managable now...

I use distilled and lately for about 2-3 weeks im also adding CALMAG since i ran into deficiencies earlier...

I have a big air Stone in my water... lots of bubbles.

 

[Evell1950]

The roots look better.

yeah I think so too! The roots look way better.. and not as stiff as before... plant is less stiff too... so I think shes recovering

 

[Evell1950]

Too much light, and air is way too dry.... Calcium is immobile and leaves show calcium issues when transpiration pressure is too high... Need to give them gentle light and some high humidity for a bit to heal up from the stress. Look at a VPD chart, and get on the higher safer side for humidity for your temperature. 50% humidity is damn near night time ripening phase levels for temps around 68-70... Also the lower the humidity and higher the pressure/transpiration the lower you want to feed..... I would veg .6 ec bloom 1.2

Too high VPD cuz of low RH and high temps was the problem in the first place in my eyes... had a very high VPD (easy >2.0)for a long time... thats when problems started to appear...

So you think that full power 70% is too much right now? Leaves tha didnt get much light were nice and green and once they got a lot of light because i stopped the blocking the leaves turn yellow too.... whats the problem...? Too much light and not enough nutrients? too much light plant is tooo young?

 

[Evell1950]

I'm talkin about full power lights. Its currently rrunning at 70%. Its a spider farmer SF 4000 with 450 wats output at 100%

 

[Dr.Young]

Yeah make sure that light is 24" away or so and you'd still be fine at 50%......Plants in veg really dont need much light, stretching is a good way to speed up a veg, and the plants will reach for a intensity they like... Leaves will get pretty fat in low light in attempt to absorb more... Give them girls a bunch of humidity so they can breathe and heal up. Drop the food way down, and maybe give them a foliar to replenish whats been locked out through excess pressure/transpiration and absorption of the immobiles... Think of humidity as a buffer for your nutrients to prevent the plant from getting toxic raw amounts.
Just remember the 3 main nutrients are carbon/hydrogen/oxygen... All of that is in the air. VPD is everything.... You can feed plants super low amounts but if they are absorbing it right, and chugging it because of raw vigor...You dont need to force feed them huge amounts. Co2 will make your buds fatter than any amount of bloom booster.

 

[Evell1950]

All depends on the height of the light and the ppfd at that height.... Even at 24" away that light is intense for veg. You want a even spread though so far away is good but yeah i wouldnt worry about having light turned down too much and losing potential plant size... If anything aside from healthy being bigger... but plants stretching for light or having low light will produce larger fans trying to seek light essentially..... Less is more is so true in every way except dick size. Even then you'd be surprised in the real world how few can take a big ole dong.
Treat them girls gentle my dude.

ok so u say there is no need to fry her with 70% power?? I was exzctly thinkin that if i turn it too low she will stunt and i will loose a lot of growth ... thats why i turned it to about 70% very fast about 2-3 days from 40% to about 70.... that was too fast?

my light is at about 55 cm above canopy (thats about 22" from canopy...) so ur recommendation is to lower the light outout ASAP?

 

[Evell1950]

maybe thats why all the leaves that come from the lower dark side turn yellow as soon as they get a lot of light...? because its TOO much light and thats why they turn yellow?? even the new healthy growth!

 

[Evell1950]

or so u say... upp the RH from 55% to even higher numbers... Turn down the light from 70% POWER to about 40% and let the plant rest. Also lower the EC a little so plant doesnt burn and get stressed again... then just wait till she recovers more? but basically turning light down would help her more and i shoulkd worry about loosing plant size and growing speed with lower light right?

 

[exploziv]

There is no point on forcing high intensity light on a defficient plant. At best, it's wasted electricity. But you'll probably find out that your defs will corect faster if light is just enaugh, but not too much. I'd go for something like 200-250w per square meter at this point, till plant recovers. Also, you need to put some Ca into the plant. And as others said, the ph you are using could be a bit too low. But I don't have any experience in hydro to be able to tell you more on that. Try to read some grows from succesful people and see what ph are they using.

 

[Evell1950]

There is no point on forcing high intensity light on a defficient plant. At best, it's wasted electricity. But you'll probably find out that your defs will corect faster if light is just enaugh, but not too much. I'd go for something like 200-250w per square meter at this point, till plant recovers. Also, you need to put some Ca into the plant. And as others said, the ph you are using could be a bit too low. But I don't have any experience in hydro to be able to tell you more on that. Try to read some grows from succesful people and see what ph are they using.

Ok i will lower light % to about 200W per square meter... its at about 35% strength now... CalMag is iny my water about EC 0.4 just calmag and a member calles CURTIS looks like a good hydro grower and he told me to use PH 5.4 to 6.0 here in this thread on page 1

 

[Evell1950]

Yeah make sure that light is 24" away or so and you'd still be fine at 50%......Plants in veg really dont need much light, stretching is a good way to speed up a veg, and the plants will reach for a intensity they like... Leaves will get pretty fat in low light in attempt to absorb more... Give them girls a bunch of humidity so they can breathe and heal up. Drop the food way down, and maybe give them a foliar to replenish whats been locked out through excess pressure/transpiration and absorption of the immobiles... Think of humidity as a buffer for your nutrients to prevent the plant from getting toxic raw amounts.
Just remember the 3 main nutrients are carbon/hydrogen/oxygen... All of that is in the air. VPD is everything.... You can feed plants super low amounts but if they are absorbing it right, and chugging it because of raw vigor...You dont need to force feed them huge amounts. Co2 will make your buds fatter than any amount of bloom booster. filedata/fetch?id=18007933&d=1638778522

ok i see... ive lowered light %... will up the humidity to about 70% or so... about foliar feeding.. what to foliar feed? same as the rez water with full nute schedule or just a heavily diluted version?

 

[Dr.Young]

80*F daytime temp 70*F night .... Whatever the temperature is the humidity should be about 10 below that number......The drier the more rapid the plants are eating/drinking, and being pushed.... The wetter the more buffered and slow the food is being absorbed. You can control if the plants are being worked or chilling.

A calmag foliar or weak veg mix would probably give them a jolt of energy and bounce back fast.