Yup that is how Amy Winehouse died an alcohol overdoes after rehab same amount that she used to drink daily. Lots of opioid users die in the same way from overdosing after thier tolerance has decreased from a period on non use, like Tom Petty. FYI Narcs fear drugs so badly they would rather see a user die then to allow them to continue to use drugs and enjoy life by allowing people a legal safe supply.
B.C. receives exemption to decriminalize possession of some illegal drugs for personal use
- Thread starter Rider420
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moose eater
Well-known member
In research in New Mexico, re. opiate over-doses, esp. lethal, I believe in the later 1990's, they found another factor re. opioid ODs.
The pattern that surfaced showed spikes in ODs (esp. lethal ODs) immediately after a sweep of raids. Addicted persons would lose a street level supplier to the raids, and latch on to a new source (sometimes further up the supply chain), and inadvertently end up with cleaner dope, thus contributing to users believing they were taking the same dose, but in fact sometimes taking much more, by virtue of differences in purity.
I first encountered that information at a NASEC (North American Syringe Exchange Conference) in Albuquerque, New Mexico, when I was there for CEUs for a license requirement.
The irony of the findings included that raids on heroin suppliers/dealers were actually leading to more deaths, not fewer, and New Mexico at that time, per capita, had some of the most staggering frequencies of over-doses in the Nation.
Then-Governor Gary Johnson was among the first to open up the proverbial gates WIDE for distribution of Narcan for EMTs, cops, family members and significant others of opioid users, and more. One of the fastest most sensible things I saw any of the politicians and talking heads do in that period. It literally saved lives.
But even with Narcan, some found punitive ways to use it.
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I've always wanted to smoke a bowl of crack to the head like Lawrence Taylor the champ. Could die one time though. Not worth the risk. But man, a $20 rock to the head...wonder how high I would get?
YouTube has plenty of videos of cops collapsing from FENTANYL. Just touching it. They OD'd right there. Good watch.
Drugz 4 all!!!!
YouTube has plenty of videos of cops collapsing from FENTANYL. Just touching it. They OD'd right there. Good watch.
Drugz 4 all!!!!
Here is proof that Narcs like this guy would rather see users dead then allow them a safe drug supply.
nationalpost.com
Anthony believes safe supply is poorly researched and “consigns the addict to be a slave forever,”
This fucking son of a bitch "NARC" would rather watch thousands die rather then let users have a safe supply becuase it might lead to more healthy users.
A total of 3,556 apparent opioid toxicity deaths occurred so far in 2022 (January – June). This is approximately 20 deaths per day. FYI 100 people die each day from tobacco use.
And the propaganda is just insane!
"He told me that at least 10 of his colleagues have privately messaged him to express similar concerns about the potential harms of flooding communities with free opioids."
Adam Zivo: The silencing of drug addiction experts who criticize 'safe supply'
B.C. professor says provincial government is censoring him
nationalpost.com
Anthony believes safe supply is poorly researched and “consigns the addict to be a slave forever,”
This fucking son of a bitch "NARC" would rather watch thousands die rather then let users have a safe supply becuase it might lead to more healthy users.
A total of 3,556 apparent opioid toxicity deaths occurred so far in 2022 (January – June). This is approximately 20 deaths per day. FYI 100 people die each day from tobacco use.
And the propaganda is just insane!
"He told me that at least 10 of his colleagues have privately messaged him to express similar concerns about the potential harms of flooding communities with free opioids."
RobFromTX
Well-known member
I knew a guy when i was younger that would make crack in his oven, with the baking soda ofcourse. I'll never forget the smell and it made him act complete whirly birds. I dont think you missed out on anything extravagant
moose eater
Well-known member
They're caught up in what has been 105 years (by my rough calculation) of failed policies that not only fostered and cultivated more common prejudices, but made LOTS of money for those who were perceived as the 'good guys' during that period of time.Here is proof that Narcs like this guy would rather see users dead then allow them a safe drug supply.
Adam Zivo: The silencing of drug addiction experts who criticize 'safe supply'
B.C. professor says provincial government is censoring him
Anthony believes safe supply is poorly researched and “consigns the addict to be a slave forever,”
This fucking son of a bitch "NARC" would rather watch thousands die rather then let users have a safe supply becuase it might lead to more healthy users.
A total of 3,556 apparent opioid toxicity deaths occurred so far in 2022 (January – June). This is approximately 20 deaths per day. FYI 100 people die each day from tobacco use.
And the propaganda is just insane!
"He told me that at least 10 of his colleagues have privately messaged him to express similar concerns about the potential harms of flooding communities with free opioids."
If someone told you every day of your life, all day long, that the Sun is purple, then one day someone asked you what color the Sun is, I'd wager there'd be a serious urge to respond 'purple, of course.'
Change takes time, and the very structuring of stigma re. addicts has led to some self-fulfilling prophecies re. negative expectations, socioeconomically, and otherwise.
For example, if persons aren't able to work a living-wage job due to drug-testing, arrest record, etc., how are they apt to earn an income to live? Black marketeering or theft, or....
"See, addicts are all n'er-do-wells and criminals."
That's not by any means the whole picture, as some who've sunken into serious addiction cycles also can find themselves unable to work, but that's not true for all, by any stretch.
And there's the other end of that extreme, too. Jerry Garcia, as a commonly referenced example, maintained his presence in 4 bands while routinely using heroin and cocaine. None of his bands individually could keep up with the guy. He was known to tour (and road-life can be hard living) something like 330+ days/year. Sound unproductive?
He was straight as an arrow re. opiates and coke when he died.
Less judgement and more knowledge with compassion (from ALL sides) is, imo, part of the answer. And not making health issues into criminal issues is a big part of that in harm reduction.
moose eater
Well-known member
"If you're gonna' do drugs, do GOOD drugs."
moose eater
Well-known member
I don't think that's the message anyone but the dealers are sending, and even some of them have their own established limits.
When I was dealing (ANYTHING! weed, whatever), if you had legal troubles, were beating your wife/husband/kids/others, stealing, offering 'hot' property as collateral, attracting heat in general, or had obvious mental health issues happening, ESPECIALLY if related to any substances, it was, "Sorry, man, I quit, don't have anything, and don't see myself returning to the trade."
That was for MY benefit (for I hope obvious reasons), but also for the benefit of the user, as well as others in their life.
Dealing with flaky, high-profile people is a straight express ticket to places best left not visited.
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Tynehead Tom
Well-known member
Those who dislike my take on these new decriminalizations .... we will just have to respectfully and politely agree to disagree. I have lost so many friends to addiction since my 20's that my vision may be clouded enough to not see the bigger picture but then again..... they just made it even easier for the addicted as far as I'm concerned.
My take on things? dealers will be adapting and having more runners peddling points of grams..... simple. Hell right now with the connections for good cocaine that I can muster up with a phone call..... I could literally make a killing if I hired a dozen or more runners carrying no more than "legal" limit.
Does nothing to curb the use of fentanyl, meth and other synthetic street drugs that are always sold by the point.... same goes for crack.... sold by the point. So a runner only needs to carry 25 points and off he goes. I'd be stacking bills like the biden family if I was a lesser man.
Now..... if they were to Legalize the growing of coca plant and opium poppy and legalize the use of these plants and thier extracts...... I'd be okay with that. I would be all for legal, adult use only businesses like the opium dens of the orient and other locales.
Just like I am an advocate for legalizing all forms of cannabis , I would also be willing to advocate for free and open use of these other plants as well.
But I will never, not in a million years, support a government model that decrimminalzes street meth, fentanyl and other cooked up poison.
I know functioning cocaine and heroin users. Have known them since my 20's and they have had thier habits all these years and I'm in my early 50's these days. None of them have died or even overdosed but the difference is, they have always been employed, own property and business and have always functioned like that. I do know that they get very high quality product and always have. They would never go outside thier circle to source it and they wouldn't touch meth or any of the other street drugs with a 10 foot pole.
So while I am for legalizing the use of the opium poppy and the coca plant , I am not for "decriminalizing" street drugs as a blanket way to fool the public. Vancouver and other BC communities are going to be feeling this decision big time in the property crime and trespass side of the criminal code.
no need to flame me, if you don't agree, that's okay, go back and read the beginning of the post again
My take on things? dealers will be adapting and having more runners peddling points of grams..... simple. Hell right now with the connections for good cocaine that I can muster up with a phone call..... I could literally make a killing if I hired a dozen or more runners carrying no more than "legal" limit.
Does nothing to curb the use of fentanyl, meth and other synthetic street drugs that are always sold by the point.... same goes for crack.... sold by the point. So a runner only needs to carry 25 points and off he goes. I'd be stacking bills like the biden family if I was a lesser man.
Now..... if they were to Legalize the growing of coca plant and opium poppy and legalize the use of these plants and thier extracts...... I'd be okay with that. I would be all for legal, adult use only businesses like the opium dens of the orient and other locales.
Just like I am an advocate for legalizing all forms of cannabis , I would also be willing to advocate for free and open use of these other plants as well.
But I will never, not in a million years, support a government model that decrimminalzes street meth, fentanyl and other cooked up poison.
I know functioning cocaine and heroin users. Have known them since my 20's and they have had thier habits all these years and I'm in my early 50's these days. None of them have died or even overdosed but the difference is, they have always been employed, own property and business and have always functioned like that. I do know that they get very high quality product and always have. They would never go outside thier circle to source it and they wouldn't touch meth or any of the other street drugs with a 10 foot pole.
So while I am for legalizing the use of the opium poppy and the coca plant , I am not for "decriminalizing" street drugs as a blanket way to fool the public. Vancouver and other BC communities are going to be feeling this decision big time in the property crime and trespass side of the criminal code.
no need to flame me, if you don't agree, that's okay, go back and read the beginning of the post again
moose eater
Well-known member
No flames, Tom.Those who dislike my take on these new decriminalizations .... we will just have to respectfully and politely agree to disagree. I have lost so many friends to addiction since my 20's that my vision may be clouded enough to not see the bigger picture but then again..... they just made it even easier for the addicted as far as I'm concerned.
My take on things? dealers will be adapting and having more runners peddling points of grams..... simple. Hell right now with the connections for good cocaine that I can muster up with a phone call..... I could literally make a killing if I hired a dozen or more runners carrying no more than "legal" limit.
Does nothing to curb the use of fentanyl, meth and other synthetic street drugs that are always sold by the point.... same goes for crack.... sold by the point. So a runner only needs to carry 25 points and off he goes. I'd be stacking bills like the biden family if I was a lesser man.
Now..... if they were to Legalize the growing of coca plant and opium poppy and legalize the use of these plants and thier extracts...... I'd be okay with that. I would be all for legal, adult use only businesses like the opium dens of the orient and other locales.
Just like I am an advocate for legalizing all forms of cannabis , I would also be willing to advocate for free and open use of these other plants as well.
But I will never, not in a million years, support a government model that decrimminalzes street meth, fentanyl and other cooked up poison.
I know functioning cocaine and heroin users. Have known them since my 20's and they have had thier habits all these years and I'm in my early 50's these days. None of them have died or even overdosed but the difference is, they have always been employed, own property and business and have always functioned like that. I do know that they get very high quality product and always have. They would never go outside thier circle to source it and they wouldn't touch meth or any of the other street drugs with a 10 foot pole.
So while I am for legalizing the use of the opium poppy and the coca plant , I am not for "decriminalizing" street drugs as a blanket way to fool the public. Vancouver and other BC communities are going to be feeling this decision big time in the property crime and trespass side of the criminal code.
no need to flame me, if you don't agree, that's okay, go back and read the beginning of the post again
I'd simply ask if the laws did anything to keep the departed alive or healthy? (*Admittedly it's somewhat a rhetorical question).
Then I'd point to Portugal and the successes they've had there with a very similar approach (for a long time now) with very close to what is being proposed in BC.
Any system can be gamed. We can find examples of that daily. The question in re. to harm reduction becomes what is the healthiest avenue for all parties involved. And I would like to think that Portugal's 'template' answers at least some of that.
I'd take it a step further and say, at a minimum, medicalize, or in a more perfect world, legalize, with no advertising and glitzy draw permitted. No sexy people lounging on the shores and shooting meth or smack. Just a simple part of reality. With people still being responsible for when they harm others.
It would also shut down the markets flooded with folks who will put what ever into their product to expand profits, and make the market healthier and safer overall.
I hope that didn't come across as any flaming. Just my fairly strong opinion, delivered rather modestly.
LOL same argument was made about legalizing cannabis over 4 years ago time has already proved those NARCS wrong.So while I am for legalizing the use of the opium poppy and the coca plant , I am not for "decriminalizing" street drugs as a blanket way to fool the public. Vancouver and other BC communities are going to be feeling this decision big time in the property crime and trespass side of the criminal code.
no need to flame me, if you don't agree, that's okay, go back and read the beginning of the post again
So no freedom of choice only legal drugs are ok "7 million from tobacco and 3 million for aclohol deaths per year" but illicit drugs that kill less then half a million mostly from a toxic supply should be banned.
Do the math buddy!
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moose eater
Well-known member
**Upon advice of another member, with security in mind, post edited/removed.
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moose eater
Well-known member
Those all have centuries of cultural acceptance, and the process of death often takes a much longer time period, unless discussing over-doses or vehicle accidents, suicides, etc.
It's your thread, and emotions can run high when folks have been subjected to any sort of grief, persecution, LOSS, etc., but Tom had asked not to be flamed while he expressed his honest personal opinion.
You'll get more discussion with kinder, less confrontational words. Trust me on that..
Edit: And I had more than one client who drank themselves into organic dementia and organ failure, laying in a cot in their living rooms, lying in bodily fluids, unaware of their surroundings, and being visited daily by home health care to clean them up, only to vegetate into another day. But those were fairly long term results from excessive drinking over time.
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I trust you on that you get more flies with honey then vinegar but I have no interests in getting more flies!
My father was dying of lung cancer but watching him go through DTs to get the lung operation was insane. They waited a little too long and the cancer had spread, he died two weeks later. Who should I blame society for allowing him to use those drugs or his choices? I choose fucking freedom and if narcs ask not to be flamed because they know someone who died from illicit drugs well fuck them! Cry me a fucking river! Because the math does not lie 7 million from tobacco 3 million from alcohol die each year but about half a million from illicit drugs mostly from a toxic supply caused by prohibition, DO THE MATH!
moose eater
Well-known member
Tom indicated he's had losses since the last 30+ years. HIs view of the source of that loss is different from your loss, other than it all involves human frailty and imperfection.
I had a client whose pops had cancer, was 3 days from death, and the pain was insurmountable. They spoke with his Doc, who absurdly referenced concerns re. addiction..... for a guy who would be dead in 72 hours. He wasn't going to be headed to Betty Ford.
There's been no winners in the War on (Some) Drugs, but for those who make money from it, and even for some of them, they're doing hardcore sentences in places that are less than promising. Both sides have incredible losses.
You and Tom are both caught in the middle and from what I can tell, neither of you is invested in any profit motive.
People lose freedom, body and mind function, life, future hopes, etc., and from both sides of this debate.
Your definition of 'narc' is way different than mine, and I watched that meaning change in the mid-1970s, when it became less clear what it meant.
The adopted brother of an estranged nephew of mine went into a coma from hypoxia, resulting from a Fentanyl OD. His adoptive mother was the person to agree to his being unplugged, after everyone said goodbye. Giving the go-ahead on turning the lights out on someone whose diapers she changed and lunches she packed. A HUGE fucking "WOW!!"
I believe she'd likely vote for criminalization, and longer sentencing, even though that hasn't stopped anything, and indirectly contributed to his heroin being laced with Fentanyl.
People swat at the bee and resent being stung, without giving much thought to the honey they eat.
Legalization, in my opinion, with a 'clean' regulated market, no advertising or opportunism permitted, through a licensed outlet like occurs in many places with alcohol, is one template for doing away with many of the harms.
But that transition is too far off and too far out for folks who've not adjusted the proverbial box they think, experience, or live in.
We're not quick to change, and losses, pain, etc., sometimes make us less so.
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moose eater
Well-known member
Now that the sun's going down, I'll quit monopolizing this thread for a bit, and go change my wife's headlight bulb..
Its best to replace both bulbs or so they say, personally I go one at a time too.
goingrey
Well-known member
So is there a safe supply aspect to this experiment?
moose eater
Well-known member
With brakes, yes, do both. With headlights, no. And certainly not at $20/bulb.
At this time, as far as I know, there's not. It's decrim, like with Portugal's efforts early on..
But BC also was one of the first in North America to have 'safe injection sites', so there's that aspect to maintaining some semblance of safety. If someone is using such a location and injects or ingests unsafe substances, then, in theory, there's a baby-sitter of sorts.
Narcan is available in the States. Not sure of BC's availability, but I'd imagine it's similar.
Years ago, with the date rape drugging at raves going on all too often via GHB, there were non-profits like 'Dance Safe'' and others who took some heat, but would set up at shows, raves, etc., and test ecstacy for purity for free to make sure folks weren't getting a mickey.
There's options for some safe-guards.
Marijuana kills ZERO people every year.
