Zamal genetics side by side test comparison grow

[funkyhorse]

For this 2022/23 season the first project is searching/discovering Zamal genetics
In this side by side grow there will be 9 different genetics coming from 3 different breeders consisting of polyhybrids, hybrids and pure races

It seems in the canna world breeders think the best is polyhybrids. All most famous breeders release their stock in the form of polyhybrid, so I have to assume breeders think is the best.

Proof is in the pudding

 

[funkyhorse]

Elite F1 x F2

Elite F1xF2: Very tamed and refined descendent of our Zamaldelica elite F1. This is the line that best captures the qualities of our Zamaldelica elite F1 'mango carrot' mother where the males with Zamal/Thai phenotypes reinforce the most electric and euphoric effects. Plants of moderate vigour, good robustness, short to moderate internode distance, short stretch, fast response to flowering and fast maturation for a sativa. Flowers of very good density, medium size and good flower to leaf ratio. Sweet, fruity, floral and musky terpenes. Clean, pleasant, euphoric and very well-focused effects. This line offers the most intense and refined terpenes, the highest amount of resin, and the shortest flowering times of 10-12 weeks. It will be ready for harvest outdoors in the second half of October

So in southern hemisphere this means it will be ready in second half of april. If it flowers for 12 weeks, it means it will show sex in january
So this is polyhybrid x polyhybrid making this a polypolyhybrid.
This stock is being sold for breeding purposes
What kind of breeding can you do with something like this? This is already bred

This should have been sold as breeder's selection. Because if this is what breeders think it is for breeding, no wonder the cannaworld is a total disaster with totally degraded weed

Males will be culled and girls will be smoked.
This is fast marihuana, what I call marihuana mcdonalds. I hope it is irish pub burger quality served with trappist belgium beer
If you like this stock, the only thing you can do is keep the cut or cross it to a pure race, crossing to a pure race will still have a lot of phenotypes to search on the first generation if that is your thing
So it is clear to me if this is what breeders think is for breeding stock, then cannabis breeders dont want you to have same or better quality in the progeny of their original stock

I had a low germination rate: 5 out of 12.

 

[funkyhorse]

Zamaldelica F3 Zamal/Thai

Zamaldelica F3 Zamal/Thai: Tamed offspring from our best F2 females and males of Zamal/Thai phenotypes, selecting for floral traits closely related to Meao Thai, but with much larger yields and shorter flowering times than usual for these Zamal/Thai phenotypes. This line produces already quite stable offspring, closer to the characteristics of Meao Thai in terms of the final product (woody, bitter lemon aromas and cat piss, with very nervy, electric effects), but with very manageable growth structures, floral structures and flowering times. Robust and columnar structure for a sativa. The flowers are voluminous, with a good flower to leaf ratio, and surprisingly good flower density for a sativa that was selected towards Thai qualities. Moderate resin production. Flowering: 11-12 weeks. Ready for harvest outdoors at the end of October/beginning of November

So this is another polyhybrid x polyhybrid
A little better germination rate than above, 6 out 12 seeds sprouted
Males will be culled and girls will be smoked.

The second plant counting from bottom was born trifoliate but it is coming out of the mutation

 

[funkyhorse]

Zamal A 75%

Zamal A 75%: Backcross to the pure Zamal A mother that gave rise to the first version of Zamaldelica. This is the line that best captures the essence of the pure Zamal 'mango carrot' phenotype (since 75% of its genetic content is Zamal A), although not as tamed as the Zamaldelica elite F1 offspring. Vigorous, highly branched plants with slender, flexible stems and short to moderate internode distance. Floral structures with very good density for a sativa, voluminous and with an excellent flower to leaf ratio, very resinous in the bracts. Woody, floral, fruity (mango) and sweet (sweet carrot juice) aromas and flavours, a little musky. Powerful euphoric and psychedelic effect. Flowering: 12 weeks. Ready for harvest outdoors at the end of October/beginning of November.

So this is the famous Gerrit cut. I have no clue who Gerrit is but his cut seems to be famous
Would have been more interesting to cross it to a Zamal pure race if this is supposed for breeding and not to polyhybrid in my opinion. I am afraid breeders worry too much about copying Colorado sativas style and all behave like little Monsantos
This one I will cross with mango karut pure race for some 87,5% Zamal cross
12 out of 12 seeds sprouted

 

[funkyhorse]

Double Zamal 75%

Double Zamal 75%: Offspring of the 'new' purple Zamal selected in 2015, which is characterised by being a very different pure Zamal from the Zamal 'mango carrot'. Purple Zamal is not fruity or sweet at all, and its flowering is longer than the Zamal A 'mango carrot' mother. Its terpene profile is woody with floral touches of violet petals. Purple Zamal has great vigour, strong lateral branching, semi-autoflowering tendencies and a very powerful psychedelic and energetic effect typical of the best Zamal, with the distinctive characteristic of acquiring beautiful purple and reddish tones with low temperatures at the end of flowering, a pigmentation that is rarely found in pure Zamal individuals. Therefore, the cross of pure Purple Zamal with Zamaldelica involves the union of 2 different and divergent Zamal genotypes, fused into a hybrid with 75% Zamal genetic content. Vigorous and well-branched plants, with slender, flexible stems and short to moderate internode distance. This is a wilder, tropical and longer-flowering line, which prefers to be grown outdoors in hot climates, although it will mature properly in cold climates as long as there is no frost. Voluminous floral structures with a good flower to leaf ratio, but not very dense and not so resinous. Powerful euphoric and psychedelic effect that can give some anxiety or panic to users not accustomed to this type of intense journey. Flowering: 14 weeks. Ready to harvest outdoors at the end of November/beginning of December.

12 out 12 seeds sprouted
All purple sativas I tried so far were lower quality than the green sisters. Why breeders select for purple sativas? I hope this purple one is much better than the rest of the purples.
I will cross with pure Zamal to obtain a 87,5% triple Zamal.

 

[funkyhorse]

Mango Zamal from Mandala.
Seeds are from 2010
Finally first hybrid and not polyhybrid!!

Just for info you can find this in madala shop



ype: 100% sativa
Genetics: Zamal, Reunion Island x Lakshmi, South India
Cultivation: indoor/outdoor/greenhouse
Flowering time: 80-100+ days/depends on location; multiple harvests possible
Yield: depends on location; multiple harvests possible
High: alert cerebral high with a pleasant calming effect, imaginative and creative, no negative side-effects and non-racy. The mellow sativa buzz allows you to dosage the high according to your own taste.
Aroma: mango, fruity, carrot, lemon cleaner.
Medical use: broad spectrum use. Zamal is used as a herbal remedy on La Réunion. Good for lethargy and depression as well.

Mango Zamal is a 100% sativa with a pleasurable cerebral high. In this landrace hybrid we have largely preserved zamal’s outstanding characteristics, but modified essential features so that it has become more stabilised and easier to grow. The decision to use a South Indian strain to complement zamal was based on our lifelong experience of breeding landraces optimally, plus the fact that the zamal is originally a blend of South Indian and African genetics. The aim of this edition Mango Zamal is to make these rare landrace genetics available for cultivators and breeders who appreciate pure, unique sativas.
There are several variations of zamal distinguished by aromatic qualities such as 'mango-carrot', 'citrus', 'peppery', 'earthy', and so on. The mango-carrot enjoys the best reputation for quality and taste. This landrace strain has the luxury of an on-going tropical season and can be harvested for many years on La Réunion, with impressive yields that would make any grower smile with delight. Zamal is a very strong and resistant plant, certainly a valuable trait on an island affected by hurricanes. For the zamal mother we selected a male parent from an old and reliable South Indian stock that has been tried and tested by us since we collected it in 1992. The particular male chosen for this project convinced us through many outstanding traits that will serve this zamal hybrid well. The new infusion of genes from the male has tamed the wild zamal sufficiently, so that it now offers the possibility of pre-sexing and cloning plants indoor before planting them outdoor. The Lakshmi genetics contribute: impressive stress resistance, controllable plant height, greatly enhanced calyx-leaf ratio, reduced flowering time, larger bud sites and more stability.
The aroma and taste of Mango Zamal is varied and depends on your soil type and other environmental factors. During flowering a mild Mango fragrance is not uncommon. It is usually overlayed by other stronger smells that range from carrot to citrus. The cured buds from some plants lean towards a fruity-honey aroma, whilst others have more of a lemon cleaner smell. The high starts up quickly with a slight pressure to the head that abides quickly. An alert yet calm state of mind follows and for the duration of the high you will find concentration and creativity enhanced. Mango Zamal is not overpowering and does not trigger any of the anxiety type side-effects typical to some sativas.

Indoor
Although Mango Zamal has been primarily created for outdoor you can flower the plants indoor under 400-600W HPS for sexing and selecting mother plants for cuttings. Some of the females can even be harvested indoor, although this is only recommended for special purposes since yield and resin production under artificial light is below average. The growth of Mango Zamal is vigorous, an important feature that allows an indoor life cycle of 14-16 weeks from seedling to harvest. 400-600W HPS is required for flowering and at least 250W HPS for growth or to maintain mother plants. Apart from requiring a strong light source, Zamal Lakshmi is relatively easy to grow and has no special needs. The native zamal is known to be best left to grow naturally without artificial fertilizing. This has been verified through our own observations and still applies to this cross. It is very nutrient efficient and prefers to take what it needs from the soil. A quality soil mix in a 12-15L/3 gallon container should suffice for the duration of one harvest. In case a mistake is made with soil quality or container size you can provide a mild feeding to top up nutrients. Avoid "hot" soil mixes with a high EC or a lot of nitrogen. Start the 12/12 light cycle after 5-10 days in soil if you do not intend to prune the plants. Most plants show sex within 10+ days. The majority of unpruned females will reach approx. 140cm in soil. They grow tall, slim head buds, with the typical 3 finger-leaves of the native zamal strain. Indoor branching is moderate and restricted to the bottom third part of the plant. The shoots tend to arch upward, remaining close to the main stem, which contributes to the SOG-friendly growth pattern. Resin production requires patient waiting, it starts after 40 days of flowering and picks up at day 60+. The high calyx-leaf ratio makes harvesting very simple and fast.

Outdoor
This strain should be cultivated, or at least flowered, outdoors where it can show its full potential. Multiple harvests are possible and the plants can easily be reverted back to vegetative growth. Mango Zamal may show remarkable longevity (the 'immortality gene' as we like to call it) and become a long-term companion in your garden! The maritime climate on La Réunion is tropical and humid, very similar to the Hawaiian islands. During the summer the temperature averages 26°C/79°F on the coast, in winter it can drop to around 20°C/68°F or less. Our Mango Zamal is perfect for all hot, Mediterranean or tropical-humid regions, in addition to areas with a warm summer & autumn. It is recommended for equatorial countries with constant 12/12 daylight where other strains fail to grow properly. Mango Zamal is not especially sensitive to a cooler climate and can flower well as long as the temperatures sustain healthy plant metabolism (above 20°C/68°F during night recommended). Mold and pest resistance is high. Please consult the detailed climate map in our OUTDOOR GUIDE where you can best grow this strain.
In a greenhouse/outdoor it’s wise to prune the females and grow multi-branch plants with a height that suits your requirements. Under good conditions it is not unusual to get a high % of females. Although true hermaphrodites are rare you should check your females in the first weeks of flowering for any suspicious signs of male flowers to be on the safe side. The same tips regarding soil mix and avoiding potent fertilizers indoor apply to growing this strain outdoor. Read the FERTILIZING GUIDE on our website for more info and use "soft" organic soil additives such as worm castings or compost. The original zamal has very long 'tentacles' of colas, with small bud sites covered by many slim, lime green leaves that are not much fun to trim after harvest. This has been radically improved! With Mango Zamal you can expect large foxtail-like colas, with a high calyx-leaf ratio, that can be quickly trimmed and dried.

Very interesting hybrid, I hope it behaves like F1. Hopefully I will make F2s of this
The plant in the bottom is a symetric trifoliate, it is growing with almost same vigour than the rest of the family
It is the first time I see symetrical growth in trifoliates and good vigour. It is the first time I sprout seeds and make all veg outdoors
10 out of 10 seeds sprouted in just 48 hours, excellent remarkable preservation by the seedbank

 

[goingrey]

Zamal A 75%

So this is the famous Gerrit cut. I have no clue who Gerrit is but his cut seems to be famous
Would have been more interesting to cross it to a Zamal pure race if this is supposed for breeding and not to polyhybrid in my opinion. I am afraid breeders worry too much about copying Colorado sativas style and all behave like little Monsantos
This one I will cross with mango karut pure race for some 87,5% Zamal cross
12 out of 12 seeds sprouted
View attachment 18779208

Gerrit is the guy behind a seed company called Magus Genetics that was later sold to Serious Seeds. Famous for strains like Warlock and Biddy Early.

There is a thread about the cut here: https://www.icmag.com/threads/zamal-gerrits-selected-cut.98076/

 

[funkyhorse]

Thaidelica

Thaidelica: Incorporation of a new Thai in the breeding with Zamaldelica. Pollination of pure Thai Chiang Mai with Zamaldelica F2 male Zamal/Thai phenotypes has led to the creation of a new Thai- dominant hybrid (62.5% Thai: 50% Thai Chiang Mai, 12.5% Meao Thai, 25% Zamal A and 12.5% Malawi). This line is the one that best captures the personality and final product of Thai (woody, lemony aromas, green tea, cat piss, and strong euphoric effect without ceiling) in a more desirable and consistent way, but with much higher yields, better adaptability to indoor cultivation and shorter flowering times than the pure Thai, although the size of the plants is larger than the Zamaldelica F3 Zamal/Thai line. Vigorous and well-branched plants, with slender, flexible stems and moderate to long internode distance. Wilder, tropical and longer-flowering line, which prefers to be grown outdoors in hot climates, although it will mature properly in cold climates as long as there is no frost. Voluminous floral structures with a flower to leaf ratio that is, on average, more mediocre than the other lines, and with flowers that are not as dense or resinous. Powerful Thai effect, more positive and better-focused than the Zamaldelica phenotypes that tend towards Meao Thai. Flowering: 12-13 weeks. Ready to harvest outdoors in the second half of November.

Out of the Zamaldelica breeders pack, this one has the least Zamal on it. This one in fact belongs to my next Thai project I am sprouting next month
I am intending to do a triple Thai with this strain crossing this with my Northern Thailand boys. Males will be culled
11 out of 12 sprouted

Bugs have been tasting the goods. I like it, they tried it and never came back for more. The rest of the plants have not been attacked. Zamal has good bug resistance, Thai too

At the end of the month I am sprouting Kalite Tizane, Mango Karut and Mauritius x Ethiopian packs to complete the 9 strains for this test grow

 

[Nannymouse]

I don't understand. I am not trying to be snarky, but i suppose it will sound that way. Yet, i am curious enough to chance getting yelled at, ha.

Why are you growing this? You complained about the plants' breeding and breeder practices all the way.

 

[funkyhorse]

Hi there Nanny
Look, it is not a complain at all but facts
Whoever breeder you choose to grow their stock is similar. Shady info and polyhybrids so you cant get decent progeny. It is what it is
Since Nevil and SamS, all breeders release the same kind of breeding. Indica x sativa or sativa x indica and polybybrids to avoid plagiarism.
It is polyhybrid breeding all the way down from them. And I believe this practice by breeders is because of other breeders copying it and selling at half price or changing names, so they release genetics in such a way that it is not possible to obtain decent progeny out of it
It is not just one breeder. It is almost all breeders

Breeders think they should have some kind of copyright on their genetics and they think it crossing plant A x plant B is a creation which shpould be treated as intellectual property and copyrighted so in order not to be plagiarized by other breeders this is what you get as a customer

So I am growing this stock because I think this is probably some of the better genetics available commercially and I am expecting to get some decency out of this.
Then again, I might get disapointed as I am disappointed with most of the stock I have grown so far

I am particularly growing Zamals because this Mango Pepper girl is the best weed I got from this year harvest with 4 months cure so far. But her sister which had PM isnt that good at all so I am searching on the genetics. The only way to find and check is to try everything out from polyhybrids to pure race
The way modern genetics is bred leaves no choice

I simply cant believe that commercial paraguayan brick or commercial cambodian brick is much better than all the canna releases. Too much hype

 

[goingrey]

The pure/unhybridized Zamal (same line Gerrit's cut is from) was available for many years in the GN Collection.

 

[funkyhorse]

Probably all seedbanks that work or have worked with Zamal are descendants of that same GN stock

 

[goingrey]

Probably all seedbanks that work or have worked with Zamal are descendants of that same GN stock

For sure an important contribution to the commercial seed genepool by Gypsy and Cristophe (who he got it from).

But as FTS has two varieties from Réunion, maybe their "Mangu Karot" is actually from a different source? Will be very interesting to see how they turn out for you.

 

[RyanR]

Breeders are breeding for bag appeal, potency, yield, flower time, select terpenes, commercial use etc. Look at some of the current strains being grown. The lab results don't lie, they are more potent then likely anything ever produced. What your growing in it's current state has zero commercial value. So if a breeder pops a 1000 seeds plus and finds something special that means nothing because it's not a pure landrace strain? Let me guess all these hype strains are so weak and lacking compared to all the mids from the 70s 80s etc ?

 

[LostTribe]

Consider me seated. Not sure I can remain seated!

Are you running French Touche Mangu Karot?

 

[funkyhorse]

Hi there LT!
Yes, I am sprouting French Touch Seeds Mango Karut and K1 Kalite Tizane a pack each at the end of the month
K1 seems to be a different line from Gypsy. I am not sure if Mango Karut is different from Gypsy stock.
Not clear info about it

Mango Karut and K1 should sex in february. And the polyhybrids according to finnishing times published at ace should sex in january or beinning february but I am not sure.
I will also run Mauritius x Ethiopian from Ace. And I have a few hybrids I did with Mango Karut boy but I think I will leave them for the future, I want to learn the genetics

I dont understand what labs call potency. Do they call potency to narcotic strains hitting 30% THC at their lab tests? The sativas need 4 months cure minimum to reach their potential.
Fpor sure the 70s and 80s weed mids were much better around the planet. It was preparaquat brick weed with minimum 6 months curing times. It kicked ass and all that weed is gone now

This is what I think about canna science, I got this quote as poster in my wall

Dont believe the bullshit you have been told by people who have doctorates in science but have never had enough experience in the real world outside the laboratory.
The cannabis scene is full of people with phd in nothing but fantasy.

Find out for yourself and then you will no longer believe everything you read on the internet my friend.
The oil made from good cobs is also highly active without de carbing.
I call bullshit on this whole decarbing thing and a lot of other crap I read from so called experts.
It makes me laugh some of the fantasy I read that people swallow as gospel just because it came from someone in a lab coat.
This is easy to fix and you can make up your own mind.

I'm sure some science minded person will come up with a scientific reason why it works.
After all if its not scientifically proven we cant be getting high can we ha ha.

 

[Nannymouse]

Thank you for the kind answer. i'm old. When the first weed hit my area of the world, the seeds just were not suited for the climate or weather. I am old enough to remember the good weed from Mexico, very sativa. I assume that it was some sort of poly hybrid sativa that 'originated' from parts of Asia. Then came some other sativas from South America. None of it would grow in the second coldest state in the USA...at least not finish. And all that we had for indoor light, was incandescent or flouro shop lights.

It wasn't until the Affies came along, that we could find anything to finish. The Affies and other indica were also, very much a mixed lot, not anything that i could call 'pure' anything. Phenos all over the place.

When the first big wave of 'trading' began in about year 2000, there really wasn't all this concern about keeping lines pure, it was just getting something that would GROW in your area, or with what indoor set up that was available. People were trading happily, and giving out many seeds for medical use. (Does anyone here remember the PacAire 'club'?) A big change also happened when focus went to finding the 'elite cuts'.

With the advent of passing elite cuts around, the 'breeding' tightness concerns were overshadowed. No big hunts for a certain 'pheno' in a seedline were nearly as much of a concern.

Many of the famous seedbanks/breeders got their stock from those trades.

Maybe i just have an old timey look on things. I am all for the 'preservation' of lines. But these attitudes about how the poly hybrids are somehow inferior is what i don't understand. I believe that every darn 'pure' line out there is a result of poly hybridization. Early humans traded and moved about, and the weed went with. And by this reasoning, i have no qualms with poly hybrids or their breeders. Haze is poly. OG is poly. To me, they are ALL poly. Thai is definitely poly. Just in some cases, they acclimated to their surroundings. North American Cannabis is in the process of acclimating...and with climate change, it will continue.

I am grateful to have the plant in all its diverse forms.

I appreciate what you are doing, as well as the poly breeders. Cannabis was around long before we were, and i have a spiritual/religious belief that it knows what it's doing.

 

[RyanR]

Honestly I don't think any strain on the planet requires a 4 month cure and truly don't understand how smashing buds into a brick and destroying trichromes could ever yield a better product. Lab results are higher in every aspect. Definitely including terpenes. Smelliest most flavor ridden weed being produced now then ever produced.

No disrespect but when I read ads like this all I can think is nostalgia and low tolerance to be the reasoning. Regardless to each their own. Mid smoker's unite. Pesky new age unseeded weed not even properly smashed into a brick while still wet. How dare these millenials destroy what was once good and pure.

 

[funkyhorse]

I am not growing weed for flavour or terps
I am not growing weed for narcotic properties
If you will smash your indica buds into a brick what you will get is worse
Your indica buds were always made hash in the 20th century, never smoked as buds.
Sativas were made brick in the 20th century
I love hash too but this thread is about a pure tropical sativa which flowers for 120 days outdoors aproximately and needs equal time to cure properly and get strong, and its hybrids or polyhybrids
Zamal seems to get stronger as time passes by and this is the kind of weed I look for and want to grow

I grow weed to get high and I can grow pure tropical sativas in my greenhouse
To every person its own
I am not against millennials but I am against anyone of any age who mouth too much without having any experience about what they talk about

I care about quality of effects and I seem to find the effects I like in slow curing long flowering sativas, it matches what I smoked in 32 years of backpacking around the planet and it is not something that you can grow easily in Usa or away from the tropics as other forum members point out

 

[Nannymouse]

I was gifted Zamal beans from a dear member here. I assume, 'originally' from Ace. (Also some Zamaldelica beans, etc, now have a nice assortment of 'sativa' seed, if i can ever grow them out). So, i'll be watching these experiments, closely.

edit: you sort of answered my question in your last post, while i was typing.