Yet Another First Grow...

[greengringo]

Thanks for the encouraging words, Z!

The plants seem like they're doing fine, but it just keeps getting hotter and hotter! I know they are radiating heat as they get bigger and taking up more space underneath the light, but I got to find a way to get the temps down. They're mostly sativas so they are taking the hot summer in stride, but I am starting to notice the very tips of ALL of the leaves turning brown and dry. It gets up to 95 F (this is about 10 degrees over the ideal temp for photosynthesis) and even though I took out the cinches to raise the light as high as possible, the plants are at exactly 18 inches from the light. If they get any taller, should I be worried? The blue diesels are almost as tall as the light so I just pushed them to the side of the light.

I guess maybe the bottleneck here is my exhaust fan, it's only 4". I could buy a 6" fan, or I could buy a wall AC unit and find a way to work that in... not a lot of room for that. Or I could buy some bug screen and tape it up over the doorway and just leave the zippered tarp open for a few hours when the lights are on. Though air would enter because I have a fan pushing exhaust out somewhere else. I could rework the ducting so that the fan pulls air through that filtered air duct and then pushes the air out passively (though the zippered tarp and that air exhaust port) but then I wouldn't have air cooling the light...

What would you do?

 

[greengringo]

A quick update... temps had been creeping up to 95, 96 degrees F. Not good by the looks of the plants, every leaf tip is starting to dry out and turn tan and now curl upwards as well. What I have done to try to remedy this is bought some screen mesh to put over the open tarp while the light is on. I was told not to hook up a fan as an intake because that would cause positive pressure in the room which is bad for the plants. So I am going to try to wait out this summer heat and just open the door to vent out some of this hot air. Wish I had the money or the space for an AC...

In general the growth looks good, each couple days I have been plucking a few big leaves on the inside that doesn't look too healthy or is blocking too much undergrowth from getting light (or not getting light itself) and also some of the smaller new growth near the base or small buds developing on the lower branches but not nearly getting enough growth. Buds getting bigger, hairier, trichomier, plants have pretty much finished growing taller but they keep seeming to get bushier as well as having more voluminous buds.

Pump up the volume!

Last thing that I recently thought about is that because of the obvious difference in the two plants originally marked ISS is that the shorter, indica-leaning plant will crop faster than its siamese twin in the same bucket. So I guess I will have to stop feeding that bucket the bloom nutes in time for it to ripen. But I don't have any time estimates for any of these strains besides reading 10-11 weeks for G13-Haze. I'm not sure what I'm going to do after these flowers finish, I have a couple seeds that I could try to sprout, or I could just trim the buds off of these plants and put them back under 24 hour light and take clones for myself or to trade (or both, just to be safe - this is probably what I'll do).

We are 39 days into it now and I just fed them grow nutes with their watering last night. Unless I read anything that suggests differently, I'll probably feed that bucket nutes once more in a week, then only give it pure water for what, another 2 weeks, and then the short one should be looking ready for trimming. At that point, if I don't totally chop the smaller one, should I feed it nutes once more because the ISS plant still has another 2-3 (or more?) weeks to go? And then flush again, etc. Sound right?

While I originally thought I would feel impatient at the waiting time to receive a succesful harvest, I am finding that time is flying by and I am quite entertained by the daily changes that the plants exhibit. I look forward to the minor daily maintenance required. I can't imagine how much fun is lost when you use those mechanical systems that calibrate everything for you. How do you learn about what the plants need that way? By setting a machine to a few numbers that you read in this book or that?

Everyone should grow some of their own food and medicine! I'm looking forward to trying some fermentation experiments later in the summer when it cools down a bit. So far, some friends and I have only brewed up a few ales, but I want to try some homemade pickles and sauerkraut. Anyone else interested in fermented foods? Got any tips or recipes to share?

 

[greengringo]

Here are some photos of what I finally did to lower the temps and humidity a bit... I put up a screen.

Now the temps get up to 89/90 at the very hottest and it brings the humidity down as well just by getting more air flow.

Side view of the screen. I stapled some velcro tape on the frame and screen corners and halfway down. Now I can just put it up and take it down in seconds.

So, yeah. I've decided to pass on a dehumidifier or AC for now because it is already starting to get chilly at night again. I can tell that most of the year, my problem is going to be keeping the plants warm and not too dry, not trying to cool them off, and I really can't afford either an AC or dehumidifier right now.

I guess that makes my next question - what do I do about harvest? I would like to not chop them down totally so I can put them back under 24 hour light and take clones from them. But I've also noticed that the buds on top are ripening a lot quicker than the lower buds.

Can I trim a few of the big, ripe buds off the tops of the plants and let the other buds continue to grow? This seems like it should work, except that if I'm going to flush my plants well before I take the first buds, will the other buds continue to grow with no nutes? If the plant is weakened too much before harvesting, would trimming a few big branches be too much for the plant to let it continue to grow for a couple more weeks? Or could I add some more nutes right after harvesting some buds to give it some life, and then only water for another 2 weeks before the other buds develop some more?

Or is this why people on ICMag spend so much time getting an even canopy, trimming small buds and focusing on colas and a few big top buds and then just flushing and chopping the plant all at once? A friend of mine said to chop everything at once to make room for the next crop, but like I said, I'd like to take clones so I won't have to buy more, and I was planning on using my growspace as my drying space (though that also won't work if I harvest buds while the plants continue to grow).

Questions, questions...

 

[Zealious]

Temperature can be a real pain in the rear in our world. anything over 78 f and 60 humidity is going to damper the end product. Your buds will be airy and plants lanky.

A few things you can do if you cant lower the temps.. is water less but moree frequent. put the plants roots in something light colored to reflect heat. when the plants are under higher temps they also speed up the moabolizim maintain adequate air exchange in the room. increase the nurients. and most of all INCREASE LIGHT. heck they are already hot and probly going to start stretching.. so get that light closer. IMO.

but really you need to focus on the issue at hand.

what is you ambient temperature in your basement throughought the day?

when is your dark cycle? during the day or night?

what is the cfm of the fan you are using?

what other fans do you have/ what fan can you afford? what is the cuft of your room...

where you live and since you are in a basement. is the basement hooked up to heating or ac system?

what wattage is your light again?

if odor control is not the biggest concern then there is nothing wrong with some active intake.. its helpful if you dont have a big enough exhaust. just make sure your intake fan is less powerfull than the exhaust and you will still have a neg pressure.

its also good to do seperate ducting/fan for the reflector and the filter..

optimaly you have the smaller fan drawing air from outside the flower room... some where cooler ... then pulling the air throught your light to cool it down and then pulling the air to another place far away from the grow to remove the heat..

remember fans pull better than pushing... keep ductings lengths and bends to a minimum...

you dont need odor control on this since its getting the air from somewhere outside the flower room..

then you can use your larger fan to just exhaust while hooked up to the filter... make sure you exhaust this heat away from the grow as well...

calculate how much cfm you need to exhaust the room effeciently

it sounds like you might need a larger fan. but i dont think you will need an ac... what can filter do you have.. it looks too big for that fan it might be restricting the air flow a lot...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112862&highlight=calculate+cfm

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=95259&highlight=calculate+cfm

 

[Zealious]

im typing on my cell phone so please don judge me.. lol

i see one problem is your exhausting to the door way. Exhaust further away.

you need to remove the heat. you have a dryer vent near by yes? hook up to that. or tap into the celing.. get the heat away my friend. Im wondering if keeping the door open is helping you out; because its exhausting more... or the added intake air... I would guess the first. that carbon filter is waaaaay to big for that fan. get a bigger fan.

if a 8" fan is not much more money than the 6 inch// then go with the 8 ... you already have the speed dial its always better to go bigger then to just barely meet the requirements.. down the road you will be greatful that you can now use this 8 inch fan in ur 12x12 room

 

[greengringo]

Temperature can be a real pain in the rear in our world. anything over 78 f and 60 humidity is going to damper the end product.

Yeah, I've started to realize that.. when the plants were smaller, the room temps were lower, even with the same bulb. But as they grew, they retain a ton of heat. They didn't show any signs of discomfort until maybe 4 or 5 weeks ago with the dry curling leaf tips, but now with the screen they are doing just fine again. Did you mean to say anything over 78 F? That seems really low.. at nights during its coolest point of the day (low temp) you mean? I think I read that photosynthesis occurs ideally at around 86 and drops off quickly especially over 90.

Also, my humidity has been hovering between 50-68%. I read that plants tolerate higher temps with higher humidity and vice versa, but what should I worry about because of the humidity - besides mold? Without an AC or dehumidifier, which budget also doesn't allow right now, is there any efficient way to lower humidity? I had been watering more but less often for that reason.. and I figure DampRid probably would be wasted money unless I am drying the buds. Humidity should drop really soon now that summer is coming to an end.

The roots are in these black plastic bags inside white 5 gal buckets, so they are already as you suggested, reflecting the light/heat but also fully protected from the light. Let's see if I can answer all your questions..

I had to look back at my thread to remember the exact dimensions and I put 6'x7'x4' but now I don't even remember which was length and which was height. So I guess my cubic feet is 168 (plus a little more because of the shelving). I wanted to figure out yield estimates... something tells me not to expect even half of 450g/m^2 (35.8 oz??). But for 6'x4' = 24 sq ft, 2.25m^2, and a 600/400W bulb, any rough idea what I might get for a yield?

I have the 12-12 cycle turning the light on at 8pm, running the lights at night during the coolest part of the day, and the temperatures range from 85-87 F at the hottest to between 77-80 at coolest.

Temperatures outside here have been ranging in the 90s during the day and down to 70 F at night.

I started out with a 600W HPS bulb, but when the plants reached their max height and also max temps, I switched to a bulb my friend gave me which was supposed to be 400W. It was physically smaller, but it doesn't seem any less bright or hot. it didn't lower the temps any, hence the screen. CFM on the fan I'm not sure of, it's a 4" fan and that's a 6" can filter (when I was buying the filter I said I wasn't sure if it was a 4 or 6 inch fan and they said go with the larger filter, it shouldn't slow down the air and you'll be glad you had more filter... live and learn). It may well be too small, but budget really doesn't allow for a fan right now. Maybe by the start of the next grow...

Other fans: I have one tall oscillating fan blowing back and forth between the 3 plants and I have one smaller fan on the back shelves basically blowing across the tops of the plants to circulate air under the light and through the plants.

Basement isn't hooked up to the central air, we have a gas furnace which we haven't run since March and I think we have AC but we haven't run it this summer because it is a comfortable temperature with the windows open. Basically, there aren't really furnace openings to heat/cool the basement, air just comes in through the one entrance with stairs (and there is a door to the outside as well as a passageway to the upstairs house there so fresh air). So the exhaust air being piped away just into the basement is keeping the grow room the same temp because it's pulling that air right back in passively, which is keeping the room hot for now but because it will be cold the rest of the year, I'm hoping this will keep the room and the house warm.

 

[greengringo]

Pic update. I used a digital camera instead of my iPhone for these money shots.

The garden is looking NICE! Every day I have to come down just to admire it.

Blue Diesel - lovely looking buds but the leaves are pretty wilted. Starting to produce a faintly sweet odor, but I think the blueberry scent is just in my mind.

Island Sweet Skunk - this lady smells lovely, an equal balance of lemony citrus and musky afghani skunk. I've found ISS at a few local dispensaries and I've liked how it smelled but it was always fairly mild. This is the most lovely smell when the plant is live and blooming.

This is the unknown plant which is developing quite a nice scent itself, though distinctly more musky than the ISS. It's earthy but also a bit sweet and reminds me of toffee.

G13 Haze - This plant is really starting to catch up to the others now and is finally starting to produce the odor and the bud size of the others from a couple weeks ago.

:yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay:

 

[Raedwulf]

I'm impressed, greengringo. Your plants look fantastic (nice camera work too).

 

[greengringo]

Thanks Raedwulf! Glad to know other people think my stuff is turning out nice

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

Why do iphone users feel compelled to tell the world that they use their phone to take a pic?

 

[Douche_Bigalow]

In the state of CA if you do not have a state issued card the state or local police offices do not have to go by a DOC rec. The only sure fire way to be safe in ca is to pay for the card...(not the card from the doc but the one from the state, mine is numbered in the 97000.)

 

[greengringo]

Why do iphone users feel compelled to tell the world that they use their phone to take a pic?

I think photographers in general share what camera they are using. I don't see how it affects you in any way if you aren't interested. I know you'd like to think of it as bragging and I'm sorry that you seem to have some pent-up envy towards iPhone users (it has been the best camera on a phone for the last year) but actually I was apologizing for the quality of the pictures not being up to par with a more modern point-and-shoot like the later pictures were.

Thanks for allowing me to answer a snide rhetorical question.

 

[greengringo]

I poured out the drainage trays the other day and noticed a lot of tiny white flecks on the surface of the water. My first thought was that it was just dust from the holes in the fiberboard, but when I looked closer I saw small bugs that flipped around like Mexican jumping beans. I read on here that they're called springtails or thrips and that they are mostly harmless (at least not as much as spider mites or aphids) so I'm going to try to ignore them until I see any problems. I checked both sides of the leaves of all plants and saw no eggs, black dots, webs, or anything, and I haven't seen any more of those bugs anywhere so I guess they are just in the soil. Strange that they'd only appear now after months of growing, so I guess they might not have come from the soilless mix. Unless they were there the entire time and I never noticed.

I felt like I had ants crawling all over my skin until I read that they probably won't hurt the plants. I was so worried I had some kind of fatal infestation right before harvest :-\

Otherwise, everything is looking in tip top shape.

 

[Raedwulf]

Hi greengringo, been a bit busy last few weeks and have only just managed to read through your thread properly. I have a few thoughts on some of your previous questions.

I was told not to hook up a fan as an intake because that would cause positive pressure in the room which is bad for the plants.

I think the biggest problem with the slight over-pressure that might build up is the potential leakage of smelly air out of the grow area - instead of through the filter. I don't think that the relatively small over-pressure will make much difference to the growth of the plants, but it could certainly help you with temperature control. On balance the benefit balances the risk - in my humble opinion.

While I originally thought I would feel impatient at the waiting time to receive a succesful harvest, I am finding that time is flying by and I am quite entertained by the daily changes that the plants exhibit. I look forward to the minor daily maintenance required. I can't imagine how much fun is lost when you use those mechanical systems that calibrate everything for you. How do you learn about what the plants need that way? By setting a machine to a few numbers that you read in this book or that?

Totally with you on that, buddy.

Can I trim a few of the big, ripe buds off the tops of the plants and let the other buds continue to grow?

Absolutely, yes.

Will the other buds continue to grow with no nutes?

The buds will continue to mature. As the end of the plant's cycle approaches, she will actually start dumping unused nutrients out of her roots (this is why we flush, to help the girls' rid themselves of unwanted nutes.

Of course, this is my opinion and others may disagree. Anyway, keep up the good work buddy.

 

[Raedwulf]

I poured out the drainage trays the other day and noticed a lot of tiny white flecks on the surface of the water. My first thought was that it was just dust from the holes in the fiberboard, but when I looked closer I saw small bugs that flipped around like Mexican jumping beans. I read on here that they're called springtails or thrips and that they are mostly harmless (at least not as much as spider mites or aphids) so I'm going to try to ignore them until I see any problems. I checked both sides of the leaves of all plants and saw no eggs, black dots, webs, or anything, and I haven't seen any more of those bugs anywhere so I guess they are just in the soil. Strange that they'd only appear now after months of growing, so I guess they might not have come from the soilless mix. Unless they were there the entire time and I never noticed.

They sound like fungus gnat larvae to me. Adult gnats are attracted to damp, warm soil and soil like mediums in order to lay their eggs. These hatch out into tiny white larvae that whip around like demented sperm when in water (in an attempt not to drown).
In the early stages of plant growth, they get into the roots and can cause a lot of harm. But at this late stage (IMHO) they probably won't make much difference.

Also, don't know if you've already found it yet or not but I think that this thread is the best place to start for diagnosing and fixing all kinds of growing problems. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

Peace.

 

[grassott]

Nice grow man. When I grew in soil I had them little white things too. Never done any harm to my crop. Now I grow in hempy buckets. No more bugs at all AND I get much bigger yields. Just thought I'd share. Peace.

 

[Zealious]

AWESOME BUDS buddy


So your temps in the base ment are 90 during the day and 70 at night??

man you need to cool that basement off?

Oh and a can 33 is waaaaay to big for that little 4 inch fan you are highly reducing the air flow...try runing it without the filter for a while see if it improves temps...

as far as temps it is gernearly strain specific. but for an optimal indoor enviroment because the light is not as bright as the sun and there is no natural breeze or ample amounts of co2.. its best to keep temps around 75.. also this prevents bugs... mold... all kinds of problems down the line.. will keep buds tighter and sometimes promotes coloring in some strains.

trust me.. u dont want to go over 80 really..

yea hopefully when it cools down your basement will be much cooler so you should have no problems...

 

[Zealious]

oh and try using diotomaceous earth... neem oil with pytherins.. (there is a concentrate of this at lowes called green bright) for larve mosquito dunks are awesome.. IVe heard.. never tried it but break off a little mosquito dunk and put it in watering can for a while.. then water with this.. but personaly I think DE is the best.. not toxic and works AMAZING.

 

[Superhoops]

Yet Another First Grow...

Looks great it must be great to live in a state that has relaxed the laws on growing etc...gonna sub to this thread.

 

[greengringo]

Thanks for all the great info guys. I'm taking this all into consideration, and I'll have to check out hempy buckets for sure, heard a lot of great stuff about them on the forums. I better start planning now for the next season since this one is finishing up soon, try to correct everything now and let it just run on autopilot without any worries. Diatomaceous earth is something I read about years ago and wanted to use when I eventually started growing, but I didn't put any in. Although I haven't seen many more of those little white bugs so I'm not feeling threatened by them anymore. They'll be gone soon enough...