Yellow leafs and brown dots (fotos)

[Tommy G]

Hi friends! Sorry to open a thread, but I'm not shure what's happening so I'd like to have some opinions before acting...

What STRAIN are you growing? SAD, Afghani #1, Black Jack and Ruderalis Indica (the ones that are afected).

What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) SAD and R. Indica from seed, other from clone.

What is the age of your plants? 30 days.

How Tall are the plants? 10-20cm, as you can see in the fotos.

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Going from vegetative to flowering.

What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) SOG

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 7litre containers (20x20cm)

What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) BioBizz Lightmix

What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* I feed them few times. I use BioHeaven and BioBloom at very low doses.

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? I don't measure it, Light Mix says it is 1,2 EC

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? I don't measure PH either, because I use bottled water with a PH of 5,8 and Lightmix is 6,1 - 6,3PH

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? XXX

How often are you watering? Approx 2 times each week, when the soil looks dry.

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? I fed them yesterday with BioBloom with 1,5ml per 1l of water and spread some worm humus in the top of the soil trying to give them some N.

What size bulb are you using? 100wHPS veg and 400wHPS flower. They have been with the 100wHPS till yesterday (when I took the pics)

What is the distance to the canopy? 20cm to the 100wHPS and now 35cm to the 400wHPS

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) No idea but it may have been around 50% in the last few days

What is the canopy temperature? Dark period range from 18ºC to 24ºC and light period range from 22ºC to 26ºC.

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) Idem..

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) Plants are in a bath, door opened and a powerful fan...

Is the fan blowing directly at plants? No, just a couple of hours per day.

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? I try to let it dry before watering again.

Is your water HARD or SOFT? Is bottled water...

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water?
Distilled? Mineral Water? Mineral bottled water.

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? No.

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? No, just neem oil, 2 times in 10 days.

Are plant's infected with pest's? They had a few spidermites but for now the problem is controlled.
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It may be a N deficiency but I'm not shure and I kind'a doubt is only that. Leafs are pale green, I would call it yellow and seem more yellow when I look directly at them than in the pictures. It also may be some micro nutrient deficiency, like iron, calcium, magnesium, etc. I have some other plants together with this ones, being treated the same way, and they don't look like this. Best clue: I finished an AllMix 50L soil bag and started using a LightMix bag, so those 5 plants that seem to be ill are the ones with the Lightmix which is a poorer soil mix. AllMix is 2,4EC and LightMix is 1,2EC.

About the micronutrients I use low doses of Bioheaven, which is rich in many micros, so I'm considering to give them a high dose of Bioheaven next time I water them. Bottle says 2-5ml per litre of water and I've been giving only 1-2ml. I gave them a bit of biobloom yesterday because, even at low %, it also has Nitrogen so, together with the worm humus I tried to introduce, it could solve a Nitrogen deficiency.

PH could also be a problem, specially when they show 2 different symptoms (the yellowing and the brown spots), but as it is only happening with those 5 plants and the others are healthy, I'm not considering it a strong factor. Also, as I said, I use bottled water with 5,8PH and the soil is 6,1 - 6,3.



I leave 2 fotos of 2 affected plants and then 2 fotos where you can see them all and understand that the others are ok:





This one was taken 3 days ago, but it was already easy to find the ones that were going to get sick:



Their "mothers" that I have flowering for 20 days now, were pretty healthy in the day they were in the same phase (going from veg to flowering phase), and yes, they had BioBizz Allmix instead of Light Mix. Here they are:



Thanks for the help and sorry for my poor english

 

[Guest]

ola td bem, olha logo a cabeça deves ter o ph baixo (devias estar nos 6.5/7), e nao podes usar agua mineral sem ser mt bem escolhida pq agua de garrafa tem mt sodio que faz mal as plantas.

mas como sao indicas aguentam bem acho eu...

se estao verdes claras, dalhes 1ml de biogrow que devem ficar bem, mas esses pontos castanhos devem ser do ph...dalhes agua da torneira que tem um ph bem mais alto, deixa so a agua um dia a repousar pq das impurezas.

as indicas precisam de mt mais N do que as sativas, e como estao em light mix, acabam como N do solo num instante...

nao segues o calendario da biobizz?para indicas funciona mt bem
abraço

 

[Tommy G]

Olá! Obrigado!

As you understand english I'll answer you in english so the rest of the people can understand what we're talking about.

As I first said, it doesn't seem to be a PH problem because it isn't happening with all the plants and they are being treated the same way except for the soil mix.

I would consider the difference between Indicas and Sativas as you say (Indicas need more N than Sativas) but my plants are all mostly Indica, only Black Jack is 50%/50% Indica/Sativa and she also shows the same problem (in fact she was the first to get yellow...).

Next time I water them I'll use a water with a PH around 6,5 and I may feed them with a bit of Biogrow (for the N) and some BioHeaven at a higher dose for the micronutrients, such as Iron, Magnesium, Calcium, etc.

Anyway it would be nice if someone could be more specific and tell me if it is exclusively an Iron deficiency, N deficiency, Mg deficiency, etc. I'm about to feed them with all the nutrients and maybe they just need some...... don't wanna go from a deficiency to an overfertilization.

Thanks again!

 

[Kultura]

acho que o primeiro que deves fazer e mesmo ver o nivel d ph, na cogniscitiva arranjas um medidor barato.

se for mt baixo, bloqueias o calcio e magnesio d entrar na planta, por acaso a agua da torneira e rica neles mas como usas d garrafa que ja de si tem um ph baixo, com o fertilizant ainda vai variar mais, e conveniente medires mesmo.
os sintomas parecem me bastante mais complexos que uma simples deficiencia de N

 

[Tommy G]

Hi people!

Thanks for the advice but you are not helping me. This is not a Portuguese forum (like this one or this one) and 99% of the people that may read your posts do not understand Portuguese. They may even think that you solved my problem and abstain from helping me, so please, don't keep on answering in Portuguese. Nobody ever did that to me in ICMAG and now that I really need advice I think it is not the best time to start with it.

Anyone else?

os sintomas parecem me bastante mais complexos que uma simples deficiencia de N

Yes friend, if it was a simple N deficiency I wouldn't be here, but has we all know a N deficiency starts by yellowing the lower/older leaves and then go up. My plants are yellowing all the leaves and it even seems to be affecting more the top leaves than the lower ones. They just loose the green and get yellow and those brown spots are starting to even make the leaves curl.

Still waiting for a concrete answer (in English).

 

[mjcuresall]

Psychotropic, I don't think anyone here can give you a concrete or guaranteed answer right away. We can offer educated suggestions, however.

While this looks like you may have more than one issue here, I'd narrow my first guess to an iron deficiency because yellowing is present at the top-most part or newest growth of the plant.

I'd try to find the weakest nutrient solution that contains an adequate amount of iron and start with that.

I think a better way to address your problem is if you know the AllMix soil works well for you, why not get more and transplant the affected plants into the AllMix? (It seems like an easier solution rather than trying to diagnose and fix what's wrong with the LightMix.)

 

[Mr Celsius]

I could be totally off, but it really looks like a ph problem. I'm seeing signs of multiple different deficiencies, so it makes me think you ph is out of wack, cause a lockout of nutrients.

I highly suggest you check the ph run off, ph strips are very cheap, although I don't know if you can source them where you live... either way, good luck and sorry I couldn't be of more help.

 

[sirgrassalot]

I'm with the pH problem first.

 

[Kultura]

psycho i just referred to the N deficiency because fokaz pointed in that direction. and it didn't seem the right path to go ( to me.)

now fokaz obviously pointed ph problems, witch i did too.
and everyone else (english speakers) did the same so after all what we told u was not all that far from a concrete answer.

i just posted in Portuguese because in your own words u seem not to be very good in English, so i wanted to make it easier for you, for that im sorry ( its disrespecting for other forum members, your absolutely right)

 

[sirgrassalot]

If I don't know I'll find out.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr

"I find that the first one that you must make and same to see nivel d ph, in the cogniscitiva you arrange a cheap measurer. if will be TM low, blocks calcio and magnesio d to enter in plant, by chance agua of tap and rich in them but as you use d bottle that ja of itself has one ph low, with fertilizant still goes to vary more, and convenient to measure exactly. the symptoms seem me sufficiently more complex than a simple deficiencia of N"

 

[Tommy G]

Hi! Thanks

I don't think anyone here can give you a concrete or guaranteed answer right away. We can offer educated suggestions, however.

Yes, maybe I didn't express myself in the best way. What I meant by a concrete answer is something like you just gave me, not a concrete but a logic (and surely educated) suggestion. My fault, sorry.

I think a better way to address your problem is if you know the AllMix soil works well for you, why not get more and transplant the affected plants into the AllMix?

Yeah, of course I've already thought about doing that, but there are 2 reasons why I didn't. First is because the poor (and only) growshop I have in town, one times have AllMix available, other times have LightMix, or Plagron soil some other times, so I have to go with what they have at the moment. Is a bit sad, but that's the only grown shop in a range of 200km (130 miles) and buying soil through the mail doesn't seem a good idea to me. The other reason is that they are already in the biggest containers I have and they are on their 3rd day flowering, I would have to buy bigger containers, go 130 miles to buy AllMix and run the risk of stressing the plants. But yes, it would be the most convenient thing to do, maybe I'll consider buying another kind of soil in a garden store and mix some worm humus to get it a bit more fertilized (with N from the humus).

I could be totally off, but it really looks like a ph problem. I'm seeing signs of multiple different deficiencies, so it makes me think you ph is out of wack, cause a lockout of nutrients.

I would consider it to be a Ph problem if it was happening to all my plants, but I have 14 plants that are treated the same way and only 4 show the deficiency, the other 10 plants are super healthy, as usual . The only difference is the soil mix I'm using, so to be a Ph problem it would have to be related to LightMix, which does'nt seem very probable to me, since it is made to grow cannabis on it and the package says it is 6,1 - 6,3 Ph.

I'm more with mjcuresall here with the Iron deficiency. And maybe also a bit of N and Magnesium would be good to them.

I have Bioheaven with me, so I could try to solve it with it. This are the quantities:

N...............0,91
P...............0,18
K...............0,24
Calcium.......0,28
Magnesium...0,20
Iron............0,017
Manganese...0,001
Zinc............0,002
Borium.........0,018
Copper........0,0001
Molybdenum.0,0001

What do you think?

psycho i just referred to the N deficiency because fokaz pointed in that direction. and it didn't seem the right path to go ( to me.)

Well, if didn't seem to you that it was the right path to go, why did you referred to it?

i just posted in Portuguese because in your own words u seem not to be very good in English, so i wanted to make it easier for you, for that im sorry ( its disrespecting for other forum members, your absolutely right)

Hehehe, if I make a couple of orthographic mistakes in an entire post it doesn't mean I don't understand English. If I didn't understand English I wouldn't be here friend Anyway, your suggestions are always welcome.

But speaking of N and Ph, well, go back to my first post and you'll see that I was already thinking that the problem should be related to one or both of them, but anyway I was thinking about something else like a micronutrient deficiency such as Iron or Magnesium. Of course a Ph problem could block the absorption of many nutrients and it makes all the sense since my plants seem to affected by more than one deficiency, so I take the Ph possibility into consideration as well but it just doesn't make many sense to me and, if it would, I would have to blame on a Ph inconsistency of the LighMix Biobizz's
soil...

The most important thing to me was to be shure that it doesn't have anything to do with overfert, but I guess it really may be the opposite.

Thanks, now I have some (more) "concrete" ideas about how to act. You all helped a lot.

What I'm about to do?

-Put some more worm humus in the top of the soil, so it can go down with the waterings;
-Water them with 4ml of BioHeaven (bottle says 2-5ml);
-Water them with 3ml of BioBloom (bottle says 2-5ml).

I may only do it tomorrow to be shure that the soil is completly dry. I also suspected at first that it could be a problem of excessive humidity from the Neem baths that I gave them...

If anyone else has some other ideas, share them

Thanks again, I'll let you know how they react in the next days.



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[MynameStitch]

Some of them have a nitrogen deficiency; but physco, can you get another picture of the first plant, the one with the white veins?
Is there something on the plant or is it like that?

Babel fish is a huge joke, because each language there grammer is different some like German you put the adjective before where with us it's always after.

They do not adjust for that which when it's translated it looks jibberish to us.

Did you use a pH pen to test your pH run off?

Another thing, stop using the mineral water, mineral water has sodium in it which is terrible for plants and causes all kinds of problems.
Use tap water or get bottled water that has no sodium in it.

Sodium will cause stunted growth and deformed leaves, also can cause nitrogen problems then phosphorus problems and then the plant is dead.
I would get some good clean water and flush out the plants a bit to help remove any sodium that is in the soil first and foremost.

Your soil pH is off a bit, I would get it too the range of around 5.8 to 6.0.
First flush the soil of the mixture and then after they dry out a little bit you can feed them.

 

[sirgrassalot]

Anyone with some intelligence can decipher that text. Didn't you take any Latin in HS or other languages? tsk tsk tsk

 

[Tommy G]

Thanks MynameStitch!

Some of them have a nitrogen deficiency; but physco, can you get another picture of the first plant, the one with the white veins?
Is there something on the plant or is it like that?

I'll post some more photos in my next post, I need do upload them first. But yes, it is also something new, that's not "something on the plant" as you said, it is like that and it also comes from the supposed deficiency as it became visible at the same time.

They do not adjust for that which when it's translated it looks jibberish to us.

Believe it man, using BabelFish to translate from Portuguese to English or from English to Portuguese is a huge joke. "They" are two very different languages and Portuguese has a complexity that no automatic translator can deal with to date

Did you use a pH pen to test your pH run off?

Nope Gotta get one (or some Ph strips) as soon as possible.

Thank you very much for the advice on the mineral water from having sodium in it. I'll consider to stop using it or I'll try to find one that is sodium free. Our tap water here is "dangerous" for its high Ph level, usually higher than 8...

Your soil pH is off a bit, I would get it too the range of around 5.8 to 6.0.

When you say that my pH is off a bit, you mean it is a bit high or a bit low?

First flush the soil of the mixture and then after they dry out a little bit you can feed them.

Your advice is to flush in order to remove any possible sodium excess? I believe you when you say sodium is bad for them and I'll try to avoid it in the future, but I don't believe the soil have excessive amounts of sodium on it because I have always used this kind of water and it never happened and, even more important, the other plants (from the same strain) are also watered with the same water and they are healthy...

Thanks again, the pics will come right away...

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[MynameStitch]

Your pH meaning it is a little high, reason why I say to flush is, because the veins that is white on the plant means something is being absorbed in the plant and building up in the veins...... sodium builds up inside the plant.

If you do not want to flush that is fine, just use a different kind of water. if you get some pH down you can use your tap water, tap water has good micros in them. Since you have micros though, I would fine RO water or bottled water without it and just use the micros and feed your plants weekly.
Everytime you water though I would add a small amount of micros to your water, cause if you used tap water your plants would be getting them anyways everytime you water.

 

[Tommy G]

Thanks man!

That last post you've just posted was really helpful. As you can see by the pics you may be really right, it's in their veins...

I guess this are the pics you asked for:







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[MynameStitch]

It's either that or it's variegation, but you have light on the plant...... variegation is caused by when the leaves are not getting enough direct light which causes pigment apparatus.

BUT, you are now using a 400 watt HPS, those are not proper spectrum for vegging in and not all strains like it, I would try to put them back under the 100 watt hps and add fluros or at least put that one with the white veins back under the MH one.

When did this problem start?

 

[Tommy G]

I don't think it is variegation.

It started in the 100wHPS while vegging in 20/4.

No they are all in 12/12 since last friday. The pics where also taken friday, so they were vegging at the time, under 100wHPS as I always do and it is the first time it is happening. They get plenty of light, both in veg and flower stage.

I'm more with something related to LightMix since it is the only "new thing" I'm using this time. So I think it may be a deficiency from the poor fertilized soil and I also think you may be right about the Sodium, I went to check and the bottled water I use contains 7,1mg "per" litre of sodium.

One more thing... Do you think that the Neem baths may have something to do with it?

Thanks!

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[MynameStitch]

Neem depending on how strong you use and how freqent can easily burn the leaves and cause problems.

How much were you using, how often?

Any amount of sodium is bad 7 mg is a lot of sodium and am surprised your plants are not showing any other signs, I have had sodium toxicity in my plants before I Have pics of them in my gallery, my nothern lights did not get phased by it as much as the bogglegum did. The poor bogglegum stopped taking in a lot of water stopped growing and does not matter if I foliar fed it or fed it, stil did not grow, it used up ntrients in the leaves very slowly and it looked the same size as it did when it was 2 weeks old at 3 months old.

 

[Tommy G]

Neem depending on how strong you use and how freqent can easily burn the leaves and cause problems.

How much were you using, how often?

I've only used it twice on them, with an interval of 1 week (friday to friday). Bottle says 1-2ml per litre and I used 1.5ml but I gave them a big bath, they got all wet and even let many water penetrate the soil since I heard it is also good for the roots.

I have had sodium toxicity in my plants before I Have pics of them in my gallery

Gotta have a look at your gallery then..

it looked the same size as it did when it was 2 weeks old at 3 months old.

How bad

2 hours ago I gave a special treatment to one of my Ruderalis Indica to see how it goes. If it shows any sign of recovering I'll give the same treatment to all the others. I made some kind of "holes" in the top of the soil (carefully, without affecting the roots) an filled the holes with worm humus for a possible N deficiency. Then I watered it with a 5,3pH water with much less sodium than the water I used to use and 5ml of Bioheaven per litre of water for any possible micronutrient deficiency.

Reduced pH, reduced sodium, increased macro and micronutrients.. lets see if it works. Next step is buying some pH test strips to and maybe some pH down (powder) to get rid of any trace of sodium and other undesired minerals present in bottled water.

I'll keep you informed, thanks



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