YELLOW, BROWN AND DYING

[doesntmatter]

I HAVE 18 AK48'S IN 16OZ DIXIE CUPS IN A 3TO1 PERLITE/VERMICULITE MIX ... I WATERED WITH 1/8 STRENTH NUTE WHEN THEY WERE ABOUT A WEEK OLD AND BURNED THEM A LITTLE (TIPS TURNED YELLOW ON ABOUT HALF OF THE PLANTS) AS TIME WENT ON THEY GREW SLOWLY AND THE YELLOW PROGRESSED SO AT ABOUT 2 WEEKS I FLUSHED THEM WITH TAP WATER ... THEY ARE NOW 3 WEEKS OLD AND SMALL (I THINK? IM A NEW GROWER!) AND THE NEW GROWTH IS GREEN ON ALL BUT 2 OF THE PLANTS WHICH HAVE A FEW YELLOW SPOTS (NOT THE EDGES THIS TIME) ... THE BOTTOM LEAVES (NOT THE SEEDLING LEAVES THE ONES AFTER THOSE?) ON ABOUT ALL OF THE PLANTS HAVE TURNED BROWN (AFTER YELLOW) AND DIED AND ARE FALLING OFF ... NOW I HAVE A CHART THAT SAYS IF LOWER GROWTH IS DYING I NEED TO ADD NUTES ... I DONT KNOW IF I DO OR NOT HAVE BEEN WATERING EVERY 4-5 DAYS WITH TAP WATER (LIFT METHOD ... WATER WHEN THEY ARE LIGHT OR DRY) SO HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS AND SHITTY PICS

WHAT IS HURTING MY PLANTS?

SHOULD I GIVE 1/4 STRENTH NUTES?

ARE THEY SMALL FOR THEIR AGE?

WHEN SHOULD I TRANSPLANT OUT OF THE CUPS? (CANT SEE ROOTS ... MY SOILESS MIX WONT COME OUT AS A CLUMP LIKE SOIL)

AND WILL MY PLANTS BE OK IF I FIX THE PROBLEM OR HAS TOO MUCH DAMAGE BEEN DONE?































SORRY FOR THE BAD PICS CAMERA ISNT SO GOOD ... THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY HELP!

 

[vigilo]

i would say you fed them too early, burned them. Then the tap water fucked them up prolly due to either salt buildup (nute burn from hard water) or pH issues. this is all speculation, but its most likely a pH problem now.

 

[piffffalici0us]

im inexperienced as well, but according to my ppm meter, my tap water is actually more disolved solids, then 1/4 strength nutes would be.
so tap water that is at 250 ppm, then u add 1/4 strength nutes, ur total will be 500+ppm.
That will be enough to burn ur baby.
Do what I do, buy distilled water, u start at 0 ppm so u can add nothing but goodies for ur baby girl(hopefully)
goodluck

 

[piffffalici0us]

get the tds3 ppm meter from ebay, 20 bucks, good investment. Im not saying ur tap will be as bad as mine, but it may be better or worse...only way to find out is get a tds pen.

 

[doesntmatter]

im inexperienced as well, but according to my ppm meter, my tap water is actually more disolved solids, then 1/4 strength nutes would be.
so tap water that is at 250 ppm, then u add 1/4 strength nutes, ur total will be 500+ppm.
That will be enough to burn ur baby.
Do what I do, buy distilled water, u start at 0 ppm so u can add nothing but goodies for ur baby girl(hopefully)
goodluck

mynameisstitch and several others have told me to use tap water NOT distilled ... thats kind of the problem ...if i get 20 answers it will be 20 different problems with 40 different answers

so ... can anyone answer my original questions? they are listed in my first post

 

[doesntmatter]

by the way my tap is around 200ppm ... i was told tap was good because of the micros and trace stuff in it ... very expierenced people have posted this ... again 1 of them being stitch ... who i wish would charm in and let me know what really is wrong and answer my still unanswered question ... here they are again ... with #'s we will see if that helps

1. WHAT IS HURTING MY PLANTS?

2. SHOULD I GIVE 1/4 STRENTH NUTES?

3. ARE THEY SMALL FOR THEIR AGE?

4. WHEN SHOULD I TRANSPLANT OUT OF THE CUPS? (CANT SEE ROOTS ... MY SOILESS MIX WONT COME OUT AS A CLUMP LIKE SOIL)

5. AND WILL MY PLANTS BE OK IF I FIX THE PROBLEM OR HAS TOO MUCH DAMAGE BEEN DONE?

sorry for being a dick but for once can i get straight answers from people who KNOW the answer!

 

[MynameStitch]

You are using peat pucks in pertlite/vermic mixture correct?
Sorry, I am always late recently


First I would test the pH; when you water your plants find out what the pH is.......

Since it's soiless your water and nute mixture is going to count bigtime since it's perlite only pretty much.

Right now for the size they are they don't need transplanted yet; so don't think about doing that yet.

DO you know how to test the pH?

After you test your pH and if it's correct range...... 5.5 to 6.3 this is what you need to do.......


WHAT IS HURTING MY PLANTS?
It seems to me if the pH is not off your plants are hungry and need to be fed, with soiless mixtures you are in; you need to feed them earlier than soil grows... perlite mixture..... the perlite it self does not hold moisture but stays wet on the outside.....
so imo I would feed them around every 5 to 7 days possible a little closer together when they get bigger; perlite can only keep in the mostire so long and not to mention most of the nutes that run out of the bottom are at the bottom and the perlite can only hold so much and this is why you need to feed more freqently with perlite mixtures.


SHOULD I GIVE 1/4 STRENTH NUTES?

What nutes are you using? Depends on what kind and the dosage, I would use 1/2 teaspoon per gallon depending on the nutes........

ARE THEY SMALL FOR THEIR AGE?

Yes, they are small for there age due to them pretty much being starved.

WHEN SHOULD I TRANSPLANT OUT OF THE CUPS? (CANT SEE ROOTS ... MY SOILESS MIX WONT COME OUT AS A CLUMP LIKE SOIL)
Don't worry about that yet.

AND WILL MY PLANTS BE OK IF I FIX THE PROBLEM OR HAS TOO MUCH DAMAGE BEEN DONE?
The damaged is done to the leaves and will stay damaged, you want to make sure the newer growth does not get affected.

So the main point here is get the pH checked first before feeding them.... if the pH is off you depending on if it's high or low; most likely it may be high due to your water.....

Tap water is fine to use as long as it's not over 250ppms if you grow hydro, then tap water is a whole different story as it's harder to control your pH and ppms and nutes are harder to absorb when you use hard water(tap) in hydro..... this is soiless we are talking about though..... a lot of people have soft water and can use tap without problems for hydro..... you just have to test the ppm count.

if your pH is too high you will need to use some pH down with every watering.....
When you feed your plants you may or may not need to use it..... depends on the nutes.

You need to get a pH pen from a hydro shop and some calibration fluid and when you water your plants, water comes out the drainage holes and you collect it and test the water with the pen, but you should always make sure the pen is calibrated every 2 weeks tops.

If you can't afford to buy a pH pen, you can get some pH test strips..... but ensure there is a range on the back of the bottle... like 4 to 10 or something like that, if it only has a range from starting from 6 don't buy it......

You want the pH range on the bottle to go up to at least 8.

I would not use distilled on them until they fully recover honestly; with the low ppm count and 0 nutes that is not what you need right now......

If you do use it after they recover; you will need to use micronutes supplement like cal mag, sensi cal and others......... otherwise you get calcium and magneisum problems and more later down the road.

 

[piffffalici0us]

hey i used distilled all the way thru and its beautiful, problems werent until the stretch cuz i was taking it easy on the nutes.
the micro nutes calcium and mag are in tap water, thats the good, the bad
chlorine, lead, among other poisonous metals and bacteria.
200 ppm=nasty water. Tap water is fine, if it is under 75 ppm!
there is a water brand called purelife that has cal and mag in the water. which is good, and that water ppm is 35.(but u dont need that! just use good nutes)
the plant has food in its seed that can go for 2 weeks without having to feed nutes.
what kind of nutes did u use?
if u get the 3 part gh micro has all the micronutes u will need. 200 ppm is considered HARDWATER which they have special nutes for that kind of water.

so this is a straight answer.
1.) PH (causes the twisty leaves) and nute burn(too much ppm in ur water) causing it to die and leaves to dry out.
2) Give them 1/4 strength nutes when u get urself some distilled water. make sure it is ph'ed at 6.5 before u put it in, then test the run off's ph.
3) They are extremely small for their age. Do u have holes on the bottom of your cups? Do u let the soil dry COMPLETELY before adding more, if the soil is to wet, the roots wont grow.
4) U dont need to worry bout transplanting yet, the plants are tiny still.
5) Pot is extremely adaptable, and once it gets thru this it will be perfectly fine.

Cut the dead leaves off so the pests dont come looking for food.
What kind of soil u using? is it soil that has nutes already mixed in?
most soils u buy have the nutes mixed in that are too strong for the pot plants.
Now show some appreciation, i just answered ur questions.
You think this part is hard? good luck getting thru flowering...lol

Now take the answers and use the info igive you, im not lying to you.
and if u cant get ur plant to work then just give up, and buy buds from the block.
Not everyone is cut out for growing. dont rely on people for answers, the best way to learn is from experience.
Goodluck, and remember! dont bite the hand that feeds u(info)

 

[piffffalici0us]

hey stitch, i dont mean to contradict you with my opinion on tap water.

on a little one like that, i feel 200ppm tap is too high. but with 0 ppm water(distilled) u can add more of the good stuff ur plant needs.

Stitch is definetly one of the GURUs here.
Remember:
If you want to get kind bud, u need to be kind to your plant!

OMG! I didnt realize it was AK-48!
Wow, i feel bad for u man, what a waste of good genetics .

 

[MynameStitch]

You are not going to get nute burn from too high tap water ppm, where did you get this information from?

Like I said before 250 ppm is the limit; I have always grown with hard water and look how beautiful my plants came out. If you use distilled water, RO water you must have a complete feeding regimen, if you use soil/soiless or hydro does not matter which but not all strains like the distilled and I have seen more people use distilled RO on smaller plants and seedlings and have a hell of a time.

nute burn is caused by too much salts and high content from the roots sitting in it too long, the plants take what they need and leave the rest when they need it; if there is too much there this is where you get nute burn from.

I have never seen someone burn there plants from high ppm tap water only.

If it's going to cause a problem, it's going to cause problems from nutrients not being able to be absorbed correctly due to hard water.

You can still use your tap water, you don't have to use distilled and ime with you not having a complete feeding using distilled water will only further your problems right now.

I would leave all leaves alone right now, the yellowing leaves the plants are taking stored nutes from them and if you remove them, they will start eating from the other leaves and with the leaves being so young like they are you don't want to remove them you want as many leaves as possible with due to there size.

Pests? where is he going to get pests from using a soiless mixture and keeping them indoors?

Now show some appreciation, i just answered ur questions.
You think this part is hard? good luck getting thru flowering...lol

Now take the answers and use the info igive you, im not lying to you.
and if u cant get ur plant to work then just give up, and buy buds from the block.
Not everyone is cut out for growing. dont rely on people for answers, the best way to learn is from experience.
Goodluck, and remember! dont bite the hand that feeds u(info)

That is not a very assuring way to talk to someone who is asking for help and

Why don't you go a little easier on him dude, he is new; it does not help to poke fun at a newb.
Not to mention I am far from lying to him, I am giving him best advice on his situation and what he as to fix his problems at his disposal.

You only keep in count what your tap water ppm and nute count, but if you use organic nutes you are not getting the correct PPM reading anyways!


Chlorine can be dissipated after sitting out, people grow plants with tap water from major cites with no problems, we all drink the water plants live outdoors and get acid rain

It's rare to see many people have tap water under 75 ppm

pure life has minerals for taste; were you aware there is sodium in that water? Sodium is by far the worst to add to your plants as it's the first to uptake before any available nutrients, it causes vascular cell walls to fail inside the plant thus causing more water and nute uptake to the plant and the plant stores it in the leaves once it leaves the stem.

what a waste of good genetics

That was not a very nice thing to say at all

 

[piffffalici0us]

Hey stitch, no disrespect to u, but did u kno that most tap water contains anti anxiety drugs, antidepressants, etc...This information was in the news not too long ago, from samples of new york water supply, los angeles water supply and a few others.
not only these drugs in the water, but we have all types of chemicals including iron, mercury...etc...
GH Micro contains all the trace elements and it is actually meant for people who r using r/o water.
GH Micro for hard water is made for people who use high ppm tap.

I didnt mean he burnt the leaves from just the plain tap. most likely it is a PH problem that caused nitrogen lockout.
But what im saying is the hardwater + nutes= unnessecarily high ppms.

I have nothing but respect for u stitch, u help alot of people out here by making ur guides, and answering questions. Your guide for sick plants has given me ideas.
And I thank you for that.

For someone who isnt experienced shouldnt sprout 18 seeds at once without the proper tools and supplies for them.
Even I am experienced (not as much as u tho) and I only pop half my seeds at first, then the other half just incase...

 

[piffffalici0us]

Hey stitch, this came from your guide:

Prevent and Control

Removing any dead or dying material from the plant helps prevent bud rot so does decreasing humidity and increasing ventilation. There are also safe anti fungal sprays from hydro shops that help. If you do find gray mould, cut off the infected part of the plant well above and below the effected area and remove it from the grow room. Decreasing the humidity from 55% to around 40% will make a big difference in preventing bud mold. Also having very big buds can cause bud rot, and would advise watching the areas on your plant that have the biggest, thickest and the more dense buds. Try to have medium size buds rather than having big thick buds. Having a dehumidify around when high humidity days can help as well.


I know this isnt saying pests, and it isnt applying to budrot, but its still ur advice

stay safe bro.

 

[MynameStitch]

Yup, already know this; seen it on CNN and many other sites; cannabis is not some kind of wacked out plant that needs royalty I have known this way before it even hit the news......

See the problem is he is using a soiless mixture perlite vermiculite and has no nutrients in there, he has not fed them in a long time after that flush, so where are they getting food from?

High ppms that does not count as the total nute content, hard water ppms only count towards the ppms and not the real nutrient content.

For someone who isnt experienced shouldnt sprout 18 seeds at once without the proper tools and supplies for them.
Even I am experienced (not as much as u tho) and I only pop half my seeds at first, then the other half just incase...

This I fully agree with you there, but what is done is done...... was a stupud thing for him to do...... but it happens all the time...... so yelling at them or hurting them more is not going to help........

I take your postings as no disrespect at all bro, not at all man; not once did that word ever entered my mind at all now and in the past and nor does it ever, but until I read your post and seen the word

I would give you rep, but it said I gave too much out in 24 hours so you will be the next I hit

 

[piffffalici0us]

hey stitch, check this out.
This actually gives u a detailed report of whats in ur local water...if u live in one of these areas.

http://www.nrdc.org/water/drinking/uscities/contents.asp

check it out, u might find it interesting

like i said u r one of the few guru's here, i consider myself your apprentice.

 

[MynameStitch]

I live in illinois but not near chicago. Does not matter I have yet to see tap water harm plants unless it;s overly hard or too high chlorine levels, if humans can't drink it then it's bad for plants.

You should always let water sit out before using it from the tap though.

 

[doesntmatter]

thank you stitch your reply was both thoughtful and helpful ... other guy whatever your name is ... this is my first grow i popped 18 out of 20 and have about 200 more seeds if these dont work ... i will not give up and i dont care if you think it is a waste of genetics ... lol maybe you are a waste of genetics ... my water is around 200ppm from a 250ft well way out in the country (where people show respect) anyway enough of wasting my time with you i never even asked for your help (if you will re-read i asked for someone expierenced who KNEW the answers ... not someone guessing at what is wrong with my plants based on what they have read ... i could have done that all on my on) stitch thank you again ... i have a ph test kit on order and will go to the health food store and pick up some test strips to hold me over ... by the way i have gh nutes (3 part) i just mixed some up with my deadly tap water .. lol thank you for the information

 

[doesntmatter]

hey is there a good way to get rid of the jiffy peat pellet around my plants?

 

[piffffalici0us]

dude i took time out of my life to try to help you, and if u read both of our responces, we both said PH.
if u have 200 more, then u should seriously dump the ones u have start fresh because at 3 weeks u should be seeing preflowers and getting ready to put in flower.
But seriosuly man, i was kind enough to give u information, thanks for the slap in the face

eventho u try to call me a waste of genetics.
heres a tip for u

use 2.5 ml of micro, and 5 ml of bloom (no grow).
set the water at 6.5 ph before u add.
Add micro first(shake everything up good, and shakeor stir the water before u add the bloom)

btw my info comes from experience
maybe one day ull see something like this:

 

[MynameStitch]

Ok! everyone calm down now and lets talk growing! That is what we are here for is to help out and talk to other growers!

Since you got gh 3 part, if you wanted to you can use distilled; but I would not reccomend it right now; I would do so after they recover.

Since you are using tap water do not use as many micros use half the amount of micros it lists for...... also when you mix it make sure you mix in the micros first then the grow and bloom if I remember correctly........

I would keep the peat puck there, there is a wait to do so though; you can rip the netting off and the peat puck just pretty much crumbles if you put it in water and let the water rinse off the soil' never remove the soil by hand as you risk ripping roots;

If you want to do this; I recommend waiting until they recover; no point in putting them through anything else right now........

 

[piffffalici0us]

leave the mesh on the peat just plant it the roots will grow thru fine...
be careful with GH micro, its meant for Hydro grows. Even half of what it says to use on the bottle is tooooo much!
0 (green) 2.5 ml(micro) 5 ml (pink) then eventually use full strength lucas formula
0-8-16ml
U want to alternate plain water with full strength lucas as u go along to flush out the salt buildup or u will have ph problems in the soil.(learning that the hardway).
and remember, less is more...when u use too much itll give u what looks to be deficincey but really its locked out cuz of too much salt build up.

Thank you stitch for ur advice earlier!

And I think im going to start saving money and use tap water...Ill save the bottled water for drinking from now on! lol
I have great results using distilled, but it gets wayyyy to expensive and since my friends here r using tap with great results, i think i will too...
Too bad i already spent close to $100 dollars on just water in the past few months