Will lite weed ever be a niche?

[J-Icky]

Honestly I can see Dabs being more tightly controlled. Sadly I believe its dabs and the torches and the ultra potent product that has held back legalization more than anything. To the average joe non-consumer that makes it appear far more drug and crack like. These are the same people that came up under the height of the drug war and the crack epidemic and now they again see a more potent version of a drug with special pipes and torches that causes it to hit harder and with more of a "rush".

If anything philip morris will do what it already does with tobacco and they will extract the cannabinoids and terpines, then take the processed buds and leaf material and further process that into sheets and reapply the concentrate at different rates depending on the product. then shred those sheets and send for rolling. They could also do this for pennies since the infastructure is already in place and would profit huge off of $10-20 packs of 10-20 prerolled joints.

 

[Monsanto Sam]

You are absolutely wrong in your assessment about terpins... People DO use them to get high. Terpins ADD to the effects greatly.
Terpins can cause trimmers to want to get up and vacate the room they're working in to get some fresh air because they're soooooo fucking high they cant concentrate on their work. This isnt from smoking, eating, vaping or any other normally held form of consumption either. We were simply sitting in the room trimming & we had to get the hell out of there. Personal experience... No fucking joke...
TERPS WILL GET YOU FUCKED UP! NO THC NEEDED!

Sounds like bullshit to me I've trimmed plenty of weed and nobody had to leave the room.

Lemon farmers don't get high from the terpines nor do Mango farmers. Show me some scientific proof I'm not buying that story because I've grown weed over 15 years and never got high from the smell.

 

[SeedsOfFreedom]

You are absolutely wrong in your assessment about terpins... People DO use them to get high. Terpins ADD to the effects greatly.
Terpins can cause trimmers to want to get up and vacate the room they're working in to get some fresh air because they're soooooo fucking high they cant concentrate on their work. This isnt from smoking, eating, vaping or any other normally held form of consumption either. We were simply sitting in the room trimming & we had to get the hell out of there. Personal experience... No fucking joke...
TERPS WILL GET YOU FUCKED UP! NO THC NEEDED!

I agree with terpenes being a very important because of how they modify THC, but getting high from just smelling herb while trimming has never happened to me. Maybe you have to trim like 100lbs? Maybe I am doing something wrong. Hahaha

I guess I can't say your wrong because every time I ever trim I am high as possible already because I fucking hate trimming!

 

[HeriMarry]

Sounds like bullshit to me I've trimmed plenty of weed and nobody had to leave the room.

Lemon farmers don't get high from the terpines nor do Mango farmers. Show me some scientific proof I'm not buying that story because I've grown weed over 15 years and never got high from the smell.

You do not get high from terpenes, terpenes modify the high, if there is no thc to modify, you will not get high. Hope this help's some.

 

[seeded]

The whole point of mass production is the economy of scale and the ability to produce a cost effective product for the masses. Basically the opposite of small scale craft producers who fill the high end niche. It's not realistic to charge a premium price when the little guy has better product at an equal price point. I wouldn't be all that worried about massive pollen clouds everywhere either. It just doesnt make sense to grow acres of seeded pot when yields are at stake.

If we're talking hemp, you're probably not going to see it grown in well populated areas where land prices are exorbitant, but rather in low cost areas sparsely populated and not posing a threat to many other growers at all. I can't see large scale growers of cheap fiber products buying up ridiculously priced land in CA because it would kill their bottom line. Even then there are measures that you can take so long as you aren't growing an open environment. As far as dabs being the "light weed", I'm sure there will be inferior product shoveled out as that is what large scale production leads to. On the other hand I don't see the part time occasional type smokers carrying around dab rigs so they can partake once in a while, but rather those who smoke regularly and would like a high end product but can't afford it.

I agree that hemp farms will be located away from most people but what about the average joe having a go that doesn't know the difference between males, females or even has an eye for bananas? It might not be hemp pollen but it might as well be and it's going to be found everywhere there's people.

As for the economies of scale think for a moment about coffee machines with those expensive pods people use and apply it to the oil market. They'll make a ton of different oils, maybe even offer custom orders online, and it'll be a matter of putting your pod in the vape pen and puffing away. Do you think you could ever compete against that kind of convenience and at the prices they'll be able to produce it for especially when it becomes a race to the bottom with multinationals that engage in decade long economic wars with one another? Your home grown will always be lower quality, higher in price and require more input from the user meaning it won't sell at all and if by some miracle it's not like that and you deprive them of profit they'll just lower their prices until you have to give up and get a different occupation to put food on the table.

Seedless flowers will always be loved but you'll never in a million years be able to compete against industrialized oil production in the modern world.

 

[JimmyToucan]

I agree that hemp farms will be located away from most people but what about the average joe having a go that doesn't know the difference between males, females or even has an eye for bananas? It might not be hemp pollen but it might as well be and it's going to be found everywhere there's people.

As for the economies of scale think for a moment about coffee machines with those expensive pods people use and apply it to the oil market. They'll make a ton of different oils, maybe even offer custom orders online, and it'll be a matter of putting your pod in the vape pen and puffing away. Do you think you could ever compete against that kind of convenience and at the prices they'll be able to produce it for especially when it becomes a race to the bottom with multinationals that engage in decade long economic wars with one another? Your home grown will always be lower quality, higher in price and require more input from the user meaning it won't sell at all and if by some miracle it's not like that and you deprive them of profit they'll just lower their prices until you have to give up and get a different occupation to put food on the table.

Seedless flowers will always be loved but you'll never in a million years be able to compete against industrialized oil production in the modern world.

If you're talking an average Joe who is so green they can't tell male from female, how big of a crop do you think they're growing? Enough to seed everyone around them? Hardly not.

The economy of scale has to do with companies producing on a mass scale to provide a cost friendly product. The real connection with your argument is about convenience, which I would agree, but as far as quality....meh. They don't stack up.

Compete? Absolutely, at least in the sense of having a market for your product. Due to price point products like organic vegetables or pasture raised meat that sells for double or even triple of that of their factory farmed counterparts will not sell at the same quantities across the board, but the market is there. There are dozens of people doing this within 50 miles of me and the make a fine living from it. They'll never be as big as Purdue, but that's the whole point.

Lower quality? If you're talking extracts, it's all in the process. The difference is less/more input to achieve the same yields depending on quality. A mass producer doesn't have to worry about squeezing every last bit of excellence from their product because of sheer volume and again...the scale allows them to produce it cheaper. Its a tradeoff; lesser quality but bigger, cheaper volume. Even a small time operation would be able to sell their extracts, and at a higher price point given what we've seen in the agriculture industry where more and more consumers are skeptical of where there food comes from and how it's produced. Think organic vs pesticide ridden fruits and vegetables. It isn't on the same scale and never will be but the market is most assurably there, and at a premium price point.

If we're talking flowers, which is where a smaller operation would likely focus, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that a skilled small op grower couldn't put out a better product than a factory farm. We see it today in many different industries, of which I mentioned earlier. MJ is no different. Add in the number of folks looking for something organic, or made by someone they can actually see and talk to and you have your niche. Not the same scale, but again that's the point. The only real threat here is big brother stepping in and shutting all the small operations down, in which case growers will go back into the shadows and carry on like before.

I can see producing oils loaded with terpenoids, balanced with CBD to achieve a less potent product, but I don't see them pushing out small boutique growers any more than I can see clouds of pollen flying from the average Joe's backyard infiltrating operations all around them.

 

[seeded]

If there's a free for all type environment you know teenagers are going to fill their yards to capacity and once everyone gets bitten by grow bug that's never going to change. They might get better about getting the males out and catching hermies too but I don't have complete faith in them getting them all.

There's already groups out there that are making extracts from elite cuttings and then replicating them later using extracts they've already separated. They put in the recipe and out comes their perfect copy which they can then tweak any way they want making their products even better than the elites they started with. You've already lost and if you hurt their profits they'll either improve upon your recipe, buy you out or lower their prices until you lose all your business.

The market for flowers will be dominated by massive greenhouses because to sell will require licensing, product testing, taxation, etc. that all sellers will have to follow and then those guys will not only have access to the whole world's genetics but they'll have the space to pheno hunt on a scale that the likes of you and I can't even begin to imagine. Your customers may be loyal but they're not going to break the law or buy an inferior product legally when a cheaper and better alternative is available 24/7 for very long.

It doesn't matter what part of the plant you think of you can't compete once big money starts playing. All we can really do is continue growing ourselves to keep them honest because if they get everything we're really screwed.

 

[baduy]

Sounds like bullshit to me I've trimmed plenty of weed and nobody had to leave the room.

Lemon farmers don't get high from the terpines nor do Mango farmers. Show me some scientific proof I'm not buying that story because I've grown weed over 15 years and never got high from the smell.

I must agree with that. I never found any data definitely conclusive about this terpene entourage effect. It might be right but for now it's just speculation and it's unscientific to talk about it with absolute certainty as if it was not a theory anymore but a truth written in stone as I it's the impression I have after reading most cannabinoid related talks.
Is it so hard to say I don't know?

 

[JimmyToucan]

If there's a free for all type environment you know teenagers are going to fill their yards to capacity and once everyone gets bitten by grow bug that's never going to change. They might get better about getting the males out and catching hermies too but I don't have complete faith in them getting them all.

There's already groups out there that are making extracts from elite cuttings and then replicating them later using extracts they've already separated. They put in the recipe and out comes their perfect copy which they can then tweak any way they want making their products even better than the elites they started with. You've already lost and if you hurt their profits they'll either improve upon your recipe, buy you out or lower their prices until you lose all your business.

The market for flowers will be dominated by massive greenhouses because to sell will require licensing, product testing, taxation, etc. that all sellers will have to follow and then those guys will not only have access to the whole world's genetics but they'll have the space to pheno hunt on a scale that the likes of you and I can't even begin to imagine. Your customers may be loyal but they're not going to break the law or buy an inferior product legally when a cheaper and better alternative is available 24/7 for very long.

It doesn't matter what part of the plant you think of you can't compete once big money starts playing. All we can really do is continue growing ourselves to keep them honest because if they get everything we're really screwed.

Is it a free for all environment with kids growing seedy pot all willy nilly everywhere or will it be dominated by big business because of taxes and regulations? You can't have it both ways.

Customers breaking the law? And who says it's inferior? The dispensaries? They'd be the experts on inferior product. Lol.

Plenty of businesses are thriving right now by producing better, locally sourced products made in a way that suits their ideals. That's a statement of fact, not opinion. Cannabis isn't different than every other commodity sold on the open market. I'm not worried about my customers running to the grocery store to buy all their mass produced goods, and I won't be worried about them running to RJ Reynolds to buy their product either. There's room for both markets and like I said, the only thing stopping that would be being stripped of the right to do it altogether, not consumer demand.

 

[JimmyToucan]

I must agree with that. I never found any data definitely conclusive about this terpene entourage effect. It might be right but for now it's just speculation and it's unscientific to talk about it with absolute certainty as if it was not a theory anymore but a truth written in stone as I it's the impression I have after reading most cannabinoid related talks.
Is it so hard to say I don't know?

Sam was referring to getting high off terpenes alone...no mention of the entourage effect. With that said there is some valid information regarding how terpenoids effect the body. You might not call it getting stoned, but there are effects as listed in one of my previous posts.

As far as the entourage effect; poorly made edibles that rid the end product of any such coexisting cannabinoids, flavinoids and terpenes tend to have a flat one note effect when compared to the same beginning product in an unadulterated state. You can't tell me that it's a coincidence. Myself along with others have also noticed differences in effects between cultivars that have a lower THC, but have greater effects than that of those with higher levels but differing accompanying profiles.

In short, it's not that simple. Even the notion that CBD is responsible for curing while THC simply gets you high has gone out the window. One example would be samples high in myrcene being suitable for relief in ose suffering from opiod withdrawal. It's not due to high CBD, it might not even be because of THC levels but rather the general makeup and the sum of the parts.

 

[baduy]

It is also my feeling that terpenes have a role to play, I just think it's overestimated and that it's,for now, nothing more than a feeling.
I also have tried the same strains fermented and dry cured and, while they greatly differ in the smell department, the type of effect is not drastically changed.
The phrase "Correlation does not imply causation" comes to my mind

 

[Jhhnn]

I think there's something to be said for weed that's not ultra potent. We know a fair number of people who toke occasionally, who aren't chronics. It's good to be able to offer them something that'll fire the imagination & inspire conversation rather than overwhelm them, turn 'em into wallflowers. Just a couple of tokes of my best will do that to 'em sometimes. Not what I want.

The same applies to daytime weed. I mean, I can always smoke more but I still need to get stuff done so regulating the dose is important as is having something that's tasty.

Growing my own frees me from a lot of the old ways of thinking about weed. Way back when all weed was imported stronger was always better because it was expensive & even having solid connections wouldn't save a person from running out in a drought. An oz or qp of the good stuff would last longer. Dispensary pricing just means you can always get it if you can afford it so bang for the buck is still a big factor.

Growing my own means it's not expensive & that I'll never run out unless I'm so broke I can't pay the electric bill. So I can free myself of the "Potency is God!" headset to look at it a little differently.

 

[Chevy cHaze]

I like to look at it like wine... and good small batch vineyards do not only exist but put out some of the finest wine around...
As for lighter smoke: I'm all for it, there is a time for everything and even with continued prohibition in most of the world, home growing is such a boom that soon you'll have to be first timer not knowing anyone to not be able to buy "the right stuff".With availability, legal or illegal, comes a more nuanced product. Think about liquor during prohibition from unmarked canisters, no idea about the purity and origin of the content... like cannabis used to be. Now you can choose a nice white wine that's perfect for a summer day or a heavy red tinto to go with your roast...
and a tasty but less intense product is definitely something I would consider...

 

[Monsanto Sam]

You do not get high from terpenes, terpenes modify the high, if there is no thc to modify, you will not get high. Hope this help's some.

You could say the same about alcohol you drink wine out of a box it's a pretty shitty high. Drink your favorite mixed drink it's much more pleasant.

Terpines do definitely play a little role but there is not one terpine that gives me an amazing high. Sometimes I want fruity weed, sometimes floral, sometimes spicy sometimes piney I don't get a special effect but I do enjoy the different flavors.

The difference between Sativa and Indica have more to do with cannabinoid content I would think because a Sativa is high in THC/THCA and very low CBD while an Indica has a bit more CBD CBN of course other cannabinoids. But we really don't have much scientific research to back anything up. Certainly not enough scientific research to prove how much terpines effect the high or anything.

The way the market is is an absolute joke they sell Blue Dream as a Sativa while it's SSH X Blueberry very little Sativa in it. These are the majority of medical patients that are out saying Sativa is best for them meanwhile they don't even know what a real Sativa is.

We are in some serious need of science because almost all I see is speculations being thrown around as facts.

 

[Bob Green]

I think once quantity and price aren't so tied together we will see a lot more mid potency Herb with a ton of flavor and aroma.

Plenty of folks like to smoke piles of it all day long non stop.

"session weed"

Same goes for social situations at night especially when alcohol is involved.

I can't count how many times I have seen people pass up on herb because they want to stay functional. But at the house they are semi regular smokers.

Plus a lot of people only smoke every now and then and tolerance is a non factor.

 

[Aota1]

Since opening our doors on 10/1/15 for rec sales, a huge demographic of older, former smokers have come back to herb here. People who haven't smoked in decades and some who never have and used to be against it. Many have proceeded cautiously, often on our advice, when it comes to super potent flower. A lot of these folks have gradually gotten into stronger herb but many still go for lower potency every time. It's still high quality and, oftentimes, more flavorable than herb bred for thc. We even have folks that love the cbd flower, not for any medical reasoning. I believe, as legalization gets older, the wants and needs will continually evolve. It's nice to witness.

 

[Dr.Young]

You could say the same about alcohol you drink wine out of a box it's a pretty shitty high. Drink your favorite mixed drink it's much more pleasant.

Terpines do definitely play a little role but there is not one terpine that gives me an amazing high. Sometimes I want fruity weed, sometimes floral, sometimes spicy sometimes piney I don't get a special effect but I do enjoy the different flavors.

The difference between Sativa and Indica have more to do with cannabinoid content I would think because a Sativa is high in THC/THCA and very low CBD while an Indica has a bit more CBD CBN of course other cannabinoids. But we really don't have much scientific research to back anything up. Certainly not enough scientific research to prove how much terpines effect the high or anything.

The way the market is is an absolute joke they sell Blue Dream as a Sativa while it's SSH X Blueberry very little Sativa in it. These are the majority of medical patients that are out saying Sativa is best for them meanwhile they don't even know what a real Sativa is.

We are in some serious need of science because almost all I see is speculations being thrown around as facts.

Lol.... good sir..... You realize SSH is VERY Sativa dominate, and Blueberry too has a very diverse amount of Sativa in it for complexity.

 

[HeriMarry]

Here is a interesting read.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=183674

 

[sativaking]

Sometimes I get higher with a little less than if I had more. Not high CBD low THC, just light on the cannabinoids. Seems with the legal market growing, maybe some people don't want trashed.

Just a question. Seems lite beer isn't much cheaper than get drunk cheap beers. There is a market for lite smokers? Not junk seed either that isn't pretty or doesn't smell nice. Terps are like hops and are related.

I don't always go for the high proof at the liqour store. Sometimes I drink lite beer for some discipline. And yes some weed will wreck you and that's not always a good time. Surely there are people that want to smoke joints at a party for hours and not get trashed.

So will there be a breeding niche for lite smokers? Honestly it seems even heavy on the terps could be heavy smoke. Some girls like to smoke but they smoke new heavy strains and don't want to do much. So they drink all night and hardly ever hit the bong, with bad experiences and all that from getting too high.

What do you think? I know the market has been trying to pack more punch in a bag and prices have reflected that. Weight was against those busted in the past. Could still be an issue in many parts these days. For that reason I would myself not cultivate low cannabinoid strains. Of course unless I was a rich guy who was in legal business and the market had a demand for lite weed/hash. Just good old happy giggly party pot?

I think you can get the desired effect you want just by smoking less (couple hits and yer done) or perhaps smoking something that is a nicer organic indica. There so much crap out there now with pesticides on it that it can give you a racing heart..headache etc. Hopefully good organic non pesticide bud becomes the niche in the future. Just my opinion.

 

[Monsanto Sam]

Lol.... good sir..... You realize SSH is VERY Sativa dominate, and Blueberry too has a very diverse amount of Sativa in it for complexity.

Wow really dude? SSH is a 50/50 hybrid (Skunk x Haze) x (NL5 x Haze) and Blueberry is a hybrid as well leaning more to the indica side. Which would make Blue Dream a hybrid and not even a sativa dominant hybrid it finishes in 9 weeks for fuck sake.