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why? Jacks and calcium nitrate

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
you should love chunky perlite amended with worm crap, vermiculite, and DE.

that's almost pure perlite in the 1/2 gallon above. i did put a very light topping on it that has since washed down into the medium.

my early experiments with perlite did not produce the results i wanted so i dropped it and went to turface, as you know.

the mechanical properties of the medium are more important than the composition of the substance itself.

most of our choices of hydro-type media are relatively inert.

i have found that a capillary rise of 6-8" and an air-filled porosity (AFP) between 30-40% to be ideal in the ppk device.

you can remove fines or too large particles by rinsing, sieving, or floating, depending on the material.

once you get your afp adjusted the only other consideration is cec. coco is around 70 meq/l and turface, other clays and pumice are around 30-40%.

perlite has none but the above amendments give it a substantial CEC thus turning it into a viable soiless media.

the decision after this is how much work and money you want to put into your medium.

prepping turface is a lot of work. it has an AFP of about 22% out of the bag but it can be brought up to about 35% by sieving over a regular aluminum window screen. you will lose about 30% as fines but it is infinitely re-usable. turface is bug-free as it and perlite have been processed in high temp kilns.

pumice is very cheap if you are on the west coast but filthy and will need to be sieved.

coco has too much CEC and needs the soak routine in most cases. it WILL come with fungus gnat eggs.

the chunky perlite just needs a light rinse. that's it. you could take a 3.5 or 4 cu ft bag and open the top and stab the bottom with a screwdriver, put the hose to it for a few minutes and it's done.

also, there is the weight issue with turface. bulk density of 35 lb per cu ft and it holds it's own weight in water.

that made my 7 gal containers 70 lbs each.

i really didn't mean to write all this here but it seems like it's linked to the jack's discussion because of performance differences in our choices and composition of media.

editing to show the pool with nothing but perlite. approx 13.5 sq ft of surface area about 5" deep.

then a 12 lb bag of homedepot worm poo worked in wet right out of the bag. formed a layer about 3/8" deep worked it in with a wand and pump.

about 2.5". then the same volume of vermiculite with about 10% of that volume DE. spread evenly on top and worked in slightly at transplant.

if you are not getting the results you want from jack's it is because of something else.

d9

editing again to say that if you blow up the first pic you can get an idea of the consistency and particle size distribution.

that's it, i swear to Buddha!












de
 

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Sobergrower

Active member
@delta9nxs my condolences to you and your family.

Thank you for continuing to drop your experience and wisdom freely. I joined this forum because of the work you and the other supporters did in the early days of the PPK threads!

It appears that you have abandoned turface for the blend above. I always had issues with the dust from perlite even after rinsing it. My tailpipe would clog up and slow the drain. I am on my third grow with the PPK style and love it.

One of the hardest things for me was putting the PH pen down when using Jacks. As you have said it is a very stable system (until I get bored and think I have to be more involved with the grow).

I am using a different brand of calnit which has the same listing as the Yara but was easier to source. I see here that you have added fluvic and kelp into your grows. I assume that these are added to the bulk reservoir. Do you have any issues with it clogging the feed line to the float valve? I am only adding Great White and do this on a weekly basis as a top feed as add back. Thoughts?
 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
hey sobergrower, no issues whatsoever. the maxicrop kelp is fine powder and goes right into solution.

mr fulvic is a liquid. it doesn't settle out either.

the best way to clean perlite is to float it in a pool. stir it around with a paddle and the fines drop to the bottom. i use a swimming pool net to remove the good stuff off the top.
 

Sobergrower

Active member
In my current grow I was adding back to the bulk reservoir at full strength (850ppm) during the first half of flower. For the last two weeks I dropped back to the 650 ppm. My sub irrigation is holding right around 1350 (which is actually around 1230 on top of my base of 120 from the tap). I did check PH this week with a freshly calibrated meter and it was still locked in at 6.2!
 

Sobergrower

Active member
I figure pictures are worth adding to this thread. These are four Bruce banner clones grown in PPK modules using jacks. They are coming up on 8 weeks since flipping to flower. And I am a rookie!
 

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Sobergrower

Active member
So my current grow is at the end of week 8. Based on the pictures above and what I see today I believe I am still a few weeks out. I have two questions.

Do you run the calnit all the way to the end or reduce/remove it from your mix toward the end to reduce nitrogen?

With the additives @delta9nxs spoke too, is it too late or even worth it to add them at this point?

SB
 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
it won't hurt to throw some fulvic and kelp in there the last few weeks. it could improve the taste and smell.

on my personal grow i'm at the end of week 6 so i just dumped the experimental 4-2-.5 mix and refilled both the recirculating part and the volume tank at the 2.7-1.8-.9 dose. which is 90% of the 3-2-1

i think i'm running a 9 weeker here so i'll probably run just tap water the last week to week and a half, depending on when the volume tank runs out.

i grew bruce banner in oregon. nice plant.
 

Sobergrower

Active member
it won't hurt to throw some fulvic and kelp in there the last few weeks. it could improve the taste and smell.

on my personal grow i'm at the end of week 6 so i just dumped the experimental 4-2-.5 mix and refilled both the recirculating part and the volume tank at the 2.7-1.8-.9 dose. which is 90% of the 3-2-1

i think i'm running a 9 weeker here so i'll probably run just tap water the last week to week and a half, depending on when the volume tank runs out.

i grew bruce banner in oregon. nice plant.
Thanks D9! The wife placed the Amazon order and I think l put the wrong kind of kelp in the cart. I think I need the fine powder instead. Fortunately I do have some liquid kelp.

I sub irrigation was a bit over 1500 so I mixed up 8 gallons with a ppm of 650 (actual 530 +120 well), added the fluvic and liquid kelp. Pulled 8 gallons from the sub irrigation, and gave them all a good top feed watering to flood each module. Sub irrigation is back at 800 ppm.

Thank you for continuing to share freely!

SG
 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
i'm using the maxicrop soluble kelp powder from home depot. cheap and locally available. i'm also using their worm castings and diatomaceous earth. i'm ordering the mr fulvic and the growit #2 coarse perlite from amazon.

this media combination used in conjunction with jack's in the ppk hydro system is about the most cost effective way of producing medical grade cannabis that i know of.

i forgot to mention that i use 85% phosphoric acid as ph down and i get a gallon at a time here:

https://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=phosphoric it last years.

this entire site is a goldmine for cannabis growers and extractors, hydro builders, etc.

i buy 100 micron filters for kiefing from them as well.

here's a couple of pics i took yesterday at 6 weeks.

ethos orange kush cake. blow up these pics!
 

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Sobergrower

Active member
You can’t argue with the frost in those buds and sugar leaves!
Back in the day you were not Adjusting the PH. Are you finding that managing the PH is impacting output? If so what are you adjusting to for your add back to the bulk reservoir?
 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
over the years i have dealt with most types of water supplies. the tap water i have now is stable at around 80 ppm but it needs a little ph down.

in eugene, oregon the municipal water supply was clean and stable but just outside town a lot of folks were using well water, which was a nightmare to work with.

it was in the 350-400 ppm range with a lot of calcium and very hard. it resisted ph correction.

so when consulting i would have them install ro filters.

typically, when using ro filters and jack's you don't need to correct ph.

cari peters told me that the 5-12-26 was developed for ro or distilled water.

it would mix at around 5.2 at the working strength in the volume tank using ro water but stabilize at 6-6.2 in the recirculating part.

if your water won't maintain the ph range you want without constant ph adjustment then you need a ro filter.

chasing ph with constant ph up and down is a ticket to disaster.

in the ppk system you steer the solution from the volume tank.

there is no such thing as an ideal ph. 5.8 is in the middle of an acceptable range.

i observe the trends by meter to find the right amount of ph down to get the solution to stabilize around 5.8-6.2 in the recirculating part.

right now that's 13 ml of 85% phosphoric acid per 30 gal load.
 

jackspratt61

Active member
over the years i have dealt with most types of water supplies. the tap water i have now is stable at around 80 ppm but it needs a little ph down.

in eugene, oregon the municipal water supply was clean and stable but just outside town a lot of folks were using well water, which was a nightmare to work with.

it was in the 350-400 ppm range with a lot of calcium and very hard. it resisted ph correction.

so when consulting i would have them install ro filters.

typically, when using ro filters and jack's you don't need to correct ph.

cari peters told me that the 5-12-26 was developed for ro or distilled water.

it would mix at around 5.2 at the working strength in the volume tank using ro water but stabilize at 6-6.2 in the recirculating part.

if your water won't maintain the ph range you want without constant ph adjustment then you need a ro filter.

chasing ph with constant ph up and down is a ticket to disaster.

in the ppk system you steer the solution from the volume tank.

there is no such thing as an ideal ph. 5.8 is in the middle of an acceptable range.

i observe the trends by meter to find the right amount of ph down to get the solution to stabilize around 5.8-6.2 in the recirculating part.

right now that's 13 ml of 85% phosphoric acid per 30 gal load.
Have you tried pekacid?
 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
no, i have not. i the past i have not used bloom-boosting formulas and have still grown monstrously heavy plants.

but i figure using the jack's tweaked for bloom is a cheap way to experiment. i already have it.

i just realized you may be talking about using it for ph down. probably works great but a 49 dollar gal of the 85% last years at my rate of use.
 
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Tomatoesonly

Active member
This was super interesting around page 2 then it went completely off the rails.
You guys were getting real deep into nutrient profiles and then...
 
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