WHY is everything a Kush or an OG or a Haze.

[grayeyes]

Only buy the feminized seed. That way you will pay the seed sellers for life.

Great idea for them.

 

[White Beard]

People don't work with seeds anymore basically. Most breeding now is done with selected clones and the "breeding" consists of making an S1 and selling that or reversing a female and crossing it to another selected clone.

Since the early days of the Dutch scene we've been bottlenecking the gene pool as the massive plane selection grows that created the main skunk, haze etc gene pools were replaced by first companies that took the original stock and f2d it, then breeding of those f2s and selections, then we got female seeds and growers demanded a lack of variety in their strains coupled with a guarantee they'd be female.

Similar shit went on in the US and that's why everything is a kush og or haze - that and skunk are the main breeding pools to use and have been for a long time to their degredation

Personally I'm working with mixed packs from people like ace, mandala and Mr Nice so that I can select my own clones to keep and work with to keep some variety in my seeds. I'd rather pop 10 to keep 1 because then I know I'm getting the best in the pack rather than going for 1 female seed and assuming it's decent right until it herms and produces nothing.

Ganja gu brah

You make excellent points, especially regarding grower demands: I can see why a commercial grower would make the choice to run all-fem from a particular clone line, and I can see why they might incline towards a ‘buzzword’ strain.

My preference is for regular seed, and my plans definitely involve working with males; If Mandala reopens, I plan on placing a sizable order, and there’s stuff at Ace I want, too.

 

[siftedunity]

People don't work with seeds anymore basically. Most breeding now is done with selected clones and the "breeding" consists of making an S1 and selling that or reversing a female and crossing it to another selected clone.

Since the early days of the Dutch scene we've been bottlenecking the gene pool as the massive plane selection grows that created the main skunk, haze etc gene pools were replaced by first companies that took the original stock and f2d it, then breeding of those f2s and selections, then we got female seeds and growers demanded a lack of variety in their strains coupled with a guarantee they'd be female.

Similar shit went on in the US and that's why everything is a kush og or haze - that and skunk are the main breeding pools to use and have been for a long time to their degredation

Personally I'm working with mixed packs from people like ace, mandala and Mr Nice so that I can select my own clones to keep and work with to keep some variety in my seeds. I'd rather pop 10 to keep 1 because then I know I'm getting the best in the pack rather than going for 1 female seed and assuming it's decent right until it herms and produces nothing.

Ganja gu brah

so your working with some of the companies notorious for bottle necking anything.. especially within their own stock. since mr nice are notorious for there being very little variation between some of their lines. their med man aka white rhino is now a ten week sativa, like everything else they sell. for example.

so many myths being spread around online.. fems don't create hermaphrodite ridden offspring.

I think the only people worried about bottle necking are the ones who don't know what is actually going on in the cannabis community in 2019.. theres so much more variation than there was when I was younger. now theres a million flavours and highs to match. that's the reality.

 

[_mr.hendrix__]

theres actually a lot more triangle, white, fire, cookies, chem, sundae, dosi, wedding cake, gelatto than anything else these days.

 

[siftedunity]

half of them only known within the last year..

 

[PDX Dopesmoker]

theres actually a lot more triangle, white, fire, cookies, chem, sundae, dosi, wedding cake, gelatto than anything else these days.

i wonder if there is a way to get 5eedfind3r to dump all the strain names to a text file so we can start parsing it for most common characters strings. That'd be easier than just going by general impressions.
Also lets not neglect the Jack family, its not as popular as it once was, but its an important weed subspecies grouping denotation thingy.

 

[moses wellfleet]

#matrimonialceremonybakedgoods


#tropicalrainforestyoungmalehumans

 

[Tonygreen]

When Dan and I started the gorilla bubble line we bred and selected our own male before we even started. Took 5 years or so to get to the point where the line is reliable to the point I know what im getting in outcrosses.
Could have made a killing if we just crossed all our clones to make random seed but I find it rewarding to make a reliable line and dan did too.
I see what is going on with seed making now but im not going to sell out by one offing everything. Money isnt everything to me. Maybe im just a dumb ass ha. Sticking to my guns tho.

All the gelato si dos cakes are just cookie crosses arent they??

 

[Happy Times]

When Dan and I started the gorilla bubble line we bred and selected our own male before we even started. Took 5 years or so to get to the point where the line is reliable to the point I know what im getting in outcrosses.
Could have made a killing if we just crossed all our clones to make random seed but I find it rewarding to make a reliable line and dan did too.
I see what is going on with seed making now but im not going to sell out by one offing everything. Money isnt everything to me. Maybe im just a dumb ass ha. Sticking to my guns tho.

All the gelato si dos cakes are just cookie crosses arent they??

Awesome philosophy Tony, stick to them guns!

 

[therevverend]

Well, Kush means the strain is a wide leaf Indica. Usually from Pakistan or Afghanistan. Almost all strains have some of these genetics because they tend to finish quickly, produce lots of resin and tight nugs.

Any tropical narrow leaf drug hybrid can be called a Haze. This covers SE Asian, Indian, Hawaiian, and Columbian. You cross two or more of these types and you have a Haze.

OGs are hybrids of a narrow leaf strain by a wide leaf strain, you cross a Kush by a Haze you can call it an OG. Maybe these monikers weren't what the original breeders meant when they called their strain OG or Haze but it's what they've become. All cannabis is either a wide leaf Afghan type, a narrow leaf tropical type, or a hybrid of the two.

Complaining about this and saying breeders are lazy seems silly to me. You don't want to smoke a Haze or a Kush or a hybrid of the two? You can try hemp....

 

[bigbadbiddy]

so your working with some of the companies notorious for bottle necking anything.. especially within their own stock. since mr nice are notorious for there being very little variation between some of their lines. their med man aka white rhino is now a ten week sativa, like everything else they sell. for example.

???
Now THAT I can't confirm.
The reason MRN gives you AT LEAST 15 beans in a pack is precisely because they are NOT as bottlenecked as others and they made it a point to keep it that way.


Also cannot confirm that there is very little variation neither between strains nor within a pack or strain!


i have grown a bunch of their strains and have most in my library.


MasterKushxSkunk was a great example of huge variety within a strain. Only flowered 2 phenos (popped 5 and 3 males) but they were polar opposites. One very sativa leaning with foxtails etc. etc. and a delicious sweet/minty terpene profile and the other was very indica leaning with compact dense buds (reminded me of the Critical Mass I later grew) and a polar opposite terpene profile: stank of camphor like hell, nothing like bud, would be perfect for outdoor stealth grows where odor is a concern.


The other strains I grew, be it MedMan or BlackWidow or Mango Haze or NL5xSkunk or what have you were VERY distinguishable from other strains they offered.


The NL5xSkunk (again, 2 females flowered, rest were runts or males) were both quite uniform and both had a calyx structure etc. with what you would expect from a NL and Skunk cross but they both had sour/citrusy/grapefruity terpene profiles that I did not find in the other strains I grew from them so far.


The Critical Mass had very similar calyx structure/growth profile to the indica leaning MKS and NL5xSkunks but that doesn't surprise me as it likely comes from the Skunk and Afghani influence.


If you go to the strains without Afghani or Skunk in the cross, you immediately notice the differences in both structure and shape as well as terpene profiles.


The differences in effect were also always on par with what you would expect. More heavy hitting Indica couchlock stones with strains like the NL5xSkunk and Ortega (or the indica leaning MKS pheno) and more sativa, mind stimulating "up" effect with strains like Mango Haze (or the sativa leaning MKS pheno) etc. with strains like MedMan and BlackWidow giving you that "hybrid high" that leans ever so slightly (or heavily, depending on pheno) to the indica/couchlock side.




Like I said, I cannot agree with that statement whatsoever and I have grown my fair share of MRN beans...

 

[JockBudman]

so your working with some of the companies notorious for bottle necking anything.. especially within their own stock. since mr nice are notorious for there being very little variation between some of their lines. their med man aka white rhino is now a ten week sativa, like everything else they sell. for example.

Considering a lot of their lines come from the original haze, skunk, Afghan lines etc that Neville used I wouldn't expect their strains to be hugely different.

What I probably didn't make clear is that I'm actually using their walkabout mix pack for selection. I wanted something with a mix of stability and landrace genes couples with long flowering sativa traits. They'll be paired with ace tropical mix IF they're good enough to use in a cross.
I haven't done the grow yet for that run so obviously I've only gone on what descriptions say, grow reports etc. Admittedly they've been somewhat mixed with some people finding packs with basically the same strain and no variety, but then considering the seeds are a mix of test crosses etc I would expect you'd hit on the odd pack that all came from one plant. Luck of the draw really.

And if they are good plants then they'll be getting crossed with other long flowering sativas from aces tropical mix so I'll have a wide variety of crosses and a wider variety of phenotypes to pull from when selecting mothers.

so many myths being spread around online.. fems don't create hermaphrodite ridden offspring.

I've encountered herms from the get go, loads over the last 10 or so sporadic years of growing. Never found them in reg seeds, only ever fems.

Is it breeder error? Sloppy or no stabilisation? Genetics? I don't know and don't care - regs haven't hermed on me so I'll stick to that.

I think the only people worried about bottle necking are the ones who don't know what is actually going on in the cannabis community in 2019.. theres so much more variation than there was when I was younger. now theres a million flavours and highs to match. that's the reality.

There are more flavours that's for sure. Not sure about variety of highs unless you think variety is nailed to the sofa compared to nailed to bed - personally I find most modern strains to be very similar in high. The most variety of effect I've found is in stuff I've grown from landrace based strains that aren't part of the standard gene pool.
Different tokes for different folks obviously - I don't doubt you've found some real fire that gives you a spectrum of effects.

As for bottlenecking the genepool, you only need to go to S33df1Nd3r and check the lineages of many of the plants that have appeared in the last ten years to see just how inbred they are. The most recent herm I had was from a strain with a lineage so long it's shocking, I just kept scrolling and scrolling on my phone.
I can also name a fair few of the choke points - Massachusetts super skunk is one of them that appears in many many American strains, followed by OG. Obviously some of these have different monikers attached but as phylos galaxy is proving, a hell of a lot of them are the same cut.

Surely, if strains are being created, back crossed and cross bred all sharing the same clone ancestor or cluster of clone ancestors, they're going to become inbred. You only need to look at European royalty to see how that works.

Mind you, if I turn out to be wrong about Mr Nice I'll post about it here if I remember. I'm hoping I'm not though.

Ultimately, as a percy grower and hobby breeder I'm trying to work within my limitations of space, time, illegality etc etc. Ideally I'd be doing 1000 plant runs with landrace genes collected at source (and I do want to get some RSC stuff soon) but all I can do is work with what I think will present the best variety and genetic strength.

Ganja gu brah

 

[White Beard]

I am fresh out of votes and rep, y’all, but thanks to ALL for the crosstalk! I appreciate the many sides and opinions.

 

[willydread]

One thing I learned at the end of the 90s in Switzerland is that a lot of weed has a trade name that does not always correspond to true genetics, an example: most of the skunk / superskunk / White widow sold at the time were simply Afghan / skunk hybrids ...
It's the same thing happens today, the aromas have changed,in place of the earthy aromas of hashish, yeast and musk, now the flavors of fuel, fruit and citrus are in vogue ...

 

[bigbadbiddy]

@Jockbud


The last report on a Walkabout pack I can remember was about 2 years ago by a member on their board called blowingupjake.


He found an, according to him, dead on blueberry muffin smelling pheno in his pack of walkabout. Keeper.


Overall I got the impression that you can really find some outliers in walkabout that can go in any direction.


Pretty sure MRN never did any colab or genetic exchange with anyone/anything blueberry. So my assumption was always that they either have, as you said, test varieties in those packs as well, or that the blueberry terpene profile can be found in skunk or afghani or other strains they are using in their breeding and it just surfaced in that walkabout seed that was a cross of whatever...

 

[EvergreenState]

Wait. What was the question?

 

[hazefreak]

Cheese... haze and kush seem to be what people believe are types

Now we got dawgs, cookies, and fook knows what else