Why do breeders sell f2's?

[Lyfespan]

anyone using the new ABC bastard to breed with are introducing F1s correct?

 

[Lyfespan]

landrace indica to landrace sativa something like

pckXmalawi is that F1

 

[troutman]

And who is to say heirlooms or land races haven't been hybridized at some point?

If you breed plants from different parts of the World the chances are less that they are related.

Meanwhile, if you use only Dutch seed bank strains to breed with they can be quite related.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

The mistake most people make is to presume that the rest of the seed-buying public want exactly the same thing as they do. This is often not the case.
Some people want F1s for stability and uniformity (and i agree there are few 'proper' F1s out there that are made using stable lines)
Some people want F2s for the increased range of phenos and trait combinations, they want a choice to pick a keeper from, or they want to pick their favorites and make new seeds steering the line in the direction they prefer.


F1s may be uniform but not display the particular traits you were hoping for from a cross. In this case the F2s may be where the pheno's you are looking for can be found.
There is an oldschool saying 'the gold is in the F2s' and this is sometimes the case.


VG

I really can't add much to what VG said other than to point out that variability is the source of improvement over generations. The best way to get reduced variability is to clone. Second best is to feminize or self pollinate. F1's don't always have reduced variability. Whether they do or not depends on the individual plants used in the cross, NOT on whether they're 'land races' or IBL's or anything like that. I can take an F1 and cross it to something else to make a 'double hybrid and still have low variation IF I choose the right plants. Choose different plants and variability will be all over the place. The only reliable way to find out is....progeny test.

TL;DR F2's are awesome because variability is the path towards improvement. If the two parent lines are unrelated enough, there can be literally thousands of different phenotypes. Imagine how fun those test sessions could be!

 

[VerdantGreen]

Thanks Mr.G.!
strange you should chime in as i was going to attribute the 'gold in the F2s' saying to you - but wasn't 100% sure. It has certainly come up in our conversations

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Thanks Mr.G.!
strange you should chime in as i was going to attribute the 'gold in the F2s' saying to you - but wasn't 100% sure. It has certainly come up in our conversations

Very cool, I hope I did say that, thanks again VG!

 

[JimmyToucan]

And who is to say heirlooms or land races haven't been hybridized at some point?

Many were at some point, but if they've reached heirloom or landrace status they've been bred for many many years since the fact. After so many generations it can be considered it's own unique cultivar and no longer a hybrid.

 

[rolandomota]

That oni guy has got some purple orange fire. Sometimes the f1 can't be reproduced if a male female or both are not cloned and why be so concerned over nothing? Just buy them and make your own f whatever seeds

 

[xxPeacePipexx]

Often that F2 is the only way of keeping the initial cross due to an ongoing process of letting go of the Parental stock. I don't think most of today's breeders are keeping every male and female due to utilizing a lot more lines then traditional breeders would work, let alone keep due to many factors - Unlike when the breeder strived to keep parental stock. So perhaps you can call it a "preservation" act. If not for the filial breeding that many did with say C99 we would all be stuck with whatever is being sold as such with the revival of Brothers Grim.

I often find what I want in most of the crosses that I have made, and all to often I find myself thinking about the F2 and how it serves me in more ways than one.. Especially when I can't duplicate the initial cross or simply want to shelf something for a rainy day or another breeder, or desire to really push for the ibl beginnings.

 

[Ronni]

sometimes there was a small batch of a sucessful f1 and some breeder knock off the fame

 

[Tonygreen]

That's why I breed one line, working on my own homozygous line for supreme f1s.
I'm only halfway there after five plus years but all of my GB outcrosses are spectacular.

You make more money crossing everything these days if yer a seed maker ha. I call it sticking to my plan and beliefs others may call me stupid lol.
Forget the riches in search of something better.

 

[troutman]

Maybe some breeders sell f2's because they are really hacks who are buying F1's and go from there.

Meanwhile, real breeders have pure lines to play with.