Why 400w hps bulbs bend ?

[Hammerhead]

No no, there isn't 400w 400v, you got lil mixed up... The lumatek pro 400v ballast automatically knows which bulb u connect to it, it can run both 230v and 400v bulbs in it.
It's not only for 400v bulbs.

Their ballast is 400/440/600/660w - 230/400v ballast, it can run all 400w bulbs and 600w bulbs, 400w bulbs don't come in 400v voltage rating, so your supposed to run normal 230v 400w bulbs instead as the ballast is also 230v if you connect this kind of bulb to it.
Anyhow, I've also used the bulbs in normal 230v digi ballast not 400v, still happens.


That's the thing, they work, but do they ? Maybe their spectrum is fucked or intensity is shut, they work for our eyes to see but I don't know if they run optimal in those conditions, seems whacked to me.
I changed them to the 600 yestarday and I already can see a change, but again it's marginal so can't say if it's the power of the 600 or progress of flowering or something else.

Just a normal air hood, I call them cool tubes but they are not tubes, just closed air hoods.
also not closed air hoods (the super cheap ones) are mostly in my veg tents

That info is direct from their website. I just cut and pasted that info. Your plants will tell ya if there growing healthy. That's all that matters. Enclosed hoods will prevent catastrophic bulb failures from causing a fire or other issues from the hot glass.

The Lumatek Ultimate Pro 600W has been specifically designed to help the hobby grower access the benefits of using electronics to control and power both 240V MH/HPS and professional 400V HPS horticultural lamps. The 600/1000 Ultimate Pro can run either V bulb.. The 400 watt ballast specs doesnt say works with 400v bulbs. This doesn't have anything to do with the fake 240v Phillips bulbs. Try a Lumatek 400w bulb. I know Phillips HID stuff is getting harder to find. I'm not sure they make Horticulture HID bulbs anymore.

 

[Ca++]

I just noticed the unused lamp pic, isn't an unused philips. A new Philips displays some dark areas at the end of the arc tube, but they are distinct bands. The first run looses the bands, and they then look fresh. This lamp just looks used.

I also note the direction of the bending. Either it bent upwards, or the fitting is up-side-down.

Something doesn't quite ring right about the change to 600s yesterday, and reasoning it might seem different. Are the 600s running on the 400 setting, or the 400s on the 600 setting?

 

[snakedope]

I just noticed the unused lamp pic, isn't an unused philips. A new Philips displays some dark areas at the end of the arc tube, but they are distinct bands. The first run looses the bands, and they then look fresh. This lamp just looks used.

It's new, whether is philips or not I don't know.

I also note the direction of the bending. Either it bent upwards, or the fitting is up-side-down.

Something doesn't quite ring right about the change to 600s yesterday, and reasoning it might seem different. Are the 600s running on the 400 setting, or the 400s on the 600 setting?

Huh ?
All my ballasts are 600 dimmable, the 400w ran on the 400w setting, and the new 600 is on the 600w setting
The lumatek pro 600 is 400/600w 230/400v ballast, that's it.
They don't have a 400w 400v ballast,
But their pro 600w ballast is 400w 230v or 600w 230/400v depending on the bulb.
I also ran those bulbs in a dedicated 400w ballast not dimmable, and also they bend.
I don't think the ballast is the problem, not when all other bulbs are good after more then 6 months of use, only the green power 400 does this problem for me

 

[Ca++]

The 'huh' comment was well placed. There was room for a mistake, you can't understand someone making
Your use of multiple ballasts seems exhaustive. You could perhaps try a magnetic, but it seems the result would be no different.

I do see that lamp is not a new philips, but even so, the bending is unexplained. Presuming your light units are orientated correctly, it's bending up away from the arc tube. Defying gravity. It seems like a molecular change. That bar is thicker than the loop at the end, which would handle expansion. I think someone earlier comment about the wrong metal could be saying something. Though it's looking a bit like a university study to explain this one.

I was looking recently, and while the 6s I used to get still come in colour printed sleeves, they have doubled in price. Another supplier sells them at the old price, but in a sleeve like yours came in. I have picked up boxes from proper suppliers many times, and always got a nice printed sleeve that adds value to the product. Maybe it's cost cutting to use a single sleeve for all lamps, and add a sticker. Or maybe, it's openly fake?

 

[snakedope]

The 'huh' comment was well placed. There was room for a mistake, you can't understand someone making

Sorry for misunderstanding then.

Your use of multiple ballasts seems exhaustive. You could perhaps try a magnetic, but it seems the result would be no different.

Yeah I thought about the magnetic but the 400w ones are expansive here, the 600w cost pennies though, and if other lamps would bend too I would def try it, but other lamps show no signs of this BS bend do I don't know if that will solve the problem

I do see that lamp is not a new philips, but even so, the bending is unexplained. Presuming your light units are orientated correctly, it's bending up away from the arc tube. Defying gravity. It seems like a molecular change. That bar is thicker than the loop at the end, which would handle expansion. I think someone earlier comment about the wrong metal could be saying something. Though it's looking a bit like a university study to explain this one.

Yeah after checking all of the 400w I have some bend towards the arc tube, some bend towards the glass, not consistent to one direction.

I was looking recently, and while the 6s I used to get still come in colour printed sleeves, they have doubled in price. Another supplier sells them at the old price, but in a sleeve like yours came in. I have picked up boxes from proper suppliers many times, and always got a nice printed sleeve that adds value to the product. Maybe it's cost cutting to use a single sleeve for all lamps, and add a sticker. Or maybe, it's openly fake?

This vendor philips 600w lamps are working fine at the moment, no bend visible yet or anything.. will keep checking them the following days
For some reason after you mentioned the fakes the whole graphic on the carton sleeve looks doodgy, but I don't remember how an actual philips carton looks (the 400w kind anyway)

 

[Corpselover Fat]

You are much braver than me. I wouldn't run a bulb like that for any length of time.

 

[growshopfrank]

The wonders of digital ballasts over driving a lamp be it bad design or user error due to the switch being set to the wrong wattage.

 

[growshopfrank]

Some bulbs aren't meant for horizontal mounting. They will have a letter on them. Usually a U for universal.

U = universal burn

BD = base down burn

BU = base up burn

HOR = horizontal burn

Useful info for metal halide lamps users but does not apply to HPS as HPS lamps are universal position oriented.

 

[growshopfrank]

But how come all defective ?
And especially the 400w...
Maybe they are getting too hot in the cool tubes for their own good ?
My 3 x 600 start in a couple of hours so we'll see if they deform also
I have another op with a 400 in a open classic hood and the bulb bent aswell, not like the one in the pic, but getting there, so the cool tubes option is not looking like the culprit
I guess they are just defective batch or some, hard to believe but I see no other explanation

The cool tubes should not be a problem as HPS lamps are often used in tight enclosed fixtures and are designed to endure that environment.

 

[snakedope]

The wonders of digital ballasts over driving a lamp be it bad design or user error due to the switch being set to the wrong wattage.

Kinda odd that all the ballasts share bad design when it comes to this bulb don't you think ?
Also we are not idiots for the 5th time, powering a 400w on the 600w setting would probably blow it, not bend it and keep working, just my guess but a logical one
My 400w bulbs are on the 400w settings in the 600w dimmable ballast.
Only the 400w philips greenpower shows this bend, all other bulbs are perfect.

 

[growshopfrank]

Kinda odd that all the ballasts share bad design when it comes to this bulb don't you think ?
Also we are not idiots for the 5th time, powering a 400w on the 600w setting would probably blow it, not bend it and keep working, just my guess but a logical one
My 400w bulbs are on the 400w settings in the 600w dimmable ballast.
Only the 400w philips greenpower shows this bend, all other bulbs are perfect.

What can i say, you asked a question and i gave you my opinion FWIW i have been at this for more than a minute.
Never called or implied that you were an idiot i was just trying to be concise with my answer.

 

[Corpselover Fat]

 

[Ca++]

Useful info for metal halide lamps users but does not apply to HPS as HPS lamps are universal position oriented.

No, he's right. It's mostly son-e that care, but son-t often used to. I think I might struggle to find a major brand son-t that cares now though.

I'm unsure about the getter. The lamp shown has getters the other end. Though they have not labeled them.

This is a fancy version. It's charged. Making the other end look like heat shielding.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Hey I saw someone talk about thisyears ago.....not sure if this is the same situation....but this post may help

Quote.Use the lumatek! I've broken 2 philips bulbs (a son t pia agro & a pia greenpower) running them on a Lumatek digi. The metal bar inside warps with the higher frequency. According to Whazzup from gavita, who used to work for lumatek, many bulbs are not designed to be run on digi's and will fail earlier, or like with mine, actually suffer fractures (worryingly one kept running, just really hot

).. He mentioned the philips bulbs as specifically to be avoided (I read so after my problems). Early on lumatek recommended the osram/sylvania bulbs because they had internals less prone to warping, even though osram said they were not designed for digital use. Now they make their own strengthened ones, as do gavita, and some of the US makes.
The old pia and agro pia have lower PAR/ppfd quotes (in umol/s) than the newer lumatek in the 400w range, fwiw. The newer greenpower's (and specifically the 400v versions) are the industry standard. At 400w & 240v It goes philips son-t pia/agro 660-695 umol/s (depending on variation and brochure), lumatek 713, philips pia cg-t greenpower 725-750 (depending on the brochure).
Regardless I'd use the lumatek just for safety. End quote.

So it might be those 400w bulbs are a old batch from a old design...from before the upgraded versions suitable for all balasts including digi....hope that helps

 

[snakedope]

Although I have only one lumatek ballast, all others are reg chinese digi ballasts, the 400w philips bulbs still bend no matter which ballast I put them in..
I do believe now that the bulbs are to blame, all evidence leads me to think it's either a bad batch or just fakes.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Although I have only one lumatek ballast, all others are reg chinese digi ballasts, the 400w philips bulbs still bend no matter which ballast I put them in..
I do believe now that the bulbs are to blame, all evidence leads me to think it's either a bad batch or just fakes.

What the post seems to be saying is those bulbs were made before digi ballasts were comon... and were made for only the magnetic ballasts that were about then. As you can see others were having the same issues too going back 10 years. The guy working for lumatek and gavita before, who use just those philps bulbs confirms this is a issue with the old issue bulbs...im guessing the 400 maybe sells slower across the world compared to other sizes so probably there is a lot more of the older stock stock still floating around.....to be sure try it with a normal regular old basic magnetic ballast.....and if what they are saying is right..then go back to the shop and ask for newer bulbs from newer batches.....im sure if there is a serial number on the box philps should be able to tell you date of manufacture....an if they were suitable at the time for the frequencies put out by digital ballasts...

 

[Ca++]

I still have the first ever lamps I bought new. Some 400w Agro's when I'm not sure 600w lights even existed. They have been run with various electronic ballasts. I have not seem such damage.

I did wonder if the driver thinks it's a different lamp. The Philips is hard to strike, compared to a Sylvania. Some of the Gavita 600s won't fire them up. I have been offered shopping trolleys full of them, because they would only work with Gavita lamps or Sylvania. I have had magnetics struggle to, when the manufacturer used a weak igniter choice. It's in the lamp specs. Higher strike voltage requirement.

I'm pretty settled on it being a fake lamp. Though the frequency thing is interesting. Early electronics ran slower, and they got faster over the generations. Seeing the 230/400 lamps ran differently was a bit of an eye opener. I can't say I have noticed frequency in lamp specs. A 400v lamp can be magnetic. The use of a higher frequency for the 600 over the 400 seems to be about driving it harder, without having the extra voltage. It kinda draws me back into this area of lighting, but keeping up with old tech seems fruitless.