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Wholesale pot prices plummet. Now there starting to get better

PDX Dopesmoker

PDX Dopesmoker

Active member
musigny23 said:
Unfamiliar? No. I've been working in the CA market since 1978. I've seen everything in that time. And I mean everything.

I understand you say I'm opinionated but I've never seen any indoor that even matched the best outdoor never mind exceeded it in terms of authentic terpene profiles and quality of the effects. Artificial lights and technology allow for certain things but they can't beat nature when it comes the achieving the very highest degree of genetic expression. If you disagree you need to do more exploration and research.

To get on topic and return to pricing. I understand the market is where it is, but it doesn't make sense. Fundamental quality should drive price not "bills". Products with higher production costs aren't automatically awarded higher price. Generally such a product loses the competition and goes away.UNLESS, clever marketing can overcome the disadvantage and keep demand going.

I first saw indoor lbs enter the market about 1987 or so and mainly as a substitute. Prohibition kept supply of outdoor very limited and it was a response. Back then, no one preferred it except the grower. The prohibition created such high prices that it was worth paying the bills to produce. Indoor also made it possible to grow more or less anywhere. Made some sense then, but that was then. For many years, I would pose this question to buyers when discussing the merits, "what's the best thing about indoor?". People would come up with various answers but never the correct one, which was (and remains), "the money it made for the grower."

For the past nearly 20 years, supply has increased and prices dropped significantly and along came the opportunity to produce full season, full sun, totally organic outdoor in CA. And top outdoor growers with great genetics have been doing it. So why pay uncompetitive prices for a product that can't truly express the best genetics to the highest degree, making what it offers merely "skin deep"? There is simply no way, that indoor can offer double the value compared to the best grown and processed outdoor. To think so is disconnected from reality.

I have participated in all levels of the market and retailed to thousands of buyers over the past 40+ years. I can't begin to tell you how many times a buyer would check out the product and ask, "Is this indoor or outdoor". Or how many times a middleman was able to sell some outdoor as indoor because the person wanted it was willing to pay more but couldn't actually tell the difference.
That's a major reason this current market pricing doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

Just to get the thread back on track after the moderator took it into off-topic realm of metadiscussion, I'd like to point out that markets themselves are all disconnected from reality and nonsensical to a certain degree. Many people make their livings taking advantage of that. The legal status of marijauna itself is completely disconnected from reality, so even if the market were exactly sane, it'd still be way off base. Of course this isn't the place to be discussing marijauna descheduling, the WHO, the United Nations Commission on Narcotic Drugs & Harry Anslinger, this is the wholesale market price in California discussion thread, but adding that Cali is 100% bonkers to begin with is clearly relevant when trying to understand the bud to dollar ratio south of the border.
 
flylowgethigh

flylowgethigh

Non-growing Lurker
ICMag Donor
✓
Looks like the smoke reduced yields down to 40-50% of what would be usual outdoors, from reduced energy (?) because of blockage. Number still 18.
 
flylowgethigh

flylowgethigh

Non-growing Lurker
ICMag Donor
✓
Last year the number was 12. WuFlu and stimilis money jacked it up to 18. I imagine smoke/ash damaged flower will bring less.

Index the price of a pack to the price of a pound of sirloin hamburger meat, which has about doubled in the last year or two. Inflation is upon us I am afraid. All that printing and debt, coming home to roost. I tell him I don't care about the number, as long as I am getting the best. Next 3 are already lined up. Remember the potential civil unrest, stock up.
 
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A

asilsweater

Active member
From wat i hear supply is limited this yr,nothings going under 12 for od, if it is swoop it up cuz in a month its gonna be dry again
 
rolandomota

rolandomota

Well-known member
Veteran
Overpriced always and weak weed grow more bulk you wannabe cartels drop those prices the real cartel weed is cheap as fuck andand just as strong or better these crazy prices piss me off no weed is worth this much money and people say I smoke crap well your weed sucks compared to my Mexican " crap" so your smoking and selling what? Normal weed wow
Bulk prices of 75 to 200 an ounce so 150 to 400 an ounce 5 to 20 a gram in the end a gram ain't shit
 
Crooked8

Crooked8

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Mentor
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Veteran
rolandomota said:
Overpriced always and weak weed grow more bulk you wannabe cartels drop those prices the real cartel weed is cheap as fuck andand just as strong or better these crazy prices piss me off no weed is worth this much money and people say I smoke crap well your weed sucks compared to my Mexican " crap" so your smoking and selling what? Normal weed wow
Bulk prices of 75 to 200 an ounce so 150 to 400 an ounce 5 to 20 a gram in the end a gram ain't shit
Click to expand...

So you are saying your cheaper herb is better than the high end. Cool story.
 
M

mcattak

Active member
This is by far the best thread on icmag, seemingly very accurate and shows that California runs the show nationwide.

Would be cool if someone could come up with a real time graph based on the info from this thread.

Appreciate the guys throwing up the data.
 
art.spliff

art.spliff

Active member
ICMag Donor
It's kind of like "wow," without any intention of classifying or debating southern or northern California, musigny23 articulates their experience and knowledge well which I agree with. Lights or filling a bucket with dirt and bringing a streetlamp inside work in the sense many of us have either grown or felt effects from indoor cannabis. So it will get someone by producing flowers and seeds when access to an outdoor garden or adequate sunlight are unavailable. To say that one is necessary or superior in that sense, certainly not indoor. As a substitute or a hobby, for personal use in winter time or colder climates sure. Not really as a large scale production method for sharing resale distribution etc. In one of the warmest climates it makes very little sense more confusing really why anyone would grow inside. Sounds silly but it is like desert weather or unlimited sunshine and they'll specialize in basement grows there with an air conditioner running. In a large suburban sprawl there may truly be a shortage of soil or cultivable area nearby with so much pavement. Only working for the energy and petrochemical companies at that point. There is no other side articulated in the same way advocating cannabis grown under lights inside. What it in fact sounds like, as it may appear on the surface, is that indoor cultivators are asking more money for less quality or less of in terms of quantity, an inferior product. There is no way indoor compares with sun grown most of the time, that is to say it is not usual or common to have fond memories of the best cannabis grown indoors, although you will surely find people with opinions on the subject. I think in the recreational market here in California you will find indoor and outdoor that overlap in terms of quality perhaps light intensity or soil investment etc. Some of each may be lower than 15% thc and then some of each 20 or 30% so once again no reason to say indoor has an advantage. I would not consider myself a social scientist or economist but if there are people (in Humboldt) smoking grams of the finest Emerald Triangle grown bud otherwise known as Cali bud that makes it way all over for $1 per gram or whatever, and people in Los Angeles with bud for $10 or $20 per gram, apples and oranges one population is more into it or more serious about its craft. Speculation it either will not grow (as well) or people are not trying to grow it outside in southern CA but there really is no evidence that I know of. If cannabis will grow just as well (not exactly the same but similar) in Los Angeles as Humboldt provided enough water then the debate is moot more of a political discussion or personal preference. There is no evidence I know of that says indoor grown bud or artificial light spectrum has an advantage compared to sunlight absolutely for quality or yield or anything. In that case it may be simply that a culture or dated thinking from prohibition has convinced people or allowed growing inside with lights to continue. Lights are always compared in terms of 1 kilowatt of power for one square meter is around normal sunlight. So the average parking lot (sized cannabis grow) would consume about a $millions per month in electricity bills when you could take the roof off instead plain and simple no exaggeration.
 
J

JetLife175

Well-known member
Veteran
Fuckin finally

When im speaking of the California market with fellow growers i like to talk about the nuances of the market, not just talk like cash hungry croppers.

Respects to everyone that are defending the fact that there is much more to this thread than numbers and locations.
 
mojave green

mojave green

rockin in the free world
Veteran
art.spliff said:
It's kind of like "wow," without any intention of classifying or debating southern or northern California, musigny23 articulates their experience and knowledge well which I agree with. Lights or filling a bucket with dirt and bringing a streetlamp inside work in the sense many of us have either grown or felt effects from indoor cannabis. So it will get someone by producing flowers and seeds when access to an outdoor garden or adequate sunlight are unavailable. To say that one is necessary or superior in that sense, certainly not indoor. As a substitute or a hobby, for personal use in winter time or colder climates sure. Not really as a large scale production method for sharing resale distribution etc. In one of the warmest climates it makes very little sense more confusing really why anyone would grow inside. Sounds silly but it is like desert weather or unlimited sunshine and they'll specialize in basement grows there with an air conditioner running. In a large suburban sprawl there may truly be a shortage of soil or cultivable area nearby with so much pavement. Only working for the energy and petrochemical companies at that point. There is no other side articulated in the same way advocating cannabis grown under lights inside. What it in fact sounds like, as it may appear on the surface, is that indoor cultivators are asking more money for less quality or less of in terms of quantity, an inferior product. There is no way indoor compares with sun grown most of the time, that is to say it is not usual or common to have fond memories of the best cannabis grown indoors, although you will surely find people with opinions on the subject. I think in the recreational market here in California you will find indoor and outdoor that overlap in terms of quality perhaps light intensity or soil investment etc. Some of each may be lower than 15% thc and then some of each 20 or 30% so once again no reason to say indoor has an advantage. I would not consider myself a social scientist or economist but if there are people (in Humboldt) smoking grams of the finest Emerald Triangle grown bud otherwise known as Cali bud that makes it way all over for $1 per gram or whatever, and people in Los Angeles with bud for $10 or $20 per gram, apples and oranges one population is more into it or more serious about its craft. Speculation it either will not grow (as well) or people are not trying to grow it outside in southern CA but there really is no evidence that I know of. If cannabis will grow just as well (not exactly the same but similar) in Los Angeles as Humboldt provided enough water then the debate is moot more of a political discussion or personal preference. There is no evidence I know of that says indoor grown bud or artificial light spectrum has an advantage compared to sunlight absolutely for quality or yield or anything. In that case it may be simply that a culture or dated thinking from prohibition has convinced people or allowed growing inside with lights to continue. Lights are always compared in terms of 1 kilowatt of power for one square meter is around normal sunlight. So the average parking lot (sized cannabis grow) would consume about a $millions per month in electricity bills when you could take the roof off instead plain and simple no exaggeration.
Click to expand...
People grow indoors because it’s a fuck of a lot more secure! Believe me, if I thought I could put up a greenhouse without attracting the attention of LE, I’d do it! An evaporative cooled greenhouse kicks ass in the Mojave!
 
T

thedudefresco

Active member
where is the connoisseur market? with stories about the strain, the type of region it grows in naturally, names more like kush or thai and less thunder or fuck.

Kinda like wine but not like the hoppiest craft beers. Idk.

Market is still juvenile or nah? I haven't been to a shop in years. Was stoked when I could get some "durban poison" or "lambs breath" but back then there wasnt good packing to tell you why its cool and interesting strain.
 
B

bigtacofarmer

Well-known member
Veteran
thedudefresco said:
where is the connoisseur market? with stories about the strain, the type of region it grows in naturally, names more like kush or thai and less thunder or fuck.

Kinda like wine but not like the hoppiest craft beers. Idk.

Market is still juvenile or nah? I haven't been to a shop in years. Was stoked when I could get some "durban poison" or "lambs breath" but back then there wasnt good packing to tell you why its cool and interesting strain.
Click to expand...


I think to some extent the connoisseur market implodes on itself. Connoisseurs tend to eventually become growers or have good friends that grow. All the pickiest smokers I know rarely buy weed.

Obviously there are some very discerning smokers that do not grow and need to buy their own. But most people who buy a bag of Friday and just want to get high all week til they buy another seems to be most concerned with getting the most bang for the buck.

I think this is why potent strains that leave me lethargic are most popular and soaring clear highs have less market value with most people. I know I am usually going to burn another. And anyone that only buys a bag on payday does not care if the weed has a ceiling less high. The only time they look for a ceiling is when their grower buddy comes over and burns 3 fat joints.
 
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